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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005

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Question about amalgams

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adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 29 Dec 2004 03:23 GMT
I have ten amalgams that have been there for about twenty years.
Although I have no problems with the amalgams, I have heard that they
release mercury and it would be best to have them removed and replaced
with the newer composite material. My dentist says that the risk is
negligent but I thought I would get a second (or more) opinion.

My question is, how much of a danger is the mercury released from the
amalgams and should I just wait until the amalgams fail before
replacing them. I also have heard that the process of removing the
amalgams can release more mercury than just leaving them be.

I am forty years old and in good health. I do have a slight hand
tremor that runs in my family on my father's side.

Thanx.

Richie
Dr. Steve - 29 Dec 2004 03:53 GMT
>I have ten amalgams that have been there for about twenty years.
>Although I have no problems with the amalgams, I have heard that they
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Richie

Before we respond, have you already made up your mind, and only wish
to have us confirm it?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 29 Dec 2004 05:14 GMT
>>I have ten amalgams that have been there for about twenty years.
>>Although I have no problems with the amalgams, I have heard that they
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Before we respond, have you already made up your mind, and only wish
>to have us confirm it?

If I made up my mind I would not be bothering to ask. I am leaning
toward not having them removed since my dentist said it was not
necessary. I figure he would have a financial interest in removing
them so his recommendation to leave them makes me more comfortable in
trusting his decision.

Richie
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
>Troy, Michigan, USA
>
>Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 30 Dec 2004 15:18 GMT
>If I made up my mind I would not be bothering to ask. I am leaning
>toward not having them removed since my dentist said it was not
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Richie

There you go, you answered you own question.

Have them replaced when/if they fail.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Jan - 29 Dec 2004 04:28 GMT
>adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com

No posting history.

Forte APN, http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php

Invalid URL

One of the *GANG* is bored.

Question has been answer previously.
adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 29 Dec 2004 05:16 GMT
>>adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Question has been answer previously.

I don't know what you are talking about. Sorry if I already asked a
question that has already been answered.

I am new to the internet. A friend got me started with newsgroups and
this is my first post. What does invalid URL mean?? And what gang are
you talking about??

Richie
Jan - 29 Dec 2004 06:55 GMT
>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>From: adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>I don't know what you are talking about.

>No posting history.
>>
>>Forte APN, http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php
>>
>>Invalid URL

Which part do you not understand?

>Sorry if I already asked a
>question that has already been answered.

>I am new to the internet. A friend got me started with newsgroups and
>this is my first post. What does invalid URL mean?

The address to a website.

>Forte APN, http://www.forteinc.com/apn/index.php

That's a URL.

> And what gang are
>you talking about??

Those who are in denial and trouble makers lookig for a fight. Those who
insuilt and tell lies.

Jan

>Richie
Joel M. Eichen - 29 Dec 2004 11:00 GMT
Richie,

Do not mind Jan. She is being a little rude. Normally she posts many
helpful links, but please listen to both sides before making up your
mind.

Joel

Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.

**

>>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>>From: adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
>>Richie
carabelli - 29 Dec 2004 13:55 GMT
<adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com> wrote..........

And what gang are
> you talking about??
>
> Richie

NBA ?

carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 29 Dec 2004 15:04 GMT
>>One of the *GANG* is bored.
>>
>>Question has been answer previously.
>
>I don't know what you are talking about. Sorry if I already asked a
>question that has already been answered.

Do not mind Jan. She has you mixed up with LIE-n-L RITCHIE.

Jan is into calling people LIE-yers.

Joel

>I am new to the internet. A friend got me started with newsgroups and
>this is my first post. What does invalid URL mean?? And what gang are
>you talking about??
>
>Richie
clintonz@prodigy.net - 29 Dec 2004 05:40 GMT
> >adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Question has been answer previously.

