Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004
Entitled: My Mercury Story
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Jan - 22 Dec 2004 06:17 GMT http://herballure.com/Downloads/MyMercuryStory.pdf
Rich - 22 Dec 2004 07:18 GMT
>>>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a >>>dentist (alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They [quoted text clipped - 170 lines] > >Rich clintonz@prodigy.net - 22 Dec 2004 11:06 GMT Rich, you moron. There is no upper limit on the methlyization or leakage that can occur from ONE filling. If Jan had only one filling removed and recovered while others where still in that doesn't prove crap (what you contend).
The same thing happened to me. I felt better in the weeks and month following the removal of two adjacent fillings even while three others where still in. that's because one of those two broke down and was "leaking" more than the others probably with a fair degree of mehtyliztion condsideing the amount of decay near the top surface. The amount of Hg I got from a safe drilling was insignificant to the load produced by those 1 or two fillings.
What do you think the upper limit is on Hg release and Mtheylization from one filling, taking all concievable factors (condensing, galvanisim, etc?)
Joel M. Eichen - 22 Dec 2004 12:56 GMT >The same thing happened to me. I felt better in the weeks and month >following the removal of two adjacent fillings even while three others where >still in. REPLY
YUP, I feel better ,,, sounds like a scienfic study in the making ......
JAN. Where are you? Can we get a link to that please?
Joel
ChuckMSRD - 22 Dec 2004 13:06 GMT Thanks Jan, my story is sent.
http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html
Joel M. Eichen - 22 Dec 2004 13:21 GMT >Thanks Jan, my story is sent. SENT how far?
Joel
>http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html Joel M. Eichen - 22 Dec 2004 13:26 GMT >Thanks Jan, my story is sent. > >http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html Any link to purchase the book or the DVD?
Joel
Tony Bad - 22 Dec 2004 16:23 GMT > Thanks Jan, my story is sent. > > http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html Disappointed to see you party to this foolishness. As someone with scientific credentials are you really willing to accept the report that...
"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is a major, if not primary cause of cancer, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, depression, birth defects, Altzheimer's, and numerous other immune and neurological diseases."
Should we expect eradication of these conditions as amalgam use declines? How to account for people who develop these illnesses yet have no amalgam fillings? Have you followed the claimed link between autism and mercury containing preservatives? Since these preservatives have been removed, there has been no change in rates of autism.
T
Joel M. Eichen - 22 Dec 2004 17:13 GMT >> Thanks Jan, my story is sent. >> >> http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html > >Disappointed to see you party to this foolishness. As someone with scientific >credentials are you really willing to accept the report that... Conversely, I loved it.
Good laughs are hard to find these days .....
Joel
>"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is a >major, if not primary cause of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >T clintonz@prodigy.net - 22 Dec 2004 17:39 GMT > "ChuckMSRD" <chuckmsrd@aol.com> wrote in message
> "It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is a > major, if not primary cause of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > How to account for people who develop these illnesses yet have no amalgam fillings?
that's true. Those without amalgam have virtually no Hg exposure at all!
I'm not saying Hg does or doesn't cause alzheimers but are you saying you have a large study with a control group that doesn't have amalgam or any other known Hg exposure and does have the same rates of alzheimer's?
> Have you followed the claimed link between autism and mercury containing > preservatives? Since these preservatives have been removed, there has been no > change in rates of autism. I know that the CA rate did go down one or two years ago. Do you have a link to that data?
Jan - 22 Dec 2004 23:11 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: "Tony Bad" spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Disappointed to see you party to this foolishness OMG!!!!
>"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is >a >major, if not primary cause of >cancer, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, >depression, birth defects, Altzheimer's, >and numerous other immune and neurological diseases." Correct!
<snip>
>Have you followed the claimed link between autism and mercury containing >preservatives? Yes.
Have you?
>Since these preservatives have been removed, there has been no >change in rates of autism. They have ALL been removed, furthermore we now (thanks to dentists) have more and more mercury in the food chain.
Jan
ChuckMSRD - 23 Dec 2004 01:43 GMT >Disappointed to see you party to this foolishness.
>"Tony Bad" The only thing I am "party" to is getting my story out and continueing to help those that I can. I have had numerous contacts who have, *gasp*, benefited from mercury detoxification, regardless of the original source. If you were not wrapped up in what most Dentist's are, in other words total CYA, you would be open to the fact that every human being and therefore everyones ability at detoxification is different. Some *do* have ill effects from chronic vapor release from amalgam, while others can luckily systemically clear it without major visible problem. It is not as black and white as you paint it in my opinion.
Chuck
clintonz@prodigy.net - 23 Dec 2004 02:15 GMT Comment: This point is worth repeating since many anti/amalgamists and pro/amalgamists do not seem to give weight to this issue (which may be why amalgam use has got as far as it has).
If you look closely you will see that no scientific group/ even the ADA argues with the fact that there is tremendous variation in the Hg exposure due to amalgams. In other words Joe might receive 3 ug per day .1% methylated while Bob might receive 100ug 3% which is methylated, even if they have the same number of amalgams.
That doesn't mean that the average amount isn't a relatively large amount.
By the way, my Dad who works for the FDA didn't really think amalgam was a problem when I first brought it up. Then one year later he had two or three large amalgam buildups removed and replaced with crowns. 6 months later he said to me-- you know what, this is the first winter in three years I haven't gotten sick!
Rich - 23 Dec 2004 02:24 GMT >y the way, my Dad who works for the FDA didn't really think amalgam >was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >to me-- you know what, this is the first winter in three years I >haven't gotten sick! Logical fallacy: Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not imply causation.
Aloha,
Rich
Dr. Steve - 24 Dec 2004 01:28 GMT >>y the way, my Dad who works for the FDA didn't really think amalgam >>was [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Rich Well, right now I have a severe cold. It began with some flu-like symptoms. I do not have any amalgam in my mouth. therefore, amalgam protects use from illness. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 05:00 GMT >From: Dr. Steve Richard H Jacobson is a known and proven, liar, cyberstalker, with a repeated pattern of badgering.
Steve eats it up.
Then adds to it.
Birds of a feather.
Jan
Richard's posts correlated with his behavior and pattern and is why he nuked them.
Rich - 24 Dec 2004 05:43 GMT >Richard H Jacobson is Is this thread about Richard H. Jacobson?? Poor Jan. I exposed her lie about having mercury poisoning and she is foaming at the mouth.
Aloha,
Rich
W_B - 24 Dec 2004 19:25 GMT >>Richard H Jacobson is > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Rich Rabid, eh ?
