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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005Dental treatment at US dental schools?
What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! >What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be >interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! Around here the dental schools are expensive. That said, it depends on what work is needed. I am sure a root canal or a crown might represent some savings, but do not go there with the intent of getting a complicated treatment done. It will take them five years to do. Remember, you are the teaching GUINEA PIG first and foremost. Delievering dental care is not their goal. They won't even hear about why the tooth is taking ten hours to drill. Joel Many thanks for the information - very interesting. I read some positive reports about dental schools (albeit not in PA) in the past, and thought it might be a runner for someone without the financial resources to fund extensive treatment. What would be the best way to go about financing extensive treatment in the US, supposing that "taking on another job" was not an option and the person had a disability? > >What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > >at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Joel >Many thanks for the information - very interesting. I read some >positive reports about dental schools (albeit not in PA) in the past, >and thought it might be a runner for someone without the financial >resources to fund extensive treatment. What would be the best way to go >about financing extensive treatment in the US, supposing that "taking >on another job" was not an option and the person had a disability? MY TAKE There are many approaches to excellent dentistry. One is "COMPLETE MAKEOVER" another is "redoing everything better," and a third is to do what is necessary. So a good plan is first and foremost in keeping costs down. This applies to the dental school route too. HERE is an analogy. I helped someone set up a computer network for business purposes. There were 25 modems all running in this one room. That's a lot of amps, besides the computer stuff. They have those step-down transformers that generate heat.. I recommended that a separate electrical line be run from the electrical panel to the computer area, to make sure that no lines would become overloaded. The electrician arrived and of course wanted to install another 200 amp service with a separate box. It was overkill in my opinion. Oh I am sure it would not hurt anything but still, it might be overdoing it. So right at the get-go due diligence is needed. Same for dentistry. Joel >> >What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment >done >> >at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be >> >interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! Joel wrote, >> Around here the dental schools are expensive. That said, it depends >> on what work is needed. I am sure a root canal or a crown might [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Joel GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. A few more risks are: They will want to fix all your teeth, replace fillings so in effect you'll eventually pay more for unnecessary work. They may take too long to treat a tooth which may need urgent attention. They will not actually work on your teeth most of the time. They'll waste a lot of time in a variety of ways. >>What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >>at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Joel > GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. > A few more risks are: > > They will want to fix all your teeth, replace fillings so in effect > you'll eventually pay more for unnecessary work. Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to steal from you. KMEWA carabelli >>GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. >>A few more risks are: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > carabelli Dan, help me out with KMEWA Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. >>>A few more risks are: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to steal >> from you. Personal story: A graduating senior approached me with MY x-rays that were on file with the school. He pointed out a distal decay on tooth #11 (upper left canine) that he felt would be just perfect for his board exam. I politely declined. Here it is 42 years later, and I have had the tooth x-rayed from time to time over the years. There WAS and still IS no decay on that tooth at all. His name is _ _ _ _ _ Never mind, but I sure know who he is! (That old x-ray switcher). FROM 1962. Joel >> KMEWA >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Steve > >>>GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. > >>>A few more risks are: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Joel Interesting. The common theme at UMKC when board time rolled around was this. The patient that the candidate paid to be a patient (you read that correctly - many paid the patient to make sure they would show) realizing how important this was would demand more cash or they would walk. carabelli >>>>>GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. >>>>>A few more risks are: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > carabelli My perio board patient got drunk and showed up 2 hours late. Fortunately, another student had a backup perio patient he didn't need--a 2nd year dental student. I didn't pay any patients (other than cabfare), but I'm sure it was happening all around me. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >Interesting. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >carabelli Absolutely. We had professional denture board patients who would sit for their impressions, bite, etc., for big bucks. We had a SEPTA (bus, train and trolley) strike my senior year so we were all sitting around with no patients. A friend had lots of patients. He told me he paid cab fares to and from the dental school. "Isn't that kind of expensive, Normie," I asked. He said, "No it isn't. Repeating a year of dental school is expensive." Joel | > Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to steal | > from you. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Steve I would like a little help too. Roy > | > Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to > steal [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I would like a little help too. > Roy I'm sure with a little self control you can hold off until Valentine's Day. carabelli | > | > Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to | > steal [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | | carabelli Good thing my cup is still empty, plus I've learnt to have a backup key board or two for nights like this > | > Remarkable isn't it. You would think we could find an easier way to steal > | > from you. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I would like a little help too. > Roy Make that three of us. TW "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > > > | Dan, help me out with KMEWA > > | [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Make that three of us. > TW I asked when this same acronym made an appearance a month or two back. Can't seem to find the reply, and can't remember it all...but it involved the words kiss, my, white, and...well you can guess the "a". I have no idea what the "e" stands for. T > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message > news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > T ahhhhhhhh. electronic???? Did I get it right, Dan? TW :-) >"The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message >news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >T entire -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >"The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message > >news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Good ideas, W_B but I still think: electronic TW enormous ??? Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:56:53 -0500, "Tony Bad" [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > TW eloquent Fawks > enormous ??? Educated. >eloquent > >Fawks > >> enormous ??? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com elephantial Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > Educated. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com "E" The possibilities are endless and so are the minds. Eerie Gail ecclesiastic Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > "E" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Gail eccentric Remembering this is a "Dental" forum SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply | ecclesiastic >eccentric > >Remembering this is a "Dental" forum Eclectic -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>eccentric >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Euphonious Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>eccentric >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Euphonious EXCELLENT ... (of speech or dialect) pleasing in sound; not harsh or strident >Steve >>>>eccentric >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > (of speech or dialect) pleasing in sound; not harsh or strident That's my euphonious WA! Steve >>Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 ebony? >>>>>eccentric >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >>>Steve >ebony? and ivory ...... la/la. >>>>>>eccentric >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> >>>>Steve evory? >>ebony? > and ivory ...... la/la. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >>>> >>>>>Steve > ebony?........... I like that- my entire white ebony a** Then again I think I'll go make a black and tan. (Joel - that's half Guinness and half Harps - which you would know if you didn't spend all day &##&ing crossposting) Guess that would be two since I'm not throwing half of each out. Closed till next Tuesday - the staff was ready for a break. carabelli >> ebony?........... > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >(Joel - that's half Guinness and half Harps - which you would know if you >didn't spend all day &##&ing crossposting) I am amazed at what we are ..... as a human race. Last evening there was a wonderful PBS program about bone marrow transplant and acute myelogenous leukemia. We have some limited treatment possible where, a generation ago, the life predictibility was zero. This program was about a miraculous treatment and a miraculous effort by an incredible species. Then I tuned in to read more about QUICKER BEAN SOUP. Or, next was Ted Koppel and the foolishness we got ourselves into in Iraq. Can you imagine the Americans Landing on D-Day, but then the leaders tell them they they have to dig up a whole bunch of Germans, train them for two weeks, eat lunch in the mess hall with them ....? well you know the rest. The contrast is what does it for me. It accetuates both. So the cross-posting is directed at the few intelligent souls out there who might make some connection ...... between KNOWLEDGE, and getting the correct treatment in dentistry. Now if no one is aware, then we better just slap crowns on all those teeth and be done with them. Its just spitting in the wind! Most missed the point. Happily a few did not. Joel >Guess that would be two since I'm not throwing half of each out. > >Closed till next Tuesday - the staff was ready for a break. > >carabelli eternal or everlasting Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > "E" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Gail endless Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > "E" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Gail egregious Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > eloquent > > Fawks > >> enormous ??? > egregious Thank you, I had been waiting for that one. carabelli >> egregious >> > Thank you, I had been waiting for that one. > > carabelli You are very welcome :~) >> news:Kg1yd.3964$_X7.879@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... >>> egregious [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You are very welcome :~) Notice that no one said erotic emetic, maybe "Notice that no one said erotic" No one dared to say erotic especially from experience. Gail, getting nasty | Notice that no one said erotic Thought that would come from one the boyz from DC SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply "E" Another silly one. Ethnic. Gail In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-C61BBF.10073221122004@orngca-news04.soca l.rr.com>, > > On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:56:53 -0500, "Tony Bad" > > <spamspamspam@bakedbeans.spam> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > TW Perhaps I should say that I ***prefer*** to think "e" stands for "electronic" because it's much less "visual", if you KWIM. TW ;-) >> >"e" >> >stands for. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> W_B >Good ideas, W_B but I still think: electronic > >TW Shocking ! -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >> >"e" > >> >stands for. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Absolutely! (But -- a little play on words there -- I can handle it.) In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-BC7BAA.11190621122004@orngca-news04.soca l.rr.com>, > > >> >"e" > > >> >stands for. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Absolutely! (But -- a little play on words there -- I can handle it.) Not to imply that I would actually be "handling" anything... ;-) Whew! >"The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message >news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >T Everlovin' -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>"The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message >>news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com That ties for first prize with 'enormous'. > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message > news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > T Entire > > "The Webby" <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam@san.rr.com> wrote in message > > news:nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-> > | > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > Entire euuu.... now that's an serious image! TW ;-) >GUINEA PIG is exactly the term. >A few more risks are: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >They will not actually work on your teeth most of the time. They'll >waste a lot of time in a variety of ways. I spent a good part of my dental career down inside Nat's Coffee Shop in the basement of the Penn Dentral School, trying to strong arm the instructors to finish their bagel with cream cheese so I could get going with my patients! LITERALLY TRUE! See how quickly I forget? This was 1962. Joel >>>What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >>>at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> >>Joel > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be > interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! I agree with Joel. Quality of treatment is generally high, but it could take forever to get treatment completed. Last I knew, the fees were modest, but not as modest as I would think, considering the circumstances. Steve > > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve I'd add that I have heard a few horror stories lately, where lack of concern for the interests of the patient were taken to an alarming extreme. As Joel