Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 14:20 GMT
Posted on Thu, Dec. 23, 2004

Doctor to the poor bids a bitter adieu

Stripped of license, 'Dr. Eddie' faces jail.

By Amy S. Rosenberg

Inquirer Staff Writer

VINELAND, N.J. - They're praying for Dr. Eddie at the clinic, patients
like Willie Hernandez, a 42-year-old former heroin addict whose
forearms are gouged with scars from cutting himself.

Hernandez is bringing sodas to the staff this Wednesday night, saying
it's the least he can do for all they have done for him, a
down-and-out, left-for-trash guy battling anxiety attacks, a spider
tattoo covering old needle marks.

"Who cares about the heroin addict in this world?" Hernandez says. "As
long as I've been going to Dr. Eddie, they show me care. This is the
only place that helps us. If they close us down, who's going to help
us?"

Dr. Eddie Andujar will appear this night, but only for a prayer
service. He is no longer allowed to treat the patients at the medical
clinic that bears his name: "Dr. Eddie's Free Clinic 'For The
Uninsured.' "

The room electrifies as he goes from patient to patient, kissing
cheeks, gripping shoulders, a savior clad in black "Dr. Eddie" scrubs,
a Filofax in his back pocket and a wooden cross around his neck.

But Dr. Eddie is in trouble.

After growing up as a poor Puerto Rican kid milking goats in Vineland,
speeding through a world championship kickboxing career, amassing
degrees from Haverford College and Harvard Medical School, and
devoting countless hours to treating the desperate, Andujar may be on
the verge of a flameout.

In February, he is to be sentenced in U.S. District Court in Camden on
22 counts of tax evasion and bankruptcy fraud, crimes stemming from a
failed series of franchised clinics he ran in the 1990s. He faces up
to four years in prison.

Over the pleas of many of his patients, the state Board of Medical
Examiners decided that his crimes amounted to "moral turpitude" - and,
in June, stripped him of his medical license.

Now, it is the patients who worry about their doctor. "I think it's
wrong," says Aldene Victor, 34. She turned to him to treat her high
blood pressure after another clinic turned her away because she could
not afford the fee. "People should appreciate him and not be too quick
to judge."

•

From behind the wall of his office, Andujar, 48, can hear the
commotion from the clinic where he used to see from 80 to 100 people a
day. The patients are lining up as usual this weekday afternoon, the
addicts, the HIV and hepatitis C sufferers, the poor with no
insurance.

The doctor whom Andujar recruited to replace himself quit after city
authorities shut down the second Dr. Eddie clinic, in Atlantic City.
They wanted to make sure Andujar was not practicing. Another doctor,
Ivan Krohn, has taken over some of the Vineland practice.

More than anything, what rankles Andujar is that judgment of moral
turpitude, which the medical board defined as a breach of "the private
or social duties which a man owes to his fellow men, to society in
general."

To cast him as the one who ignores his obligations to his fellow man
is, he says, "a total hypocrisy."

"I don't choose to go and buy a Mercedes," says Andujar, who now runs
a mail-order vitamin business. "I choose to go and help the poor. I
see many children who are sick and haven't gotten care. I'm dealing
with people who most doctors don't want to see. I've opened everything
I have to these people."

He says he received calls from two doctors offering to testify on his
behalf before the licensing board because "they did not want these
patients on their doorsteps."

It is rare for a doctor to be disciplined for tax evasion - less than
1 percent of disciplinary actions against U.S. doctors each year
concern taxes, according to the Federation of State Medical Boards.

Andujar acknowledges that he was negligent about filing tax returns,
but attributes that to the pressures of his bankruptcy and to sloppy
accounting procedures. He says he intended to file the returns later.

And none of it, he says, hurt his practice of medicine, which he says
proved that treating the poor could be done "appropriately and
legitimately." In 2003, he says, the practice grossed $1 million while
giving $479,000 in free care.

Investigators accused him of failing to file individual and corporate
tax returns for five years, covering more than $1 million in taxes,
and failing to disclose transactions that put $106,000 in his personal
account.

After the trial, IRS special agent Patricia J. Haynes said, "Neither
the notoriety or benevolence of any individual is a substitute for the
fulfillment of their tax obligations." Assistant U.S. Attorney Thomas
DeLeonardo says of Andujar's patients, "It's unfortunate that he's put
those people in that situation, but he has. It's his own fault."

Andujar says part of his trouble stems from the fact that his practice
makes the medical establishment uneasy, both for its stubborn focus on
the uninsured and for relying on sometimes-controversial alternative
treatments for drug addiction and other conditions.

He traces his financial difficulties to what he says was the failure
of insurance companies to reimburse him for $8 million in intravenous
antibiotic therapy used to treat Lyme disease at his failed
Medi-One-Stop clinics.

To be sure, a Dr. Eddie clinic is not your typical medical office.

Behind the front desk and waiting area is a room lined with black
recliners, each with an I.V. stand. Addicts get intravenous vitamin
therapy three times a week, and drugs including Xanax for anxiety and
injections of buprenorphine for pain.

They also spend time in a back room equipped with a pool table,
exercise bikes and a TV, and attend weekly prayer sessions. They are
welcome to stay all day. "R.I.P. those who didn't have a free clinic
to go to," a patient wrote on a tombstone drawing that hangs on the
wall.

To some medical experts, Andujar's treatments range from slightly
unusual to highly unorthodox. Buprenorphine was approved recently to
treat addiction, but only in oral form. Andujar says the addicts who
get injections of it at the clinic do so under a "pain management"
program, for which it is approved. Intravenous vitamin therapy is more
"off the map" for addiction, says Mark Parrino, head of the American
Association for the Treatment of Opioid Dependence.

Andujar's practices have brought regulatory scrutiny in the past. He
received a two-year probationary sentence in 1999 after the state
medical board accused him of giving unnecessary treatment, which he
denied. In 2002, city, state and federal investigators were brought to
the clinic by the drug-overdose death of a homeless man who had been
living there. Andujar's license was suspended for two months, and he
was fined $50,000.

Andujar has nothing but disdain for the regulators.

"The Division of Consumer Affairs comes in like they're protecting
people - they won't stand within 20 feet of these people unless they
were ordered. I want to help these people. There is nothing wrong with
that."

Andujar hopes that a pending U.S. Supreme Court decision about
sentencing guidelines will permit his judge to be lenient. A sentence
of probation might allow him to get his license back. But he's
prepared for the worst. "My lawyers say you could go to jail, and I
say, most of the people I treat have already been in jail. The poor
are in jail from the day they are born."