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 24 Dec 2004 18:21 GMT >>Logical fallacy: Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Correlation does not >>imply causation. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >.. >Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Cats are mortal. Socrates was mortal.
Therefore, Socrates was a cat.
Sophistry.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
clintonz@prodigy.net - 24 Dec 2004 18:35 GMT I had an ear infection. The doctor prescribed antiobiotics and it went away. I don't believe antiboitics can prevent ear infections, therefore this must have been coincidence because correlation dosen't prove causation.
I had a cough and took cough medicine. The cough went away. The ada tells me cough medicine works therefore I conclude the cough medicine cured the cough.
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 22:36 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: clintonz@prodigy.net [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >tells me cough medicine works therefore I conclude the cough medicine >cured the cough. The correlation dosen't prove causation.
Is used by those who deny real diseases, and is pat reply # 789876557789
Jan
Tony Bad - 23 Dec 2004 03:11 GMT > >Disappointed to see you party to this foolishness. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Chuck I am sick of this CYA theory that seems to infiltrate every conversation of this sort. Is the theory that I'd rather knowingly poison people, including myself or my family then admit dental amalgam is a danger? If so, I am sorry I gave you credit for being a reasoned thinker. If not, please explain what this CYA theory means. Did it ever cross your mind that this has nothing to do with my a.s, and more to do with reaching a conclusion different from yours? Why does the fact I disagree with you have to be a function of stupidity or ego? I have no concerns about my a.s being covered, because I am highly confident that my a.s is in no danger.
What you are "party" to, is posting your story at a site that misleads people. Is that what you want to be a part of? Is bullshit the "truth" you want disseminated? Since you glossed over it, here is the message that is one of the first people will see when they come to the site at issue:
"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is a major, if not primary cause of cancer, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, depression, birth defects, Altzheimer's, and numerous other immune and neurological diseases."
I have been witness to the emotional and economic damage such bullshit can lead to. I have no issue with you getting your story out there, although I am uncertain I agree with your conclusions, but why link it to a misleading site like this one?
T
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 06:53 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: "Tony Bad" spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I am sick You would have a clue as to what sick is, if you had mercury poisoning.
<snip anger>
>What you are "party" to, is posting your story at a site that misleads >people. Wrong, the msileading comes from organized dentistry and the *I-don't-want-to-be-informed-atitude*
>"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is >a major, if not primary cause of >cancer, multiple sclerosis, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, >depression, >birth defects, Altzheimer's, >and numerous other immune and neurological diseases." Correct.
Do some research.
http://www.altcorp.com/dentalinformation/cancerwarnings.htm
http://www.trivalleyherald.com/Stories/0,1413,86%257E10669%257E1052642,00.html
A new warning sign will show up in dentists' offices statewide in early 2003, letting patients know their visit may entail exposure to mercury and cancer-causing chemicals.
http://www.mgoldmandds.com/cancer.htm
http://www.edelsoncenter.com/Mercury/mercury_immunological_effects.htm
All types of cells showed a dose dependent reduction in glutathione levels when exposed to mercury. Mercury from amalgams has been shown to interfere with the production of cytokines, disabling early control of viruses and leading to enhanced infection. Mercury by its effect of weakening of the immune system has show that it contributes to the increased incidence of chronic diseases including cancer.
http://tinyurl.com/6r7h8
http://www.ephca.com/mult_scl.htm
(surprise, surprise, it disappeared)
Multiple Sclerosis Multiple Sclerosis is a disease of civilized man, and, like many other diseases of our modern age, it is a disease of an overactive and misdirected immune system. The specific reasons for this are unclear, but a prominent theory relates heavy metals like mercury, lead and aluminum as the agents that might replace normal molecules in the myelin sheaths, leading to an onslaught of free radical damage which destroys the myelin sheaths, resulting in MS. In addition, the immune system now sees this tissue as foreign, because of the replacement of heavy metals, and produces antibodies which attack the myelin, leading to further damage.
"Mercury toxicity from dental fillings may directly contribute to multiple sclerosis, according to Jacqueline Fawcett, R.N., Ph.D., of the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing in Philadelphia.
Dr. Fawcett relates the case of a woman, aged 36, who was clinically diagnosed with multiple sclerosis according to magnetic resonance imaging. Her symptoms included weakness on her right side, visual disturbances, a staggered gait, fatigue, and facial numbness. When her conventional physicians gave her no hope of treatment or recovery, the woman sought alternative therapies, including acupressure, massage, and biological dentistry. She experienced major relief from all her symptoms when her mercury-amalgam dental fillings were removed, indicating that her multiple sclerosis had been produced primarily by metal toxicity."
http://www.alternativemedicine.com/digest/issue17/17047R00.shtml
http://www.cfspages.com/inout.html
http://www.adhdezine.com/Mar01.html
Mercury toxicity has been linked to a large number of medical conditions, including arthritis, altzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, fibromyalgia, lupus, chronic fatigue syndrome, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, learning disabilities and ADHD.
http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/amalgam.htm
http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/7/alzheimers_mercury.htm
http://www.altcorp.com/dentalinformation/alzheimers.htm
http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/mercuryinfo.html
http://altmedangel.com/mercury.htm
http://www.cqs.com/amalgam.htm
http://www.toxicteeth.net/natCamp_IntScene_SwedenArticle.cfm
http://www.spiritofhealing.com/articles/html/diseases_caused_by_mercury.html
ChuckMSRD - 23 Dec 2004 11:35 GMT >"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is >a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >birth defects, Altzheimer's, >and numerous other immune and neurological diseases."
>"Tony Bad" I do not agree with that at all. But IMO it is as radical as your approach that "amalgams are harmless for everyone". Withoput exception, those whom I have talked to who have suffered Hg poisoning and benefitted from detox also have "chemical sensitivities". Myself included. I used to spray my weeds in the spring and clean my bathroom with harsh chemicals, and be on my merry way, up until about 7 years ago. Now I cannot do these things without being wiped out! Do you ask your patients about chemical sensitivities prior to placing amalgams? Do you note autoimmune disorders, ask if they are, or plan on becoming pregnant? Consider alternatives to amalgam if any of the above are true? Amalgam does increase systemic Hg burden and these things should be considered. Is that so radical? Do no harm, right? Both sides; "amalgams are harmless for every single human being" and "amalgam is the "cause of most disease on the planet", are both radical and false in my opinion.