noted, the prime focus of a dental school is to educate dentists. Somehow, when I was a student, the goal of education was achieved while still maintaining high patient care standards. People were not cast adrift with incomplete or inadequate care. A patient of mine brought in a friend who had been treated at an area school for almost two years. This unfortunate woman had her upper teeth removed, but the immediate denture they made for her didn't fit, so they sent her home. She spent the next year plus chasing down students and instructors trying to get some teeth. This woman had no teeth!! I called the school and also wrote a letter to the dean expressing my outrage. I subsequently learned such stories are not unique. It frightens me to think that instead of training dentists to have high moral and ethical standards, they are teaching them, or at least allowing them, to use patients and treat them like crap. I cannot help but wonder how this will impact the future of our profession. T Many thanks for all your responses! It would appear that cost/quality of treatment varies a lot from dental school to dental school (and state to state). If this is the case, how could a potential patient determine what the quality of treatment/time frame at their local dental school is likely to be (and would they get an honest answer)? And - what's the best alternative for someone with limited finances? >Many thanks for all your responses! It would appear that cost/quality >of treatment varies a lot from dental school to dental school (and >state to state). If this is the case, how could a potential patient >determine what the quality of treatment/time frame at their local >dental school is likely to be (and would they get an honest answer)? >And - what's the best alternative for someone with limited finances? Go there, get x-rays, a treatment plan, and then get three more elsewhere! Or we can discuss what is going on right here! Joel Schedule a consult, find out where the patient waiting area is and start asking questions of the patients that are being treated there. Got a skill or service you can barter with? Drop a letter off to a few dentists in you neighbourhood, say you need work done but you don't have a lot of cash to pay for full treatment and tell them what you can provide in return. SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply | Many thanks for all your responses! It would appear that cost/quality | of treatment varies a lot from dental school to dental school (and | state to state). If this is the case, how could a potential patient | determine what the quality of treatment/time frame at their local | dental school is likely to be (and would they get an honest answer)? | And - what's the best alternative for someone with limited finances? >Got a skill or service you can barter with? I barter for cash. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com My opinion is that you should go to a dental school in an urban area. The proximity to inner city life and finances makes for lots of dental work for the students to work on. More practice on harder cases makes for good dentists. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Many thanks for all your responses! It would appear that cost/quality > of treatment varies a lot from dental school to dental school (and > state to state). If this is the case, how could a potential patient > determine what the quality of treatment/time frame at their local > dental school is likely to be (and would they get an honest answer)? > And - what's the best alternative for someone with limited finances? >My opinion is that you should go to a dental school in an urban area. The >proximity to inner city life and finances makes for lots of dental work for >the students to work on. More practice on harder cases makes for good >dentists. Just keep off the subway late at night .... It costs from 20%-60% of "normal" fees. It takes about 4-6 times longer for each procedure. Your mouth will be looked at by a dozen different people. You will get free consultations with every dental specialty. The quality of the work is generally excellent to superior. Each appointment will be 3-4 hours long. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be > interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be > interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! I'm not a dentist. I've never had work done at a dental college. I have often gotten my hair cut at cosmetology colleges. If they don't have any clients waiting, they cut your hair three times until it is the length you asked for in the first place. It takes forever, but they usually do a better job than a regular salon. The instructor is always good and she checks and fixes the student's work. I never got a bad cut at a college, but I got several bad ones at regular salons. > > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > good and she checks and fixes the student's work. I never got a bad cut > at a college, but I got several bad ones at regular salons. And if they run out of length to work with, the shaved-head look is very fashionable! TW In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-A21A59.09482016122004@orngca-news04.soca l.rr.com>, > > > What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done > > > at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > TW More to the Charter of smd, shaving down all the teeth to get them to come together correctly ... that's not fashionable and it's not a good idea either. In fact, it's a baaaaaaaaaad idea. TW >And if they run out of length to work with, the shaved-head look is very >fashionable! > >TW Hair today, gone tomorrow! > >And if they run out of length to work with, the shaved-head look is very > >fashionable! > > > >TW > > Hair today, gone tomorrow! Great one!! TW >> What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >> at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I have often gotten my hair cut at cosmetology colleges. Hair grows back ,,, teeth? Nope! > If they don't >have any clients waiting, they cut your hair three times until it is the >length you asked for in the first place. It takes forever, but they >usually do a better job than a regular salon. The instructor is always >good and she checks and fixes the student's work. I never got a bad cut >at a college, but I got several bad ones at regular salons. >What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be >interested in hearing about patients' experiences. Thanks!! A friend I know over the internet is getting his needed work done at a dental school. He says that it is costing him about 33% of what he would be changed at a normal practice, and is satisfied with the quality of work he has recieved. It sure is taking a long time to get completed, but he'd go without it if not for the reduced cost to him. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>What are dentists' opinions on getting extensive dental treatment done >>at dental schools in the US (for financial reasons)? I'd also be [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >quality of work he has recieved. It sure is taking a long time to get >completed, but he'd go without it if not for the reduced cost to him. In his own words (takin from irc) <adenowork> dude, so, uxia.. how's that dental school treatment working out for you? <adenowork> cuz i've been talking with people, and thre seem to be a lot of differing opinions as to how it is <uxie_tokin> dude <uxie_tokin> it owns <uxie_tokin> %25 the cost <uxie_tokin> + my dentist adenosine, is like 15 years practice <uxie_tokin> only in school cause she wnats to learn more basically -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? |
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