•

Andujar's mother, Maria, leans on a metal filing cabinet, leading the
prayer service. Eddie, the youngest of her 10 children, was three
months old when the family moved from Puerto Rico to Vineland. His
father worked in a chicken factory. Some of his relatives still hang
around the clinic or work there. "My son, he give his blood to the
community," his mother says.

After hooking up at age 12 with martial-arts instructor Joseph Artesi,
who became a lifelong mentor, Andujar launched a career in "full
contact karate" or kickboxing that landed him on the cover of a karate
magazine and in possession of a world championship. He helped Artesi
run a summer camp, where he so impressed one boy's father that the man
helped Andujar obtain a scholarship to his alma mater, Haverford.

Andujar's wife and four daughters moved to California after his arrest
to pursue soccer training. For a while, he flew back and forth every
week, but since his conviction, he is not allowed to leave New Jersey.

Artesi doesn't quite know what to make of what has befallen his
protege. He keeps boxes of Andujar stuff - including an interview that
quotes Andujar, at 20, promising to return to Vineland to treat the
poor.

"There was something about this kid that set him apart," Artesi, 65,
says. "All I can say is, it's incongruent that this could happen. He's
not a businessman. He's a cause guy."

Now, the cause at the clinic is Dr. Eddie himself.

"All I can tell you is it hurts a lot of patients," says Lisa Viruet,
a medical assistant at the clinic. "They always ask me, 'How is Eddie
doing?' But they won't give up on him. There's a lot of people in
Vineland who won't give up on him."
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 14:24 GMT
About this post and crossposting ....... and I am trying to understand
what you guys are saying:

This article brings to mind the problems people have with
reasonably-priced MEDICAL access and dental access ........ and it on
the same level or perhaps even more important than QUICKER BEAN SOUP.
And come to think of it QUICKLER BEAN SOUP is QUICKER but not more
frugal, unless you are counting the gas used to heat the soup.

So would the CENSORS say that this stuff has no place in
sci.med.dentistry or misc.consumers.frugal-living, or is this one
okay?

I am trying to understand here.

Joel

>Posted on Thu, Dec. 23, 2004
>
[quoted text clipped - 195 lines]
>doing?' But they won't give up on him. There's a lot of people in
>Vineland who won't give up on him."
Tony Bad - 23 Dec 2004 16:59 GMT
> About this post and crossposting ....... and I am trying to understand
> what you guys are saying:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Joel

Me too. I am trying to understand why you feel it is your duty to crosspost
everything. If you genuinely feel that these are topics of merit to several
groups, why not post it once to each group...that way, if it is of interest, a
separate and distinct discussion will arise on each group. If it is NOT of
interest, one group will not be subject to the discussion of it being x-posted.

That seems simple, and far more courteous than the way you do it. I think back
to the endless stream of crap from a X-post you made to some digital photo group
and cannot help but wonder why you feel x-posting is a plus.

If you go to a gathering, do you feel compelled to dash across the room to make
sure each little group of people is cognizant of what every other little group
is discussing? Quite frankly, your compulsion with this crossposting is
annoying, rude, and rather odd.

I have wanted to address this before, but felt it best to wait until I was in a
polite mood.

Please stop.

T
carabelli - 23 Dec 2004 17:27 GMT
"Tony Bad" <spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam> .................

> Me too. I am trying to understand why you feel it is your duty to
> crosspost
> everything...................

> Please stop.
>
> T

He can't stop himself.  A few years ago I even threatened to have my
mother-in-law start sending him copies of every newpaper clipping she sends
us.

carabelli

Ten bucks says this will show up in misc.consumers.frugal-living before
1:00pm
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 20:17 GMT
>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........
>From: "carabelli" huerter@worldnet.att.net
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>He can't stop himself.

B I N G O!!!

Jan, not Kan, sorry bout that.

> A few years ago I even threatened to have my
>mother-in-law start sending him copies of every newpaper clipping she sends
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Ten bucks says this will show up in misc.consumers.frugal-living before
>1:00pm
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 17:31 GMT
>Me too. I am trying to understand why you feel it is your duty to crosspost
>everything.

Beleive me, its not everything .... its a select group of posts.
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 17:32 GMT
>If you genuinely feel that these are topics of merit to several
>groups, why not post it once to each group...that way, if it is of interest, a
>separate and distinct discussion will arise on each group.

S-h-h-h-h-h. I am trying to get some new blood to discuss their dental
issues ......

If we keep ... never mind.

Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 17:33 GMT
>That seems simple, and far more courteous than the way you do it. I think back
>to the endless stream of crap from a X-post you made to some digital photo group
>and cannot help but wonder why you feel x-posting is a plus.

Gee I forgot those guys ,, ,they were pretty cool too .....

Now the BODY MODIFICATION dudes .. they were nasty.

Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 17:34 GMT
>Quite frankly, your compulsion with this crossposting is
>annoying, rude, and rather odd.

I am patiently waiting for some DENTAL topics to discuss ...... there
does not seem to be much of that around.

Joel
Tony Bad - 23 Dec 2004 18:18 GMT
> >Quite frankly, your compulsion with this crossposting is
> >annoying, rude, and rather odd.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Joel

What have you got against silence?

T
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 20:47 GMT
>> >Quite frankly, your compulsion with this crossposting is
>> >annoying, rude, and rather odd.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>What have you got against silence?

Good one!

Simon and Garfunkel .......

>T
Roy Brown - 23 Dec 2004 20:14 GMT
| > About this post and crossposting ....... and I am trying to understand
| > what you guys are saying:
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
|
| T

Tony, I agree 100%.

Joel, here is a suggestion that is a compromise. When you start a thread in
another group, that you might also separately post here. You could mention
somewhere in the post the other groups that you had posted the same initial
message to. That way the alt.whatever.group could come here and see what the
dental people had to say about your post, or the interested smd'ers could go
there. If enough interest existed in both groups for an ongoing discussion, then
and only then should you even consider a cross post. It would be courteous if
you asked the groups if they were interested in x-posting the thread first.

Roy
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 20:48 GMT
>| T
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Roy

Good enough!

Good suggestion.

Joel'
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 20:15 GMT
>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........
>From: "Tony Bad" spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
>T

HEAR HEAR!!!!!

Thanks Tony.

That's exactly why I call Joel's behavior as a chicken with it's head off.

Kan
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 20:49 GMT
>>T
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Kan

Any mercury with that?

Joel
Robert  Morien - 23 Dec 2004 20:01 GMT
The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
the smell it leaves behind you.

May all of your past, present and future "patients" have the sense to
google you. May your family and "friends" have the sense to google you.
May all of them learn who you really are and then re-evaluate their
relationships with you.

