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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005CUREOZONE
I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in indorsing this technique he is giving a CE course in Ontario California either this or next month. A buddy of mine signed me up so I am going to go. Its $250 per person. I suppose you can check his website for details. It is 2005 so that is the expected date for CureOzone to clear FDA. Watch the KaVo stock since they are the exclusive North American distributor. For the newbies, CureOzone uses 20 second Ozone gas bursts per tooth to reverse tooth decay. Especially useful for pit and fissures and most importantly root caries. It's been used in the UK for about 5 years now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. >I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a > lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not > be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. Alex, I really want to hear what you think about this TX after this lecture. I am still having a more than a *little* trouble understanding how O3 interacts with hydroxyapatite. To be blunt, I cannot remotely imagine any scenario where this would have any effect. Think, brother, think. WB has probably shorted KaVo already. Wish I had. carabelli > Alex, I really want to hear what you think about this TX after this lecture. > I am still having a more than a *little* trouble understanding how O3 > interacts with hydroxyapatite. Do you really think fluoride _works_ that way? > To be blunt, I cannot remotely imagine any scenario where this would have > any effect. Think, brother, think. Well, I bet they will be able to prove it´s effective. It´s all a matter of composition of the "study" groups! It was done that way with fluoride, so it can still be done with other stuff. Peter  Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- >>I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a >>lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > carabelli Me three. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 If it's a good idea to short KaVo stock, wouldn't it be better to wait for an upsurge in price once the FDA approval is granted and the news is broadcast to a world of non-dentist investors? That would presumably make the stock price go up. Then, when the price is up, is the time to short the stock -- assuming that the stock will come crashing down when the expected sales don't materialize. - dentaldoc > >>I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a > >>lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Brooklyn, NY > 718-258-5001 > If it's a good idea to short KaVo stock, wouldn't it be better to wait > for an upsurge in price once the FDA approval is granted and the news > is broadcast to a world of non-dentist investors? That would presumably > make the stock price go up. Do you really expect FDA approval? Steve > Then, when the price is up, is the time to short the stock -- assuming > that the stock will come crashing down when the expected sales don't [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >>Brooklyn, NY >>718-258-5001 > > If it's a good idea to short KaVo stock, wouldn't it be better to wait > > for an upsurge in price once the FDA approval is granted and the news [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Steve Why not? It's approved here in Kaaannnaada and elsewhere in the world... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet It cost them a lots to get approval here.i remeber This toy was prized on Dental Exhibition in "jury" were people connected with KAVO so The reasult was sure :)))) >> > If it's a good idea to short KaVo stock, wouldn't it be better to wait >> > for an upsurge in price once the FDA approval is granted and the news [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Why not? It's approved here in Kaaannnaada and elsewhere in the world... > SP > It cost them a lots to get approval here.i remeber This toy was prized on > Dental Exhibition in "jury" were people connected with KAVO so The reasult > was sure :)))) That is not surprising, considering the history of the HealOzone. Why do you think they changed the name before introducing it into the US market? Heal--> Cure... Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet I think the machine is healozone the company that make it is curozone the distributor is KaVo. > > It cost them a lots to get approval here.i remeber This toy was prized on > > Dental Exhibition in "jury" were people connected with KAVO so The reasult [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers > SP > I think the machine is healozone > the company that make it is curozone > the distributor is KaVo. OK, got it... I went round and round with DrS and W_B on the HealOzone, basically on the point that the machine has not been independantly validated. If you're interested in it, why not take out a long term lease? That way if it doesn't work out, you can walk away from it. Remember.... <RB> may be a great biomaterials dude, but he can be wrong. When I saw his lecture in Toronto in October, he spent well-neigh an hour on it... And, if your FDA is anything like Health and Welfare Canada, their stamp of approval does not mean the thing works, only that it does no harm. If you're rich, go for it.... I am FAR from that, and cannot afford to make any more major mistakes, like I did with the second