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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005NYU College of Dentistry to merge with Nursing Program
http://www.nyu.edu/provost/pdf/SOESACReportHealth.pdf A few points of interest: 1) The provost's report claims the NYUCD faculty voted UNANIMOUSLY for the merger. For anyone who has gone to NYUCD, this defies belief. 2) The provost's report states at least twice that the concept of the merger is "counterintuitive", or "unusual" or a "surprise". They obviously expect opposition, and they're getting it. I received this e-mail today: http://www.nysdental.org/news/details.cfm?ID=59 3) The provost's report opens "After a multi-faceted assessment process, driven principally by academic considerations" My comment? Yeah, right. 4) Unstated was whether the synergies of combining the school of medicine with NYUCD and/ or the nursing school were discussed. 5) While the NYUCD faculty allegedly support the merger unanimously, the provost's report only claims majority support at the nursing school. I figure that must have been a fun vote. Hanging chads, anyone? I'd love to know, since the report states repeatedly that the merger is expected to be "revenue-neutral" just what they're thinking. Does anyone think there is a big future for nurse practitioners in the dental office, as this statement maintains? And why don't we loose these folks with obvious vision of the future on the social security mess? Rant over, Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > http://www.nyu.edu/provost/pdf/SOESACReportHealth.pdf > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > obviously expect opposition, and they're getting it. I received this > e-mail today: That is certainly a confusing turn of events. I was involved in trying to resist and figure out what happened when my alma mater, Georgetown, went toes up, and eventually found there was no sense in it at all. T Probably too many Cerec machines purchased at NYU and they need new sources of revenue! Hey is the Dean there affiliated (read takes money from) Paterson Dental? SignatureGregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) www.smilesforalifetime.com Flaps Dental Blog http://flapsblog.blogspot.com/ Liberae sunt nostrae cogitationes > http://www.nyu.edu/provost/pdf/SOESACReportHealth.pdf > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Rant over, > Steve Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: > Probably too many Cerec machines purchased at NYU and they need new sources > of revenue! > > Hey is the Dean there affiliated (read takes money from) Paterson Dental? So--you think there may be an exchange of money somewhere here? Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Don't Know..... but alliances are often financially motivated! SignatureGregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) www.smilesforalifetime.com Flaps Dental Blog http://flapsblog.blogspot.com/ Liberae sunt nostrae cogitationes > Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: > Don't Know..... but alliances are often financially motivated! Sure. The paper, anticipating this feeling, states that the merger will be "financially neutral". Of course, in a zero-sum game, there can still be winners--if there are also losers. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 What precipitated this merger in the first place? Is the dental school losing money? or is the nursing school? or both? Northwestern just tired of dealing with the money loses in the dental school and just closed it. SignatureGregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) www.smilesforalifetime.com Flaps Dental Blog http://flapsblog.blogspot.com/ Liberae sunt nostrae cogitationes > Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: >> Don't Know..... but alliances are often financially motivated! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: > What precipitated this merger in the first place? Well, we can take the provost's word about "synergy", and that economic considerations weren't a factor for the university "as a whole"--then goes on about increased fundraising potential. > Is the dental school losing money? or is the nursing school? or both? I don't know about the nursing school, and I see nothing about the operating budget for the dental college. However, it states specifically that "Moreover, the College of Dentistry has always funded its own capital needs". I wonder if the university is able to say unequivocally that there are no plans to shrink or close the dental school. I probably shouldn't worry--it's not going to hurt me, right?? Steve > Northwestern just tired of dealing with the money loses in the dental school > and just closed it. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Gregory P. Cole, B.S., D.D.S. (Flap) wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Steve All this sounds very familiar. Georgetown kept saying it wasn't about money, as the dental school was the only "school" on campus that was capable of supporting itself. What I can't figure out is how combining an undergraduate and graduate program is going to save or streamline anything. Nursing and dental students don't take any of the same courses. Maybe nursing and medicine would make a little more sense, but even that doesn't seem to have much overlap. T > All this sounds very familiar. Georgetown kept saying it wasn't about money, > as the dental school was the only "school" on campus that was capable of > supporting itself. What I can't figure out is how combining an undergraduate > and graduate program is going to save or streamline anything. Nursing and > dental students don't take any of the same courses. Ah, but that's part of the plan! Did you read the report? It's not electrifying, but as fantasy it's entertaining. Steve Maybe nursing and > medicine would make a little more sense, but even that doesn't seem to have > much overlap. > > T SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > > All this sounds very familiar. Georgetown kept saying it wasn't about money, > > as the dental school was the only "school" on campus that was capable of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve I did read it, but don't really understand...the 30% overlap is a mystery to me. I went to a college that had a big nursing program, and the nurses seemed to take very basic biology courses, along with microbiology, and anatomy and physiology. While the names of these courses are similar to courses I took in dental school, the content was a bit different. Is this not the case at NYU? I also like their reasoning with regard to the fact that dentistry and nursing have concerns about topics associated with general health. This would seem to be a reason to combine the medical and dental programs, where at least the course work is on a more level plane. They may also want to consider merging the dental program with the business and communication programs, as these programs all have some areas of common concern. Well rounded professionals is a definite plus, but combining of schools in this manner seems an odd approach toward this end. T >>>All this sounds very familiar. Georgetown kept saying it wasn't about > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > courses I took in dental school, the content was a bit different. Is this > not the case at NYU? I'm not familiar with the curriculum of nursing schools. We did share some basic science courses with biology grad students. One went on to become a gastroenterologist; his older brother is a fine oral surgeon who I refer to regularly. > I also like their reasoning with regard to the fact that dentistry and > nursing have concerns about topics associated with general health. This [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > rounded professionals is a definite plus, but combining of schools in this > manner seems an odd approach