> About this post and crossposting ....... and I am trying to understand
> what you guys are saying:
[quoted text clipped - 212 lines]
> >doing?' But they won't give up on him. There's a lot of people in
> >Vineland who won't give up on him."
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 20:49 GMT
>The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
>CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
>the smell it leaves behind you.

This guy has a certain way with words ......

Joel

>May all of your past, present and future "patients" have the sense to
>google you. May your family and "friends" have the sense to google you.
[quoted text clipped - 217 lines]
>> >doing?' But they won't give up on him. There's a lot of people in
>> >Vineland who won't give up on him."
Chuck - 23 Dec 2004 21:46 GMT
> >The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
> >CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >May all of them learn who you really are and then re-evaluate their
> >relationships with you.

Yes he does, doesn't he? But he also speaks the truth...

Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
post in.

You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or
whoever you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or
ISP if you break the rules. Depending on who you are using, by crossposting,
you very well could be breaking the terms and could be terminated.

People have been nice up until now, but you are really pissing people off.
People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
have seen it many times...

If you are actually a dentist, I hope that you have a different attitude
with your patients than you do here...
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 22:18 GMT
>People have been nice up until now, but you are really pissing people off.
>People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
>have seen it many times...

No problem Dude ,,, don't upset yourself ,,, life is short you know.

If you get a chance read the Frugal Clinic stuff. Its interesting and
it shows how the little guy does not have a chance in this world.

Too bad, isn't it? The laws favor the rich.

>If you are actually a dentist, I hope that you have a different attitude
>with your patients than you do here...

I got to get my plane geometry homewoerk done by tommorrow and I have
to go to the HomeWorkHelp.com site ..... OR ELSE!
oR eLsE1

Bye for now.

Joel
Chuck - 23 Dec 2004 23:22 GMT
> >People have been nice up until now, but you are really pissing people off.
> >People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Joel

What ever... Just trying to be nice to you and help... Looks as though you
don't want it...
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 00:15 GMT
>What ever... Just trying to be nice to you and help... Looks as though you
>don't want it...

Thanks for help Chuck, and by the way, please stop cross posting.

Joel

((humor))
Chuck - 24 Dec 2004 00:38 GMT
> >What ever... Just trying to be nice to you and help... Looks as though you
> >don't want it...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> ((humor))

I'm leaving the crossposting in for a reason...
carabelli - 23 Dec 2004 22:32 GMT
"Chuck" <chuck@host.invalid> wrote in....................

> Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
> post in.

Nah, we love him - just a little less crossdressing......... check that
crossposting.

(sung to the tune of Winter Wonderland):

Lacy things -- the wife is missin',
Didn't ask -- her permission,
I'm wearin' her clothes,
Her silk pantyhose,
Walkin' 'round in women's underwear.

carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 22:52 GMT
>"Chuck" <chuck@host.invalid> wrote in....................
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Nah, we love him - just a little less crossdressing......... check that
>crossposting.

Thanks ,,, see the frenum post above? Its usually an ortho problem
right?

Joel
carabelli - 23 Dec 2004 23:10 GMT
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:32:42 GMT, "carabelli"
...............

>>Nah, we love him - just a little less crossdressing......... check that
>>crossposting.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Joel

OK OK, I actually talked about dentistry again.  Busy day today, brother's
birthday tomorrow, go to my parents tomorrow, inlaws here on Christmas.
It's too cold to golf...................

later

carabelli
Advocate147 - 24 Dec 2004 01:15 GMT
"Nah, we love him"    Yes, yes.
Know the name "Joel"
Who is Chuck @host invalid.
What are your memorable posts, besides s$$t.
No right to voice an opinion, not being a dentist or a scientific opinion.
So tell me to go to he--.
I enjoy joel's varied posts.  
Who is the judge and jury here.

Gail Michael
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 13:31 GMT
>"Nah, we love him"    Yes, yes.
>Know the name "Joel"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>  

That is my entire point. Thanks Gail.

The internet itself needs to be non-judgemental.

It could be that QUICKER BEAN SOUP is a cure for many types of medical
conditions, including too much mercury in the blood.

Who knows?

(And its too easy to skip threads that do not interest us).

Joel
W_B - 24 Dec 2004 17:33 GMT
Any other verses ?

BTW you can actually fit in those things ?

Just wonderin'...

>"Chuck" <chuck@host.invalid> wrote in....................
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>carabelli

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
carabelli - 24 Dec 2004 18:16 GMT
> Any other verses ?

check your yahoo mail
Rob Satie - 25 Dec 2004 09:58 GMT
"carabelli" <huerter@worldnet.att.net> wrote in news:X1Zyd.28055$uM5.10955
@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>> Any other verses ?
>>
> check your yahoo mail

Bob Rivers wrote "Walkin' round ..." and a bunch more.

twistedtunes.com

Rob
W_B - 27 Dec 2004 15:30 GMT
>> Any other verses ?
>>
>check your yahoo mail

Thanks

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
dogsnus - 24 Dec 2004 14:52 GMT
> Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> crossposting, you very well could be breaking the terms and could be
> terminated.

As far as I'm aware,the limits of Netiquette allows up to 7 groups
at one time.
As far as what the remaining 4 groups he may end up crossposting to,
let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
choose them for him if he continues on his current path.

Terri

Signature

And puhlease - stop with the eating of two-dimensional things! You'l put an
uvula out!
Dave Delaney-ARK

Rod Speed - 24 Dec 2004 18:18 GMT
>> Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
>> apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>> crossposting, you very well could be breaking the terms and could be
>> terminated.

> As far as I'm aware,the limits of Netiquette

No such animal.

> allows up to 7 groups at one time.

Varys with the news server.

> As far as what the remaining 4 groups he may end up crossposting
> to, let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
> choose them for him if he continues on his current path.

Bet that will cause him to curl up and die for sure.
Bob Ward - 24 Dec 2004 18:38 GMT
>> Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
>> apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Terri

Who appointed you Emily Crosspost?  We don't need a net nanny czar.
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 19:13 GMT
>>Terri
>
>Who appointed you Emily Crosspost?  We don't need a net nanny czar.

Good one!
Chuck - 24 Dec 2004 20:16 GMT
> > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
> choose them for him if he continues on his current path.

That's fine, but to be honest, I am not worried about "netiquette"... That
is just a consensus. I would like to see the actual "rules" of this NG.

I know that most of the other NG's that I have read the charter, say the
limit on crossposting is that particular NG as well as 2 other NG's (3
total) along the same topic, but they discourage *any* crossposting at all.
I am just curious about this NG.
Rod Speed - 24 Dec 2004 20:47 GMT
>> > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
>> > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>> let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
>> choose them for him if he continues on his current path.