If so here is a question which should relieve their
boredom. Consider the following:

During an episode of the Monty Hall show, a $21,000 car is
driven on stage. His assistant comes out with a
glass case containing three keys one of which
starts the car. The assistant goes into the audience
and randomly gives two audience members two of
the keys. The remaing key is given to Monty who knows
who has the winning key. Monty then purposely picks
one of the audience members  with a losing key (randomly if both
have losing keys), takes it and shows them that it does not start the
car. He then turns to the remaining audience member and asks
if they want to switch keys with Monty, telling them that if the key
they end up with starts the car they will win the car and
he will give them $7000 if they switch. Should they switch?
Joel M. Eichen - 29 Dec 2004 10:59 GMT
>>adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Question has been answer previously.

Jan I am surprised. This guy needs links, right?
Joel M. Eichen - 29 Dec 2004 14:58 GMT
>>One of the *GANG* is bored.
>>
>>Question has been answer previously.

This is true. We NEVER repeat
information and REPOST links, now do we?
clintonz@prodigy.net - 29 Dec 2004 05:02 GMT
Assuming you are not a certain recent poster who has been
using an alias and posing these types of questions (no offense to you
personaly)

> I have ten amalgams that have been there for about twenty years.
> Although I have no problems with the amalgams, I have heard that they
> release mercury

that is true. there is quite a range in how much Hg a filling
can release based on many factors. On average they are the
largest source of Hg in the population.

> and it would be best to have them removed and replaced
> with the newer composite material.

That is a very difficult question to answer because sometimes
removing a filling can cause complications and composites may
have risks (they contain an interesting assortment of material). Some
people have also been hurt by improper amalgam removal or removal of
amlagams that may have been "leaking". See:

http://www.mercurypoisoned.com

Assuming that the removal causes no damage to the
tooth or infection ( I understand sometimes it does) and that
composites have risks acceptable to you, I personally
believe (I am not a dentist) that amalgam replacement would
be a good idea.

My dentist says that the risk is
> negligent but I thought I would get a second (or more) opinion.

That is incorrect. Got to the SMD-revisited thread and read through
the entire thread including my question.

Dentists are not in a position to assess risk. They are not
scientists. To determine risk you have to do 3 things.

1. Determine how much elemental Hg YOUR fillings are giving
off (pretty difficult)

2. Determine how much mehtyl Hg your fillings are contributing
to  (pretty difficult)

3. Find definitive research to correlate the amount of Hg you are
receiving with known toxic effects ( also difficult)

I would suggest that you do research using both pro and
anti amalgam links and base your decision on that.

> My question is, how much of a danger is the mercury released from the
> amalgams and should I just wait until the amalgams fail before
> replacing them. I also have heard that the process of removing the
> amalgams can release more mercury than just leaving them be.

That is not true because some people receive higher levels
of Hg from their fillings than others. Those who have the most
exposure easiliy receive much more than a safely done drilling
can release.  Also the amount you receive from your filling during a
drilling using safe procedures will be of short duration. In other
words if the filling is drilled
out safely the exposure you get will be less than what you are
exposed to over the life of the filling and probably less than
what you will receive over one or two years time or maybe even
a few months.

> I am forty years old and in good health. I do have a slight hand
> tremor that runs in my family on my father's side.

This issue is very controversial with many studies done on
both sides. If it were me and removing an amalgam wouldn't
remove too much of the tooth or precipiate infection I would
get it removed without the expectation that it would cure
the tremor. If you are in good health there is no rush
and I would take my time and research the issue thoroughly.

> Thanx.
>
> Richie
adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 29 Dec 2004 05:21 GMT
>Assuming you are not a certain recent poster who has been
>using an alias and posing these types of questions (no offense to you
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
>the tremor. If you are in good health there is no rush
>and I would take my time and research the issue thoroughly.

Thanx a lot for your reply. I am going to research it before making a
decision. That is why I asked in this newsgroup. I hoped that some
dentists who read this group might have some suggestions.