hand Biolase M1. That said, I think the OMFS should look into it (Osteomyelitis) and so should the Endos. Thanks SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet I'm not going to spend $15K on an ozone generator. I know what you mean about the laser. One wrong setting in a busy office and you have trouble. On dental town there was a case posted where 3 teeth were lost during a supposidly harmless procedure because the power setting was wrong. Frankly I can not understand why add a laser, airabrasion to do the job of an existing and far more efficient instrument such as the drill. Hey Stove Pipe I used to live in Toronto. > > I think the machine is healozone > > the company that make it is curozone [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks > SP > I'm not going to spend $15K on an ozone generator. > I know what you mean about the laser. One wrong setting in a busy [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Hey Stove Pipe > I used to live in Toronto. Roy mentioned that when I saw him and Carol Ann and Molly in October. I stayed with them for one night when I went to the <RB> course. It doesn't stop in Montreal or Quebec. So it was either T.O., Buffalo NY, or Ottawa. Re the laser: I never had any injuries or even any incident that came close... The thing about the water-and-light machines like the Biolase Millenniumm/WaterLase and a few of the others, is that if you always keep the water on, you can never go wrong. You won't even cauterize. It is curious that the Perios haven't caught this yet. I don't follow DT online, but if that article gets into the magazine, I'll see it, as I skim that when I get it. (Howie sends DT magazine to ALL CDN dentists). What happened to me was that I thought I could beat the system by buying a used M1. Had I checked with Biolase, they would have told me that the M1 was the first Biolase and it was being phased out, along with the SUPPORT. I essentially own an orphan, albeit a very expensive one. That is the lesson: if you buy high tech, insist on the manufacturer's own warranty program, or walk away. The other lesson is: I should have made sure I had a patient base that could PAY for it. If I can't increase my fees to cover the unit, I can't have it. Nobody told me this... Thanks for the info. Re: WaterLase: the best way to know what it can do and whether or not it is for you is to go sit in someone's operatory for a couple of hours and watch what s/he does with it. You could also go to one of the presentations that happen regularly in a hotel conference room near you. You can find out when by going to the Biolase.com site. At the very least, you'll get coffee and donuts.... Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet I've been to the demo on the waterlase laser at the hotel a rep even came to my office tried to get me to buy it also offered me to go and give testimonials on the laser which I would get paid for to help offset the monthly cost. The other lesson is never listen to those ROI calculations you have to do your own research. The laser and power settings. I do not know which laser was used it sounded like the waterlase but I could be wrong. The dentist was trying to control bleeding prior to impression and the wattage was set too high as a result he burned the bone to death. The necrotic bone started to spread and hense 3 teeth were lost. I do not know if they will post this case because the laser manufactures would not be happy about it but it did raise a lot of eyebrows from people on DT. It was really narly looking the gums were about 3-4mm from the tooth 360 degrees. I'll tell you I am at a stage where I will not buy a laser or other toys to cut tooth or gums if I have current tools that will do that more efficiently and more. For example the laser has limits when it comes to removing old restorations. It may be impressive to patients but it needs to be useful to me to be worth while. I also had the problem with these proprietary companies and high costs of equiptment , If they change something, then you are up the creek. > The laser and power settings. I do not know which laser was used it > sounded like the waterlase but I could be wrong. The dentist was trying [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > toys to cut tooth or gums if I have current tools that will do that > more efficiently and more. I would be willing to bet that the water was turned completely off, if this was a WaterLase. So, he's got the power up around 1.25 watts, the sulcus is still bleeding, so instead of stopping, he goes over and over and over it, until finally he squashes all the blood vessels, not realizing that the bleeding is most likely coming from the bone, at this point. If you put this type of technology into the hands impatient professionals, who don't think at all about what they're doing, this is what you get. Andre Charest told us in no uncertain terms; NEVER turn off the water. If you want to cauterize, do that with something else. Instead of hushing this up, BioLase should by putting this up in neon lights, saying this is what can happen, and THIS is what we recommend so that it does not happen again. But they probably won't, because SALES and company image are the most important things. The Eastern Kaannnaada rep phoned me up last week, asking what I was going to do with the M1: get it fixed, (10,000$US with NO guarantee) trade it up for a WaterLase, sell it on eBay, etc. I told him