> That's fine, but to be honest, I am not worried about "netiquette"... That
> is just a consensus. I would like to see the actual "rules" of this NG.

No such animal.

> I know that most of the other NG's that I have read the charter, say the
> limit on crossposting is that particular NG as well as 2 other NG's (3
> total) along the same topic, but they discourage *any* crossposting at all.

More fool them.

> I am just curious about this NG.

There are no 'rules'
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 20:58 GMT
> > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
> choose them for him if he continues on his current path.

Why do these net-Fascists have to resort to threatening to turn people in
when all they need to do is learn how to use their newsreaders or the next
button?

Please note that this is a rhetorical question, as I have heard every excuse
from the net-Fascists to justify their actions. None of them have impressed
me.
Chuck - 24 Dec 2004 21:24 GMT
> > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> > > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> from the net-Fascists to justify their actions. None of them have impressed
> me.

Who threatened to turn anyone in??????
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 21:34 GMT
> > > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> > > > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Who threatened to turn anyone in??????

Read the thread. Someone mentioned ISP rules, etc. His name was "Chuck" and
he said this:

Yes he does, doesn't he? But he also speaks the truth...

Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
post in.

You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or
whoever you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or
ISP if you break the rules. Depending on who you are using, by crossposting,
you very well could be breaking the terms and could be terminated.

People have been nice up until now, but you are really pissing people off.
People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
have seen it many times...

--------------

AFAIAC, even bringing it up is a threat.

If someone does not like another person's post, use the freakin' next button
or learn how to use a newsreader.
Chuck - 24 Dec 2004 22:31 GMT
> > > > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> > > > > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> whoever you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or
> ISP if you break the rules. Depending on who you are using, by
crossposting,
> you very well could be breaking the terms and could be terminated.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> If someone does not like another person's post, use the freakin' next button
> or learn how to use a newsreader.

No where in that post, did I say that I or anyone else was going to turn him
in. I said that someone *could* turn him in.

Stop trying to put words into peoples mouths (or posts)...
Jan - 25 Dec 2004 01:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
From: "Chuck" chuck@host.invalid Date: 12/24/2004 2:31 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <fN0zd.6257$iC4.1483@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:WZ%yd.5008$n8.2763@fe08.lga...

"Chuck" <chuck@host.invalid> wrote in message
news:XN%yd.6242$iC4.526@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...

"Mark Probert" <Mark Probert@lumbercartel.com> wrote in message
news:rr%yd.4994$eG7.3532@fe08.lga...

"dogsnus" <dogsnus@micron.net> wrote in message
news:332oopF3qnmgcU2@individual.net... "Chuck" <chuck@host.invalid> wrote in
news:U0Hyd.2540$F67.2477@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:

Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and apparently
in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross post in.

You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or whoever
you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or ISP if you
break the rules. Depending on who you are using, by crossposting, you very well
could be breaking the terms and could be terminated.

As far as I'm aware,the limits of Netiquette allows up to 7 groups at one time.
As far as what the remaining 4 groups he may end up crossposting to, let's just
say he may not like what those are since I may just choose them for him if he
continues on his current path.

Why do these net-Fascists have to resort to threatening to turn people in when
all they need to do is learn how to use their newsreaders or the next button?

Please note that this is a rhetorical question, as I have heard every excuse
from the net-Fascists to justify their actions. None of them have impressed me.

Who threatened to turn anyone in??????

Read the thread. Someone mentioned ISP rules, etc. His name was "Chuck" and he
said this:

Yes he does, doesn't he? But he also speaks the truth...

Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and apparently
in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross post in.

You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or whoever
you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or ISP if you
break the rules. Depending on who you are using, by crossposting, you very well
could be breaking the terms and could be terminated.

People have been nice up until now, but you are really pissing people off.
People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
have seen it many times...

--------------

AFAIAC, even bringing it up is a threat.

If someone does not like another person's post, use the freakin' next button or
learn how to use a newsreader.

No where in that post, did I say that I or anyone else was going to turn him
in. I said that someone *could* turn him in.

Stop trying to put words into peoples mouths (or posts)...

Mark makes statements that are not true, then uses *twisting* to try and prove
his mistake.

You'll need to get to know Mark.

He does it repeatedly, then starts with the *you are too stupid to understand*.

AFTER his twisting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

He remarks

intelligent discussion.

I suspect as others have stated, Mark S Probert is a failed lawyer, therefore
he spends all day on the computer trying to belittle and win arguments.

Jan

This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from
http://www.printcharger.com/emailStripper.htm
Mark Probert - 25 Dec 2004 20:58 GMT
> > > > > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL
> and
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>
> Stop trying to put words into peoples mouths (or posts)...

I stated that even bringing it up is a threat, and I maintain that position.
It is clear that it is my O P I N I O N.

I have seen too many nut cases (no, I am not referring to you) who just love
to jump and tattle to ISPs and mail services. This thread is crossposted to
misc.health.alternative where a Jan Drew posts, and she tattled on Joel
instead of dealing with it. Other posters in this group also tattle.

Another poster, from outside of the US was tattled on and this affected her
ISP service, since she resides where there is only one service. Again, there
are those in m.h.a. who supported that action.
Chuck - 26 Dec 2004 06:52 GMT
<snip>

> I stated that even bringing it up is a threat, and I maintain that position.
> It is clear that it is my O P I N I O N.

Sorry, my opinion differs...

> I have seen too many nut cases (no, I am not referring to you) who just love
> to jump and tattle to ISPs and mail services. This thread is crossposted to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ISP service, since she resides where there is only one service. Again, there
> are those in m.h.a. who supported that action.

I don't have a problem if someone "tattles" to an ISP about someone else *as
long as it is a legit complaint*.

I don't know what NG you are reading this in, I assume it's not MCFL, but I
know that Joel has been asked repeatedly to stop crossposting and posting
off topic among other things. He cocks an attitude and refuses to go along
with everyone else in the NG.

I am not saying that *I* would turn him in, but I sure wouldn't feel sorry
for him if someone else did.

Until about 2 years ago, I top posted. All of a sudden I caught hell for
doing it. I researched top posting and discovered that it is widely frowned
upon, so I changed to please everyone, eventhough I still prefer top posting
and think that it is better.

Maybe Joel needs to just give in and go with the flow (as I have said
before) then we can get back to picking on Rod Speed...
Rod Speed - 26 Dec 2004 07:09 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> upon, so I changed to please everyone, eventhough I still prefer top posting
> and think that it is better.

Wota terminal fuckwit.
Mark Probert - 26 Dec 2004 16:49 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Sorry, my opinion differs...