Richie

>> Thanx.
>>
>> Richie
clintonz@prodigy.net - 29 Dec 2004 05:50 GMT
I'd suggest going to the "SMD revisited" thread and reading what Hans
who is
a dentist from sweden writes in his reply to me in that thread.
Steven Fawks - 29 Dec 2004 15:01 GMT
Yep.  Hans has *almost* as much experience with composites
as I have.

Fawks

> I'd suggest going to the "SMD revisited" thread and reading what Hans
> who is
> a dentist from sweden writes in his reply to me in that thread.
Steven Fawks - 29 Dec 2004 17:02 GMT
Several dentists here have been in practice for more than 20
years.  Most of the dentists here use more composite than
amalgam in their practice today.  Some do not use amalgam at
all.

We have seen thousands upon thousands of patients and not one
of us has ever seen any health problems relating to amalgam use
or benefits from removal.

I have personally replaced amalgams at the request of a few patients
that had illnesses that some claim Hg to affect (leukemia, MS, etc.)
None of them had any improvement in their condition.

If you find a dentist who is skilled at placing composite and your
existing amalgams are not large, the risks of replacing them is small.
You'll just be out the money to have it done.  If some of them are large
or the dentist is not too swift, you can have sensitive teeth, food
impaction problems, and even end up needing root canals and crowns (this
could possibly happen *sometime* with doing nothing if there are large
fillings anyway...nothing lasts forever).

I would not expect any health problems from leaving them alone and
I would not expect any health benefits from replacing them.

Knock yourself out,
Fawks

> Dentists are not in a position to assess risk. They are not
> scientists. To determine risk you have to do 3 things.
>
> 1. Determine how much elemental Hg YOUR fillings are giving
adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 29 Dec 2004 22:17 GMT
>Several dentists here have been in practice for more than 20
>years.  Most of the dentists here use more composite than
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>Knock yourself out,
>Fawks

Thanx Fawks. You are confirming what my dentist told me. Many of my
fillings are quite large (especially in the back molars) so
replacement does not sound like a good idea.

I will likely just leave my amalgams alone, practice good oral hygiene
and hope that I won't need another root canal (already have had four
of them).

Richie

>> Dentists are not in a position to assess risk. They are not
>> scientists. To determine risk you have to do 3 things.
>>
>> 1. Determine how much elemental Hg YOUR fillings are giving
Tony Bad - 30 Dec 2004 01:26 GMT
I agree with what Dr. Fawks says...especially "I would not expect any health
problems from leaving them alone and I would not expect any health benefits from
replacing them."

Good advice.

T

> >Several dentists here have been in practice for more than 20
> >years.  Most of the dentists here use more composite than
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> >>
> >> 1. Determine how much elemental Hg YOUR fillings are giving
ChuckMSRD - 01 Jan 2005 22:47 GMT
>I agree with what Dr. Fawks says...especially "I would not expect any health
>problems from leaving them alone and I would not expect any health benefits
>from
>replacing them."

>T

Depends on what the source of the "health problems" are. It also depends on the
individuals knowledge of and follow through with aggressive treatment post
removal, if the health problems *are* Hg related. Sadly many get the amalgams
removed and wake up the next day thinking, "OK they are gone I should be
feeling great any day now".
Mercury is a tenacious, cruel toxin. Some toxicologist estimate that without
provocation, it can take the body upwards of 20 years for full detoxification.
Mercury - free DDS's who do recommend aggressive treatment post removal *do*
see results, again if the problem was Hg related. No surprise that conventional
Dentists who do not have knowledge of and thus do not recommend chelation Tx,
or even nutrition supplements, do not see results.

Chuck
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 23:16 GMT
>>I agree with what Dr. Fawks says...especially "I would not expect any health
>>problems from leaving them alone and I would not expect any health benefits
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>removed and wake up the next day thinking, "OK they are gone I should be
>feeling great any day now".

Chuck, you could be right, but
before medical and dental people
will buy that, it must be proven as such.