Chuck
Tony Bad - 23 Dec 2004 13:49 GMT > I do not agree with that at all. But IMO it is as radical as your approach that > "amalgams are harmless for everyone". Withoput exception, those whom I have [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Chuck Your last point is a fair one, but I am not sure where you get the safe for everyone concept. I take a thorough medical history, which covers the issues you mention, and treat patients according to their needs and concerns. I do, however, feel your quote is misleading. I have never said "amalgams are harmless for everyone", and in fact, if one does a google search, your post is the only one containing this statement. Anyone who is a human or works with humans knows that nothing is 100% safe. I am sure that there could be adverse reactions to the chemicals and supplements you employed to effect your recovery. I realize there can be people who will have adverse reactions to things that most people can handle without incident, but what do we do about it? I have seen people with real or claimed sensitivity to virtually every material and medication. Teaching people these things can and do occur is wise, seeking to ban anything that can negatively impact some, no matter how small the rate of adverse reaction may be, is unwise in my opinion.
T
ChuckMSRD - 23 Dec 2004 19:09 GMT > I take a thorough medical history, which covers the issues >you >mention
>T Bad That is fair and all that I would ask. I am sure that I would be much more hestitant in using amalgams in various populations beyond our discussion. I would likely be a "mercury free" Dentist if I were a Dentist. You *are* a Dentist and your points are well taken. I would not hesitate to have you as my DDS as long as you keep that amalgamated crappola away from me! :-)
Happy Holidays Chuck
Tony Bad - 23 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT > > I take a thorough medical history, which covers the issues > >you [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Happy Holidays > Chuck A lot of patients make that same request, and I am happy to comply. This discussion, at least for me, is mainly a theory issue, as I have no personal agenda or preference. If amalgam was banned tomorrow it would have little impact on my practice.
You have a good holiday as well.
T
clintonz@prodigy.net - 23 Dec 2004 15:26 GMT > >"It is our belief that mercury poisoning from "silver" (amalgam) fillings is > >a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > spring and clean my bathroom with harsh chemicals, and be on my merry way, up > until about 7 years ago. Now I cannot do these things without being wiped out! Chuck, just throwing in my opinon but Hg posioning causes chemical sensitivy in my opinion because of how it affects the immune system, not the other way around. You probably didn't develop Hg posioning overnight and could have easily had significant exposure 7 years ago if that predates your amalgam removal. Before that time you seem to indicate no problems. The immune system uses the same defenses for all toxic chemicals and once those defenses get beaten down you are fair game for any kind of toxic exposure.
ChuckMSRD - 23 Dec 2004 19:12 GMT >Chuck, just throwing in my opinon but Hg posioning causes >chemical sensitivy in my opinion because of how it affects >the immune system, not the other way around.
>Clinton Z Fair enough Clinton and certainly a thought and theory that I have entertained. What I have a problem with in this regard is that I remain "chemically sensitive" albeit, likely to a lesser extent, while my most serious toxicity symptoms have abated and/or disappeared.
Chuck
Rich - 23 Dec 2004 18:30 GMT >Withoput exception, those whom I have >talked to who have suffered Hg poisoning and benefitted from detox also have >"chemical sensitivities". This is not surprising since both multiple sensitivity syndrome and mercury poisoning by amalgams have been strongly linked to psychiatric problems. It is hardly surprising that you have discovered such a strong correlation.
Psychol Med 2002 Nov;32(8):1387-94 Psychiatric and somatic disorders and multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) in 264 'environmental patients'. Bornschein S, Hausteiner C, Zilker T, Forstl H. Psychiatric Clinic and Department of Toxicology, I, Medical Clinic, Technical University of Munich, Germany.
BACKGROUND: An increasing number of individuals with diverse health complaints are currently seeking help in the field of environmental medicine. Multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS) or idiopathic environmental intolerances (IEI) is defined as an acquired disorder with multiple recurrent symptoms associated with environmental chemicals in low concentrations that are well tolerated by the majority of people. Their symptoms are not explained by any known psychiatric or somatic disorder.
METHOD: Within a 2-year period we examined 264 of 267 consecutive patients prospectively presenting to a university based out-patient department for environmental medicine. Patients underwent routine medical examination, toxicological analysis and the structured clinical interview for DSM-IV psychiatric disorders (SCID).
RESULTS: Seventy-five per cent of the patients met DSM-IV criteria for at least one psychiatric disorder and 35% of all patients suffered from somatoform disorders. Other frequent diagnoses were affective and anxiety disorders, and dependence or substance abuse. In 39% a psychiatric disorder, in 23% a somatic condition and in 19% a combination of the two were considered to provide sufficient explanation of the symptoms. Toxic chemicals were regarded as the most probable cause in only five cases. The suspected diagnosis of MCS/IEI could not be sustained in the vast majority of cases.
CONCLUSION: This investigation confirms previous findings that psychiatric morbidity is high in patients presenting to specialized centres for environmental medicine. Somatoform disorders are the leading diagnostic category, and there is reason to believe that certain 'environmental' or MCS patients form a special subgroup of somatoform disorders. In most cases, symptoms can be explained by well-defined psychiatric and medical conditions other than MCS, which need specific treatment. Further studies should focus on provocation testing in order to find positive criteria for MCS and on therapeutic approaches that consider psychiatric aspects.
Environ Health Perspect 2003 May;111(5):719-23 Mercury derived from dental amalgams and neuropsychologic function. Factor-Litvak P, Hasselgren G, Jacobs D, Begg M, Kline J, Geier J, Mervish N, Schoenholtz S, Graziano J. Department of Epidemiology and Department of Environmental Health Sciences, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, New York, New York, USA.
There is widespread concern regarding the safety of silver-mercury amalgam dental restorations, yet little evidence to support their harm or safety. We examined whether mercury dental amalgams are adversely associated with cognitive functioning in a cross-sectional sample of healthy working adults. We studied 550 adults, 30-49 years of age, who were not occupationally exposed to mercury. Participants were representative of employees at a major urban medical center. Each participant underwent a neuropsychologic test battery, a structured questionnaire, a modified dental examination, and collection of blood and urine samples. Mercury exposure was assessed using a) urinary mercury concentration (UHg); b) the total number of amalgam surfaces; and c) the number of occlusal amalgam surfaces. Linear regression analysis was used to estimate associations between each marker of mercury exposure and each neuropsychologic test, adjusting for potential confounding variables. Exposure levels were relatively low. The mean UHg was 1.7 micro g/g creatinine (range, 0.09-17.8); the mean total number of amalgam surfaces was 10.6 (range, 0-46) and the mean number of occlusal amalgam surfaces was 6.1 (range, 0-19). No measure of exposure was significantly associated with the scores on any neuropsychologic test in analyses that adjusted for the sampling design and other covariates. In a sample of healthy working adults, mercury exposure derived from dental amalgam restorations was not associated with any detectable deficits in cognitive or fine motor functioning.
