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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004Public information re: caring for your child's teeth
I have more material to follow, but for openers, please read and comment on the following: > Check teeth for cavities. > Once a month lift the child?s lip and look for chalky white or brown spots. > Especially check the upper front teeth where the gums and teeth meet, on the > inside and the outside.?White spots can be the beginning of cavities. Your > dentist may apply fluoride to slow the development of a cavity. If you see > any, take your child to the dentist.?Brown spots may indicate cavities. TW In article <nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-599FFE.14071313122004@orngca-news04.soca l.rr.com>, > I have more material to follow, but for openers, please read and comment > on the following: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > TW And now please read this: > One concern about fluoride is white spots or mottling on the teeth (called > fluorosis). This can occur when a child has 2 mg or more fluoride per day. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > only a drop of toothpaste the size of a pea. This precaution, and encouraging > your child not to swallow most of the toothpaste, will prevent fluorosis. **"People of all ages should use only a drop of toothpaste the size of a pea."** ?????????? > A fluoride toothpaste is beneficial. People of all ages tend to use too much > toothpaste; an amount the size of a pea is all that you need. It's getting complicated, folks. Stay tuned for more "public information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of consistency in the information. How important is it that the public gets consistent information, and how much variation should be acceptable when it comes to these amounts of fluoride that people consume? TW >> TW > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >TW Thanks for posting that. Just curious, where did you find that info on the 2 mg? Do you have a site? I have been searching furiously for something like that. Keri Sure. The big strip squirted out on the ads is just to get you to use more of the stuff and increase profits. I'm funnin' but I ain't jokin' :-) Fawks > **"People of all ages should use only a drop of toothpaste the size of a > pea."** ?????????? > > TW > Sure. The big strip squirted out on the ads is just to get you to > use more of the stuff and increase profits. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > TW Yes, and then we can read in public information material that people of all ages should not use more than two of those pea-sized amounts daily. What about "brush after every meal"???? Do we have an overeating or an over-brushing problem here? I'm funnin' but I ain't jokin' either. TW :-) > > Sure. The big strip squirted out on the ads is just to get you to > > use more of the stuff and increase profits. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I'm funnin' but I ain't jokin' either. > TW :-) The first thing people will say is 'It ain't enough toot paste, Doc...' I tell 'em: 'Don't put it ON yer Toot Brush; put it IN it..'; then I show them that your pea will go a long way if you put it into the bristles with your finger, and so it doesn't wash out so quickly. Just My two Cents SP  SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > > > Sure. The big strip squirted out on the ads is just to get you to > > > use more of the stuff and increase profits. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Just My two Cents > SP Money's worth, in cents or "dollars", doesn't much matter! TW >information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >consistency in the information. How important is it that the public >gets consistent information, and how much variation should be acceptable >when it comes to these amounts of fluoride that people consume? > >TW So true. >>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >So true. And I am surprised at the conflicting information about fluoride, and the lack of interest about it! Joel Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it a try and see what they tell you? Couldn't hurt and it might help with the understanding about the why. UM MOM Susan >>>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >>>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Joel >Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it >a try and see what they tell you? Couldn't hurt and it might help with the >understanding about the why. UM MOM Susan I asked at DentalTown, and bumped the thread to the yop of the list continually. There are hundreds of dentists who saw it, but so far no one interested. I am going over to bump it right now. Joel >>>>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >>>>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Joel > >Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to > >attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >> > >> Joel I think the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry should have something to say in explanation. Am I alone in thinking this? TW Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? Some of these concerns that are being constantly posted by some leaves out the fact that most people do not get symptoms from amalgams or fluoride. Now, doesn't that say something? UM MOM Susan >> >Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >> >attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > TW >Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there >isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? You are correct. Epidemiologically, there is no serious problem, there may be slight problems .... mostly detectable by dentists ..... Joel >Some of these concerns that are being constantly posted by some leaves out >the fact that most people do not get symptoms from amalgams or fluoride. >Now, doesn't that say something? UM MOM Susan I would be more concerned about the later effect of fluoride on bones ....... Joel >>> >Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >>> >attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> >> TW Please explain, do you mean jaw bones? UM MOM Susan > (snipped) > I would be more concerned about the later effect of fluoride on bones [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>> >>> TW >Please explain, do you mean jaw bones? UM MOM Susan >> (snipped) >> I would be more concerned about the later effect of fluoride on bones >> ....... REPLY All bones .. hip bone connected to the ........ knee bone ..... knee bone connected to the ....... Joel >> Joel >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >>>> >>>> TW Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere in the body? UM MOM Susan >>Please explain, do you mean jaw bones? UM MOM Susan >>> (snipped) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Joel >Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >in the body? UM MOM Susan I have that sense of it ,,,, it was brought to my attention by various patients .... I will look around and see what I can find (on the internet). Bone is an organ, has a bood supply and undergoes anabolism and catabolism (growth and breakdown). I am sure you know this but I included it for others who may be lurking. Joel >>>Please explain, do you mean jaw bones? UM MOM Susan >>>> (snipped) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Joel > >Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere > >in the body? UM MOM Susan > > I have that sense of it ,,,, it was brought to my attention by various > patients .... I will look around and see what I can find (on the > internet). You may find some info at http://www.fluoridealert.org (resp. http://www.fluorideaction.net). Prof. Connett has some related articles there. As an aside: the ADA bought the fluoridealert.com etc. URL´s to link them to the ADA´s fluoride info. Nice, isn´t it? Peter Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- >> >Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >> >in the body? UM MOM Susan [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Peter Thanks PETER Joel >Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >in the body? UM MOM Susan Most definately. Brittle bones, especially. Do a search on skeletal fluorosis. (that would be extreme, though) Here is one opener ...... THIS APPLIES to the frugal people as prevention is more frugal than extensive therapy at the end of life ..... Joel M. Eichen J Bone Miner Res. 2004 Nov;19(11):1797-804. Epub 2004 Aug 23. Related Articles, Links Dissociation between global markers of bone formation and direct measurement of spinal bone formation in osteoporosis. Frost ML, Fogelman I, Blake GM, Marsden PK, Cook G Jr. Osteoporosis Screening and Research Unit, Guy's, King's, and St. Thomas' School of Medicine, King's College, London, United Kingdom. michelle.frost@kcl.ac.uk Regional bone metabolism measured using 18F-fluoride PET was assessed in 72 postmenopausal women classified as normal, osteopenic, or osteoporotic. Lower values of regional bone formation activity at the lumbar spine were seen in osteoporotic women, whereas global markers of bone formation were significantly increased. INTRODUCTION: Evaluations of global bone remodeling have revealed that increased bone turnover is a feature of patients with osteoporosis. The noninvasive functional imaging technique of 18F-fluoride positron emission tomography (PET) allows the direct quantitative assessment of bone metabolism at specific sites in the skeleton, including the clinically important site of the lumbar spine. MATERIALS AND METHODS: The aim of this study was to compare regional skeletal kinetics in 72 postmenopausal women (mean age, 61 years) classified as normal, osteopenic, or osteoporotic according to their BMD T score at the lumbar spine. Each woman had a dynamic PET scan of the lumbar spine after injection of 90 MBq 18F-fluoride ion and measurements of biochemical markers of bone formation and resorption. The arterial plasma input function was derived using aorta arterial activity from the PET image. Time-activity curves were obtained by placing regions of interest over the lumbar vertebrae. A three-compartmental model was used to calculate bone blood flow (K1) and the net plasma clearance of tracer to bone mineral (Ki), reflecting regional osteoblastic activity (ml/minutes/ml). Rate constants k2, k3, and k4, which describe transport between plasma, the extracellular fluid (ECF) compartment, and the bone mineral compartment, were also measured. RESULTS: The net uptake of fluoride to the bone mineral compartment (Ki) was significantly lower in the osteoporotic group compared with both the osteopenic and normal groups, with a mean difference of 0.005 ml/minutes/ml (16.7%). The fraction of the tracer in the extravascular tissue space that underwent specific binding to bone mineral (k3/k2 + k3) was also significantly reduced in the women classified as osteoporotic. In contrast, levels of bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSALP) were significantly higher in the osteoporotic group compared with the normal and osteopenic groups by 35% and 27%, respectively. A significant negative correlation (r = -0.41) was observed between levels of BSALP and the fraction of the tracer that underwent specific binding to bone mineral. CONCLUSION: Lower values of Ki, a measurement of regional bone formation activity, were seen in women classified as osteoporotic, whereas levels of BSALP, a measure of global bone formation, were significantly increased. These findings are suggestive of increased global skeletal bone turnover in women with postmenopausal osteoporosis but with relatively reduced regional bone formation at the predominantly trabecular site of the lumbar spine. PMID: 15476579 [PubMed - in process] >>Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >>in the body? UM MOM Susan > >Most definately. Brittle