No need to apologize. However, you should realize that thee are different
cultures in various newsgroups and perhaps look to see where the posts are
going.

> > I have seen too many nut cases (no, I am not referring to you) who just
> love
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> I don't have a problem if someone "tattles" to an ISP about someone else *as
> long as it is a legit complaint*.

I do, depending on what constitutes the complaint. All legitimate complaints
are not created equally, and, the response to them should be reflective of
the issue. Thus, a clearly criminal action with significan trisk of
immediate hard does qulaify for a complaint to the ISP. However, other
things which may violate someone's sense of right and wrong need not
necessarily result in a complaint. For example, Jan Drew, in mha, whined to
one of the mail providers (Yahoo or Hotmail) about Joel taunting her be
posting with her name from that mail provider. When I was being impersonated
by a Noni-juice salescreep or other people, I use words to respond and put
them where they belong.

AFAIAC, in the free marketplace of ideas, words are the best response to
words. If someone does not like a persons posting habits, etc. then they can
killfile them in their newsreader. If they cannot figure out how to
configure their newsreader, I am certain that they can find out.

> I don't know what NG you are reading this in, I assume it's not MCFL,

Correctamundo. I post from misc.health.alternative.

but I
> know that Joel has been asked repeatedly to stop crossposting and posting
> off topic among other things. He cocks an attitude and refuses to go along
> with everyone else in the NG.

So what? Killfile him if you do not like it. If someone persists in
responding to him, then killfile them. I assume that your newsreader has a
"NEXT" button which can be also used.

> I am not saying that *I* would turn him in, but I sure wouldn't feel sorry
> for him if someone else did.

I would be outraged if someone did for what you say are his "crimes." I read
the original post in this thread, and clearly both newsgroups do have a
colorable insterest in the topic.

> Until about 2 years ago, I top posted. All of a sudden I caught hell for
> doing it. I researched top posting and discovered that it is widely frowned
> upon, so I changed to please everyone, eventhough I still prefer top posting
> and think that it is better.

Irrelevant. As I said above, all complaints are not created equally. Whether
you top, bottom or inline post, your right to express yourself should not be
determined by location. If the whiners who complained did not like whefre
you posted, then they could killfile you or use their next button. Whining
is, IMNSHO, easier for some people than dealing with differences.

> Maybe Joel needs to just give in and go with the flow (as I have said
> before) then we can get back to picking on Rod Speed...

Pick on who you like and do not expect rigid conformity. If anyone wants
rules so strictly followed, then a moderated group is their answer. If that
is too much work for the whiners, then they have the options of a killfile
or next button.
Chuck - 26 Dec 2004 17:44 GMT
<Reply inline>

<snip>

> AFAIAC, in the free marketplace of ideas, words are the best response to
> words. If someone does not like a persons posting habits, etc. then they can
> killfile them in their newsreader. If they cannot figure out how to
> configure their newsreader, I am certain that they can find out.

Yea, but by killfiling, he is still posting crap that numorous people here
have asked him to PLEASE stop posting, therefore taking up bandwidth. If
everyone got killfiled, just think what the NG's would look like!

<snip>
> I would be outraged if someone did for what you say are his "crimes." I read
> the original post in this thread, and clearly both newsgroups do have a
> colorable insterest in the topic.

Guess our opinion differs again. His dental posts would half way fall under
your health NG, but I, as well am many others, don't see where it falls
under the frugal NG's. If we wanted to know about the new dental procedures,
we would subscribe to a dental NG. Joel clearly posts *consistantly* off
topic and *consistantly* crossposts. Again, this has been brought to Joel's
attention quite a few times.

> > Until about 2 years ago, I top posted. All of a sudden I caught hell for
> > doing it. I researched top posting and discovered that it is widely
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> you posted, then they could killfile you or use their next button. Whining
> is, IMNSHO, easier for some people than dealing with differences.

My point was that after people brought to my attention that they didn't like
what I was doing, I changed to conform to their wishes. If only one or two
people had whinned, I might have ignored the request, but there were quite a
few people that got involved in the thread, and almost all of them disagreed
with my opinion. So I was *considerate* enough and enjoyed the NG enough
that I didn't want to make people mad at me, so I changed my posting style
to suite the rest of the NG.

> > Maybe Joel needs to just give in and go with the flow (as I have said
> > before) then we can get back to picking on Rod Speed...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> is too much work for the whiners, then they have the options of a killfile
> or next button.

So, if someone gets into your health NG and bombards it with pornography
using attached files, you wouldn't say anything or turn them in to their
ISP?
Serendipity - 27 Dec 2004 11:58 GMT
> <Reply inline>
>
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> using attached files, you wouldn't say anything or turn them in to their
> ISP?

The thing is, you *have* the choice whether or not to respond to such
posters.  Complaining on the ng only serves to give that poster what
they want - attention.  It also clogs up the ng with undesirable and OT
posts.  IMO, it is more effective to keep your mouth shut, do whatever
complaining against the offending person you want WITHOUT the grandois
announcements that "I'm killfiling you" or "I'm turning you into your
ISP".  Just do it and get on with life!  Or, learn to ignore such an
insignificant speck and give the attention they deserve.  My 2 cents,
now back to issues of frugality.
Chuck - 27 Dec 2004 13:35 GMT
> > <Reply inline>
> >
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
> insignificant speck and give the attention they deserve.  My 2 cents,
> now back to issues of frugality.

I jumped into this thread (I was *not* the OP) because I wanted to be nice
(and I think that I have been nice through out this thread) and inform Joel
that quite a few people are sick of his crap. He comes back with his stupid
replies as normal.

In pops Mark with his 2 cents claiming that I threatened Joel then has to
twist his own words around to try to prove me wrong.

I agree with you. I wouldn't waste my time to announce that I'm going to
killfile (as I have Rod Speed and Milky Why) or complain to an ISP, unless I
am doing that as a warning before hand.

Joel has done the smart thing and backed out of this thread, but he still
continues to make an a.s of himself in other threads. Mark is the one that
keeps this thread alive...
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 14:09 GMT
Chuck, please stop cross-posting.
We are tired of asking you nicely.

Joel

>I jumped into this thread (I was *not* the OP) because I wanted to be nice
>(and I think that I have been nice through out this thread) and inform Joel
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>continues to make an a.s of himself in other threads. Mark is the one that
>keeps this thread alive...
Chuck - 27 Dec 2004 14:28 GMT
> Chuck, please stop cross-posting.
> We are tired of asking you nicely.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> >continues to make an a.s of himself in other threads. Mark is the one that
> >keeps this thread alive...

Still making an as of himself...
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 15:00 GMT
As WHAT, Chuck?