J Oral Rehabil 2002 Aug;29(8):705-713 Multidisciplinary examination of patients with illness attributed to dental fillings.
Langworth S, Bjorkman L, Elinder CG, Jarup L, Savlin P. Department of Public Health Sciences, Division of Occupational Medicine, Karolinska Hospital and Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, Department of Odontology, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, and National Registry of Adverse Reactions to Dental Materials, Bergen, Norway, Department of Renal Medicine, Huddinge University Hospital and Karolinska Institutet, Huddinge, Sweden, Department of Epidemiology and Public Health, Imperial College School of Medicine, London, UK, and Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden, and Department of Environmental Health, Stockholm County Council, Norrbacka, Stockholm, Sweden.
Objective and methods. In 1993, a special Amalgam Clinic was established at Huddinge University Hospital. Residents in the Stockholm County area with morbidity attributed to dental fillings ('amalgam disease'), were referred to this clinic. Patients were examined by a dentist (n 428), a physician (n 379), and a psychologist (n 360). Sixty-nine per cent were women and 31% men; the mean patient age was 46 years.
Results. Oral symptoms included tender or aching teeth (60%), metallic taste (54%), sore mouth (43%) and dry mouth (43%). Signs of moderate or severe temporomandibular joint dysfunction were found in 81 cases, glossitis in 30 and oral lichen in 26 cases. Common general symptoms included diffuse pain (78%), general weakness (75%), extreme fatigue (68%) and dizziness (68%). Seven per cent of the patients suffered from previously undiagnosed medical conditions (thyroid dysfunction, anaemia, cardiopathy, renal disease, cancer). In 26 subjects, skin patch testing revealed allergy to mercury, gold or palladium. The median concentration of mercury was 10 nmol L-1 in whole blood, 3 nmol L-1 in plasma and 10 nmol L-1 in urine, i.e. normal levels. Earlier mental trauma was common, and in the psychological questionnaire SCL-90, clear tendencies to somatization were found. Only a few cases of severe psychiatric illness were observed. No positive correlation was found between the amount of amalgam and somatic symptoms or psychological effect parameters.
Conclusions. The results do not support the hypothesis that release of mercury from amalgam fillings is the cause of amalgam disease', but suggest that there may be various explanations for the patient's complaints.
cand J Work Environ Health 1997;23 Suppl 3:65-7 Experiences from the amalgam unit at Huddinge hospital --somatic and psychosomatic aspects. Langworth S. Institute of Occupational Medicine, Karolinska Institute, Huddinge University Hospital, Sweden.
The "amalgam unit" at the Huddinge University Hospital in Sweden examined 379 of 1300 patients referred for health problems which the patients related to amalgam tooth fillings. Toxicologic, clinical, odontological, and psychiatric examinations were performed. More than 30% had medical causes for their complaints; 7% had severe diseases which had been unrecognized. The most common symptoms were diffuse pain, general weakness, fatigue, headache, and difficulties in concentrating. Anxiety and depression were the most prevalent psychiatric complaints. The psychological examination revealed a high prevalence of somatization. The treatment was information about mercury and amalgam, appropriate odontological routines without removal of intact amalgam fillings, medical therapy when necessary, and strengthening of the patients' social networks. Ninety percent were satisfied with the treatment. The results indicate that there are various explanations for the complaints of patients fearing "amalgam disease". No cases of mercury intoxication were found.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 23 Dec 2004 19:13 GMT > >Withoput exception, those whom I have > >talked to who have suffered Hg poisoning and benefitted from detox also have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > psychiatric problems. It is hardly surprising that you have discovered > such a strong correlation. It's hardly surpring that Hg causes chemical sensitivities. You try posioning yourself with Hg and see what happens to you!
> Psychol Med 2002 Nov;32(8):1387-94 > Psychiatric and somatic disorders and multiple [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > are not explained by any known psychiatric > or somatic disorder. Psychology is 99% crap 1% science. Maybe the researches should be tested for psychological bias since it is so common.
> METHOD: Within a 2-year period we > examined 264 of 267 consecutive [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > structured clinical interview for DSM-IV > psychiatric disorders (SCID). Tox screens are also notoriously difficult to do. Look at that Pres in Ukraine, it took them a month to figure out he had been posioned and they still don't know why arfat died. If the guys head hadn't been puffed like a blowfish they would have told him he was crazy too.
> There is widespread concern regarding the safety > of silver-mercury amalgam dental restorations, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of employees at a major urban medical > center. I posted critiscim to this study many times.
Each participant underwent a neuropsychologic
> test battery, a structured questionnaire, a > modified dental examination, and collection of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > exposure and each neuropsychologic test, > adjusting for potential confounding variables. Impossible to adjust for cofounding variables. For one thing most adults over 30 probably have significant changes in amalgam surfaces each year due to age yet IQ and manual dexterity is well known to decrease each year over 30.
As pointed out in recent posts over and over- urine and blood tests are not reliable tests of chronic Hg body burden from amalgam. Go to a chalk board and write a 100 times - blood tests and urine tests are poor indicators of chronic Hg body burden from amalgam (espically methyl Hg). I will not post studies which use non-challenged urine tests as their primary Hg estimator.
> Exposure levels were relatively low. The mean UHg > was 1.7 micro g/g creatinine (range, 0.09-17.8); > the mean total number of amalgam surfaces was > 10.6 (range, 0-46) and the mean number of > occlusal amalgam surfaces was 6.1 (range, 0-19). See above. By the say even the EPA admits 1 in 10 people has elevated levels of Hg no matter what the source.
> No measure of exposure was significantly associated > with the scores on any neuropsychologic > test in analyses that adjusted for the sampling > design and other covariates. In a sample of healthy
> working adults, mercury exposure derived from > dental amalgam restorations was not associated > with any detectable deficits in cognitive or fine motor > functioning. In a sample of "healthy working adults". LOL. Let's take a sample of healthy people and see if they where posioned. Conclusion-non of the healthy people show signs of toxicity. Even ignoring that, a random sample of 500 doesn't have anywhere near the power to assesss effects in the top 10% exposed. Your a fool for posting this junk and pretending it proves anything.