Joel

>Mercury is a tenacious, cruel toxin.

Feeling great occurs when I have an extremely delicious tongue
sandwich, on rye of course, with some brown mustard.

>Some toxicologist estimate that without
>provocation, it can take the body upwards of 20 years for full detoxification.

Or, a delicious tuna sald sandwich, made just right!

>Mercury - free DDS's who do recommend aggressive treatment post removal *do*
>see results, again if the problem was Hg related. No surprise that conventional
>Dentists who do not have knowledge of and thus do not recommend chelation Tx,
>or even nutrition supplements, do not see results.

Try it, you will like it!

Sandwiches, not mercury amalgamitis.

>Chuck
W_B - 01 Jan 2005 23:21 GMT
Joel again ?

>Depends on what the source

Damn Eichen/jan/rikki/cz/msrp/ etc...

Do you really have that much time on your hands ?

Take up another hobby, like <fill in blank>
Gotta admit that you are the best troll ever encountered.
X-cept for mebbe  
        'fargin-board'.
And I know you ain't him.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 23:35 GMT
>Joel again ?
>
>>Depends on what the source
>
>Damn Eichen/jan/rikki/cz/msrp/ etc...

Hey W_B. Big secret. SMD is just you and me. Your posts are you and I
post everything else.

Didn't you see the Truman Show?

You are Truman!

Joel

>Do you really have that much time on your hands ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>        'fargin-board'.
>And I know you ain't him.
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 23:36 GMT
>Joel again ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Do you really have that much time on your hands ?

Sad to say, I could post ten or twenty times as much. I actually hold
myself back.

Joel

>Take up another hobby, like <fill in blank>
>Gotta admit that you are the best troll ever encountered.
>X-cept for mebbe  
>        'fargin-board'.
>And I know you ain't him.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 30 Dec 2004 01:36 GMT
> Thanx Fawks. You are confirming what my dentist told me. Many of my
> fillings are quite large (especially in the back molars) so
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Richie

I could understant that sentiment. Root canals are also bad news.

I was rereading this link

http://www.altcorp.com/DentalInformation/salivahg.htm

and it was very interesting the range of exposure they
found in the salvia. One dental group had tried to
criticize this particular study because the patients
took their own saliva test but I noticed this paragraph:

"Original assumptions that most of the samples examined that lead to a
decisive excess above the PTWI value were samples containing coarse
amalgam particles have not been confirmed, apart from a few exceptions
(mercury content in the saliva more than 1000 µg/l).

Repeated sampling at different times of day showed deviations of less
than 20% in subjects with high Hg concentrations both in the
pre-chewing and in the chewing saliva. If particulate matter was
causally responsible for the high analytical values, then the
differences would be considerably larger."

It sounds like they took the individuals with the highest and
re-sampled them confirming the high levels in all but a few over
1000ug/L

Thus out of a sample of 20,000 you get

1% > 200ug/L  (about 150ug per day)

37 > 400ug/L  (about 300 ug per day)

11 > 1000ug/l (a few due to particulate breakoff)

In most pre-chewing saliva was < 25 ug per day

As you can see there is a small group with elevated
levels while most have much lower. While you probably
fall into the average range it's very convienent for
dentists to say they have never seen any problems with
amalgam. It's very easy to write 40/20000 = 1/500 off.

Another observation is that these measurements do not
account for methylized Hg. It would not surprise me
if some of those with decay near or on the filling and higher
levels also had significant methylization which drives the
toxicity fact up by 100-1000 for that % methylized. In other
words suppose someone with 300ug/day had 5% mehtylized. That
would be the equivalent of 15 ( 100-1000)ug/day = 1500-15000
ug per day! While on the the other hand 25% with less than
10 ug/day and no methylization and low absorption rates would get
comparatively speaking, insignifant exposure.

Also it wouldn't surprise me if some fillings had Hg concentrated
abnoramlly in pockets, such that during corrosion that Hg is
given off in surges. That would meant that even the above study
would grossly underestimate Hg burden in a small group.