that I have my kids' picture on it, and my Fugi digital camera sits on it as well... So it's just a few tens of thousand dollars' worth of table top, and not even a big one at that. That said, there are things that the Laser would do well, IMO: On Thursday night, I saw a course given by one of the local Perios. I repeatedly fell asleep in it (nighttime courses are murder) but he showed how to do an occlusally re-positioned flap. The Laser would be just the ticket to de-epithelialize the papillae, ready to receive the flap. This is the case ONLY with the WaterLase or the equivalent water spitting Lasers from the other companies. A soft tissue Laser would NOT do it, as it would burn closed the blood vessels. Same thing with free gingival grafts: you could sculpt the shape of the receiving site easily, de-epithelialize it, and trace the outline on the palate easily with it. Then, of course, you have to worry about how to sterilize the hand piece without screwing up the mirror... Thanks SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet What is brocken on your laser? > > The laser and power settings. I do not know which laser was used it > > sounded like the waterlase but I could be wrong. The dentist was trying [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Thanks > SP >What is brocken on your laser? Brocken lasers are like brocken teeth ....... Joel >> > The laser and power settings. I do not know which laser was used it >> > sounded like the waterlase but I could be wrong. The dentist was [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> Thanks >> SP >>What is brocken on your laser? > >Brocken lasers are like brocken teeth ....... > >Joel And they are a huge problem ....... Brocken Tooth Hi Kylee, You can trim his other tooth, ie the one long one, maybe halfway between where it has broken off. Then in another wheek ... alt.pets.guinea-pigs - Feb 4 2002, 11:20 am by jmouse - 4 messages - 2 authors How much is that last hour worth? It's a Swedish diet plan. What is a borken system? I know what a brocken tooth is, but borken system is a mystery. Joel misc.consumers.frugal-living - Sep 6 2004, 6:11 pm by Nonymous - 41 messages - 17 authors New NPPL rule? SKIP/NEWSGROUP ... How many parents are going to let their kids play paintball when they keep comming back with purple hicky marks on their faces, or worse a brocken tooth. ... rec.sport.paintball - Apr 5 1995, 11:46 am by Rusty Rae - 36 messages - 27 authors CUREOZONE What is brocken on your laser? Brocken lasers are like brocken teeth ..... ... It was really narly looking the gums were about 3-4mm from the tooth 360 degrees. ... sci.med.dentistry - Jan 15, 8:35 pm by Joel M. Eichen - 53 messages - 19 authors more conflicting info on amalgum? ... only exception I would make would be my standard "complete tooth replacement" in ... places where there were other "white" fillings that had brocken <-- that was ... sci.med.dentistry - Jul 8 2004, 6:50 am by Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S. - 70 messages - 17 authors Whats the worst physical pain you ever had - What was the ... but once I had a finger joint brocken, when once, standing as a goalie during socker game, the ball bounced off the post and hit my finger ... Wisdom tooth pulled. ... rec.climbing - Sep 21 2001, 6:11 pm by Areg - 31 messages - 24 authors Why can'tI be You? (Cool one too) ... to deaden nerve endings (like the ones used by doctors for tooth extraction) and ... Try to align the communications disk, find the connection is brocken and use ... rec.arts.comics - Mar 2 1992, 7:37 pm by jcas...@ac.dal.ca - 3 messages - 3 authors DREAM TOURNAMENT 3: Multi-Million Dollar Melee ... With one resounding heave, Brocken was exactly that [4]! Then the "wolves" fought on the edge of the ... Teleport Punch, the two ninjas were at it tooth-and-nail! ... rec.games.video.arcade - Apr 3 1995, 10:33 pm by Mark Maestas - 1 message - 1 author ohh... what a night... ... I am, yes, that's true But listen, I'm not 'mong the few Who need Brocken-nights To ... dare And give me of your golden hair A wee little curl And a tooth like a ... alt.jokes.limericks - May 1 2001, 3:11 am by Eva Bekker - 3 messages - 2 authors >>> > The laser and power settings. I do not know which laser was used it >>> > sounded like the waterlase but I could be wrong. The dentist was [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >>> Thanks >>> SP >rec.sport.paintball - Apr 5 1995, 11:46 am by Rusty Rae - 36 messages >- 27 authors [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >alt.jokes.limericks - May 1 2001, 3:11 am by Eva Bekker - 3 messages - >2 authors WTF???? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. | >rec.sport.paintball - Apr 5 1995, 11:46 am by Rusty Rae - 36 messages | >- 27 authors [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] | | I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. Possibly Joel using the newsgroup as his personal clipboard again? SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply >| I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. > >Possibly Joel using the newsgroup as his personal clipboard again? Nope. >WTF???? >.. >Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. >Troy, Michigan, USA You forgot the guy who was here who we had a huge discussion about his brocken tooth. Apparently, its almost an alternative spelling. Joel > What is brocken on your laser? There is no power. I can put it on maximum, 6 Watts, and laze straight at my hand for hours with out any sensation at all. I used the Stat-IM to sterilize the handpiece, and it seems that a film deposit precipitated onto the mirror. (BTW: this is proof that the 'pure distilled water' industry is pure bullshit...). This film caused enough internal reflection back through the partial mirror to damage it and the Er-Cr/YSSG resonance rod. So the thing (which looks and sounds like a big ol' Zamboni) gradually lost power, until I phoned the local Ash-Temple technician, who came in, popped the hood, and pronounced the bad news. I asked him point blank whether or not this M1 Laser was damaged when his company sold it to me at a _special price_, as being the 1998 model, it was already older technology in 2001. Maybe it was just me, but I really think he avoided my gaze and he mumbled some untelligable thing... My own feeling is that they tried to unload them to those suckers like me and this one bounced back. The guy/gal who bought it figured that it wasn't the greatest thing since the 330 carbide bur was invented, and so s/he sent it back, and it landed in my little two-room clinic. The moral: If you DO buy high tech, get a written (and notarized) promisory note from the MANUFACTURER that they will support you with guaranteeable tech support for SIX (6) years past the delivery date (NOT the purchase date). I purchased it in May 2001, and it was not ready for use till August of that year, and the one year guarantee that Ash-Temple (the vendor) gave me started then, as opposed to the moment I handed them the check in May. Then, in March of 2004, I started realizing that the thing was taking forever to cut enamel and even to do soft tissue procedures. I had the Ash-Temple tech in, and he strongly suggested that I get in touch with Biolase REAL QUICK. I found out from the local Biolase rep what that meant: he didn't even MENTION fixing the Millenniumm One. He talked ONLY of upgrading it to a WaterLase for the price of yet ANOTHER mortgage, and I just said _OK, thanks for the info_ and hung up the phone. I phoned Biolase in San Clemente and they told me that there would be no more parts for the M1 manufactured. Any repairs to the M1 would be WITHOUT guarantee. To be fair, they did have their upgrade program, but by this point, I had finally had it driven home into my thick Eastern CDN skull that the technology was not paying for itself. So, six years after this M1 was born, it was dead. Ash-Temple never told me that if I had forked over another 10,000$ CDN at the time of purchase, I would have gotten a new Factory-delivered WaterLase with the BioLase support, guarantee, and at least another five years (IMO) of use before they decide to do the same thing to the WaterLase that they did to the Millenniumm One. Ash-Temple was unloading these orphans as they could, and I was too stupid to do my homework... The biggest problem, IMO, is that companies like Biolase are into the Steve Jobs method of management: Milk a product for all it is worth, (Apple II, MacOS 4 thru 9.2, BioLase Millenniumm) and then kill it, and all the support for it. Who cares if you alienate your old client base, when there are newer ones ready to be fleeced all the time? Roy has suggested that I contact the Big Wigs at Ash-Temple and see if they can't cobble a working Millenniumm together from all their old parts, and I will do that, but I'm not sure at this point that the Laser is worth it: those who want it WILL NOT PAY for it. So I have to pay for it FOR them.....?.....!!!!! This is the problem with the Laser. Hope there is someone out there who has slogged through this and learned what to demand when buying this kind of technology. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >and so >should the Endos. >Thanks >SP Nah. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >I think the machine is healozone >the company that make it is curozone >the distributor is KaVo. And the whole deal falls into the bullsh*tozone. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >I think the machine is healozone > >the company that make it is curozone [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com There is one thing that <RB> said about the bullsh*tozone: It seems to sterilize (neutralize/denature) proteins well, and so his company is developing an O3 based sterilizer.... prions..... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet You see? Captain RB is going to make money off this another way. Would you say his POV is biased? Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> >I think the machine is healozone [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > developing an O3 based sterilizer.... prions..... > SP > You see? Captain RB is going to make money off this another way. Would you > say his POV is biased? Not in the least ..... heh....heh......heh... The SMD should jump in and develop a comptetive model... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> >I think the machine is healozone >> >the company that make it is curozone [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >developing an O3 based sterilizer.... prions..... >SP May help YKW with SBE... -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >developing an O3 based sterilizer.... prions..... > >SP [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > W_B 'S what I was thinking, actually... ;-) SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >WB has probably shorted KaVo already. Wish I had. > >carabelli Made a bundle too ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com the following taken from Ray Bertolotti's website Ozone Therapy, The Next Major Change in Restorative Dentistry. In 2004, I will be introducing the HealOzone (CurOzone USA). Although manufactured in the USA, it is not yet approved for sale in the USA (FDA approval is pending). It is approved in Canada (Scican, Toronto) as well as most of Europe (KaVo Germany) . Ozone treatment has been shown to clinically reverse caries in a very large percentage of cases (results vary from 86% to 100% success in various studies). The ozone delivery system is a device that takes in air and produces ozone gas. The ozone is then delivered via a hose into a disposable sterile cup at a concentration of 2,100ppm ± 10%. The ozone gas is refreshed in this disposable cup at a rate of 615 cc/minute changing the volume of gas inside the cup over 300 times every second. The cup forms a seal around the lesion being treated so that ozone cannot leak into the oral cavity. Around 20-40 seconds of ozone application have been shown to penetrate through carious dentin to eliminate any live bacteria, fungi, and viral contamination. This treatment eliminates the ecological niche of cariogenic organisms as well as priming the tissues for remineralization. The remineralized tooth structure is more resistant to future decay than was the original. In fact no healed areas have been observed to form recurrent caries! The treatment cleared the Canadian Ministry of Health. more Ray forsees the following applications to several major restorative problems: Class I incipient lesions where caries reversal will totally eliminate drill and fill, rather a sort of "natural healing". Larger class I lesions where caries, even into the pulp, can be reversed on the inner 3-5 mm. Class V lesions, which are easily accessed, can also be a no-drill situation. Crown margins to reverse margin caries. Sterilization of root canals prior to fill. Very fast internal bleaching. Desensitizing crown preps. Surely other applications will follow. What will Ray B. do when he forgets and stores his magic wand on end one day and all the magic runs out of it? Seriously, either Ray B. is a crummy researcher, very gullible, or has invested lots of money in the device and KaVo. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > more > Ray forsees the following applications to several major restorative [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Desensitizing crown preps. > Surely other applications will follow. > In fact no healed areas have > been observed to form recurrent caries! > The treatment cleared the Canadian Ministry of Health. Kaannnaadiaan Ministry of Health..... cannot even keep track of adverse reactions to pharmaceuticals... I think there is politics involved here. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a > lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not > be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. I wonder if that would be useful for jaw osteomyletis. IIRC they have been using ozone in Europe to kill bacteria at sites of jaw infection. It will kill bacteria but not induce bone rejuvination. Dead bone is dead. A tooth does not need to be vital to be ozoned and reminiralized from caries. right but mostly as a marketing attraction I see big commercial TREATMENT WITHOUT DRILLING ONLY 50$ TO THE TOOTH EXTRA :)) >> I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a >> lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > they have been using ozone in Europe to kill bacteria at > sites of jaw infection. here is the correct link http://www.curozone.com/ yes It is exactly some toy I was taking about... IMHO it isnt worth price if thay will charge for that 1000$ perhaps I will buy it as a additional treatment method > here is the correct link > > http://www.curozone.com/ > yes It is exactly some toy I was taking about... > IMHO it isnt worth price if thay will charge for that 1000$ perhaps I will > buy it as a additional treatment method I can see how ozone might kill bugs but how can it repair the damage? Their web site suggests that when you drill 80% of the time some caries is left behind so perhaps an improved proceedure would be... drill + ozone + fill >> yes It is exactly some toy I was taking about... >> IMHO it isnt worth price if thay will charge for that 1000$ perhaps I will [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >drill + ozone + fill In the 1920s and 1930s they applied phenol to the prepared tooth. Later it was found that this created a pulpal reaction. Anyone who thinks ozone will do something needs to become informed about how bacteria propagate. Joel >>>yes It is exactly some toy I was taking about... >>>IMHO it isnt worth price if thay will charge for that 1000$ perhaps I will [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Joel You seem to have a proof (based on the nature of bacterial propagation) that ozone has no effect on the bacteria of caries. How about giving an outline? >> In the 1920s and 1930s they applied phenol to the prepared tooth. >> Later it was found that this created a pulpal reaction. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >that ozone has no effect on the bacteria of caries. How about giving an >outline? Sure. 1. Phenol kills bacteria, but causes pulpitis. 