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 01:03 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: clintonz@prodigy.net [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> mercury poisoning by amalgams have been strongly linked to >> psychiatric problems. ZZzz.
http://www.getipm.com/personal/mcs-campbell.htm
MULTIPLE CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES UNDER SIEGE
by Ann McCampbell, MD
ChuckMSRD - 24 Dec 2004 12:17 GMT >http://www.getipm.com/personal/mcs-campbell.htm > >MULTIPLE CHEMICAL SENSITIVITIES UNDER SIEGE > >by Ann McCampbell, MD Very good read. Thats what approaches like Rich's "psychiatric label" simply do. Label the ill individual; neurotic, psychotic, lazy....... instead of being open to the good possibility that something physiologically is altered as to open up the sensitivity to chemical offenders. I know I'm sensitive because I live it. I had my carpets cleaned professionally recently. I thought, (I'm feeling good, this wont be a problem) BAM! Not fun! Chuck
Rich - 24 Dec 2004 12:58 GMT >>http://www.getipm.com/personal/mcs-campbell.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >open to the good possibility that something physiologically is altered as to >open up the sensitivity to chemical offenders. I never said that there is not something physiologic occurring that is causing the symptoms. Just because it is a psychiatric diagnosis does not mean that there are not physiologic changes. For example schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis but it is likely caused by some physiologic change or dysfunction.
It is sad that people think that having a psychiatric diagnosis is demeaning. Psychiatric problems are just as real as the non-psychiatric problems.
Cue Jan to make a gratuitous attack now that you have responded to my post.
Aloha,
Rich
I know I'm sensitive because I
>live it. I had my carpets cleaned professionally recently. I thought, (I'm >feeling good, this wont be a problem) BAM! >Not fun! >Chuck ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
ChuckMSRD - 24 Dec 2004 13:28 GMT >It is sad that people think that having a psychiatric diagnosis is >demeaning. Psychiatric problems are just as real as the >non-psychiatric problems.
>Rich Understood and agreed. Thankfully psychiatry is no longer a "non - physical" field of study. It still can be very inappropriate to put a psychiatric label on an illness that is affecting other body systems, ie: immune, nervous, etc. When I had my excrutiating peripheral neuropathy pain, with no known physical cause, both my girlfriend, Dad, and a Rheumatologist suggested "I was depressed and needed psychiatric intervention". You do not know how frustrating and humiliating that can be when you know you are having real problems and real pain with the origin not being a "brain chemical imbalance". I've lived in this body for 40 years and know it damn well! It is a delicate issue and needs to be approached as such.
Chuck
Rich - 24 Dec 2004 16:00 GMT >>It is sad that people think that having a psychiatric diagnosis is >>demeaning. Psychiatric problems are just as real as the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >field of study. It still can be very inappropriate to put a psychiatric label >on an illness that is affecting other body systems, ie: immune, nervous, etc. Why is it inappropriate?? You don't think it possible for psychiatric conditions to affect other body systems??
>When I had my excrutiating peripheral neuropathy pain, with no known physical >cause, both my girlfriend, Dad, and a Rheumatologist suggested "I was depressed >and needed psychiatric intervention". It is certainly possible that someone with severe peripheral neuropathic pain can *also* have a psychologic/psychiatric condition that is worsening the pain. The mind and body are quite interconnected.
> You do not know how frustrating and >humiliating that can be when you know you are having real problems and real >pain with the origin not being a "brain chemical imbalance". I understand that you think it is humiliating to have a brain chemical imbalance. It is not. Sadly many people are reluctant to get the psychiatric help they need because of attitudes like yours.
A brain chemical imbalance is as real as chemical poisoning. They just have different causes. And those who strongly believe that psychiatric conditions are something to be ashamed of go to great lengths to find a cause for their problems that is not psychiatric.
> I've lived in this >body for 40 years and know it damn well! We all have much to learn. The body and mind are quite complicated. Sometimes what we think is the truth is not. Food for thought.
Aloha,
Rich
------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
ChuckMSRD - 24 Dec 2004 16:49 GMT >Why is it inappropriate?? You don't think it possible for psychiatric >conditions to affect other body systems??
>Rich Wrong. I said it *can* be inappropriate. Big difference. Of course psychiatric conditions can and almost always *do* affect other bodily sytems.
>I understand that you think it is humiliating to have a brain chemical >imbalance. It is not. Sadly many people are reluctant to get the >psychiatric help they need because of attitudes like yours. Wrong again, in ragards to "my attitude." I know as well as anyone that the brain is an organ and can "fail" just as can the heart, kidney.... It is also very sad when I hear people label a shizophrenic, "nuts, psycho, wacko---loser, and think less of them. These same ignorant people would more often than not, never label someone with cardiomyopathy a loser because he cant get walk more than a few yards. There is little difference in that one is heart failure and one is brain failure. You have me pegged completely wrong, at least on this issue.
Chuck
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 17:09 GMT >Wrong. I said it *can* be inappropriate. >Big difference. Of course psychiatric conditions can and almost always *do* >affect other bodily sytems. TRUE.
Mercury filling amalgamitis is closely correlated with psychiatric disease.
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 21:14 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: chuckmsrd@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Chuck This is Rich's pattern, twisting and *baiting*.
Jan
Rich - 25 Dec 2004 21:23 GMT >>Why is it inappropriate?? You don't think it possible for psychiatric >>conditions to affect other body systems?? > >>Rich > >Wrong. I said it *can* be inappropriate. Are you saying that *sometimes* it *is* appropriate to refer someone to a psychiatrist for a psychiatric evaluation when the symptoms are physical in nature?? If so, how would you determine whether such a referral was appropriate??
>Big difference. Of course psychiatric conditions can and almost always *do* >affect other bodily sytems. We agree.
>>I understand that you think it is humiliating to have a brain chemical >>imbalance. It is not. Sadly many people are reluctant to get the >>psychiatric help they need because of attitudes like yours. > >Wrong again, in ragards to "my attitude." I apologize if I misinterpreted your attitude but you did say that you felt upset when someone suggested that you see a psychiatrist. It appeared that it was you who interpreted that suggestion as demeaning you or not taking your symptoms seriously. Or did the person say "You are nuts (or crazy,etc)" and should therefore see a psychiatrist?
If it was the latter I could understand why you would feel it inappropriate. If OTOH it was a referral based upon a desire to see if a psychiatric condition may be influencing your symptoms then I would not necessarily think it inappropriate.
> I know as well as anyone that the >brain is an organ and can "fail" just as can the heart, kidney.... It is also >very sad when I hear people label a shizophrenic, "nuts, psycho, wacko---loser, >and think less of them. I agree that calling someone who has schizophrenia, demeaning names is wrong. But we were not discussing pejorative terms. I thought the discussion was about whether or not your symptoms may be caused or worsened by psychiatric factors. I am sorry if I misinterpreted what you said.