bones, especially. Do a search on skeletal >fluorosis. (that would be extreme, though) "This aplies to the frugal people as prevention is more frugal than extensive therapy at the end of life." Yes, Dr. Eichen, you are so very right. Problem is, it must be taught at an age where children are still children and while growing up with no better instructions or counseling. The age varies when one finally gets a helpful degree of understanding, and by that time? Terribly imperfect world in so many ways. Gail >"This aplies to the frugal people as prevention is more frugal than extensive >therapy at the end of life." [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Terribly imperfect world in so many ways. >Gail Precisely, I recall a time when doctors, regular M.D.s used x-ray machines to treat kids for pimples and so-called "enlarged thyroids." The cancers that developed 20 years later (all documented epidemiologically) were strictly NOT FRUGAL for society. I am wondering about the frugal-living people, if they view information (FREE) about healthier lifestyles as being worthwhile, or does the group merely exist to collect better recipes for QUICKER BEAN SOUP? QUICKER BEAN SOUP is frugal as one uses slightly less gas for preparation, and results in slightly more gas after preparation. Joel M. Eichen DDS >>> "This aplies to the frugal people as prevention is >>> more frugal than extensive therapy at the end of life." Thats not just at the end of life, its also almost universally true, with stuff like vaccination for prevention instead of the much more expensive treatment if you catch the disease etc. >> Yes, Dr. Eichen, you are so very right. >> Problem is, it must be taught at an age where >> children are still children and while growing up >> with no better instructions or counseling. >>The age varies when one finally gets a helpful >> degree of understanding, and by that time? >> Terribly imperfect world in so many ways. Yeah, particularly with other stupiditys like smoking. > Precisely, > I recall a time when doctors, regular M.D.s used x-ray machines > to treat kids for pimples and so-called "enlarged thyroids." > The cancers that developed 20 years later (all documented > epidemiologically) were strictly NOT FRUGAL for society. Sure, there have always been some stupiditys like that. On the whole tho things have improved out of sight medically over say the last century. In spades over the century before that. > I am wondering about the frugal-living people, if they view > information (FREE) about healthier lifestyles as being worthwhile, Its still not really that clear if the purported 'healthier lifestyles' actually are that worthwhile. The fad in my youth was for organised sport. Its now become clear that some sports have some massive health downsides, particularly with football and leg injurys etc, and with some codes you can even end up dead, quite literally. I can still remember the hospital physio which was completely dominated by football injurys in winter. Not really anything like a 'healthier lifestyle' in practice quite a bit of the time. Good post Rod, THANKS. Joel >I can still remember the hospital physio which was >completely dominated by football injurys in winter. > >Not really anything like a 'healthier lifestyle' >in practice quite a bit of the time. About QUICKER BEAN SOUP, beans added to Barley and mushroom soup sounds better. Gail Here is one opener ...... THIS APPLIES to the frugal people as prevention is more frugal than extensive therapy at the end of life ..... Joel M. Eichen J Bone Miner Res. 2004 Nov;19(11):1797-804. Epub 2004 Aug 23. Related Articles, Links Dissociation between global markers of bone formation and direct measurement of spinal bone formation in osteoporosis. Frost ML, Fogelman I, Blake GM, Marsden PK, Cook G Jr. Osteoporosis Screening and Research Unit, Guy's, King's, and St. Thomas' School of Medicine, King's College, London, United Kingdom. michelle.frost@kcl.ac.uk Regional bone metabolism measured using 18F-fluoride PET was assessed in 72 postmenopausal women classified as normal, osteopenic, or osteoporotic. Lower values of regional bone formation activity at the lumbar spine were seen in osteoporotic women, whereas global markers of bone formation were significantly increased. INTRODUCTION: Evaluations of global bone remodeling have revealed that increased bone turnover is a feature of patients with osteoporosis. The noninvasive functional imaging technique of 18F-fluoride positron emission tomography (PET) allows the direct quantitative assessment of bone metabolism at specific sites in the skeleton, including the clinically important site of the lumbar spine. MATERIALS AND METHODS: The aim of this study was to compare regional skeletal kinetics in 72 postmenopausal women (mean age, 61 years) classified as normal, osteopenic, or osteoporotic according to their BMD T score at the lumbar spine. Each woman had a dynamic PET scan of the lumbar spine after injection of 90 MBq 18F-fluoride ion and measurements of biochemical markers of bone formation and resorption. The arterial plasma input function was derived using aorta arterial activity from the PET image. Time-activity curves were obtained by placing regions of interest over the lumbar vertebrae. A three-compartmental model was used to calculate bone blood flow (K1) and the net plasma clearance of tracer to bone mineral (Ki), reflecting regional osteoblastic activity (ml/minutes/ml). Rate constants k2, k3, and k4, which describe transport between plasma, the extracellular fluid (ECF) compartment, and the bone mineral compartment, were also measured. RESULTS: The net uptake of fluoride to the bone mineral compartment (Ki) was significantly lower in the osteoporotic group compared with both the osteopenic and normal groups, with a mean difference of 0.005 ml/minutes/ml (16.7%). The fraction of the tracer in the extravascular tissue space that underwent specific binding to bone mineral (k3/k2 + k3) was also significantly