Joel

>> Chuck, please stop cross-posting.
>> We are tired of asking you nicely.
>>
>> Joel

>Still making an as of himself...
W_B - 27 Dec 2004 20:33 GMT
>Still making an as of himself...

Look in the mirror.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 28 Dec 2004 00:06 GMT
>>Still making an as of himself...
>
>Look in the mirror.

I think this is a case where you use the word "LIKE" not as.

Still making a LIKE of himself sounds better than making an as.
Robert  Morien - 27 Dec 2004 21:59 GMT
> The thing is, you *have* the choice whether or not to respond to such
> posters.  Complaining on the ng only serves to give that poster what
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> insignificant speck and give the attention they deserve.  My 2 cents,
> now back to issues of frugality.

But then we can't keep them so busy that they forget to take their meds
and then play in the street...isn't that just the attention they deserve?
Mark Probert - 27 Dec 2004 14:56 GMT
> <Reply inline>
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> have asked him to PLEASE stop posting, therefore taking up bandwidth. If
> everyone got killfiled, just think what the NG's would look like!

Strawman X2. Many people are now on DSL or Cable, and bandwidth is no longer
a concern. For those who are not, a newsreader can be configured to not
download, thus, no bandwidth usage.

Second, if people cannot see who is posting, and use their next button, then
it is their problem, not the posters problem. MHA has several regular
posters who I routinely skip when I see their names. I have no problem doing
it.

Like I said earlier, I have seen all the arguments for whining to ISPs, and
they are all bunk. AFAIAC, the whiners should grow up and learn how to deal
with these people.

> <snip>
> > I would be outraged if someone did for what you say are his "crimes." I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> your health NG, but I, as well am many others, don't see where it falls
> under the frugal NG's.

Like I said, the original post may have been of interest to those in MCFL
since it dealth with a topic that seemed to fall into both areas.

> If we wanted to know about the new dental procedures,
> we would subscribe to a dental NG.

Exactly how do you know that the aritcle was not of interest to others in
MCFL?

Joel clearly posts *consistantly* off
> topic and *consistantly* crossposts. Again, this has been brought to Joel's
> attention quite a few times.

And, usenet is a wide open place, where people post off topic all the time.
MHA gets some real beauties. Deal weith them by ignoring, killfiling, or
addressing them with words and ideas.

> > > Until about 2 years ago, I top posted. All of a sudden I caught hell for
> > > doing it. I researched top posting and discovered that it is widely
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> My point was that after people brought to my attention that they didn't like
> what I was doing, I changed to conform to their wishes.

Some people are not into conformity. Usenet allows for that, and SHOULD
allow for that.

If only one or two
> people had whinned, I might have ignored the request, but there were quite a
> few people that got involved in the thread, and almost all of them disagreed
> with my opinion. So I was *considerate* enough and enjoyed the NG enough
> that I didn't want to make people mad at me, so I changed my posting style
> to suite the rest of the NG.

Frankly, I do not care how many people whine over such trivial matters.

> > > Maybe Joel needs to just give in and go with the flow (as I have said
> > > before) then we can get back to picking on Rod Speed...
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> using attached files, you wouldn't say anything or turn them in to their
> ISP?

In that case, I would set a filter to block them, assuming that I had not
already done so. If I could not filter, then I would use my well-worn 'NEXT'
button, or just skip them.
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 15:03 GMT
TOP POST HERE

I agree Mark. If someone does not want to read it, there is no test.
If there is a test, this will not be on the test.

Years ago, they used to beat up on people who violated a newsgroup's
prohibition against have more than four lines per one's sig.

NET NAZIs are still at work.

Joel

>Strawman X2. Many people are now on DSL or Cable, and bandwidth is no longer
>a concern. For those who are not, a newsreader can be configured to not
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>> <snip
Robert  Morien - 27 Dec 2004 19:35 GMT
> TOP POST HERE
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Joel

.... ..-. -. .- --.- -... / ...- -.-- / .- -. -- ...- / ...- .- / ....
.- / ... ...- -.-- .-. --. --. -... / ...- .- --.- ...- .--. -. / .--.
..- .-. / ...- -.-- / ... ...- -.-- .-. --. --. -... / / / .-. .--. .--.
.-. --.- .-. .- -- -. / ..--.. / / ..--.. / / ..--.. / / -. / --.. .-.
.- -... / .--. ..- .-. / ..-. --. ...- -. --. .-. / ...- .- .. ...- --.
-. .- --.- -... -.-- ...- / -. -.-- -.-- -. / .. -... ..-. --. . -. / .
...- .... .- ...- -... .- .-. / --- ...- -. .- .--. -. / -.-- -... .--.
-. -.-- .-. / --.- ...- / ..-. .... -.-. . .-. --.. -. .--. .-..
Joel M. Eichen - 28 Dec 2004 00:03 GMT
>> TOP POST HERE
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>> Joel

Its not exactly Morse Code Robert. My Enigma machine is down ,,, can
you give me a hint?

Joel

>.... ..-. -. .- --.- -... / ...- -.-- / .- -. -- ...- / ...- .- / ....
>.- / ... ...- -.-- .-. --. --. -... / ...- .- --.- ...- .--. -. / .--.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>...- .... .- ...- -... .- .-. / --- ...- -. .- .--. -. / -.-- -... .--.
>-. -.-- .-. / --.- ...- / ..-. .... -.-. . .-. --.. -. .--. .-..
Robert  Morien - 28 Dec 2004 05:34 GMT
> >> TOP POST HERE
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> >...- .... .- ...- -... .- .-. / --- ...- -. .- .--. -. / -.-- -... .--.
> >-. -.-- .-. / --.- ...- / ..-. .... -.-. . .-. --.. -. .--. .-..

If you had an Enigma machine you wouldn't need to practice dentistry.
suzn - 29 Dec 2004 17:08 GMT
>[> .... ..-. -. .- --.- -... / ...- -.-- / .- -. -- ...- / ...- .- / ....
> .- / ... ...- -.-- .-. --. --. -... / ...- .- --.- ...- .--. -. / .--.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> ...- .... .- ...- -... .- .-. / --- ...- -. .- .--. -. / -.-- -... .--.
> -. -.-- .-. / --.- ...- / ..-. .... -.-. . .-. --.. -. .--. .-..

What is this crap you keep posting?
Mark Probert - 29 Dec 2004 17:10 GMT
> >[> .... ..-. -. .- --.- -... / ...- -.-- / .- -. -- ...- / ...- .- / ....
> > .- / ... ...- -.-- .-. --. --. -... / ...- .- --.- ...- .--. -. / .--.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> What is this crap you keep posting?