> These same ignorant people would more often than not, >never label someone with cardiomyopathy a loser because he cant get walk more >than a few yards. There is little difference in that one is heart failure and >one is brain failure. You have me pegged completely wrong, at least on this >issue. But I don't, and never have, disagreed with you about the inappropriateness of gratuitously calling people demeaning names if they suffer from an illness (eg schizophrenia) that they have no control over.
Btw, I appreciate the civil manner in which you are discussing this and ignoring the comments of Jan Drew which only serve to derail a reasonable discussion. Notice how every one of her comments served only to gratuitously demean me. She is one of the reasons why it is difficult to carry on a discussion here. She cannot tolerate those whose POV differs from hers. Sad that.
Aloha,
Rich
>Chuck ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
ChuckMSRD - 26 Dec 2004 13:15 GMT > Are you saying that *sometimes* it *is* appropriate to refer someone >to a psychiatrist for a psychiatric evaluation when the symptoms are >physical in nature?? >Rich Of course it can be appropropriate. Each case differs as we know. Sometimes psychiatric intervention can be beneficial to help someone *cope* with the emotional devastation that pain and serious illness can bring on. Psychiatric intervention should not be deemed as always looking for the *cause* of the problem, but as part of the integrative approach to treating it. Case in point - regarding my peripheral neuropathy. When the Rheumatologist asked me if I was depressed *before* any other examinations or questions. I snapped back; wouldn't you get depressed if day in and day out you were in "9 scale" pain continuously. He was kind of shocked but he deserved it for jumping to the "depression card" as the causative factor IMO.
Chuck
Rich - 26 Dec 2004 15:57 GMT >> Are you saying that *sometimes* it *is* appropriate to refer someone >>to a psychiatrist for a psychiatric evaluation when the symptoms are >>physical in nature?? >>Rich > >Of course it can be appropropriate. Great. We agree.
>Each case differs as we know. Of course.
> Sometimes >psychiatric intervention can be beneficial to help someone *cope* with the >emotional devastation that pain and serious illness can bring on. Yes and *sometimes* psychiatric intervention can be beneficial in treating someone for a condition that is either *causing* or *worsening* a physical condition.
> Psychiatric >intervention should not be deemed as always looking for the *cause* of the >problem, but as part of the integrative approach to treating it. No one said it should be deemed as needed to refer to psychiatrist to *always* look for the cause of the problem. But it should be deemed useful to explore the possibility of psychiatric factors contributing when evaluation reveals no apparent organic cause or if the signs suggest psychiatric factors may be worsening the condition.
Now I agree that just because an organic cause cannot be clearly identified that it does not mean that such a cause is not present. In any case psychiatric illnesses are likely caused by some physiologic abnormality that may influence physical problems.
>Case in point - regarding my peripheral neuropathy. When the Rheumatologist >asked me if I was depressed *before* any other examinations or questions. >I >snapped back; wouldn't you get depressed if day in and day out you were in "9 >scale" pain continuously. He was kind of shocked but he deserved it for jumping >to the "depression card" as the causative factor IMO. I understand that you became upset simply for him *asking* if you were depressed. It sounds like you assumed that he was suggesting that your depression was the *cause* of your peripheral neuropathy. Otherwise why on earth would you be angry for a doctor acting such a question. Doctors ask questions to get a complete history. It is important to get a complete history before jumping to conclusions.
In any case why are you seeing a rheumatologist for Peripheral Neuropathy?? Should you not be seeing a neurologist??
Aloha,
Rich
Aloha,
Rich
>Chuck ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
Jan - 26 Dec 2004 17:09 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: chuckmsrd@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Chuck Very well said.
Rich plays arm chair psychiatrist on the net.
I suspect he was once an MD who got himself in a peck of trouble.
http://marinersguide.com/regions/hawaii/kailua.hi/medical.html
RICHARD H JACOBSON MD970 N KALAHEO AVE # 07, KAILUA, HI(808) 595-2761 PHYSICIANS & SURGEONS
However, I called, no trace and no listing.
Jan
clintonz@prodigy.net - 24 Dec 2004 16:55 GMT psychiatric intervention".
> It is certainly possible that someone with severe peripheral > neuropathic pain can *also* have a psychologic/psychiatric condition [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > imbalance. It is not. Sadly many people are reluctant to get the > psychiatric help they need because of attitudes like yours. lets be realistic. A brain chemical imbalance shouldn't carry a stigma, but it does. I agee that a chemical imbalance is an imbalance whether it affects the brain or kidney function. But people do not react the same to someone who is diagnosed with schizophrenia as they do to someone who has cancer. That shouldn't be the case but it is.
I have a theory as to why which is the following. In many instances in the past many diseases which where contagious also drove the victim mad such as yellow fever. Those who avoided people that where going crazy avoided exposing themselves to many types of untreatable and contagious diseases.
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 17:09 GMT >lets be realistic. We agree. There is no mercury filling disease!
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 17:10 GMT >I have a theory as YUP ,,,,,,,, LGM ... Little Green Men .......
Rich - 25 Dec 2004 21:23 GMT >psychiatric intervention". >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >lets be realistic. A brain chemical imbalance shouldn't carry >a stigma, but it does. Much less so now than was the case a decade or two ago. People are becoming more educated about the physical nature of psychiatric illnesses and the educated people are less judgemental of them.
> I agee that a chemical imbalance is an imbalance >whether it affects the brain or kidney function. But people do not >react the same to someone who is diagnosed with schizophrenia as they >do to someone who has cancer. That shouldn't be the case but it is. I agree with you but it is much less a problem today than it was years ago for the reasons I detailed above.
Aloha,
Rich ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
ChuckMSRD - 26 Dec 2004 13:06 GMT >>lets be realistic. A brain chemical imbalance shouldn't carry >>a stigma, but it does. > >Much less so now than was the case a decade or two ago
>Rich True but it is very slooow in coming. I think we'd all like a dollar for everytime we hear a derogatory comment about the likes of paxil, prozac......
Chuck
Rich - 26 Dec 2004 16:01 GMT >>>lets be realistic. A brain chemical imbalance shouldn't carry >>>a stigma, but it does. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >True but it is very slooow in coming. I think we'd all like a dollar for >everytime we hear a derogatory comment about the likes of paxil, prozac...... Just because some ignorant people make derogatory comments does not mean that generally people stigmatize people who are on these medications. With growing acceptance of depression as a physiologic condition, more and more people are willing to go for treatment. It may be slow in coming but I think that situation is progressively getting better.
Aloha,
Rich
>Chuck ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 21:12 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: chuckmsrd@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Chuck Very well said.