toward this end. Kinda begs the question, doesn't it? What are they thinking? And why would they put out this absurd statement thinking anyone would believe it? Steve > T SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Kinda begs the question, doesn't it? What are they thinking? And why > would they put out this absurd statement thinking anyone would believe it? > > Steve When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full of mysterious reasoning like what is in the info from NYU. The reason that made the most sense, was that a large pharmaceutical company wanted a large amount of space on campus to develop a University affiliated research center. There were rumors of huge, too big to turn down $$$ amounts this firm was willing to donate to get this space. When the dental school did close, the space was later occupied in this very manner...but only for a few years, at which time the pharmaceutical giant went bankrupt. Gee...I felt bad about that! T > When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of > all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > years, at which time the pharmaceutical giant went bankrupt. Gee...I felt > bad about that! Wow, that is an amazing story about Georgetown. Hard to believe the regents could be such bozos. When was it? What happened to the faculty? >> When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >> all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Wow, that is an amazing story about Georgetown. Hard to believe the >regents could be such bozos. When was it? What happened to the faculty? Dentistry is a hugely expensive type of education, compared to putting twenty MBAs into a room and letting them loose in the library! Joel >>>When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >>>all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Dentistry is a hugely expensive type of education, compared to putting > twenty MBAs into a room and letting them loose in the library! I'm sure your comment is true, but I haven't detected its relevance. >>>> When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a >>>> list of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > I'm sure your comment is true, but I haven't detected its relevance. Well, as far as NYU goes, the university has a history of closing divisions that aren't profitable. However, as was stated in the provost's report, NYUCD always had an operating surplus. Steve I think they merged so the dental students would have a chance at finding females to go to their parties. carabelli > I think they merged so the dental students would have a chance at finding > females to go to their parties. > > carabelli Maybe you haven't been back to school lately--there are almost as many females as male dental students these days. Steve >> I think they merged so the dental students would have a chance at finding >> females to go to their parties. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve I know, I know - I just couldn't resist though. OTOH, supposedly UMKC School of Dentistry turned down the big bucks offered (OEC) to their ortho program. I'll be going to an in-town CE lecture on Friday and will get the latest scuttle on that. carabelli They must have caught a lot of flack from gp's as well as the wire benders. It was the right choice though. It would have been the beginning of the end for individual private practice. I just can't see 'Lensmaster' or 'Wal-Mart' dentistry as being a good thing. Fawks > OTOH, supposedly UMKC School of Dentistry turned down the big bucks offered > (OEC) to their ortho program. I'll be going to an in-town CE lecture on > Friday and will get the latest scuttle on that. > > carabelli >I just can't see 'Lensmaster' or 'Wal-Mart' dentistry as being >a good thing. > >Fawks I cannot even see it working. Dentists are rugged individuals. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >I think they merged so the dental students would have a chance at finding >females to go to their parties. > >carabelli So the dental students could fill the nursing students' cavities ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>>When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >>>>all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >I'm sure your comment is true, but I haven't detected its relevance. Its this: >>>When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >>>all the reasons they gave to justify their move. >>>>>When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >>>>>all the reasons they gave to justify their move. It was a lengthy list, full [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>>When my school was rumored, and eventually did close, we compiled a list of >>>>all the reasons they gave to justify their move. Tony Bad wrote: > Georgetown kept saying it wasn't about money, > as the dental school was the only "school" on campus that was capable of > supporting itself. > Wow, that is an amazing story about Georgetown. Hard to believe the > regents could be such bozos. When was it? What happened to the faculty? The dental school closed in 1990. As I said, many theories about the "why" circulated, and those who cared picked the one that sounded best, but I have no idea of the real truth. As for the regents, there were many ways it was sold to them. There were rumors about the University wanting to re-invent itself as an Oxford on the Potomac, and divesting itself of "trade schools" like medicine and dentistry. To this end, they wanted to sell the medical center. Prospective buyers liked the idea of a teaching hospital, but didn't want or know what to do with a dental program, so our head rolled. The faculty were gradually let go as the class size decreased. When they announced the closing, they let those enrolled finish...so they needed faculty till the end, just less of them each year. I don't know how or if they were compensated for their contracts being terminated, but know they were none to happy...as many were also alumni. It was a good school, had a very busy clinic, and no shortage of patients, which is sometimes an issue. T > I'm not familiar with the curriculum of nursing schools. They teach you how to nurse. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Just about 30 minutes ago, received the following e-mail from the NYSDS: NYU cancels merger plan with school of nursing New York University College of Dentistry has decided NOT to merge with the nursing school. The NYSDA meeting previously scheduled for Wednesday, January 19 for students and alumni at the Hyatt in New York City has been cancelled. NYSDA is grateful that the college and Dean Alfano have listened to our concerns. We look forward to working with the College of Dentistry as it pursues its long range educational initiatives. I'd have loved to have been the fly on the wall. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Just about 30 minutes ago, received the following e-mail from the > NYSDS: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Steve Well, another e-mail from NYSDA--appears the announcement that the merger of the dental and nursing schools is off may have been premature: The meeting previously scheduled for Wednesday, January 19 at 6:00 p.m. at the New York Grand Hyatt Hotel has been cancelled. Officials at the New York University College of Dentistry have indicated that they will listen closely to NYSDA's concerns about the proposed merger with the university's school of nursing. Dialogue with NYU has been very productive, and we are optimistic that a mutually agreeable resolution will be reached. NYSDA is grateful that the college and Dean Alfano have listened to our concerns. We look forward to working with the College of Dentistry as it pursues its long range educational initiatives. Contact NYSDA Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 |
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