> >> Dentists are not in a position to assess risk. They are not
> >> scientists. To determine risk you have to do 3 things.
> >>
> >> 1. Determine how much elemental Hg YOUR fillings are giving
adams_richie@NOTyahoo.com - 30 Dec 2004 02:22 GMT
>> Thanx Fawks. You are confirming what my dentist told me. Many of my
>> fillings are quite large (especially in the back molars) so
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>I could understant that sentiment. Root canals are also bad news.

You got that right. If I have to have any more I will have to mortgage
the house. But so far the four root canals with crowns are doing well.
No pain or sensitivity and some are over ten years old.

When my amalgams crack I will look into replacing them with composites
or whatever the best material is. Til then I will rest easy that they
are likely going to do me no harm (knock on wood).

Richie
Joel M. Eichen - 30 Dec 2004 11:58 GMT
>I could understant that sentiment. Root canals are also bad news.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>criticize this particular study because the patients
>took their own saliva test but I noticed this paragrap

That is why I recommend keeping amalgams out of Salvia.

Joel

Who is Salvia?
Fawks - 30 Dec 2004 04:38 GMT
A very logical approach.  Large amalgams often do lead to needing
crowns at some point in your life.  Several crowns often lead to
needing a root canal or two.  All of this is better than losing
teeth.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (plus three crowns and one
endo),
Fawks

> >I would not expect any health problems from leaving them alone and
> >I would not expect any health benefits from replacing them.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Richie
Jan - 30 Dec 2004 16:59 GMT
>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>From: "Fawks" tuthjockey@earthlink.net
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>needing a root canal or two.  All of this is better than losing
>teeth.

The tooth is DEAD.

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment

Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?

A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected
organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root
canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.

>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
>required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
>fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
>the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.

>The warning will read as follows:

>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:

>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
>to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
>defects or other reproductive harm.

>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
>bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.

>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
>approved for use all dental restorative materials.

>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
>treatment.

>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
>Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
>dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.

>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
>Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
>advocacy and activism in the public interest.

>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
>potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
>problem is that it's about 100 years too late."

>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
>filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
>widely used substance in dental fillings today.

>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
>of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.

>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
>Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
>private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
>employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking
>Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].

>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
>persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or
>reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental
>amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit
>was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
>restorative materials in dental offices.

>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
>than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
>fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
>$2,500 per day.

>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at
>415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.

>###

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 30 Dec 2004 17:33 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>>From: "Fawks" tuthjockey@earthlink.net
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>The tooth is DEAD.

Long Live the TOOTH.

(Substitute King for TOOTH to see what Jan is saying ...)

>http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment
>
[quoted text clipped - 168 lines]
>
>Jan
StovePipe - 01 Jan 2005 05:11 GMT
> While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
> it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
> impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected
> organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root
> canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.

This is pure and utter bullshit. This lady is not a dentist, nor is she
even a dental assistant. Root Canals and crowns save good teeth in a
useful form and can last a lifetime. The best prosthesis is often the
patients' own roots. The idea that they can't be disinfected is false.
If you choose to listen to this individual, do so with a very sceptical
attitude.
HTH
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Jan - 01 Jan 2005 08:23 GMT
>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>From: StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet  (StovePipe)
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>This is pure and utter bullshit. This lady is not a dentist,

You snipped the URL

Written by a DENTIST!

As a matter of fact, he has written s book.

You deceiving is noted.

Jan
http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 13:02 GMT
>Written by a DENTIST!
>
>As a matter of fact, he has written s book.

...and his office is teeming with foolish patients!

Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 13:02 GMT
>> While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
>> it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>HTH
>SP

We second that.

Jan is a CowPie artist.

Joel
W_B - 01 Jan 2005 22:40 GMT
>CowPie artist.
>
>Joel

Never seen you describe yourself so succincly before.