Most likely Rich will ignore you ALSO have PN along with mercury poisoning.
For no other reason than his usual pathetic trying to trash me personally.
Our PN was caused by the peas, don't ya know. *;*
Jan
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 21:07 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: chuckmsrd@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >Not fun! >Chuck Rich has a pattern of abuse, lies and badgering, that why he nuked his posts.
Jan
Steven Fawks - 24 Dec 2004 15:03 GMT > Psychology is 99% crap 1% science. Maybe the researches > should be tested for psychological bias since it is > so common. I find it very amusing that people are unable to accept the fact that brains can malfunction like any other body part.
Some studies indicate that as much as 50% of patients visiting a physicians office are really there because of psychosomatic problems.
I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame rather than face the truth.
Fawks
ChuckMSRD - 24 Dec 2004 15:29 GMT >> Psychology is 99% crap 1% science.
>I find it very amusing that people are unable to accept the >fact that brains can malfunction like any other body part. With all due respect, that is psychiatry / neurology / neuropsychiatry....... and you are correct. When it becomes nonsense is when you start talking about penis envy, potty training...... and present behaviour, et al.
>I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame >rather than face the truth. > >Fawks I hope it never happens, but it would be interesting to see your response while having a real illness, when someone tells you "its all in your head - get over it".
Chuck
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 15:34 GMT >>I find it very amusing that people are unable to accept the >>fact that brains can malfunction like any other body part. > >With all due respect, that is psychiatry / neurology / neuropsychiatry....... >and you are correct. When it becomes nonsense is when you start talking about >penis envy, potty training...... and present behaviour, et al. True, but Jan does recommend coffee enemas, right?
Joel
>>I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame >>rather than face the truth. >> >>Fawks clintonz@prodigy.net - 24 Dec 2004 16:16 GMT envy, potty training...... and present behaviour, et al.
> >I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame > >rather than face the truth. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Chuck I don't know if fawks is talking about general MCS or Hg or what but I agree it's about burden of proof. Shifting the burden of proof to victims is the way the medical establishment works for all kinds of conditions.
As far as hg, injecting Hg into rats is the preferred method of inducing autoimmune disorders for various studies. Your immune system has to respond to everything in the environment from chemicals to airbone bacteria second by second. Throw a monkey wrench into that in the form of a severe toxic exposure and things can short circuit real quick. Remove the immune system entirely and you'll end up dead from a cold.
ChuckMSRD - 24 Dec 2004 16:41 GMT >> >I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame >> >rather than face the truth. >> > >> >Fawks Also mentioned was "50% of medical cases are psychosomatic". What is the endpoint to get to that decision? No answer from a slew of conventional physicians, and wala? "its all in your mind"? I believe that to be naive as there are many many mysteries within the human body. Now if you said "50% of medical cases are stress related; hypertension, anxiety, arrythmias.....there is little disputing that IMO.
Chuck
Rich - 27 Dec 2004 23:18 GMT >>> Psychology is 99% crap 1% science. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and you are correct. When it becomes nonsense is when you start talking about >penis envy, potty training...... and present behaviour, et al. I agree with you. But it is not necessary to invoke any of the above when discussing how a psychiatric disorder can lead to physical signs and symptoms. The mind body connection is a very complicated one.
>>I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame >>rather than face the truth. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >having a real illness, when someone tells you "its all in your head - get over >it". But psychiatric illnesses *are* real illnesses. Saying "it is all in your head" suggests that it is not real.
And these very real psychiatric illnesses *can* result in worsening of physical conditions. For example if one suffers from peripheral neuropathy, one might have an exacerbation of the symptoms (burning, stinging pain) as a result of psychologic factors or psychiatric illness (which is as real as non-psychiatric illness).
Current understanding of psychiatric disorders seems to indicate that there is a strong physical/physiologic component which may explain why medications can be effective in treating them.
Aloha,
Rich
>Chuck ------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
clintonz@prodigy.net - 24 Dec 2004 15:59 GMT > > Psychology is 99% crap 1% science. Maybe the researches > > should be tested for psychological bias since it is > > so common. > > I find it very amusing that people are unable to accept the > fact that brains can malfunction like any other body part. I'm not saying that psychological conditions don't exist. I'm saying that many diagnostic methods and the researchers using those tools, utilize opinons and subjective methods too often to make psychology reliable. This allows people to inject their own bias into the results.
A famous example is the experiment where Millikian determined the unit of electric charge using oil drops. He convinced himself after carrying out many scientifically controlled experiments that the data converged to a unit charge of +/1. Later anaylsis showed that the data did not support that conclusion, he had been biased in his analysis even though he guessed correctly. It's too easy to fool yourself based on what you THINK the result will be, even when you are doing pure science.
> Some studies indicate that as much as 50% of patients visiting > a physicians office are really there because of psychosomatic > problems. Studies show that 25% of people in the emergency room are misdiagnosized. Studies show that on autopsy the stated cause of death is wrong at least 25% of the time. Physicians easily misdiagnose their patients half the time. On the hand the studies you quote could easily be (and probably are) more subjective psychological nonsense masquarading as science.
I saw a psychological study recently which concluded that golfers who practice with music perform better during the game because they learn avoid distractions. So Tiger Woods should practice with a boom box? It's all just a bunch of psychological baloney. The authors had an idea that practicing with music would increase performance and sure enough they confirmed their pre-concieved conclusions.
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 16:37 GMT >> > Psychology is 99% crap 1% science. Maybe the researches >> > should be tested for psychological bias since it is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I'm not saying that psychological conditions don't exist. We have proof of it right here! Just the thought of mercury fillings makes Jan Drew very sick!
Joel
> I'm >saying that many diagnostic methods and the researchers using those [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >with music would increase performance and sure enough they >confirmed their pre-concieved conclusions. Advocate147 - 24 Dec 2004 17:23 GMT Dr. Fawks,
Controversy, controversy. "50% of patients visiting a physicians office have psychosomatic problems" "I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame rather than face the truth." Give you credit on the 50-50% of real problems and maybe 25% on the easier to find someone or something to blame" I am in the 25% that blame others for some of the problems that seem imaginary. If one would read the crohns-colitis group, (in one sense it is related to everyone, even dentistry) there are any number of people that have been diagnosed with imaginary problems until the problem becomes clearer and is diagnosed as crohns. (and sometimes by surgery) My theory, of course, is that someone can be blamed for causing the illness to the crohns person. It is so subtle a suffering at times that it is thought to be imaginary. Some have gone to a psychiatrist seeking the cause of their "imaginary" symptoms. The psychiatrist is at a loss to explain their problem. Pres Bush has signed a bill with a committee to investigate the problems of crohns and the ease with which the ill should receive disability. This problem can affect anyone at any time, it is a hugely advancing illness. The stimulants are responsible for this, I maintain and will continue to try to have the cause, ever so illogical, understood. Is it a problem for dental? Yes and no. It affects dental but not as obviously understood as the other symptoms of digestion, etc. Sorry if this is off topic, but when the subject of unknown causes of illness appears, that sets my mind in motion, just as others with their own agenda.(amalgam, TMJ) etc, Thanks? for listening. It is becoming clearer that the mind cannot be separated from the body. Regards Gail
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 21:27 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: Steven Fawks tuthjockey@earthlink.net [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I find it very amusing that people are unable to accept the >fact that brains can malfunction like any other body part. That's a strange way to be amused.