Morse Code.
Chuck - 27 Dec 2004 16:37 GMT
Bye Mark...
Mark Probert - 27 Dec 2004 16:58 GMT
> Bye Mark...

?
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 17:28 GMT
>> Bye Mark...
>
>?

He knows Mark Tarka ........

("What does this have to do with dentistry," Mark Tarka.)
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 17:27 GMT
>Bye Mark...

Chuck, why you still cross-posting ....? I thought we told ya .......

Joel
Jan - 26 Dec 2004 19:16 GMT
>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
>From: "Mark Probert" MarkProbert@lumbercartel.com
>Date: 12/26/2004 8:49 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <U_Bzd.5569$%15.2285@fe08.lga

Mark unblocked since I dsiscovered the setup between him and Nidiffer spreading
lies on smd.

>> <snip>

>I stated that even bringing it up is a threat, and I maintain that
>> position.
>> > It is clear that it is my O P I N I O N.

>> Sorry, my opinion differs...

>No need to apologize. However, you should realize that thee are different
>cultures in various newsgroups and perhaps look to see where the posts are
>going.

>> I have seen too many nut cases (no, I am not referring to you) who just
>> love
>> > to jump and tattle to ISPs and mail services. This thread is crossposted
>> to
>> > misc.health.alternative where a Jan Drew posts, and she tattled on
Jan Drew posts, and she tattled on Joel
>> > instead of dealing with it.

Drop the word tattled.

I did deal with it.

Joel was impersonating me and crossposting to newsgroups I never heard of, then
signing my name.

Therefore when one does a search on jdrew63929, his stupid posts are included.

I dealt with it by sending the posts with his very own words.

I was given the run around, but I presisted, had to even send in a pic of my
driver licenses to prove I was the real Jan Drew.

His account was closed based on HIS words sent with full headers.

Then he crossed the line again, and based on the above, it was closed also.

Mark defends Joel because liars stick together.

> Another poster, from outside of the US was tattled on and this affected
> her ISP service,

Drop the word tattled, you child.

Truth is she received a warning.

Further truth is, she was way out of line.

She was also paranoid from a very bad exprience from her former husband.

Mark knows nothing about this, however she confided in me, and I can see why
she sometimes flips out and goes over board.

That is however no excuse for the lies she told.

>since she resides where there is only one service. Again, there are those in
m.h.a. who supported that action.

Yes, I never support lies being told about others.

>> I don't have a problem if someone "tattles" to an ISP about someone else
>*as  long as it is a legit complaint*.

>I do, depending on what constitutes the complaint. All legitimate complaints
>are not created equally, and, the response to them should be reflective of
>the issue. Thus, a clearly criminal action with significan trisk of
>immediate hard does qulaify for a>complaint to the ISP

Correct.

>However, other
>things which may violate someone's sense of right and wrong need not
>necessarily result in a complaint.

The ISP decides based on the offending parties own words.

<snip repeated>

>but I
>> know that Joel has been asked repeatedly to stop crossposting and posting
off topic among other things. He cocks an attitude and refuses to go along
>> with everyone else in the NG.

>So what?

So HE should CHANGE his behavior.

Even his peers don't like it.

<snip Mar's attempt to blame everyone except Joel>

> I am not saying that *I* would turn him in, but I sure wouldn't feel sorry
>> for him if someone else did.

>I would be outraged if someone did for what you say are his "crimes

Poor Mark, let's end this right here and now:

From: "Marla Maples" <marla_map...@hotmail.com>
To: i...@san.rr.com
Subject: Listserv?
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 06:50:44 -0800
Good morning!
I am a woman who was harmed by breast implants. I had them removed, but I am
still sick with FM and CFS.
I read the newsgroup where you are medciless atacked. I feel so sorry for
you.
I see that you have a support listserv. Can I sign up? That way, I can avoid
reading all that horrible stuff.
Marla Maples
Medford, OR

This is Mark's style, that's how he get himself in trouble, then blames
everyone but himself.

Jan

Always Putting the Blame on Others. For some people, the first reaction to a
problem is to find someone to blame. Blaming is a defense mechanism to avoid
taking personal responsibility for the situation. The blamer rapidly finds
fault in the other person and criticizes them. Trying to find a solution to the
problem is much better than looking for someone to blame. Blaming is a pattern
in some families that keeps people from becoming closer. People who blame
others or situations without taking responsibility for their contribution to
the problem never get the sense of satisfaction of growth. By refusing to see
their own errors, they lose the opportunity to change the very aspects of
themselves that keep them stuck.
Joel M. Eichen - 26 Dec 2004 20:06 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
>>From: "Mark Probert" MarkProbert@lumbercartel.com
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>>> <snip>

Jan did you add your mercury stuff here yet?

Joel

http://tinyurl.com/5aqyn

>>I stated that even bringing it up is a threat, and I maintain that
>>> position.
[quoted text clipped - 122 lines]
>their own errors, they lose the opportunity to change the very aspects of
>themselves that keep them stuck.
Serendipity - 25 Dec 2004 13:20 GMT
>>>>>Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
>>>>>apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to cross
> post in.

Well, he's not exactly the shining star of MCFL either ;)  BTW, have you
guys tried twit filters?  It's a lot easier to use that read his
nonsense.  A very frugal solution, I might add.

> You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or
> whoever you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> People will not hesitate to turn you in and have you terminated. Trust me, I
> have seen it many times...

Perhaps it is time to lauch the LARTs.  Have fun :)

> --------------
>
> AFAIAC, even bringing it up is a threat.
>
> If someone does not like another person's post, use the freakin' next button
> or learn how to use a newsreader.
Mark Probert - 25 Dec 2004 21:00 GMT
> >>>>>Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> >>>>>apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> guys tried twit filters?  It's a lot easier to use that read his
> nonsense.  A very frugal solution, I might add.

I do not bother with a killfile. I read who I want and use my next button.
What annoys me are those people who need to tattle like a kid instead of
merely moving on or killfiling. Personally, I think that they are more
childish than those they whine about.

> > You may want to read the terms and agreement section from your ISP or
> > whoever you are posting through. You can be terminated from that service or
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > If someone does not like another person's post, use the freakin' next button
> > or learn how to use a newsreader.
Bob Ward - 24 Dec 2004 21:51 GMT
>> > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
>> > > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Who threatened to turn anyone in??????

Right up there...

>> > As far as what the remaining 4 groups he may end up crossposting to,
>> > let's just say he may not like what those are since I may just
>> > choose them for him if he continues on his current path.
Chuck - 24 Dec 2004 22:33 GMT
> >> > > Joel, wake up and smell the roses. You are very disliked in MCSL and
> >> > > apparently in SMD also. Now you have actually added a 3rd group to
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Right up there...