JME = JD

Damn, took me three years to figure that out.
<swats head and sez, coulda had a V8>

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 22:46 GMT
>>CowPie artist.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Damn, took me three years to figure that out.
><swats head and sez, coulda had a V8>

You are just too clever for us.

Cheers,

Joel/Jan/Keri
StovePipe - 01 Jan 2005 05:11 GMT
> >Knock yourself out,
> >Fawks
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Richie

remember: 'God may forgive us our sins, but the nervous system never
does'... This is just as true in the mouth as it is for the rest of the
body: if those are large fillings, the nerve tissue is already damaged.
The chances of needing a root canal are large, even if you do leave
those teeth alone. If and when it does happen, consider getting crowns
to reinforce an already weak tooth. Don't replace any large fillings
until it is really necessary, but OTOH don't ignore new caries.
HTH
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Jan - 01 Jan 2005 08:27 GMT
>Subject: Re: Question about amalgams
>From: StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet  (StovePipe)
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>HTH
>SP

That damage to the central nervous come from the mercury in your mouth.

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment

Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?

A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected
organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root
canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 01 Jan 2005 13:03 GMT
>That damage to the central nervous come from the mercury in your mouth.

Jan proves this almost every day!

She had mercury, she acts crazy!

Joel

>http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment
>
>Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?
Fawks - 03 Jan 2005 04:30 GMT
A very logical approach.  Large amalgams often do lead to needing
crowns at some point in your life.  Several crowns often lead to
needing a root canal or two.  All of this is better than losing
teeth.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt (plus three crowns and one
endo),
Fawks

> >I would not expect any health problems from leaving them alone and
> >I would not expect any health benefits from replacing them.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Richie
Mark Thorson - 29 Dec 2004 20:25 GMT
> I also have heard that the process of removing the amalgams
> can release more mercury than just leaving them be.

Here's what the experience of having amalgams removed
will be like:

"The only step we've taken that I truly regret is when
I had all my "silver" (amalgam) fillings in my teeth
replaced (22 fillings, involving 14 teeth). I do know
of people that this has helped, but it hasn't helped me
at all health-wise and has left me with over a year of
constant pain in my teeth. I lost 1 tooth that had to
be pulled, as well. The problem was that the dentist
did not warn me about just how excruciating the pain
could be before I had this done - they said it was
similar to getting a filling - and that I'd probably have
"a little sensitivity" afterwards. Was THAT ever an
understatement! I had to take strong pain-killers daily
for a solid two months after the removals, and that just
barely kept me comfortable! The other problem is
they talked me into having all 4 quadrants of my teeth
done the same week - in 4 consecutive days. This
was probably the biggest mistake we made. I had no
problems with the exposures during the removals - they
did follow the recommended protocol for removing
the amalgams. However, the pain and problems
with chewing I have suffered since then were just
unbearable. For almost a year I was not able to chew
anything even slightly crunchy - even pickles or onions -
and absolutely nothing to eat or drink that was
colder than room temperature! If something cold hit
those teeth - it would almost make me say dirty
words it would hurt so bad! I even had to brush
my teeth with warm water only. I'm just now starting to
be able to chew regularly again - nuts are still out,
but it's getting better all the time. Also, the filling
material they used on me was a "composite" and
they're not lasting at all. I've already had to have 2
crowns and a bridge (involving 3 teeth) because the
fillings started cracking the minute I was finally able
to start chewing on those back teeth. I'm just putting
this out there because I feel I wasn't given complete
information before making the decision to go ahead
with my removals. I now would tell people to try
absolutely EVERY other way to reduce their toxic
exposures first (cleaning their environment, switching
to non-toxic products, etc.) before making the decision
to have their fillings removed and replaced. And
even then - only if you're still really disabled from your
condition..."

That's a quote from:
http://www.ourlittleplace.com/jackimcs.html
Mark Thorson - 29 Dec 2004 20:27 GMT
> I also have heard that the process of removing the amalgams
> can release more mercury than just leaving them be.