2. Ozone may kill bacteria, but believe me, if the tooth is not well sealed, the bacteria will be back pronto! 3. Bacteria are ubiquitous! We tend to think of them as "dirt" due to too much television advertising. Anti-bacterial soaps basically cause more harm than not. Joel > I can see how ozone might kill bugs but how can it repair the damage? Their > web site suggests that when you drill 80% of the time some caries is left > behind so perhaps an improved proceedure would be... > > drill + ozone + fill Will you pay the extra $$$ for that? Assuming that real research says that it does work? SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > Will you pay the extra $$$ for that? Assuming that real research says > that it does work? I think if there was good scientific evidence (double blind trials etc) that proved the end result of drill+oxone+fill produced fillings that lasted significantly longer then possibly yes I would pay more. >> Will you pay the extra $$$ for that? Assuming that real research says >> that it does work? > >I think if there was good scientific evidence (double blind trials etc) that >proved the end result of drill+oxone+fill produced fillings that lasted >significantly longer then possibly yes I would pay more. I don't think you are the average dental consumer! However, people are paying for bleaching lights for dental whitening, and they HAVE been proven not to work. I think that if you got people to pay for it, it'd be more for the high tech wizardly they see than any benefit they think will occur. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? > I don't think you are the average dental consumer! I guess it depends on the cost vs benifit... If for $10 more you could get an extra few years out of a filling I'd go for it. If you said $100 more I probably wouldn't. > > I don't think you are the average dental consumer! > > I guess it depends on the cost vs benifit... If for $10 more you could get > an extra few years out of a filling I'd go for it. If you said $100 more I > probably wouldn't. That sounds logical.. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >Subject: Re: CUREOZONE >From: StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet (StovePipe) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >That sounds logical.. >SP Money is absolutely of no value, if one doesn't have thier health. *IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH! NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metalin the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol. I did, it saved my life .Mercury is Poisonous.There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other sources together. U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such aschlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronicdevices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected bycondensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.* The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount ofmercury in the environment http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm 17. DENTAL AMALGAMDental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPAregulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for its disposal. Jan > > Will you pay the extra $$$ for that? Assuming that real research says > > that it does work? > > I think if there was good scientific evidence (double blind trials etc) that > proved the end result of drill+oxone+fill produced fillings that lasted > significantly longer then possibly yes I would pay more. And if that were the case, I would offer it with pleasure, knowing that such a treatment _should_ pay for itself. As it is, the only group that has done research is the one that developed it, in Ireland. Google groups the HealOzone on sci.med.dentistry and you will see that Dr.S has poked holes in those studies quite well. SP SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet (StovePipe) > Dr.S has poked holes in those >studies quite well. Dr S is a proven liar. We have it here but its not popular and not-efficient of course its good for marketing but Its doesnt worth the price >I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a > lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not > be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. Are you in the UK? I'll let you guys know after the lecture. > We have it here but its not popular and not-efficient of course its good for > marketing but Its doesnt worth the price [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not > > be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB004153.htm Reviewers' conclusions: Given the high risk of bias in the available studies and lack of consistency between different outcome measures, there is no reliable evidence that application of ozone gas to the surface of decayed teeth stops or reverses the decay process. There is a fundamental need for more evidence of appropriate rigour and quality before the use of ozone can be accepted into mainstream primary dental care or can be considered a viable alternative to current methods for the management and treatment of dental caries. >http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB004153.htm > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >viable alternative to current methods for the management and treatment of >dental caries. People, , , look at the research. All from the same guy! .