reduced in the women classified as osteoporotic. In contrast, levels of bone-specific alkaline phosphatase (BSALP) were significantly higher in the osteoporotic group compared with the normal and osteopenic groups by 35% and 27%, respectively. A significant negative correlation (r = -0.41) was observed between levels of BSALP and the fraction of the tracer that underwent specific binding to bone mineral. CONCLUSION: Lower values of Ki, a measurement of regional bone formation activity, were seen in women classified as osteoporotic, whereas levels of BSALP, a measure of global bone formation, were significantly increased. These findings are suggestive of increased global skeletal bone turnover in women with postmenopausal osteoporosis but with relatively reduced regional bone formation at the predominantly trabecular site of the lumbar spine. PMID: 15476579 [PubMed - in process] >>Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >>in the body? UM MOM Susan > >Most definately. Brittle bones, especially. Do a search on skeletal >fluorosis. (that would be extreme, though) >Here is one opener ...... > >THIS APPLIES to the frugal people as prevention is more frugal than >extensive therapy at the end of life ..... > >Joel M. Eichen Get a new life or wife. Ohh wait, those don't come free. Nevermind. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Here is one opener ...... >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Ohh wait, those don't come free. >Nevermind. Just as word of explanation, dentistry has gone beyond the reach of 75% of the people we are dedicated to serve. Even those people who have DISCOUNT DENTAL PLANS, get baited-and-switched into God knows what. So my continual tips and schemes are to encourage people to become AUTHENTIC. No one needs the latest and the nicest to become self-actualized. Once you acquire that little piece of electronic crap, it often gets ignored, long before the payments for it are done. Dentistry too, has bought into the MARKETING and the SELLING-up of health care. So there. As you may have guessed, as a dentist who has also been a dental entrepreneur, FRUGALITY is not my main concern. It is the concern of many of my fellow travelers on planet earth. OK, back to you ...... but get ready Dude! Joel > So my continual tips and schemes are to encourage people to become > AUTHENTIC. No one needs the latest and the nicest to become > self-actualized. Once you acquire that little piece of electronic > crap, it often gets ignored, long before the payments for it are done. ....It sure happened with my Biolase Millennium One.... though that wasn't a gadget... just ask SF. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> So my continual tips and schemes are to encourage people to become >> AUTHENTIC. No one needs the latest and the nicest to become [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >wasn't a gadget... just ask SF. >SP Interesting. The paragraph was meant to be critical of MP3 players or whatever is the fad of the week, but the Millennium One is around $40K, right? What went wrong? Joel > Interesting. The paragraph was meant to be critical of MP3 players or > whatever is the fad of the week, but the Millennium One is around [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Joel 1) I didn't do my homework: I should have asked around and bought one from the company instead of a Kannnadian Supply House. The Biolase people would have told me that the M1 was being phased out, and for only another 10K CDN I could've had a WaterLase like SF has, with full company support. 2) I sterilized my handpiece in the Stat-IM, fogged up my handpiece's mirror and ended up with a system that has NO power what ever. It will take another USAian 10K$ to put it right, and there is NO quarantee. Take this and LEARN, for Thine is the Kingdom of Hi-Tech... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > >>Here is one opener ...... > >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > dental entrepreneur, FRUGALITY is not my main concern. It is the > concern of many of my fellow travelers on planet earth. It's not often a troll trips up so fast. Didn't you just say "So you are saying that FRUGAL DENTISTRY does not interest you as much as FRUGAL BEAN SOUP does? Joel PS- Every post concerning dentistry was to inform you how to get better dental care by being sensible. THANK GOD some of your colleagues see it differently!"? > OK, back to you ...... but get ready Dude! > > Joel > SignatureThis cross-post brought to you courtesy of Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen@yahoo.com>. Thank him personally and frequently | > >>Here is one opener ...... | > >> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] | > | > Joel Robert, I'll respond to this cross post once just to contact you and let your group know our sentiments. Please don't X-post Joel's crap back to sci.med.dentistry. It is not really fair to the regulars there. We've had to endure Joel and all his antics for quite some time now. He regularly X-posts to the most obscure groups he can find under the guise of promoting dentistry. Many of the regulars here have him filtered. Perhaps members of you group might choose to do the same. He'll leave your group before he leaves us. Sure he will pop back every now and then, but for some reason or another we are the ones stuck with the poor F***. Joel likes stirring things up, and thrives on antagonist interactions. I found his persona similar to the obnoxious drunk that crashes a party uninvited, gets his jollies out of offending everyone and refuses to leave. The guy is simply an offensive troll, your threats excite him like a masochist that is threatened with physical pain. Please don't continue to enable him. Thank you, SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply >I'll respond to this cross post once just to contact you and let your group know >our sentiments. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Thank you, Thank Roy for your kind support through the years. I appreciate it. Joel >It's not often a troll trips up so fast. Didn't you just say "So you are >saying that FRUGAL DENTISTRY does not interest you as much >as FRUGAL BEAN SOUP does? Actually both posts were interesting and the BEAN SOUP was described as QUICK or QUICKER. I took poetic license and made it into FRUGAL BEAN SOUP. Joel >Just as word of explanation, dentistry has gone beyond the reach of >75% of the people we are dedicated to serve. Even those people who >have DISCOUNT DENTAL PLANS, get baited-and-switched into God knows >what. Joel, if you feel so strongly about this I urge you to donate your time to the public health service. Me ? I have expenses. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Just as word of explanation, dentistry has gone beyond the reach of >>75% of the people we are dedicated to serve. Even those people who [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Me ? I have expenses. Cut back on the C2-H5-OH! Joel >>>Just as word of explanation, dentistry has gone beyond the reach of >>>75% of the people we are dedicated to serve. Even those people who [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Joel What an intrude on my C-4 budget ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE If you really want to provide useful information to us, could you PLEASE split those medline summaries into paragraphs following the usual standards? Does anybody here actually READ those solid chunks of text? Sorry, I don't even if the subject is of interest to me. SignatureCheers, Bev ============================================= A: Top posters. Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet? > If you really want to provide useful information to us, > could you PLEASE split those medline summaries > into paragraphs following the usual standards? > Does anybody here actually READ those solid chunks of text? I do scan them. > Sorry, I don't even if the subject is of interest to me. > > If you really want to provide useful information to us, > > could you PLEASE split those medline summaries [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > Sorry, I don't even if the subject is of interest to me. -.-. -... .- --. -... / -.-. . -... .. -. --.- -... With crohn's disease, I have enough problems with my bones, arthritis. If this is true then I want to know because I will get active in my state to stop the use of it. UM MOM Susan >>Are you saying that Fluoride can cause bone problems, arthritis?, anywhere >>in the body? UM MOM Susan > > Most definately. Brittle bones, especially. Do a search on skeletal > fluorosis. (that would be extreme, though) > >Please explain, do you mean jaw bones? UM MOM Susan > >> (snipped) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Joel [cut] This is where a website such as that of Peter Meirers should not be overlooked. He has collected so much historical data which, if I'm not mistaken has quite a bit of information on the history of fluoride use in bone disease. TW > ....... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >TW THanks,,, I am not surprised. Peter is quite helpful. Joel >>Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there >>isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Joel Joel, you stated that your water is only .3ppm. That is probably why you don't see many with fluorosis. Plus you don't see many kids in your office. >>>Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there >>>isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >you don't see many with fluorosis. Plus you don't see many kids in >your office. TRUE. But I see plenty of young adults who had fluoride ... some with no effects, others with some slight blotchiness. AGAIN, I have not looked into this extensively. Joel > >You are correct. Epidemiologically, there is no serious problem, there > >may be slight problems .... mostly detectable by dentists ..... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > you don't see many with fluorosis. Plus you don't see many kids in > your office. JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? 10-Q SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? >10-Q >SP I think you are asking Joel, however I am not sure if JME is his initials. I sent our sample to OMNII, plus I have our water quality report. If this was directed at Joel, please disregard. >>JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? >>10-Q [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >initials. I sent our sample to OMNII, plus I have our water quality >report. If this was directed at Joel, please disregard. YUP JME. NO, do not disregard. As with all posts, more replies are always better than less replies. JME aka Joel aka JoElY >> >You are correct. Epidemiologically, there is no serious problem, there >> >may be slight problems .... mostly detectable by dentists ..... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >10-Q >SP That's the figure from the Philadelphia Water Department (PWD) brochure that they send with the water bill. Joel > >JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? > >10-Q [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Joel ..... A... HA!!!! FamiliPrix!!!!! .... It'd be interesting to see how the published figure you have on that paper jives with what you have running out of your tap.... Just curious SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> >JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? >> >10-Q [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Just curious >SP Don't know about Joel's, but when I had our water tested, it came back a bit higher than the water dept stated. They claimed they add it up to .95ppm max, but it was 1 ppm when I had it tested. Not much higher, but still. >> >JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? >> >10-Q [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Just curious >SP I hope they stir the reservioir after dumping in several bags of