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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004

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Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???

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G Fullen - 12 Dec 2004 16:02 GMT
Dear All,

Soon, I'm planning to undergo root canal re-treatment in two cases
because the X-ray indicates inflammation next to the end of the canals.
The original treatment took place about 7 years ago.

Is there a good chance (>80%) that the inflammation / bacterial
infection will really go away ? I read that due to the many
accessory micro-canals that a tooth has, it is very likely (!) that
the infection will continue, and persistent bacterial infection
may be the cause for chronic disease later in life (I'm 37).
I've read that such an infection may stay as an undetected, persistent
health hazard.

So, should I get these teeth extracted ?

Is surgery (removal of part of the root) a better alternative ?

Is there any other alternative ?

AFAIK the original treatment was done *without*
1) surgical microscope to find small canals
2) ultrasonic device
3) electronic length measurement
4) state-of-the-art nickel-titanium file system
5) calcium hydroxide for desinfection

Can I expect much better results if just improvements 2)-4) apply
for the retreatment ?
Or, should a microscope be used ? Can the micro-canals be found that way ?
Is calcium hydroxide the standard best desinfectant ?

What else could be done to improve the success rate ?

Note: I can provide the X-ray if desired; I would be happy
about a second expert opinion.
All the best wishes
G Fullen
Steven Bornfeld - 12 Dec 2004 16:15 GMT
> Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> All the best wishes
> G Fullen

    Seeing a scan of the x-rays would be helpful.
    When I see an obviously failed root canal treatment and the root canal
looks poorly done, I naturally think that re-treating it has a
significant chance of improving the outcome.  If the root canal
treatment is gorgeous and it fails anyway, I'm naturally more
circumspect with regard to the chances of success.  If there is a nice
post and crown on the tooth, I am more inclined to recommend surgical
treatment, since it will leave the crown intact--particularly if it is
an incisor or upper premolar tooth where surgical treatment is easiest.
 Some of these teeth have hidden cracks in the roots and will fail
whatever you do.  An endodontist with an operating microscope is more
likely to be able to diagnose these fractures, find previously missed
canals,etc.
    Incidentally, I do not retreat any root canals myself.  If a root canal
has been treated and subsequently failed (whether I've done the root
canal myself or not), I feel it deserves the expertise and armamentarium
of an endodontist.

Steve
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 12 Dec 2004 22:12 GMT
I'll retreat if the problem is obvious ie short fill  or obvious
unfilled canal, if it is anything else and that tooth is important for
restorative success, I too will refer those out to an endodontist who
has a surgical microscope, does these every day  etc...
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Dec 2004 17:41 GMT
>Dear All,
>
>Soon, I'm planning to undergo root canal re-treatment in two cases
>because the X-ray indicates inflammation next to the end of the canals.
>The original treatment took place about 7 years ago.

We would need to see the x-ray of course ......

>Is there a good chance (>80%) that the inflammation / bacterial
>infection will really go away ?

See above.

> I read that due to the many
>accessory micro-canals that a tooth has, it is very likely (!) that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>So, should I get these teeth extracted ?

Nope, post x-ray!

>Is surgery (removal of part of the root) a better alternative ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>All the best wishes
>G Fullen
gf_private@gmx.net - 22 Dec 2004 17:19 GMT
Dear All,

First, I'm very grateful for the feedback I received up to now on the
topic of root canal retreatment versus extraction.

Imagine there is a 10% personal risk, considering that my immune system
deteriorates as time goes by, that the mainstrean opinion "root canals
are safe" turns out to be incorrect, and some chronic disease develops
e.g. due to constant low-level inflammation. I believe I can only
tolerate such risk if a similar risk exists if teeth are extracted. So,
what are the risks of careful tooth extraction followed by bridging the
gap ? (As before, please ask me for the X-Ray via email. I don't want
to post the URL here because it's a free Web-hosting service that will
only accept three downloads per hour since the file is quite large (and
I also don't want the image floating around)).

After some intensive literature review, my impression is that a risk is
also seen in the peer-reviewed literature, eg
Murray CA, Saunders WP.
Root canal treatment and general health: a review of the literature.
Int Endod J. 2000 Jan;33(1):1-18.
who conclude:
"With an enhanced awareness amongst the population toward their general
health and an increasing concern that disturbance of the periradicular
tissues may potentially cause systemic upset, it is necessary to
ascertain whether root canal therapy is indeed exacerbating or causing
ill health. There is currently an international body of dental
practitioners who refuse to perform root canal treatment, reciting the
research performed 70-80 years ago to justify this stance. However,
there is neither recent scientific evidence nor studies to support this
view. Further scientific research is required to establish the
relationship between pulpally induced or treatment-fostered
periradicular disease and systemic health."
Best wishes and season's greetings,
G Fullen
W_B - 22 Dec 2004 17:29 GMT
>Dear All,
>
>First, I'm very grateful for the feedback I received up to now on the
>topic of root canal retreatment versus extraction.

American Association of Endodontists.

www.aae.org
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 00:51 GMT
>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net

>www.aae.org

Organized dentistry.

The same ones who stated mercury amalgams do not leak, when they got caught in
that lie, they made up a bigger one

===========

The legal position of the American Dental Association (ADA) on the safety of
mercury containing dental amalgam and the use of the material by dentists in
the United States was recently stated as follows:

"The ADA owes no legal duty of care to protect the public from allegedly
dangerous products used by dentists. The ADA did not manufacture, design,
supply or install the mercury-containing amalgams. The ADA does not control
those who do. The ADA's only alleged involvement in the product was to provide
information regarding its use. Dissemination of information relating to the
practice of dentistry does not create a duty of care to protect the public from
potential injury".

=========

http://store.publicintegrity.org/527/search.aspx?act=com&more=orgs&orgid=38

Contributions to 527 Committees Made by American Dental Association

The chart below shows each 527 committee the selected donor contributed to
since August 2000. Click committee name for a summary of activity.
Committee Amount Received

American Dental PAC Education Fund $948,882
21st Century Freedom PAC NonFederal $61,400
Republican Governors Association $25,000
KOMPAC State Victory Fund $25,000
Republican Main Street Partnership $10,000
Democratic Majority PAC $5,000
Tobacco Settlement for Tobacco Prevention and Health $2,700
New Jersey Senate 2002 $2,000
Joel M. Eichen - 23 Dec 2004 13:06 GMT
>>www.aae.org
>
>Organized dentistry.

Goode Olde Boye ande Girle Clubbe .....
Adenosine - 22 Dec 2004 22:19 GMT
>Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>are safe" turns out to be incorrect, and some chronic disease develops
>e.g. due to constant low-level inflammation.

You have to imagine the risk because it doesn't exist.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
Jan - 23 Dec 2004 00:25 GMT
>Subject: Re: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>From: Adenosine adeno@nospam4u.org
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>You have to imagine the risk because it doesn't exist.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Click root canals.

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.

>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
>required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
>fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
>the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.

>The warning will read as follows:

>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:

>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
>to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
>defects or other reproductive harm.

>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
>bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.

>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
>approved for use all dental restorative materials.

>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
>treatment.

>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
>Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
>dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.

>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
>Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
>advocacy and activism in the public interest.

>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
>potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
>problem is that it's about 100 years too late."

>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
>filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
>widely used substance in dental fillings today.

>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
>of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.

>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
>Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
>private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
>employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking
>Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].

>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
>persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or
>reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental
>amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit
>was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
>restorative materials in dental offices.

>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
>than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
>fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
>$2,500 per day.

>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at
>415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.

>###

Jan
W_B - 22 Dec 2004 22:58 GMT
>As before, please ask me for the X-Ray via email.

Send the x-ray to my yahoo addy.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 23 Dec 2004 16:51 GMT
Unless your name is J...n dre...  , ,,,,,,or you prefer to have your medical
and dental care done based on research done in 1918 (which was proven false
about three years later), don't worry about RCT.  It is a very safe and
efficacious method of saving teeth.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Best wishes and season's greetings,
> G Fullen
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 00:21 GMT
>Subject: Re: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>From: "Dr Steve" nospam@home.net
>Date: 12/23/2004 8:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <LICyd.5179$by5.4720@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>
>
>Unless your name is J...n dre...  , ,,,,,,or

hyda

or

CubicAirconia

you prefer to have your medical
>and dental care done based on research done in 1918 (which was proven false
>about three years later

Proof please?

>don't worry about RCT.  It is a very safe and
>efficacious method of saving teeth.

Saving DEAD teeth.

Of course Steve tells nursing mothers there is no danger of getting dental work
done, that most definitely incorrect.

Brodin P Roed A Aars H Orstavik D [J Dent Res (1982 Aug) 61(8):1020-3 ]
Inhibitory effects of root filling materials on the conduction of action
potentials evoked in rat phrenic nerves were evaluated in vitro. Endomethasone
and N2 Normal completely and irreversibly inhibited conductance; ProcoSol
caused complete but reversible inhibition; Kloroperka N-O caused total
inhibition which was sometimes reversed; and AH26 and Diaket showed partial
inhibition which was partially reversible.

Comparative neurotoxic effects of root canal filling materials on rat sciatic
nerve.

Serper A Ucer O Onur R Etikan I [J Endod (1998 Sep) 24(9):592-4 ]
The neurotoxic effects of the root canal filling materials-- Endomethasone, N2
Universal, Traitment SPAD, Sealapex, and Calciobiotic Root Canal Sealer
(CRCS)--were investigated on isolated rat sciatic nerves after local
application. All of the canal filling materials reversibly inhibited the
compound action potential (cAP) amplitudes. N2 Universal produced a 50%
inhibition in 4.2 +/- 0.2 min. Traitement SPAD, Endomethasone, and CRCS
produced the same inhibition in 6.4 +/- 0.3, 6.5 +/- 0.2, and 6.6 +/- 1.1 min,
and Sealapex in 9.2 +/- 2.0 min. The inhibitory effect of Sealapex decreased
fastest, and 43% recovery of cAP amplitude was observed in 60 to 70 min. The
inhibitory effects of Endomethasone, CRCS, and N2 Universal were more
pronounced, and 10 to 20% recovery in cAP amplitudes were observed in 2 h. The
inhibitory effect of Traitement SPAD was more persistent with 4% recovery in
2.5 h.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Most of the materials used for root canal therapy mentioned above are still in
common usage throughout the world. The argument that there are only tiny
amounts which enter the rest of the body is a nonsensical. Reality is that
there is a little bit entering the circulation all of the time. Transport of
materials from dead teeth to the rest of the body including the brain, is well
documented - there is no excuse for dentistry to continue to place these
materials into living organisms. This is particularly so considering that these
papers are published in the foremost dental journals.
======

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://www.notdoctors.com/cavdoc9.html

Root Canals and cancer

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment

Following are some of the most common questions we receive.

How do I find a good dentist?
My dentist does not believe mercury fillings are bad but will change them for
me if I insist. Should I?
Where is your office?
How much does it cost?
What are the materials you use?
Do I need to replace my crowns?
I do not want to wear partials.
Why are most dentists still using mercury?
What is the worst treatment done by dentists?
Why is it critical to clean the socket after an extraction?
What are cavitations?
How do you reconcile what you do with what Dr. Clark recommends?
What about the bacterium Clostridium?
What should I use to detox?
Should I drink fluoridated water?
What should I use for toothpaste?
Will my insurance pay for changing my fillings?
What does it cost more than the "usual and customary fee" to have fillings
done?
Q: How do I find a good dentist?

A: It is not possible for me to recommend specific dentists, as I do not know
what any individual dentists will do, but I will tell you where you can find
lists of dentists who have varying beliefs.

It is important to inquire if a dentist will do what you want done. You should
feel free to ask questions when you call. It is helpful to have your questions
written down before you call so you do not forget anything.

Q: My dentist does not believe mercury fillings are bad but will change them
for me if I insist. Should I?

A: Doing composites is much more difficult than mercury fillings. Experience is
very important. It is common for dentists who are not familiar with these
procedures to do them poorly, even leaving pieces of mercury under the
fillings. It is common for such work to have to be redone. This doubles the
expense and increases the risks to your teeth. It is also very probable that
you will be exposed to more mercury than would be the case with a dentist who
takes the proper precautions. Therefore, it would be beneficial to find a
dentist with specific experience with composites.

Q: Where is your office?

A: My office is one hour directly south of Indianapolis, IN on I-65. 639
Washington Street Columbus, IN 47203 1-812-376-8525

Q: How much does it cost?

A: The costs vary so much it is impossible to give any estimates without seeing
the patient. It is critical that you plan to get all the mercury out and not
let a dentist talk you into crowning your teeth so that you run out of money
before finishing. A plan must be made that you can understand everything and be
sure that you can afford the costs before you start. Doing half will not remove
half of the risk.

Q: What are the materials you use?

A: Espe was bought out by 3M. Visiofil was suddenly removed from the market
last month because they wanted to streamline their product line. Finding a
suitable replacement will not be easy. Compatibility testing may be the only
way for an individual to find a material that is acceptable. I will post any
new developments.

Crowns are Sculpture/Fibrekor or Targis/Vectris. Partials are made with
Flexite. Dentures are methyl-methacrylate (clear with some pink for
appearance).

Q: Do I need to replace my crowns?

A: We do not insist that patients do anything but all crowns have major
problems. Most have metals which are of unknown composition. Even gold crowns
have many other metals combined with the gold. Even if the metals are known,
most are not really pure and have tagalong impurities which vary greatly. It is
also impossible to know what is under the crowns. It is common for mercury to
be left there. You may wish to do the mercury fillings first, but if you really
want to clean your body of metals, it is necessary to remove the metal crowns.

Q: I do not want to wear partials.

A: It is common for patients to not want to wear partials. It is true that they
are a compromise and you must take particular attention to keeping your teeth
very clean. The alternatives are troublesome. Crowns, bridges, and implants all
have many problems. Using any of them may cause further damage and more loss of
tooth structure. Many people are wearing partials successfully. I have for a
decade. I would not think to have any other type of dentistry done as the risks
are too great.

Q: Why are most dentists still using mercury?

A: Most dentists take their lead from the American Dental Association which is
a trade organization of dentists who use mercury. (At one time I, too, believed
what they said about the safety of mercury). Until dentists face legal or
governmental action, they will continue using mercury which is fast and
convenient.

Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?

A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead, infected
organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root
canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

I decided to have the tooth extracted. Below you can see photos of the root end
of the extracted tooth.

Every dental expert to whom I have shown this tooth has agreed that removing
the tooth was a very good decision. It looks to most as though the tooth and
amalgam had been under direct assault by my immune system which was carrying
the filling and tooth away bit by bit. By viewing the images below and my x-ray
from 1990, one can see noticeable amounts of material missing.

(see x-rays)

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

Price was able to implant extracted root canal teeth under the skin of rabbits
after removing them from patients with various illnesses. The rabbit would
become ill with precisely the same primary disease that the human tooth donor
had -- arthritis; heart lesions: kidney, liver, and gallbladder disease;
anemia; pneumonia; appendicitis; eye, ear, and skin disorders; and nervous
system disorders, among them.

Every tooth has its own capsule in the jawbone called the periodontal ligament,
which was always routinely left behind after extractions. Huggins reasoned that
the deep-seated root canal infections likely infected this ligament as well,
and conditions of chronic infection could persist even without the root canal
tooth being any longer in place. He then initiated a quick and simple routing
out of this ligament, along with about 1 millimeter of surrounding jawbone
following extractions. By following this procedure, the residual infection is
removed and the site can now heal.

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

A root filled tooth no longer has any fluid circulating through it, but the
maze of tubules remains. The anaerobic bacteria that live there seem remarkably
safe from antibiotics. The bacteria can migrate out into surrounding tissue
where they can "hitch hike" to other locations in the body via the bloodstream.
The new location can be any organ or gland or tissue, and the new colony will
be the next focus of infection in a body plagued by recurrent or chronic
infections.

All of the "building up" done to try to enhance the patient's ability to fight
infections - to strengthen their immune system - is only a holding action. Many
patients won't be well until the source of infection - the root canal tooth -
is removed.

Just pulling the tooth is not enough when removal proves necessary. Dr. Price
found bacteria in the tissues and bone just adjacent to the tooth's root. So we
now recommend slow-speed drilling with a burr, to remove one millimeter of the
entire bony socket. The purpose is to remove the periodontal ligament (which is
always infected with toxins produced by streptococcus bacteria living in the
dentin tubules) and the first millimeter of bone that lines the socket (which
is usually infected).

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

A root canals is one of the worst things you can allow a dentist to do to you.
The book Root Canal Cover-up by Dr. George Meinig, D.D.S., F.A.C.D., reveals
that the root canal procedure traps bacteria in the dentin tubules. These
bacteria proliferate and can produce toxins that can travel all over the body
lowering the body's immune system and causing serious health problems.

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

When a dentist performs a root canal, he/she is trying to remove the dead nerve
tissue and disinfect the interior of the tooth. Many times the procedure is
successful. Many times it is not. Dentin is composed of small tubules. A
bicuspid tooth has 2-3 miles of dentinal tubules. It has been shown that the
bacteria can live in these tubules and continue to produce toxins that can get
to other parts of the body. The root canal can appear to be successful because
there is no longer any pain yet be the breeding ground for a countless number
of bacteria.

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

==

The agreement
>requires its member dentists to warn patients about the toxic dangers of
>mercury dental fillings and root canals.

http://tinyurl.com/3reba
Jan - 24 Dec 2004 01:26 GMT
>Subject: Re: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>From: jdrew63929@aol.com  (Jan)
>Date: 12/23/2004 4:21 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041223192111.08102.00002752@mb-m05.aol.com>

I apologize. I didn't realize the catch the entire coping of the complete
article, under:

>http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm#treatment

I only meant to post this question.

>Q: What is the worst treatment done by dentists?

>A: While mercury is toxic and can do terrible things to nerve tissue, it does
>it slowly over decades. The treatment that can have the biggest and fastest
>impact on the body is root canal therapy. The idea of keeping a dead,
>infected
>organ in the body is only thought to
organ in the body is only thought to be a good idea by dentists. A root
>canal-treated tooth always negatively affects your immune system.

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 13:17 GMT
>I apologize. I didn't realize the catch the entire coping of the complete
>article, under:

INDCREDIBLE, Jan apologizes for misinforming the public.

Thanks,

Joel
Jan - 12 Dec 2004 18:55 GMT
>Subject: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>From: gf_private@gmx.net  (G Fullen)
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>All the best wishes
>G Fullen

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.

>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
>required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
>fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
>the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.

>The warning will read as follows:

>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:

>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
>to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
>defects or other reproductive harm.

>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
>bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.

>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
>approved for use all dental restorative materials.

>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
>treatment.

>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
>Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
>dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.

>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
>Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
>advocacy and activism in the public interest.

>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
>potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
>problem is that it's about 100 years too late."

>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
>filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
>widely used substance in dental fillings today.

>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
>of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.

>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
>Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
>private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
>employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking

>Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].
>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
>restorative materials in dental offices.

>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
>than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
>fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
>$2,500 per day.

>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at

>415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.

>###

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Dec 2004 19:01 GMT
>>All the best wishes
>>G Fullen

Thanks for your astute dental advice Jan.

Too bad its wrong!

Joel
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 12 Dec 2004 22:15 GMT
Don't listen to Jan, she does not know what she is talking about.
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Dec 2004 23:07 GMT
>Don't listen to Jan, she does not know what she is talking about.

So far, everyone concurs ......

Except Clinton Zimmerman, her brother-in-law!

Joel
Jan - 13 Dec 2004 01:19 GMT
>Subject: Re: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
>Date: 12/12/2004 2:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <1102889725.481765.238350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
>
>Don't listen to Jan, she does not know what she is talking about.

You fell flat on your face as *I* didn't write the websites.

One can note what is happening in the states listed.

Jan

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/RCTframeset.htm

http://www.ericdavisdental.com/root_canals.htm

http://www.whale.to/d/root2.html

http://www.drshankland.com/rootcanal.html

http://webpages.charter.net/kyarbrough/rootcanals.htm

http://www.dentistry-toothtruth.com/faq.htm

http://www.cfsn.com/maz/

http://cnorman.best.vwh.net/blazing/dental.html

http://rheumatic.org/teeth.htm

http://www.zip.com.au/~rgammal/root_therapies.htm

http://zap.intergate.ca/root.html

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

http://www.dentistryholistic.com/education.html

http://www.hugnet.com/Root_Canals.html

http://www.karlloren.com/ultrasound/p25.htm

http://www.hallvtox.dircon.co.uk/hallvt.html

Root Canals. A tooth has miles of tiny canals running through the root. A dead
or root filled tooth will have bacteria in these canals. There is no way of
removing the bacteria once they are in there.

http://www.toothwisdom.net/

Toxicity from Root Canals

The next subject to be discussed are root canals and their possible source of
toxicity. Approximately twenty five million Americans undergo root canal
therapy every year in an effort to prevent the loss of teeth that have
abscessed. The root canal is the left portion of the tooth which houses the
vital organs such as the nerve and blood vessels. The dentist endeavors to
clean and sterilize this canal and fill it with a sterile, non toxic inert
material. This usually renders this tooth serviceable and non painful; however,
the entire inner hard core of the tooth is made of dentin which has several
million dentinal tubules. These tubules allow the circulation of lymphatic type
fluid to circulate from the vital organs of the root canal to the outside of
the tooth. This is a viable circulatory phenomenon which has a purpose. It
services the periodontal ligament as well as the sensory aspect of the nerve
and blood centers in the root canal. If the body chemistry is healthy, the flow
of lymphatic fluid is from the root canal to the outside of the tooth. This
creates an irrigation for the tooth and usually prevents the accumulation of
plaque to form. When the body chemistry is not healthy, then the circulation is
from the outside of the tooth to the inner root canal. This allows for no
irrigation, but rather an accumulation of plaque to form. There are many more
reasons for maintaining the integrity of the circulation in the dentinal
tubules. Root canal therapy completely destroys this integrity, and what
happens to the non-circulating fluid in these tubules? This fluid as it ages
becomes stagnant and becomes a toxic substance. This porous structure now
becomes a septic mass emanating poisons into the body. Is this what you want?
Mercury amalgams are said to be the caskets of the body. Root canals are said
to be the cadavers of the body.

I do not recommend root canals for anyone. Each individual has a right to their
decisions. Many people simply do not wish to lose a member of their body. I
respect this, and I always discuss the consequences.

The next area of discussion is whether the root canal filling actually
sterilizes the apical end of the tooth. There are so many lateral canals at the
root end of the tooth where bacteria can harbor that it is unlikely that a
complete aseptic condition exists. This, however, is a debateable subject.
Again, the complete acceptance of root canal therapy as a viable substitution
for extraction is completely and whole heartedly supported by organized
dentistry. You are in violation of the code of ethics if you speak out against
root canal therapy. When I was a practicing dentist, I always let the patient
make that decision after explaining all pros and cons.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -

>California Judge Approves Landmark Warning on Mercury Use in Dentistry.

>(San Francisco, CA) - For the first time anywhere, dentists will be
>required to post a warning about the dangers of mercury in their dental
>fillings. A California Superior court judge finalized the language for
>the warning to be posted in dentists' offices here today.

>The warning will read as follows:

>Notice to Patients, Proposition 65:

>Warning on dental amalgams, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure
>to mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth
>defects or other reproductive harm.

>Root canal treatments and restorations including fillings, crowns and
>bridges, use chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer.

>The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has studied the situation and
>approved for use all dental restorative materials.

>Consult your dentist to determine which materials are appropriate for your
>treatment.

>The exact language of the warning was argued and then finalized before
>Superior Court Judge James A. Robertson II between the California Dental
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>mercury dental fillings and root canals. The agreement also allows non-CDA
>dentists to opt in to the agreement and post the warning.

>The warning is the result of a lawsuit filed by The Law Offices of Shawn
>Khorrami on behalf of As You Sow, a not-for-profit foundation dedicated to
>advocacy and activism in the public interest.

>"This is the first admission by organized dentistry that amalgams pose a
>potential health risk," says Shawn Khorrami, lead attorney. "The only
>problem is that it's about 100 years too late."

>This California consent judgment follows on the heels of recent lawsuits
>filed in Georgia, Texas, Ohio and Los Angeles, California charging that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>risks to certain users. Mercury, a highly toxic substance, is the most
>widely used substance in dental fillings today.

>The use of mercury-based thimerosal in vaccines also has been the source
>of the recent controversy in the Homeland Security legislation.

>Khorrami filed the lawsuit against Roger Fieldman D.D.S., Inc., the
>Citadel Dental Group, Inc. dental offices, dental laboratories and
>private dental schools and training programs with more than nine
>employees. The suit won the enforcement of Proposition 65, Safe Drinking
>Water and Toxics Enforcement Act [Health & Safety Code § 25249.6].

>Proposition 65 requires that a clear and reasonable warning be provided to
>persons prior to their exposure to a chemical known to cause cancer or
>reproductive harm. This statute lists mercury, contained in dental
>amalgam, as a substance that can cause reproductive toxicity. The lawsuit
>was based on the absence of warnings to patients treated with amalgam
>restorative materials in dental offices.

>The judgment on Proposition 65 mandates that all dental offices with more
>than nine employees provide warnings on the dangers of Mercury dental
>fillings to patients. Those in non-compliance could incur a fine of up to
>$2,500 per day.

>Press may contact: Jackie Gladfelter at 650-218-1856 or D. Infusino at
>415-225-7970; call Attorney Shawn Khorrami at 818-947-5111.

>###

Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 13 Dec 2004 11:59 GMT
>>Subject: Re: Root Canal Retreatment OR Extraction ???
>>From: "Alexander Vasserman DDS" purple543210@yahoo.ca
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>You fell flat on your face as *I* didn't write the websites.

OK correction here.

Jan and her friends do not know what THEY are talking about.

Joel

>One can note what is happening in the states listed.
>
[quoted text clipped - 162 lines]
>
>Jan
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 24 Dec 2004 08:26 GMT
Forget about the websites just her explanation about lymph nodes inside
teeth says it all. No wonder she could not find a single dentist on
dental town to side with her and her quacky ideas.
W_B - 24 Dec 2004 19:35 GMT
>Forget about the websites just her explanation about lymph nodes inside
>teeth says it all. No wonder she could not find a single dentist on
>dental town to side with her and her quacky ideas.

Lymph nodes inside teeth ?

Makes me glad that I'm not a 'member' of DT...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Dec 2004 22:44 GMT
>Lymph nodes inside teeth ?
>
>Makes me glad that I'm not a 'member' of DT...
>
>--
>W_B

There are no lymph nodes inside teeth?

Joel
W_B - 27 Dec 2004 15:53 GMT
>>Lymph nodes inside teeth ?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Joel

My histology is a bit rusty.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 27 Dec 2004 17:29 GMT
>>There are no lymph nodes inside teeth?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>--
>W_B

When did they remove lymph nodes from teeth?
W_B - 13 Dec 2004 22:41 GMT
>Dear All,
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>So, should I get these teeth extracted ?

Let's have a look at that x-ray.

>Is surgery (removal of part of the root) a better alternative ?

Not usually, but sometimes.

>Is there any other alternative ?

Implants.

>AFAIK the original treatment was done *without*
>1) surgical microscope to find small canals
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Can I expect much better results if just improvements 2)-4) apply
>for the retreatment ?

It's more about the skill of the operator than the instrumentation.

>Or, should a microscope be used ? Can the micro-canals be found that way ?

I can usually find them with 2.5X magnification.

>Is calcium hydroxide the standard best desinfectant ?
It's what I use if the canals won't dry.

>What else could be done to improve the success rate ?

A first rate Endodontist

check out:  www.aae.org

>Note: I can provide the X-ray if desired; I would be happy
>about a second expert opinion.
>All the best wishes
>G Fullen

Sure thing.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
 
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