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA I am writing on a Tablet-PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my handwriting. How much stock does this researcher own?? - dentaldoc Steve Mancuso wrote: People, , , look at the research. All from the same guy! .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Almost all of it Signature--------------============-------------========= Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan USA ................................................................. This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. /////////////////////// > How much stock does this researcher own?? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. > Troy, Michigan, USA Is it this? CUREZONE ??? http://www.bikerchick.freehomepage.com/custom2.html Research has demonstrated that 100% of all root canals result in residual infection due to the imperfect seal that allows bacteria to penetrate. The toxins given off by these bacteria are more toxic than mercury. These toxins can cause systemic diseases of the heart, kidney, uterus, and nervous and endocrine systems. Edward Arana, D.D.S. http://www.curezone.com/dental/ .... Cavitations or NICO's occur when bone is deprived of its blood supply and dies. When the bone dies a hole in the bone develops, literally a cavity and into this hole migrate anaerobic bacteria. These bacteria live without oxygen, indeed oxygen is poisonous to them [this is why many people never feel pain where pulled teeth were or in their root canals, not the case with aerobic bacteria in an abcessed tooth, which utilize oxygen to live and create pain and/or pus]. Bacteria organise themselves into colonies which can be visualised as cities. Cities require food to come in (you the patient supply the food!) and generate waste material. The waste material made by these bacteria is toxic in the extreme and in cavitations this toxic material is constantly being released into the body. If Mustard Gas, used in WW1, is taken as a yard stick, then most of the bacterial waste products are 10 or more times as toxic than Mustard Gas. Cavitations can occur in any bone in the body usually after infection or trauma of some sort. Naturally dental extraction can easily be the cause of a cavitation, this is especially true of wisdom teeth extractions. Most extractions are due to infection, they involve stretching and sometimes fracture of the bone all predisposing factors for cavitation formation. Added to this is the fact that if the membrane that holds the tooth in place, the periodontal membrane, is not removed at the same time as the tooth comes out, this to leads to cavitation formation. It is not common for the dentist removing the tooth to also remove the membrane at the same time, an unfortunate fact. .... If the nerve inside a tooth has died then the tooth may need a Root...[canal]. A root...[canal] is simply material put into a tooth where the nerve used to be. Traditionally a rubber like substance called Gutta Percha is used. This can contain mercury. Other materials include Formaldehyde, Cadmium, Steroids or even concentrated Sulphuric Acid. The problem with root canals is both the toxic nature of the materials used and the fact that they do not fill fully the open spaces inside the tooth >I mentioned to you guys this system about a year ago and I've heard a >lot of pecemistic comments. Well just to update, Ray Bertolotti in [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >now. The machine is expensive about $15K-$20K so the treatments may not >be cheap and it will take a while for dentists to buy the machines. From: StovesNewA...@sympatico.DOTnet (StovePipe) Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 12:29:43 -0500 Local: Sun, Jan 9 2005 9:29 am Subject: Re: CUREOZONE CWatters <colin.watt...@pandoraBOX.be> wrote: > I can see how ozone might kill bugs but how can it repair the damage? Their > web site suggests that when you drill 80% of the time some caries is left > behind so perhaps an improved proceedure would be... > drill + ozone + fill Will you pay the extra $$$ for that? Assuming that real research says that it does work? SP Because a treatment has not been proven in a controlled trial does not mean it does not work or does not have scientific backing. "Wyle E. Coyote, M.D. From: "CWatters" <colin.watt...@pandoraBOX.be> - Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:08:30 GMT Local: Sun, Jan 9 2005 11:08 am Subject: Re: CUREOZONE > Because a treatment has not been proven in a controlled trial does not mean > it does not work or does not have scientific backing. You are quite right but... How do you decide WHICH treatment to choose if you only have limited resources? That's a crucial subject. WHY is the USA the only county that has NOT set limits on prescription drugs prices?? How many must do without the prescriptions they need? Everyone should know the answer. How do you improve a treatment if you don't know which component of that treatment is most effective? When *organized medicine and dentisry* stop lying, and accept the proof we already have, they would immediately ban amalgams. as we already have composites which are effective, WITHOUT highly toxic mercury. The MD quote was made to Stove who keeps making excuses for his continual use of amalgam, even though he knows it is harmful. First,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,do no harm. Jan |
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