What you overlook is:
Mercury vapors from amalgam go to the brain.
>Some studies indicate that as much as 50% of patients visiting >a physicians office are really there because of psychosomatic >problems. > >I suppose it is easier to find something or someone to blame >rather than face the truth.
>Fawks The *truth* is:
Mercury vapors go to the brain!!!
As well as to all organs of the body, causing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
MERCURY POISONING.
Which YOU deny.
Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 22:45 GMT >That's a strange way to be amused. > >What you overlook is: > >Mercury vapors from amalgam go to the brain. I am glad something goes there Jan!
Joel
Otherwise its a huge empty space!
ChuckMSRD - 23 Dec 2004 19:20 GMT >This is not surprising since both multiple sensitivity syndrome and >mercury poisoning by amalgams have been strongly linked to >psychiatric problems. It is hardly surprising that you have discovered >such a strong correlation.
>Rich It is sad Rich that you jump to the "psychiatric card" when something is unexplained in it's entirety. Schizophrenics ,Depressives, Anxiety Disorders, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue..... Were all labeled as not having a physical origin. A simple MRI of a schizophrenics brain has thankfully eradicated the notion that these people are "demon possessed". Similar findings of seratonin, norepinephrine... monoamine levels... do the same to a large extent with anxiety and depression. How long you continue to hide beyond the psychiatric label (it's all in your head) is up to you. Multiple Chemical Sensitivity disorder does not respond well to psychiatric treatment. Educate yourself on that before you jump the gun.
Chuck
Dr Steve - 23 Dec 2004 13:49 GMT You guys are trying to communicate with a hydra.
clintonz@prodigy.net - 23 Dec 2004 15:30 GMT Hey twitbrain, did you ever figure out the upper limit on amalgam Hg release?
clintonz@prodigy.net - 23 Dec 2004 15:33 GMT PS- how many "shortcuts" do you take when condensing amalgam.
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT >PS- how many "shortcuts" do you take when condensing amalgam. none.
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 20:09 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: "Dr Steve" nospam@home.net >Date: 12/23/2004 5:49 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <o1Ayd.5103$by5.1536@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com> > >You guys are trying to communicate with a hydra. Nice of you to call names to those who have had mercury poisoning.
Jan
Did you even read??
Or did the
*i-don't-want-to-be-informed-attitude* take over.
http://herballure.com/Downloads/MyMercuryStory.pdf
Jan
Jan - 22 Dec 2004 23:01 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: chuckmsrd@aol.com (ChuckMSRD) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/chuck_balzer.html Great!
Welcome.
Jan
Rich - 22 Dec 2004 16:00 GMT >Rich, you moron. YOu have a nice day too. Cue Jan to jump on the bandwagon and take the opportunity to make a gratuitous attack. Just watch.
Aloha,
Rich
------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------
Best defense to logic is ignorance
Steven Fawks - 22 Dec 2004 16:05 GMT Whatever you say.......
Talk about denial.
Fawks
> Rich, you moron. There is no upper limit on the methlyization or > leakage that > can occur from ONE filling. Tony Bad - 22 Dec 2004 16:14 GMT Endless and limitless leakage...that makes good sense...and he is calling people a moron.
T
> Whatever you say....... > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > leakage that > > can occur from ONE filling. carabelli - 22 Dec 2004 16:24 GMT > Endless and limitless leakage...that makes good sense...and he is calling people > a moron. > > T Sounds as if we have found a power source for a perpetual motion machine. Somebody's got a Nobel Prize in their future.
carabelli
W_B - 22 Dec 2004 17:05 GMT >> Endless and limitless leakage...that makes good sense...and he is calling >people [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >carabelli 350 mV ? --
W_B
Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 23 Dec 2004 13:47 GMT Fusion reaction in dental amalgam?
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
>> Endless and limitless leakage...that makes good sense...and he is calling > people [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > carabelli clintonz@prodigy.net - 22 Dec 2004 17:55 GMT I'm very glad that you and fawks posted because now I'm going to ask the "unanswerable question." What is the largest amount of elemental and methyl Hg coming off from an amalgam in the US today?
Maybe that is too difficult. Let's make it simpler. What is the highest that has been recorded.
On the physics side Hg can move within the filling. And that rate is not set at any lower limit for every condition. In fact no one truely understands how amalgam works or the phase changes it undergoes. An amalgam is not an alloy, despite the fact that you still think it is. No stable alloy has a vapor pressure.
Mark Thorson - 22 Dec 2004 20:12 GMT > Rich, you moron. There is no upper limit on the methlyization > or leakage that can occur from ONE filling. Yup. A one-gram filling can leak two grams of mercury. Or more. Any scientist who says otherwise is just expressing an OPINION. Just ask Jan. :-)
Jan - 22 Dec 2004 23:01 GMT >Subject: Re: Entitled: My Mercury Story >From: clintonz@prodigy.net [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >from one >filling, taking all concievable factors (condensing, galvanisim, etc?) It is simply a pattern from Rich, he has attacked. stalked and badgered everyone who ever reported success with alternative medicine or dentistry.
They left, he has failed to run me off.
He has a problem.
Jan
Rich - 23 Dec 2004 02:04 GMT >It is simply a pattern from Rich, he has attacked. stalked and badgered >everyone who ever reported success with alternative medicine or dentistry. I have exposed the lies of Jan Drew. Originally Jan thought she had mercury poisoning from amalgams. Then I proved that she did not. She then changed her story to make it look like she did.
>They left, he has failed to run me off. They left because I exposed their lies and apparently they became ashamed. Jan continues to stay because she has no shame.
>He has a problem. The mother of all self referential posts.
Proof that Jan Drew never had mercury poisoning and knows it:
>>>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a >>>dentist (alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They [quoted text clipped - 170 lines] > >Rich
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