Correct.

These studies show that mercury levels increase in the
days following amalgam removal, and don't decline
to the pre-operative level for about a month.

Eur J Oral Sci 1999 Jun;107(3):202-7
Effect of rubber dam on mercury exposure during
amalgam removal.
Kremers L, Halbach S, Willruth H, Mehl A, Welzl G,
Wack FX, Hickel R, Greim H.
Department of Restorative Dentistry and
Periodontology, University of Munich, Germany.

It was the aim of this investigation to treat
20 volunteers with maximally 5 amalgam fillings
by the same comprehensive protocol in which all
removals with (n = 8) and without (n = 12) rubber
dam had been performed within a few months. Nine
amalgam-related parameters indicated a close
matching of both groups before removal. In the
group without rubber dam, mercury (Hg) levels
in plasma increased significantly above preremoval
values at days 1 and 3 after removal; they decreased
significantly below preremoval values at day 30
in the rubber-dam group and at day 100 in both
groups. Excretion rates did not increase
significantly in either group, but decreased
significantly at day 100 in the protected group.
Peak plasma-Hg was 0.6 ng/mL on average at day
one and decreased with halftimes of 3 and 43 d
in subjects protected by rubber dam. The results
indicated that concentrations of total mercury
in plasma responded rapidly to changes in the
amalgam status and reflected the actual absorption
most reliably. Notably, plasma-Hg levels were
sensitive enough to detect a transient attenuation
of the additional exposure by using rubber dam
during the removal of only a few fillings. However,
being small in magnitude and lasting 100 d at best,
the rubber-dam effect had minor toxicological
relevance.

Acta Odontol Scand. 1990 Jun;48(3):189-202.
Mercury, selenium, and glutathione peroxidase
before and after amalgam removal in man.
Molin M, Bergman B, Marklund SL, Schutz A,
Skerfving S.
Department of Prosthetic Dentistry,
University of Umea, Sweden.

In 10 healthy persons all amalgam fillings were
replaced with gold inlays. Blood and urinary levels
were measured on 10 occasions during a 4-month
period before and a 12-month period after
amalgam removal. These variables were also measured
three times in 10 healthy controls. A strong
statistically significant relation was found
between plasma mercury values and both the
total number of amalgam surfaces (r = 0.71,
p = 0.0006) and the total surface area of the
fillings (r = 0.73, p = 0.0004). In the immediate
postremoval phase plasma mercury rose three- to
four-fold, whereas the urinary and erythrocyte
mercury rose about 50%. These peak values
declined to the preremoval level at about 1 month.
Twelve months after the removal the plasma
and urinary mercury levels were significantly
reduced to 50% and 25%, respectively, of the
initial values for the experimental group. Apart
from the significantly lower plasma selenium
values 5 and 10 days after removal no significant
differences were found with regard to plasma
selenium or erythrocyte glutathione peroxidase
either within or between the experimental and
the control groups. A large number of
supplementary biochemical analyses did not show
any influence on organ functions or any
differences between the groups before or after
the amalgam removal. Amalgam fillings
considerably contributed to the plasma and
urinary mercury levels.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 30 Dec 2004 20:39 GMT
> > I also have heard that the process of removing the amalgams
> > can release more mercury than just leaving them be.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> days following amalgam removal, and don't decline
> to the pre-operative level for about a month.

"In the immediate
postremoval phase plasma mercury rose three- to
four-fold"

In other words three times the normal exposure
for one month. How much exposure do you get
for a year if you leave the amalgam in?

Saying you will get more from drilling than long term
exposure is FALSE and misleading. Considering that
at least 1% has exposure 4 times higher than average
it is also probably wrong even for that month in that subgroup.

Another point -I would also guess that vaporized Hg
from drilling would show more readily in the blood than
Hg from amalgam in the saliva, most of which passes through
the intestine unabsorbed.
 
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