fluoride! >JME, what did you use to measure your flouride level? >10-Q >SP We can only hope that it was a .38 Special... -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there >isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? >Some of these concerns that are being constantly posted by some leaves out >the fact that most people do not get symptoms from amalgams or fluoride. >Now, doesn't that say something? UM MOM Susan Probably. But I'd be willing to bet that most parents have no idea what the white spots or chalkiness on their kids teeth is. And don't forget, if I had not used fluoride toothpaste and let her swallow it twice per day, she would not have been THAT much over. Still over, but the toothpaste put her way over. If you look at some of the studies, as much as 60+% of kids have different degrees of fluorosis in many areas of the US. >>Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there >>isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >studies, as much as 60+% of kids have different degrees of fluorosis >in many areas of the US. Very astute. Thanks. Joel > >Nope, I agree! I just wonder with so many having so much fluoride why there > >isn't an a serious problem with lots and lots of people having problems? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > studies, as much as 60+% of kids have different degrees of fluorosis > in many areas of the US. Taking your child to a pediatric dentist every six months should do something to educate parents. There was a lot of sugar in those grapes you gave your daughter every day for nine months. Did that concern you at all? TW >Taking your child to a pediatric dentist every six months should do >something to educate parents. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >TW Here, the dentists don't want to see your child until 3 years old. Yes, the sugar in grapes is bad. I did not brush her after grapes, but she did drink water afterwards. I know, not good enough. But thank goodness I was not brushing 3 times per day with fluoride. "There was a lot of sugar in those grapes you gave your daughter every day for nine months." Had a neighbor dentist at one time years ago, who said eating fruit after sugar or sweets would clean the teeth. According to everything here, that is wrong. He was no dummy, (at least his mother thought "he had golden hands"). Was that the thinking at one time. Gail >"There was a lot of sugar in those grapes you gave your daughter every day for >nine months." > >Had a neighbor dentist at one time years ago, who said eating fruit after >sugar or sweets would clean the teeth. Its always good to swish your mouth with water, if you cannot get to your toothbrush! Joel >According to everything here, that is wrong. He was no dummy, (at least his >mother thought "he had golden hands"). This is so funny ....... GAIL! What city, by the way? Joel (You can probably guess why I am asking!) >Was that the thinking at one time. > >Gail "Golden Hands" "This is so funny........What city, by the way?" Chicago. Can't guess why you are asking. Took it with a grain of salt. You know Yiddishe mamas. Gail >"Golden Hands" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Gail Exactly! My mom told me that all the time! Joel >I think the American Academy of Pediatric Dentistry should have >something to say in explanation. Am I alone in thinking this? > >TW No, you are not alone. You know what aggravates me? I came across several websites that said the reason they decided on 1ppm for the drinking water is because the average child under 8 only drinks a quart of water per day. The average 8+ year old drinks a liter. Well, it is naive and WRONG for them to use that calculation. My toddler drinks a liter (minimum) and due to that, was over the ADA's recommended intake. Maybe they should have sent a mailer or something (the water dept) stating that if your child drinks more than a quart, give them non-fluoridated water for half of their consumption. I don't like it that the fluoride is forced on us by our water dept and then we are not warned about it. Keri >>Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >>attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Joel Joel, is there a pediatric section? POST IT THERE. Please. Keri >>>Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >>>attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Keri NOPE. Sorry. >Maybe it is time for the dentist and the consumers to bring it back to >attentions. Since the CDC and ADA won't answer Keri, why don't you give it >a try and see what they tell you? Couldn't hurt and it might help with the >understanding about the why. UM MOM Susan I tried this and had no takers. Thanks though. > >>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of > >>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Joel I am too. TW >> >>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >> >>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >TW And an interesting part of all this (THIS MONTH) is the awareness of the apathy about it! There has not been one dentist at any of the websites who has come forward and explained any of the 0.7 mg or 1.3 mg FLUORIDE limits. Whitening? Cosmetic makeovers? Those guys will not stop pitching their services. Joel >And an interesting part of all this (THIS MONTH) is the awareness of >the apathy about it! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Joel Sorry to hear that. Do pediatric dentists care? >>And an interesting part of all this (THIS MONTH) is the awareness of >>the apathy about it! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >Sorry to hear that. Do pediatric dentists care? I am still surprised. Joel > >And an interesting part of all this (THIS MONTH) is the awareness of > >the apathy about it! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > Sorry to hear that. Do pediatric dentists care? This is the last comment I am making that involves "Keri". I pity your children if you actually have any. I regret the need to make this expression to you, but I say I've read enough of what you have to say about everything. TW >This is the last comment I am making that involves "Keri". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >TW It seems like every few days you get fed up with me, and change personalities. What is the deal with that? If you don't want to be involved with me or my posts, that's just fine. But please quit going back and forth from being helpful to rude, and questioning whether I have kids or not. I am getting fed up with your multiple personalities towards me. Keri > >This is the last comment I am making that involves "Keri". > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Keri Those children of yours need to have a mother who thinks and acts like an adult. Do them and your family a favor: Go to some parenting classes. Learn what skills you lack and strive to develop them for the sake of everyone in your family. It will be time better spent than what you are doing in this newsgroup. TW Excellent advice, TW. > I am getting fed up with your multiple >> personalities towards me. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >TW -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >Those children of yours need to have a mother who thinks and acts like >an adult. Do them and your family a favor: Go to some parenting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >TW Its fine that you feel this way. My question to you, is what brings this on all of a sudden? It's like you are Jeckel and Hyde. Every few days you blow up and post something rude to me, for no apparant reason (other than assumtions). I am guessing you now think I have no children since I let her eat sugary grapes without brushing her teeth. Surely no parent would do that, right? Few parents brush their kid's teeth after every snack and meal. Twice a day is all I did it. Nevertheless, either hate me or not. Just please quit going back and forth. Or at least state what brings these sudden bursts of hate on. I cannot read your mind. >It will be time better spent than what >>you are doing in this newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Its fine that you feel this way. My question to you, is what brings >this on all of a sudden? It's like you are Jeckel and Hyde. TW is not what you insinuated. Kerry, you spell badly, are insulting, and frankly stupid. TW doesn't need me to take up for her, but your belligerence in the face of someone who has tried to understand your OCD has become intolerable. -Dr. Jekyll "The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" Robert Louis Stevenson -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >TW is not what you insinuated. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde" >Robert Louis Stevenson I'll seek help for OCD if The Webby gets help for Multiple Personality Disorder. Again, please ignore my posts, Mr. WB. Quit wasting your time with me. >>TW is not what you insinuated. >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >Disorder. Again, please ignore my posts, Mr. WB. Quit wasting your >time with me. That's Doctor to you. You waste my time, it is appropriate that I waste yours. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>It will be time better spent than what >>>you are doing in this newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >belligerence in the face of someone who has tried to >understand your OCD has become intolerable. First off, it's Keri. Secondly, TW has a rage problem. She is rude, then helpful, then rude, then helpful. She goes off an a tangent about choking with 5 posts on choking hazards, and all the while I am dicing up grapes, not serving them whole. Then she is helpful again, then she gets mad because I did not brush my kid's teeth after she ate grapes each day. So she swears me off again and insults me in the worst way possible. You guys think "I" am off? >Subject: Re: Public information re: caring for your child's teeth >From: Keri nospamplease_@address.com [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >grapes each day. So she swears me off again and insults me in the >worst way possible. You guys think "I" am off? W_B is a very nasty hateful man. Webby is a suck up and needs attention. She has displayed her lack of character many times over. The dentists defend her. She's a super borwn noser and nosey. Jan >>TW doesn't need me to take up for her, but your >>belligerence in the face of someone who has tried to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >grapes each day. So she swears me off again and insults me in the >worst way possible. You guys think "I" am off? TW has been around SMD far longer than you *Kerry* You haven't seen rude. BTW I have met SM IRL, and SM has met TW IRL. Haven't seen TW use swear words in SMD ever. On another note, W_B is a sailor, and can cuss a blue streak that would make another sailor blush. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >Subject: Re: Public information re: caring for your child's teeth >From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >TW has been around SMD far longer than you *Kerry* And has a history of being a despicable nosey biddy, caring not than she could have caused harm to an innocent person. Since she is a suck up brown noser, she can do or say anything, with the blessing or others JUST like her. She's also snobish and threatens. See at bottom. From: Chas (c...@nochange.com) Subject: Re: Jan Drew View: Complete Thread (139 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry Date: 2002-08-03 11:01:17 PST *My goodness! You really ARE a stalker! *Jan - report this bitch to her ISP: * a...