"Cite" it Bobby boy... Pinpoint it for me because I sure don't see it...
Jan - 25 Dec 2004 01:18 GMT
>From: "Chuck" chuck@host.invalid
>Date: 12/24/2004 2:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <%O0zd.6258$iC4.1792@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com>

>"Cite" it Bobby boy... Pinpoint it for me because I sure don't see it...

He can't just like the many times it has happened by those who lie and twist,
we just saw an example of that by Steve Mancuso on smd, who got caught in his
own trap, then told lie after lie, trying to redeem himself.

The hole he dug got deeper and deeper.

Jan
Jan - 25 Dec 2004 01:14 GMT
>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
>From: "Chuck" chuck@host.invalid
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
>Who threatened to turn anyone in??????

This is just another example of Mark Probert's *twisting*

Actually the whole *gang* does it.

Jan
dogsnus - 25 Dec 2004 14:55 GMT
.

> Why do these net-Fascists have to resort to threatening to turn people
> in when all they need to do is learn how to use their newsreaders or the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> excuse from the net-Fascists to justify their actions. None of them have
> impressed me.

You may want to read a bit more for comprehension. Not once have I
ever threatened to turn Joel in for anything.I think that's pretty
chicken and in fact,someone else here did once and I lodged my verbal
protest about it.

Terri

Signature

And puhlease - stop with the eating of two-dimensional things! You'l put an
uvula out!
Dave Delaney-ARK

Mark Probert - 25 Dec 2004 15:04 GMT
> .
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Terri

My comments were not directed at you. Apologies for any misconception. Jan
Drew of mha routinely reports people she does not like. Ilena Rosenthal
(look her up) contacts wives (like mine).

As a recipient of abusive behavior, I am well aware of the problems and in
no way intended to imply that you were such a person.

Again, my apologies.
dogsnus - 25 Dec 2004 20:56 GMT
> My comments were not directed at you. Apologies for any misconception.

Fahgeddabout. Waves hand around...No harm done.
Jan Drew of mha routinely reports people she does not like. Ilena Rosenthal
> (look her up) contacts wives (like mine).

Wait,wait.You lost me here,unless you meant to tell me that you've got
a poster there who contacts your wife? To say what,that she doesn't like
you?

And another one who reports people to their ISP when she doesn't like them?

(That must give the administrators quite a chuckle.)

"Dear abuse@ISPguy,
"So and so is a big mean doody head and I don't like them."
"Please revoke their service".
"Also,I'm pretty sure they don't wear any pants when posting".

> As a recipient of abusive behavior, I am well aware of the problems and in
> no way intended to imply that you were such a person.

Fangu,she says with a stuffed up head and subsequent vocal inflection.

Terri
Signature

And puhlease - stop with the eating of two-dimensional things! You'l put an
uvula out!
Dave Delaney-ARK

Mark Probert - 25 Dec 2004 21:06 GMT
> > My comments were not directed at you. Apologies for any misconception.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> a poster there who contacts your wife? To say what,that she doesn't like
> you?

Yes. In fact, she contacted my wife, and another fellows wife, and denied
that her intent was to stifle our participation.

The emails can be forwarded to you.

> And another one who reports people to their ISP when she doesn't like them?

Well, she whines anytime she thinks she can get someone's service cut. She
complained about Joel when he posted as her, even though it was obvious. I
have had people impersonate me in an attempt to discredit me. I use words,
not whines, to respond.

> (That must give the administrators quite a chuckle.)
>
> "Dear abuse@ISPguy,
> "So and so is a big mean doody head and I don't like them."
> "Please revoke their service".
> "Also,I'm pretty sure they don't wear any pants when posting".

You must be omnicient! Jan has been known to complain about one m.h.a
particpant running nude hikes in Hawaii.
Rod Speed - 25 Dec 2004 21:15 GMT
>> (That must give the administrators quite a chuckle.)

>> "Dear abuse@ISPguy,
>> "So and so is a big mean doody head and I don't like them."
>> "Please revoke their service".
>> "Also,I'm pretty sure they don't wear any pants when posting".

> You must be omnicient! Jan has been known to complain
> about one m.h.a particpant running nude hikes in Hawaii.

Quite right too. Some of the wildlife could burst sumfin.
Jan - 25 Dec 2004 22:57 GMT
>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
>From: dogsnus dogsnus@micron.net
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Fahgeddabout. Waves hand around...No harm done.
>Jan Drew of mha routinely reports people she does not like

Mark lies again. Joel Echen lost his account because of *impersonation* and
another when he crossed the line.

His wife recently privately e-mailed *me* she had ABSOLUTELY no reason to do
so. Since she stated she and Mark share everythuig, she KNEW my request of no
private e-mails, as I believe eveything said can be out in the open. She also
knew Mark had privately e-mailed me several times using different names.I
repeatedly ask hime to stop.

Mark Probert is a liar.

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 25 Dec 2004 23:07 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Frugal Medical Clinic to close ........  (Crossposted 3 groups)
>>From: dogsnus dogsnus@micron.net
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Mark lies again. Joel Echen lost his account because of *impersonation* and
>another when he crossed the line.

Its was when Johnny Cash sung, "Because your mine ... I walk the
line."

>His wife recently privately e-mailed *me* she had ABSOLUTELY no reason to do
>so. Since she stated she and Mark share everythuig, she KNEW my request of no
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Jan
Robert  Morien - 24 Dec 2004 06:06 GMT
> >The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
> >CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
> >the smell it leaves behind you.
>
> This guy has a certain way with words .....

Flattery from someone that would sh.t in their own nest can only mean
that your mother and father were extemely close relatives before they
bred you.
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 13:07 GMT
>> >The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
>> >CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>that your mother and father were extemely close relatives before they
>bred you.

How many times need we remind you to please stop cross-posting?

Joel
Robert Morein - 24 Dec 2004 06:17 GMT
This is a forgery.
Anyone can call me at (215) 646-4894, and I'll speak to you personally.

> >The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
> >CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
[quoted text clipped - 225 lines]
> >> >doing?' But they won't give up on him. There's a lot of people in
> >> >Vineland who won't give up on him."
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 13:09 GMT
Sorry for the x-post, but I do not know where this originates from.
What part is a forgery?

Joel

>This is a forgery.
>Anyone can call me at (215) 646-4894, and I'll speak to you personally.
>
>> >The fact that you have to ask, plus the fact that you use the word
>> >CENSOR proves that you are incapable of noticing the sh.t on your a.s or
>> >the smell it leaves behind you.

Rate this thread: