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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005Measuring Amalgam Potentials
The following is from the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" website: "Very sensitive measuring devices which can pick up tiny magnetic fields can detect neural activity without needing to poke electrodes directly into neurons, " See: http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm I believe that it should be possible to measure "neural activity" in the vicinity of the teeth of individuals both with and without metal amalgam dental fillings and compare the results. Does anyone disagree? Keith P Walsh PS, it has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm And the resting potential of the human neurological synapse is only 70 millivolts. >The following is from the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" >website: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >See: This is true. All nerve conduction is electrochemical in nature .... Joel >http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >And the resting potential of the human neurological synapse is only 70 >millivolts. >>The following is from the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" >>website: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Joel Eels pack more punch than 350 mV too! >>http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>And the resting potential of the human neurological synapse is only 70 >>millivolts. >Eels pack more punch than 350 mV too! It is the natural function of the human neurological system to transmit electrical (neurological) signals. However, it is not the natural function of the human neurological system to be permanently dissipating the electrical potentials generated by metal amalgam dental fillings. Apparently, "very sensitive measuring devices which can pick up tiny magnetic fields can detect neural activity." See: http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm I think that it should therefore be possible to detect neurological activity in the vicinity of the teeth of individuals both with and without metal amalgam dental fillings and compare the results. Do you agree? Keith P Walsh PS, it has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm And the resting potential of the human neurological synapse is only 70 millivolts. > PS, it has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental > fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 > millivolts. Wrong! 468mV is my record. Enyone can find more? Competition? All the best, Proka >>The following is from the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" >>website: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Joel Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials generated by metal amalgam dental fillings (*) are able to influence neurological activity in their immediate vicinity? Keith P Walsh (*) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm >>>The following is from the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" >>>website: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >generated by metal amalgam dental fillings (*) are able to influence >neurological activity in their immediate vicinity? Hey Keioth! The action potentials are within cells and between intracellular and extracellular space. Dental amalgams are in teeth and as such are totally outside the inner body. No potential between amalgams and cells! Joel >Keith P Walsh > >(*) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm >Hey Keioth! > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >No potential between amalgams and cells! Is this assertion supported by the findings of any relevant experimental investigations? Or are you just guessing? Keith P Walsh > Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out > in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials > generated by metal amalgam dental fillings (*) are able to influence > neurological activity in their immediate vicinity? No idea but I do remember my dentist years ago applying a voltage to one of my damaged teeth to see if it was still alive. It's 25 years ago but I remember the pain alright. I thought he said the voltage was 0.3V for one tooth and 0.6V for another. If thats correct and fillings produce 300mV we would be in agony all the time. >> Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out >> in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >tooth and 0.6V for another. If thats correct and fillings produce 300mV we >would be in agony all the time. That is conductivity which is present in vital teeth and often absent in devital teeth.. Known as Electric Pulp Test. Joel >> Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out >> in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >tooth and 0.6V for another. If thats correct and fillings produce 300mV we >would be in agony all the time. REPLY Here is a reference from OHSU Graduate Endodontics ...... or alternatively, just ask Jan Drew ..... Joel ** GRADUAT ENDODONTOLOGY CLASSIC LITERATURE REVIEW SEMINAR DIAGNOSTIC EXAMINATION AND CLINICAL TESTING FALL 2003 The purpose of this seminar is to introduce the student to the principles and procedures of various testing methods used in the clinical endodontic examination. SPECIFIC LEARNING OBJECTIVES: Upon completion of this seminar the student will be able to: Classify pulp and periapical diseases and their clinical features. Discuss the importance and limitations of and procedures for the clinical examination of the soft tissues and periodontium as related to the endodontic examination. Discuss the importance and limitations of and procedures for the clinical pulp and periapical tests involved in the endodontic examination. TEXT REFERENCE Principles and Practice of Endodontics, ed 3; Walton, RE and Torabinejad, M, eds. W.B. Saunders Company, 2002. p. 49-70, 499-519. 1969 *Van Hassel HJ, Harrington GW. Localization of pulpal sensation. Oral Surg 28:753-760. 1969. 1976 *Fulling HJ, Andreasen JO. Influence of maturation status and tooth type of permanent teeth upon electrometric and thermal pulp testing. Scand J Dent Res 84:286-290. 1976. 1977 *White JH, Cooley RL. A quantitative evaluation of thermal pulp testing. J Endodon 3:453-457. 1977. 1980 *Trowbridge HO, Franks M, Korostoff E, Emling R. Sensory response to thermal stimulation in human teeth. J Endodon 6:405-412. 1980. *Cooley RL, Robison SF. Variables associated with electric pulp testing. Oral Surg 50:66-73. 1980. 1981 *Augsburger RA, Peters DD. In vitro effects of ice, skin refrigerant, and CO2 snow on intrapulpal temperature. J Endodon 7:110-116. 1981. 1982 Abou-Rass M. The stressed pulp condition: An endodontic restorative diagnostic concept. J Pros Dent 1982; 48:264-267. 1983 *Peters DD, Lorton L, Mader CL, Augsburger RA, Ingram TA. Evaluation of the effects of carbon dioxide used as a pulpal test. I. In vitro effect on human enamel. J Endodon 9:219-227. 1983. 1986 *Fuss Z, Trowbridge H, Bender IB, Rickoff B, Sorin S. Assessment of reliability of electrical and thermal pulp testing agents. J Endodon 12:301-305. 1986. 1988 *Rickoff B, Trowbridge H, Baker J, Fuss Z, Bender IB. Effects of thermal vitality tests on human dental pulp. J Endodon 14:482-485. 1988. 1989 *Bender IB, Landau MA, Fonsecca S, Trowbridge,HO. The optimum placement site of the electrode in electronic pulp testing of the 12 anterior teeth. J Amer Dent Assoc 118:305-310. 1989. 1993 Pantera EA, Anderson RW, Pantera CT. Reliability of electric pulp testing after pulpal testing with dichlorodifluoromethane. J Endodon 19:312-314. 1993. 1994 Peters DD, Baumgartner JC, Lorton L. Adult pulpal diagnosis I. Evaluation of the positive and negative responses to cold and electrical pulp tests. J Endodon 20:506-511. 1994. 1995 Brown RS, Hinderstein B, Reynolds DC, Corio RL. Using anesthetic localization to diagnose oral and dental pain. JADA 126:633-641. 1995. 1996 Turp JC, Gobetti JP. The cracked tooth syndrome: an elusive diagnosis. JADA 127:1502-1507. 1996. 1998 Marshall JG, Morgan LA. Endodontic Diagnosis and treatment planning. ClarkÂClinical Dentistry 1998;4:1-19. 1999 Tidwell E, Witherspoon DE, Gutman JL, Vreland DL, Sweet PM. Thermal sensitivity of endodontically treated teeth. Int Endo J 1999;32:138-145. Petersson K, Soderstrom C, Kiani-Anaraki M, Levy G. Evaluation of the ability of thermal and electrical tests to register pulp vitality. Endodon Dent Traum 1999;15:127-131. 2001 Yanpiset K, Vongsavan N, Sigrudsson A, Trope M. Efficacy of laser dopler flowmetry for diagnosis of revascularization of reimplanted immature dog teeth. Dent Traum 17:63. 2001. Bahcall J and Barss J. Fiberoptic endoscope usage for intracanal visualization. J Endodon 27:128. February, 2001. Liewehr F. An inexpensive device for transillumination. J Endodon 27:130. February, 2001. Amir F, Guttman J, Witherspoon D. Calcific metamorphosis: A challenge in endodontic diagnosis and treatment. Quint Int 32:447. June, 2001. Petka K. The 14 warning signs. Endo Prac 4:18. October, 2001. Aesaert G. Management of vertical root fractures. Endo Prac 4:32. October, 2001. Optional Articles Reiss HL, Furedi A. Significance of the pulp test as revealed in a microscopic study of the pulps of 130 teeth. Dental Cosmos 1933;75:272-281. Stephan RM. Correlation of clinical tests with microscopic pathology of the dental pulp. J Dent Res 11937;6;267-278. Herbert WE. A correlation between nervous accommodation, symptomatology and histological condition of the pulps of 52 teeth. Brit Dent J 1945;78:161-173. Vargas F, Vivaldi L. Correlation between nervous accommodaation, symptomatology and histology of normal and pathologic tooth pulp: Its application to electrodiagnosis. J Dent Res 1959;38:866-880. Mitchell DF, Tarplee RE. Painful pulpitis - a clinical and microscopic study. Oral Surg 1960;13:1360-1370. Degering CI. Physiologic evaluation of dental-pulp testing methods. J Dent Res 1962;41:695. Seltzer S, Bender IB, Zionitz M. The dynamics of pulp inflammation: correlations between diagnostic data and actual histologic findings in the pulp. Oral Surg 1963;16:846-977. Dachi SF. The relationship of pulpitis and hyperemia to thermal sensitivity. Oral Surg 1965;19:776-785. Reynolds RL. The determination of pulp vitality by means of thermal and electrical stimuli. Oral Surg 1966;22:231. Dachi SF et al. Standardization of a test for dental sensitivity to cold. Oral Surg 1967;24:687. Mumford JM. Pain perception thrshold on stimulating human teeth and the histological condition of the pulp. Brit Dent J 1967;123:427. Lundy T, Stanley HR. Correlation of pulpal histopathology amd clinical symtoms in human teeth subjected to experimental irritation. Oral Surg 1969;27:187. *Mumford JM, Newton AV. Zone of excitation when electrically stimulated human teeth. Arch Oral Biol 1969;14:1383-1388. Johnson RH, Dachi SF, Haley JV. Pulpal hyperemia - a correlation of clinical and histologic data from 706 teeth. J Am Dent a.s 1970;81:108. Mullaney TP, Howell RM, Petrich JD. Resistance of nerve fibers to pulpal necrosis. Oral Surg 1970;30:690. Baume LJ. Diagnosis of diseases of the pulp. Oral Surg 1970;29:102-116. Hasler JF, Mitchell DF. Painless pulpitis. J Am Dent a.s 1970;81:671. Chilton NW et al. Pulpal response iof bilateral intact teeth. Oral Surg 1972;33:797. Garfunkel A, Ulmansky M. Dental pulp pathosis: Clinicopathologic correlations based on 109 cases. Oral Surg 1973;35:110-117. *Bhaskar SN, Rappaport HM. Dental vitality tests and pulp status. J Am Dent a.s 1973;86:409. England MC, Pellis EG, Michanowicz AE. Histopathologic study of the effect of pulpal disease upon nerve fibers of the human dental pulp. Oral Surg 1974;38:783. Matthews B, Searle BN, Adams D, Linden R. Thresholds of vital and non-vital teeth to stimulation with electric pulp tester. Brit Dent J 1974;137:352-355. *Wooley LH, Woodworth J, Dobbs JL. A preliminary evaluation of the effects of electrical pulp testers on dogs with artificial pacemakers. J Am Dent a.s 89:1099-1101. 1974. *Michaelson RE, Seidberg BH, Guttuso J. An in vivo evaluation of interface media used with the electric pulp tester. J Amer Dent a.s 91:118-121. 1975. Cunningham J et al. Pain perception to electrical stimulation of the periapical tissues in human subjects and the possible influence of disease. Arch Oral Biol 1976;21:95. Cooley RL. An alternative to electric pulptesting. Quint Int 1977;12:1573. *Ehrmann EH. Pulp testers and pulp testing with particular reference to the use of dry ice. Austral Dent J 22:272-279. 1977. Cooley RL et al. Thermal pulp testing Gen Dent 1978;58:??. *Klein HJ. Pulp responses to an electric pulp stimulator in the developing permanent anterior dentition. J Dent Child 1978:23-26. Marshall FJ. Planning endodontic treatment. Dent Clin No Amer 23:495-518. 1979. Read p. 495-510 only! Dummer PMH, Hicks R, Huws D. Clinical signs and symptoms in pulpdisease. Int Endo J 1980;1:27-36. *Peters DD, Augsburger RA. In vitro cold transference of bases and restorations. J Amer Dent Assoc 102:642-646. 1981. Abou-Rass M. The diagnostic problem. Alpha Omegan 1982;75:35-56. *Cecic PA, Hartwell GR, Bellizzi R. Cold as a diagnostic aid in cases of irreversible pulpitis. Oral Surg 56:647-650. 1983. Kitamura T, Takahashi T, Horiuchi H. Electrical characteristics and clinical application of a new automatic pulp tester. Quint Int 1:45-53. 1983. Plasschaert AJM. The treatment of vital pulps I. Diagnosis and etiology. Int Endo J 1983;16:108. Forman PC. Ultraviolet light as an aid to endodontic diagnosis. Int Endo J 1983;16:121. Hyman JJ, Doblecki W. Computerized endodontic diagnosis. J Am Dent a.s 107:755-758. 1983. Ingram TA et al. Evaluation of the effects of carbon dioxide used with a pulpal test. I: In vivo effect on human enamel and pulpal tissues. J Endodon 1983;9:296. Cooley RL et al. Evaluation of a digital pulp tester. Oral Surg 1984;58:437. Mendoza MM, Reader A, Meyers WJ, Forman DW. An ultrastructural investigation of the human apical pulp in irreversible pulpitis I. Nerves. J Endodon 1987;13:267-276. Mendoza MM, Reader A, Meyers WJ, Marquard JV. An ultrastructural investigation of the human apical pulp in irreversible pulpitis II. Vaculature and connective tissue. J Endodon 1987;13:318-327. *Lado EA, Richmond AF, Marks RG. Reliability and validity of a digital pulp tester as a test standard for measuring sensory perception. J Endodon 14:352-356. 1988. Anderson RW, Pantera EA. Influence of a barrier technique on electric pulp testing. J Endodon 14:179-180. 1988. Wilder-Smith PEEB. A new method for the non-invasive measurement of pulpal blood flow. Int Endo J 21:307-312. 1988. *Olgart L, Gazelius B, Lindh-Stromberg U. Laser Doppler flowometry in assessing vitality in luxated permanent teeth. Int Endo J 21:300-306. 1988. Pogrel MA, Yen CK, Taylor RC. Studies in tooth crown temperature gradients with the use of infrared thermography. Oral Surg 67:583-587. 1989. Moody AB, Browne RM, Robinson PP. A comparison of monopolar and bipolar electrical stimuli and thermal stimuli in determining the vitality of human teeth. Arch Oral Biol 1989;34:701-705. *ABE Review Articles >> Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out >> in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >tooth and 0.6V for another. If thats correct and fillings produce 300mV we >would be in agony all the time. The rough Idea ..... Oral Surg Oral Med Oral Pathol. 1977 Apr;43(4):598-606. Related Articles, Links Rationalization of electric pulp-testing methods. Stark MM, Kempler D, Pelzner RB, Rosenfeld J, Leung RL, Mintatos S. A new electric pulp-testing system, the Testark, was developed in order to assess the potential of a different way of testing pulp sensitivity, thus making this electric pulp test more dependable than the conventional electric pulp-testing method. A study was conducted to evaluate the potential of the Testark system in comparison with a commercially available pulp tester. This pilot study consisted of application of three different desensitizing agents (sodium fluoride, test product. 'A', and test product 'B') to the cervical areas of hypersensitive teeth. The results were recorded with both the Testark and the conventional pulp tester simultaneously, and the sodium fluoride and test product 'B' proved to yield a beneficial effect by desensitizing the teeth after a single application. The level of desensitization with these agents was higher than the level obtained with the test product 'A' paste, which was utilized daily for 14 days. The results obtained with the conventional pulp tester differed by way of interpretation from those obtained with the Testark system. The Testark system proved to be easy to use and highly accurate in the data readings because of its high resolution. The Testark systemwas found to be more dependable than the commerical pulp tester, since it reduced the subjective errors which are inevitable when a commerical pulp tester is used. The Testark system is being developed further, and more studies are being conducted at the present time, in order to assess the full potential of the instrument. PMID: 265489 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE >> Do you know if experimental investigations have ever been carried out >> in order to determine the degree to which the electrical potentials [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >tooth and 0.6V for another. If thats correct and fillings produce 300mV we >would be in agony all the time. Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. You can read all about it at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm Do you think that it should be possible to determine experimentally whether or not these potentials are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads? Remember that "very sensitive measuring devices which can pick up tiny magnetic fields can detect neural activity without needing to poke electrodes directly into neurons," (*). Keith P Walsh (*) http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm >Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 >millivolts. This must be the right voltage. It DOES sound extremely familiar .... Joel >>Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >>generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Joel I though it was 349mV -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>>Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >>>generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >I though it was 349mV You forgot inflation ..... >>>>Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >>>>generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You forgot inflation ..... nope USD and Euros carabelli >>>>Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >>>>generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >You forgot inflation ..... Inflation is minimal at this time 351mV -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings > generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 mv Why do you keep quoting this junk research, and their very UNCONVINCING claims about measuring potentials in amalgams? There are too many sources for error such as poor technique, misuse of instruments, a noisy EM environment, and bad quantitative analysis to make any valid conclusions. Also, I believe you are confusing conductivity with the ability of a material to generate a potential. Furthermore, so what if there is a potential between two points on or in the human body? That doesn't mean that there is an electric current flowing or what we engineers call a "completed circuit." Many, many more conditions need to be satisfied before embarking on these crazy suggestions of electrical damage due to amalgams. Even after one year you are still quoting the same old, refuted study and not providing any new supporting evidence. > Even after one year you are still quoting the same old, > refuted study and not providing any new supporting evidence. You're still making the same old excuses for failing to acknowledge your own ignorance. I think that it should be possible to detect neurological activity in the vicinity of the teeth of individuals both with and without metal amalgam dental fillings and compare the results. Do you not agree? Keith P Walsh > I think that it should be possible to detect neurological activity in > the vicinity of the teeth of individuals both with and without metal > amalgam dental fillings and compare the results. or even between adjacent teeth. That might eliminate problems associated with moving the sensors. I think the article you referenced is talking about this technology.... http://www.cnn.com/TECH/9511/brain_net/ I've no idea if it's been (or could be) used on teeth. > Do you not agree? Personally I'm not an expert on this topic but a quick prod around my own mouth with a high impedence multimeter was inconclusive. As expected with such a crude experiment I saw a wildly fluctuating signal even between non-filled teeth. That's probably because I'm doing the experiment sitting in front of a computer monitor and indoors where electric field strengths average say 5-10V/m (or 1000's V/m if you live near a power line). >> Do you not agree? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >in front of a computer monitor and indoors where electric field strengths >average say 5-10V/m (or 1000's V/m if you live near a power line). YUP, Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ > Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change > the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ Very careful grinding to get your tooth to resonate at the proper frequency. http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/oscillators/crystal-grinding.htm If you do it wrong, you will zip right past the easy listening station and end up on the (24/7 fund raising) religous station. Vaughn > "Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change > the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ Jest ye not...... just as two disimilar metals can make a battery.... so they can also make a Diode.....and a diode is a useful device to have if you want to make a radio... http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/xtlradio.gif All you need is sufficiently high signal strength and you will have Terry Wogan inside your head. A fate almost worse than discovering Jan's right after all. >> "Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >they can also make a Diode.....and a diode is a useful device to have if you >want to make a radio... If it can be a TV, I want cable in there too ..... Joel >http://www.tricountyi.net/~randerse/xtlradio.gif > >All you need is sufficiently high signal strength and you will have Terry >Wogan inside your head. A fate almost worse than discovering Jan's right >after all. >>> "Joel M. Eichen" <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote in message >>> Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Joel Nah, it's really hard to reset the MTU on amalgams and get the right bandwidth. carabelli >>Personally I'm not an expert on this topic but a quick prod around my own >>mouth with a high impedence multimeter was inconclusive. As expected with [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change >the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ Dr. SM is your man. He has experience with these types of molar radios. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >YUP, > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > W_B Are you serious? Have you actually seen the legendary Xtal effect between two teeth touching just so and receiving radio signals? Amazing SP  SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> >YUP, >> > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Amazing >SP You should ask SM. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:40:08 -0500, StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet > >W_B <no_one@nowhere.net> wrote: > >Are you serious? Have you actually seen the legendary Xtal effect > >between two teeth touching just so and receiving radio signals? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > W_B OH! Nooo...! Bother the great DrSteve???? He must be booked WEEKS in advance to council the lessers like myself... Why he must be busy even at this moment negotiating the settlement with the Red Wings and their owner, and importing Olive Oil, and..... Oh, Well, OK, if you think so..... HEEEEEEYYYYY DR STEEEEEVE!!!!!!!!!! <slap upside the head> Sorry to bother y'all but how does this here whatddayacall Xtal radio effect manifest itself for real? Is it like a vibration they feel or what? Thanks, heh, heh, heh... <obnoxious punch on the arm> SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> >On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:40:08 -0500, StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Thanks, heh, heh, heh... <obnoxious punch on the arm> >SP H: Stove, During my mini-residency at Detroit Receiving Hospital, I had a patient who was convinced the previous dentist placed a radio in his filling, as he kept hearing voices in his head. Somehow, the group felt I should treat this guy. Perhaps, George is refering to my own upper right second molar. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. > H: Stove, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. > Troy, Michigan, USA Thanks for the background.... I'd say the next time your URMolar gives you problems, install an iPod in it.... ;-) SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> H: Stove, >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >you problems, install an iPod in it.... ;-) >SP Tell George. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. > >> H: Stove, > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. Done SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> Perhaps, George is refering to my own upper right second molar. >> .. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you problems, install an iPod in it.... ;-) >SP SM doesn't do Crapintosh -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>> >On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:40:08 -0500, StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet >>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >.. >Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. I did set it on the 'opera' channel right ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>>> >On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:40:08 -0500, StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet >>>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > >I did set it on the 'opera' channel right ? Perfect tune, too. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. > Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change > the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ There are two ways to change the station: rub a balloon on your head and accumulate more static potential, or touch a 9-volt battery to the tip of your tongue. But be careful; the moment you grab a metal doorknob, a ***POTENTIALLY NEUROPATHIC*** discharge will occur, and your station will be lost! So remember to wear lots of wool, eat only using plastic utensils, and eschew bodily contact with all other living organisms. And to the other dentist discussing dissimilar metals in the mouth: it takes a lot more than the mere presence of dissimilar metals to achieve conditions for rectification or biased charge storage. In fact, the presence of saliva and its component electrolytes will guarantee that charges never accumulate. There are many posts refuting the Dutch study from earlier this year. Not only is the Dutch study fundamentally wrong and poorly executed and based on terrible lab technique, but there is no way to link its results to any ill health effects. Otherwise, we might as well be looking for far greater health effects due to the scenarios described in the 1st paragraph of my message. Maybe the anti-amalgam crusaders should also work to save us from balloons... > And to the other dentist discussing dissimilar metals in the mouth: > it takes a lot more than the mere presence of dissimilar metals > to achieve conditions for rectification or biased charge storage. > In fact, the presence of saliva and its component electrolytes > will guarantee that charges never accumulate. Good, thanks for nailing that to the wall for me. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> And to the other dentist discussing dissimilar metals in the mouth: >> it takes a lot more than the mere presence of dissimilar metals [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Cheers >SP You see, this is how dental materials "science" works. What we have here are a couple of complicit dentists making up whatever they want to believe and managing to convince themselves that it must be true simply because they are the ones who have made it up. That isn't science. It's just sheer blind arrogance. Where are your scientific references? It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. It has also been demonstrated experimentally that the electrical potentials generated by amalgam fillings are quickly regenerated after being discharged. HERE ARE MY SCIENTIFIC REFERENCES IN SUPPORT OF THESE ASSERTIONS: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=2 231160&dopt=Citation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2 103035&dopt=Abstract (Readers may notice that not many of the other correspondents in sci.med.dentistry bother to provide any such references in support of their "scientific" arguments regarding the electrical behavior of amalgam fillings). Now, according to the University of Illinois' "Physics Van" website: "Very sensitive measuring devices which can pick up tiny magnetic fields can detect neural activity without needing to poke electrodes directly into neurons, " See: http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/section/Everything_Else/Humans_and_Animals/200208 12111737.htm I believe that it should be possible to measure "neural activity" in the vicinity of the teeth of individuals both with and without metal amalgam dental fillings and compare the results. Does anyone have any SCIENTIFIC evidence for believing otherwise? Keith P Walsh >Subject: Re: Measuring Amalgam Potentials >From: Keith P Walsh keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >whatever they want to believe and managing to convince themselves that >it must be true simply because they are the ones who have made it up. B I N G O! >That isn't science. > >It's just sheer blind arrogance. You got that right! >It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental >fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > >Keith P Walsh Oh Dear, another pointed question. Time for insults and personal trashing. Jan > > Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change > > the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > the anti-amalgam crusaders should also work to save us from > balloons... I don't know how you confused anti-amalgamist with those who believe neural disruption occurs from amalgam. Let me guess your one of those that thinks amlagam and Hg is safe. <<<<Here is an interesting paragraph about galvanic action: Any metal when immersed in an electrically conductive fluid, has a specific electrical potential that is measurable as a voltage. As you can also see in the table below, it is true that each metal has a different electrical potential when immersed in the same electrolyte ( an electrically conductive fluid such as sea water). As a result, if two dissimilar metals are placed in the same electrolyte, their different electrical potentials will produce a voltage that can be measured on the two pieces of metal. According to the potential difference of these two metals, the current flows from higher voltage metal to the lower one. This action raises the voltage of the lower-voltage metal above its natural potential. To establish the equilibrium, the lower-voltage metal discharges a current in to the electrolyte. The current passes through the electrolyte back to the higher-voltage metal and completes the electrical circuit between the two pieces. The current flowing through the electrolyte is generated by an electrochemical reaction that steadily consumes the lower-voltage metal a process known as galvanic corrosion.>>>>> It would be interesting to discuss the difference between condtions for current movement between two metals and current in an external circuit connected to the two metals. If there is a voltage difference between the metals as described above are you saying that the surrounding electrolyte acts as a short circuit for any potential circuit that would be drawn through a path including tissue. I'll admit that I'm not up on electrochemistry but the situation should be pretty well defined if the the two dissimialr metals (say two different types of amalgam or amalgam and gold) are at separate potentials and the conductivity of all the possible surrounding paths is defined. Any validation to Jan's EAV Electroacupuncture According to Voll theory that all root canals are poisonous .......? Joel >> Good information ... I am simply trying to figure out how to change >> the station inside my molar fromAcid Rock to Easy Listening ........ [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >the anti-amalgam crusaders should also work to save us from >balloons... >> Do you not agree? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >in front of a computer monitor and indoors where electric field strengths >average say 5-10V/m (or 1000's V/m if you live near a power line). You guess that the fluctuations in your readings may have been due to the influence of local electromagnetic fields. Do you think that these electromagnetic fields would be more likely to induce electrical potentials in your measuring instrument than in the metal fillings, or would you expect the effect to be roughly similar in each? Do you think that it should be possible to measure the electromagnetic properties of metal dental fillings? Keith P Walsh > >> Do you not agree? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You guess that the fluctuations in your readings may have been due to > the influence of local electromagnetic fields. Cheap multimeter. carabelli > Cheap multimeter. Not that. It's the fact that the impedence of the source is quite high. > > You guess that the fluctuations in your readings may have been due to > > the influence of local electromagnetic fields. > > Cheap multimeter. > > carabelli I just stuck a Radio Shack analog multimeter in my mouth (black probe to LL1stMolar and the red probe to its right homologue. .... Know what? Nothing..... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> Well it certainly is correct that metal amalgam dental fillings >> generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 mv > >Why do you keep quoting this junk research, and their very >UNCONVINCING claims about measuring potentials in amalgams? He is worried about the price of crude oil topping $50. If amalgams could be hooked up in series, we could power entire cities ..... Joel >There are too many sources for error such as poor technique, >misuse of instruments, a noisy EM environment, and bad [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Even after one year you are still quoting the same old, >refuted study and not providing any new supporting evidence. >Even after one year you are still quoting the same old, >refuted study and not providing any new supporting evidence. That's nothing. We have a certain Jan Drew right here and her wording about being poisoned by mercury fillings has not changed in nine years! Joel The Dutch study (*) has not been "refuted". All that has happened is that yourself and others like you have made up excuses for ignoring the findings of this study because you don't like the sound of them. The study found that the electrical potentials generated by metal amalgam dental fillings measure up to 350 millivolts in magnitude. Do you have any valid scientific reasons for suggesting that this is not the case? Keith P Walsh (*) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm > Do you have any valid scientific reasons for suggesting that this is > not the case? > Keith P Walsh > > (*) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm I, for one, a mere dentist, have no dental pathological reason to urge valid scientific research (which costs money) to describe this insignificant effect any further. Nobody is going to fund such research, as there is no underlying pathology to attack. KPW, go get some $$$ and do it yourself. Now, I gotta go shovel snow and buy Xmas presents for the parents, who have decided to fly in from half-way across the world to see the grand children at Xmas. SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > Now, I gotta go shovel snow and buy Xmas presents for the parents, who > have decided to fly in from half-way across the world to see the grand > children at Xmas. That sounds like it was a *big* surprise! I hope it is a wonderful visit for everyone. TW > > Now, I gotta go shovel snow and buy Xmas presents for the parents, who > > have decided to fly in from half-way across the world to see the grand [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > TW Well,,,,, They are all super high acheivers in my family..... even the dog and the hamster.... all except fer me, the black sheep, who chose to do dentisterin' in what they consider to be the a.s end of the world (Quebec, Kaaannnaaddaaa)..... it SHOULD REALLY BE A GREEEEEAAAAAT TIME!!!!! 'Scuse me while I go take some home made tranquilizzzzzeers Funny though.... D'y'all believe it that I'm the only one o' the three of us whut has CHILDREN!?!?!?!?!? 'Guess runnin' the world has its downsides... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > > > Now, I gotta go shovel snow and buy Xmas presents for the parents, who > > > have decided to fly in from half-way across the world to see the grand [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > downsides... > SP Ohhhhhhhh. You said all you need say... you will survive!! TW ;-) >Now, I gotta go shovel snow and buy Xmas presents for the parents, who >have decided to fly in from half-way across the world to see the grand >children at Xmas. It has been noted that children often have better relationships with their grandparents than with their parents, especially during the years before they have acquired their adult teeth and "teenage angst", and perhaps after the grandparents have had all of their teeth out (full sets of false teeth are still very common in the UK where I live). It's the parents in the middle who do all the "stressing out". Would you ever stand back and allow an ignorant dentist to put electric batteries (amalgam fillings) in your children's teeth? Or woould you be ignorant enough to do it yourself? I rather suspect that you would prefer to do better by them. Wishing you a happy Christmas and a peaceful New Year, Keith P Walsh PS remember that it has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. You can read all about it at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm > Why do you keep quoting this junk research, and their very > UNCONVINCING claims about measuring potentials in amalgams? Easy! You are attempting to communicate with a dedicated, cross-posting troll, who is best ignored. Vaughn . >Subject: Re: Measuring Amalgam Potentials >From: "Vaughn Simon" vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Vaughn http://home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/galv.html http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html http://z1.adserver.com/w/cp.x;rid=402;tid=5;ev=1;dt=3;ac=60;c=986;;nc=1 http://web.cvut.cz/ctu/research/workshop/prispevky02/BIO001.pdf http://z1.adserve There was a URL (starting with the above link) posted in this thread, twice, that will place spyware (not a virus) on a PC that does not have the proper safeguards in place. carabelli > http://z1.adserve > > There was a URL (starting with the above link) posted in this thread, twice, > that will place spyware (not a virus) on a PC that does not have the proper > safeguards in place. Strange! I looked at every post and saw nothing like that. Vaughn > carabelli >> http://z1.adserve >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Vaughn Well, I inadvertantly e-mailed this to the person that posted rather than SMD. Possibly that person nuked it before your server picked it up. It's there though. I've got adaware and spybot search and destroy on all my PCs. If something makes it past them it's relatively simple to get rid of it. Dan >Subject: Re: Measuring Amalgam Potentials >From: Ar Fai Ve 80211b@80211b.wifi.net [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Why do you keep quoting this junk research http://home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/galv.html http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/00n_1665/00N-1665-EC-07.html http://z1.adserver.com/w/cp.x;rid=402;tid=5;ev=1;dt=3;ac=60;c=986;;nc=1 http://web.cvut.cz/ctu/research/workshop/prispevky02/BIO001.pdf >Even after one year you are still quoting the same old, >refuted study and not providing any new supporting evidence. The Dutch study has not been refuted. Yourself and others like you have simply made up excuses for ignoring its findings because you don't like the sound of them. This study has determined experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts.(*) Do you have any valid scientific evidence which contradicts this result? Keith P Walsh (*) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm > Also, I believe you are confusing conductivity with the > ability of a material to generate a potential. Furthermore, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be satisfied before embarking on these crazy suggestions > of electrical damage due to amalgams. Howdy! I'm a Dentist and not a Physicist (although I did a Masters' in a field of BioMedEng) and I think that all this would be is a natural electrolytic battery effect between dissimilar metals in the mouth and the natural ionic composition of saliva. There is one situation in which these currents become more or less chronic, and that is when there is a gold crown in physical contact with a metal filling; be it a stainless steel crown or an Amalgam. In this situation, you get a natural galvanic effect and the non-prescious metal gets corroded. Naturally, the nature of Amalgam fillings (lots of Ag) make them very prone to corrosion this way. So, what do we do? We change the filling for a composite or put in another crown, where the Physical contact is in Porcelain if possible (as you will never get two crowns to have exactly the same composition; there are impurities introduced to influence physical properties). These metals are made in small batches. The comparatively few times I've seen this problem (it doesn't always happen, even with large contacts between different metals) I've not seen any visible damage to the tooth under the corroding filling. I guess you need a very ionic saliva to see it. Now if we could only run our iPods and Walkmans on those potentials.... ;-) Cheers, hope this helps a bit... PS: that's a cool group you have over there... wish I had time! SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> Also, I believe you are confusing conductivity with the >> ability of a material to generate a potential. Furthermore, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >electrolytic battery effect between dissimilar metals in the mouth and >the natural ionic composition of saliva. Exactly! What with all the fluoride talk lately, I went out and bought grapes, ate 25 per day, and I am checking to see how I feel. so far, okay. Joel >There is one situation in which these currents become more or less >chronic, and that is when there is a gold crown in physical contact with [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >PS: that's a cool group you have over there... wish I had time! >SP > Exactly! > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Joel Easy.... Easy boy.... whut if yer ears implode? Then it'll be too late... SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed galvanic amalgams electrical current amalgams >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed > > galvanic amalgams I see your galvanic amalgam and I raise you two composite compatibility testings. >electrical current amalgams >I'm a Dentist and not a Physicist (although I did a Masters' in a field >of BioMedEng) and I think that all this would be is a natural >electrolytic battery effect between dissimilar metals in the mouth and >the natural ionic composition of saliva. It has been known for more than 160 years that metals, mixtures of metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to generate electrical potentials as a result of their thermoelectric properties (1). It is not necessary for there to be any electrolyte present in order for this to happen, and no electrolysis takes place. The latest thermoelectric wristwatch batteries are about the same size as a large metal amalgam dental filling and are able to generate an electrical potential of about 1 volt from a temperature difference of only 1 kelvin (2). Of course, you would't necessarily expect an accidentally constructed thermoelectric battery to generate electrical potentials as efficiently as a purpose-designed one. Nevertheless, when considering the difference between the temperature of ice-cream and human body temperature, the temperature differences experienced by metal fillings in the mouth may measure in excess of 35 kelvin. (Have you ever heard of an "ice-cream headache"?). The type of metal amalgam commonly used in restorative dentistry is an inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar metals in its own right. The interesting thing is, in spite of the fact that amalagam fillings are placed in children's teeth, it appears that there isn't anyone anywhere in the world who has ever attempted to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam. This means that any assertion to the effect that the thermoelectric potentials generated by amalgam fillings are not large enough to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads is based only on guesswork and not on any applicable scientific evidence. The thermoelectric performance of a material is determined by the value of its Seebeck coefficient, or "thermoelectric power"; and this is measured in volts per kelvin. Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to measure the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam? (Remember there is no electrolysis involved.) Keith P Walsh (1) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/thermo2.htm (2) http://www.natureinterface.com/e/ni03/P045-049/ In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > >I'm a Dentist and not a Physicist (although I did a Masters' in a field > >of BioMedEng) and I think that all this would be is a natural > >electrolytic battery effect between dissimilar metals in the mouth and > >the natural ionic composition of saliva. > It has been known for more than 160 years that metals, mixtures of > metals and dissimilar metals in contact with each other are able to > generate electrical potentials as a result of their thermoelectric > properties (1). > It is not necessary for there to be any electrolyte present in order > for this to happen, and no electrolysis takes place. > The latest thermoelectric wristwatch batteries are about the same size > as a large metal amalgam dental filling and are able to generate an > electrical potential of about 1 volt from a temperature difference of > only 1 kelvin (2). > Of course, you would't necessarily expect an accidentally constructed > thermoelectric battery to generate electrical potentials as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the mouth may measure in excess of 35 kelvin. (Have you ever heard > of an "ice-cream headache"?). > The type of metal amalgam commonly used in restorative dentistry is an > inhomogeneous mixture of dissimilar metals in its own right. > The interesting thing is, in spite of the fact that amalagam fillings > are placed in children's teeth, it appears that there isn't anyone > anywhere in the world who has ever attempted to measure the > thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam. > This means that any assertion to the effect that the thermoelectric > potentials generated by amalgam fillings are not large enough to > dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads is > based only on guesswork and not on any applicable scientific evidence. > The thermoelectric performance of a material is determined by the > value of its Seebeck coefficient, or "thermoelectric power"; and this > is measured in volts per kelvin. > Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to measure the > thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam? > (Remember there is no electrolysis involved.) > Keith P Walsh > (1) http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/thermo2.htm > (2) http://www.natureinterface.com/e/ni03/P045-049/ The amalgam is a low resistance lump. Any "battery" of any kind that might form inside the lump is shorted out by the lump. No significant current would flow outside the lump unless the outside path had a resistance in the same ballpark as the amalgam lump, which the mouth does not. As for measuring the thermoelectric properties of a typical dental amalgam, if there are any, all you would need to do this measurement is a multimeter and a thermometer. Radio Shack catalog number 22-810 multimeter costs $19.99, and catalog number 22-325 non-contact ifrared thermometer costs $29.99. So, if you care so much about the children and feel these measurements must be made, send $50 to Radio Shack, buy the equiment, and make the measurements. If you can't spend $50 to save the children from this horror, you are obviously a heartless, uncaring wretch. SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. Now wait a minute, I'll admit I'm not up on my solid state and electrochemistry but.. if the composition of the metal changed abruptly within the amalgam, i.e. two halves of different composition or it was placed in the vicinity of another material such as gold, you would have to two regions or lumps at a different potential. Therefore there would be a voltage across the external path wouldn't there. I'm not saying whose right or whose wrong, but it seems like you can't assume a battery embedded inside a conductor (the amlagam) to cover all cases. Also research shows that the phases of the amalgam change internally with time, liberating mercury. There is some energy transfer there. Can you put that in context? > Therefore > there would be a voltage across the external path wouldn't there. I'm > not saying > whose right or whose wrong, but it seems like you can't assume a > battery > embedded inside a conductor (the amlagam) to cover all cases. .... so what I'm gonna do: the next M-O-D-L in amalgam that I face, I'd do the M-O in Tytin and the D-L is Dispersalloy. Two Ams, one interface, and we'll let that go 'till it corrodes.... I'd still bet it would hold up well over a reasonable lifetime. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > > Therefore > > there would be a voltage across the external path wouldn't there. I'm [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Not a real Addy, yet I'm not familiar with M-O-D-L but please don't use your patient as a guinea big. Believe me my amalgam looked fine from the bottom in terms of corrosion (the top surface was a different story) and as far as I know that was one type. Id suggested setting it in tray or bucket filled with water or a solution mimiciking an electrolyte, Even though that won't mimic the conditions of the human mouth. > I'm not familiar with M-O-D-L but please don't use your patient > as a guinea big. Believe me my amalgam looked fine from the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > electrolyte, Even though that won't mimic the conditions of the human > mouth. It was a joke... There is one patient who DESERVES to be a guinea pig though.... Mindy/Keri/whomever... Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >It was a joke... There is one patient who DESERVES to be a guinea pig >though.... Mindy/Keri/whomever... >Cheers >SP Vivisection ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >please don't use your patient >as a guinea big. Good idea. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >> Therefore >> there would be a voltage across the external path wouldn't there. I'm [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >up well over a reasonable lifetime. >SP The next time you see a MODL that needs replacing, do not operate on that tooth without considering the pulpal heath first. constricted chamber pulp stones constricted canals Operating a tooth with such a massive restoration is just asking for trouble. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >The amalgam is a low resistance lump. Any "battery" of any kind that >might form inside the lump is shorted out by the lump. No significant [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >If you can't spend $50 to save the children from this horror, you are >obviously a heartless, uncaring wretch. I think you're forgetting something. It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm Other studies have shown that these potentials are quickly regenerated whenever they are discharged in the mouth. See: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2 103035&dopt=Abstract The fact that you can't explain how these electrical potentials arise doesn't mean that they don't exist. If you go to: http://www.finoag.com/fitm/n6.html - you will see a graphical representation of the electromagnetic field which is produced whenever a thermoelectric potential "shorts out" around an inclusion of one electrically conductive material which is surrounded by a matrix of a dissimilar electrically conductive material. (Figure d is particularly instructive.) Then if you go to: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/setting.htm - you will see that a "lump" of dental amalgam is composed of a great many such inclusions, all surrounded by a matrix of a dissimilar electrically conductive material. I would suggest that the only way to determine the degree to which the electromagnetic field generated by "shorting out" thermoelectric potentials accumulates in such a material is to measure it. Any assertion that the thermoelectric potentials generated by amalgam fillings are not large enough to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads might then be based on scientific evidence rather than simple guesswork. I also believe that the responsibility for demonstrating this scientific evidence lies with those who advocate the use of metal amalgams for filling cavities in teeth. And I am confident that I am right. Keith P Walsh PS, Remember that the latest purpose-built thermoelectric batteries are about the size of a large amalgam dental filling and are able to generate a thermoelectric potential of around 1 volt from a temperate difference of only 1 kelvin. And there is no electrolysis involved. In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > >The amalgam is a low resistance lump. Any "battery" of any kind that > >might form inside the lump is shorted out by the lump. No significant [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >If you can't spend $50 to save the children from this horror, you are > >obviously a heartless, uncaring wretch. > I think you're forgetting something. Only that you are an idiot. > It has been demonstrated experimentally that metal amalgam dental > fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 > millivolts. > See: > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm > Other studies have shown that these potentials are quickly regenerated > whenever they are discharged in the mouth. > See: > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2 103035&dopt=Abstract > The fact that you can't explain how these electrical potentials arise > doesn't mean that they don't exist. > If you go to: > http://www.finoag.com/fitm/n6.html > - you will see a graphical representation of the electromagnetic field > which is produced whenever a thermoelectric potential "shorts out" > around an inclusion of one electrically conductive material which is > surrounded by a matrix of a dissimilar electrically conductive > material. (Figure d is particularly instructive.) > Then if you go to: > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/setting.htm > - you will see that a "lump" of dental amalgam is composed of a great > many such inclusions, all surrounded by a matrix of a dissimilar > electrically conductive material. > I would suggest that the only way to determine the degree to which the > electromagnetic field generated by "shorting out" thermoelectric > potentials accumulates in such a material is to measure it. > Any assertion that the thermoelectric potentials generated by amalgam > fillings are not large enough to dissipate electrical energy through > the nerves in people's heads might then be based on scientific > evidence rather than simple guesswork. > I also believe that the responsibility for demonstrating this > scientific evidence lies with those who advocate the use of metal > amalgams for filling cavities in teeth. > And I am confident that I am right. > Keith P Walsh > PS, Remember that the latest purpose-built thermoelectric batteries > are about the size of a large amalgam dental filling and are able to > generate a thermoelectric potential of around 1 volt from a temperate > difference of only 1 kelvin. > And there is no electrolysis involved. You have been told how to measure the potential if they exist. If you think they exist, measure them, otherwise shut up. SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. >> >So, if you care so much about the children and feel these measurements >> >must be made, send $50 to Radio Shack, buy the equiment, and make the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Only that you are an idiot. I have no idea what is being said here ......... MEASURE WHAT??? Joel In sci.physics.electromag Joel M. Eichen <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> >So, if you care so much about the children and feel these measurements > >> >must be made, send $50 to Radio Shack, buy the equiment, and make the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > >Only that you are an idiot. > I have no idea what is being said here ......... > MEASURE WHAT??? > Joel Possible thermoelectric properties. He blathers on and on about such possibilities; it is trivial to make a few measurements to see if they actually exist. But he would never make a measurement no matter how simple. SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. |
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