@mesadrive.com > http://www.1stcong.sarasota.fl.us/bulletin/bulletin.html#Announcements > >MID HI IS WILLING TO WORK FOR YOU! > >The MID HI would like to remind everyone the RENT-A-KID program is still in > >existence. It includes babysitting, housecleaning, yard work, and lawn > >mowing. Contact Nancy Kavanagh or Jan Drew for more information; please > >allow one to two weeks lead time. Thanks to everyone for your support > >before, now and in the future! == You have a mission, I have a mission. I don't engage in your mission because I >know nothing about it. Several times you have taken me to task and stuck your >nose in without knowing the details. >Subject: Re: Serious violations can't be important From: >w...@thetmjiatroepidemic.com (Webby) Date: 12/11/2001 12:38 PM Eastern >Standard Time Message-id: <3c164489.16072...@news.thetmjiatroepidemic.com> >You'll have to read carefully for the annotations. Jan doesn't believe in >annotations. She's checking the teeth for the answer. >Webby >I find this unnccessary, it does nothing but show your true character, just >like your very first post to me. I don't and never had made light of your TMJ >problems. And the above statement is certainly incorrect. I have explained over >and over. >Belittling is a character flaw. >>Normally you do not annotate >Wrong. >>And you normally tell people to check the teeth when there is a problem. >Correction: >*IF* there is an *UNANSWERED* health problem. >>You could use a little sense of humor at a time like this. We all could. >That's the differnce between you and I. I don't find belittling funny. I have >never done it to you with your TMJ problem, and I expect same from you with my mercury poisoning problem. === Just a note: I own the following domain: scimeddentisty.com *and* I intend >to utilize it. You should think about why. >BTW I have met SM IRL, and SM has met TW IRL. I think they call that two degrees of separation! > And an interesting part of all this (THIS MONTH) is the awareness of > the apathy about it! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Whitening? Cosmetic makeovers? Those guys will not stop pitching their > services. Ever cared to look at www.fluoridealert.org (www.fluorideaction.net)? Connett explains there that none of the fluoridistas ever took up his invitation to publicly debate the issue with him. As usual: "there is no issue at all". -> Nothing to debate. Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- >>>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >>>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Joel I think dentists should get interested in it, you never know about crazy people out there who love to sue (not me). But there are dentists giving fluoride treatments to young children. A good dentist should ask alot of questions and then inform the patient about the pros and cons of fluoride. And pediatricians should refer to a dentist about these concerns. It was our pediatrician who told us to start fluoride at 18 months old. Keri >>>>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of >>>>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >dentist about these concerns. It was our pediatrician who told us to >start fluoride at 18 months old. REPLY I mentioned elsewhere that my staff thought I was kooky because I would not let them put fluoride on EVERYTONE, routinely! Joel >Keri > >>>information". It seems that the big problem at the moment is a lack of > >>>consistency in the information. How important is it that the public [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Keri Keri, what do you have to say about "cavities are contagious"? TW >Keri, what do you have to say about "cavities are contagious"? > >TW I totally agree with that. I don't let relatives (or myself) kiss my kids on the mouth. Especially my mother in law because she smokes and has a ton of gross bacteria in her mouth. > >Keri, what do you have to say about "cavities are contagious"? > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > kids on the mouth. Especially my mother in law because she smokes and > has a ton of gross bacteria in her mouth. One more comment: you don't have a clue do you? (Rhetorical question.) TW >> >Keri, what do you have to say about "cavities are contagious"? >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >TW Why cast your pearls before swine ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >> >Keri, what do you have to say about "cavities are contagious"? > >> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE I shall not make the mistake again, believe me. TW >> >One more comment: you don't have a clue do you? (Rhetorical question.) >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >TW Yes you will, as will all of us that care for the human race. Our largest fault is not knowing when to quit. Am just a bit quicker now, due to experience, knowing when to cut my losses. Shake the sand off of my sandals.... -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >Yes you will, as will all of us that care for the human race. >Our largest fault is not knowing when to quit. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Shake the sand off of my sandals... .... and please get some rest. You are overtired! Joel . >.... and please get some rest. You are overtired! > >Joel But not 'retired' ! <hehe> Am a bit cranky lately. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>.... and please get some rest. You are overtired! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Am a bit cranky lately. Lay off the sauce a bit. Joel >>Am a bit cranky lately. > >Lay off the sauce a bit. Picante ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>>Am a bit cranky lately. >> >>Lay off the sauce a bit. >> >Picante ? You wish ....... > >> >One more comment: you don't have a clue do you? (Rhetorical question.) > >> > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE Very frustrating... but I will do my best to let her go. TW >Very frustrating... but I will do my best to let her go. > >TW Good! After the things you said to me, I don't want to associate with you in any way. > >Very frustrating... but I will do my best to let her go. > > > >TW > > Good! After the things you said to me, I don't want to associate with > you in any way. |
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