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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004A new, CORRECT evolutionary theory
The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. Let me put it this way. If you want to know how to repair a car, it helps to know how it the car is put together. Likewise, if you want to help people to get well, it is extremely important to know HOW human beings and all of life evolved. It is essential to have a proper understanding of the correct evolutionary process to know how stop the noxious activities of viruses and bacteria. If you grasp this, you will forever be far ahead of any and all funded scientists in the US and most of Europe today. To explain how evolution actually works it would be best to look at the evolutionary progression of viruses, bacteria, and fungi. Every bacteria is comprised of a virus as its primary part, and the secondary parts of fatty acids and nucleo-proteins. The fatty acids neutralize the noxious powers of the virus which enables the bacteria to survive as a life form. Every fungus, yeast, mold is comprised of a bacteria as its primary part, and the secondary parts of phospholipids and other constituents. The phospholipids neutralize the noxious effects of the bacteria which allows the fungi etc, to survive as a life form. A virus never, and I mean NEVER, mutates to become anything other than a new virus. A bacteria never, and I mean NEVER, mutates to become anything other than a new bacteria. As a corallary, certain fatty acids always, and I mean ALWAYS, act as neutralizers of viruses. And certain phospholipids always, and I mean ALWAYS, act as neutralizers of bacteria. This has been true since the existence of viruses and bacteria and molds, which would be billions of years. Biological life evolved from viruses to bacteria to molds, fungi, and yeasts and beyond to more complex life forms through this method. Genetic mutation did not cause the leap from viruses to bacteria to fungi, etc. There are untold varieties of viruses, bacteria, and fungi because they do mutate while remaining as viruses or bacteria or fungi. Some viruses, bacteria and fungi are their own endpoints because the particular mutation they have achieved are not compatible with becoming a higher life form. This helps to explain why there are so many holes in the trail of evolutionary progression. We are constantly at a loss to find the 'ancestors' of various life forms. That's because we are searching for gradual changes, say for instance from dinosaurs to birds. But evolution didn't happen that way. For instance, when a virus becomes a bacteria there is no gradual trail to observe. In a way, the difference would be sort of like the difference between a sperm and a fertilized egg -- a big difference! Similarly, when a bacteria took on the secondary parts of phospholipids to become a fungi or a mold or a yeast, it was a huge change. As a result, there was no evolutionary trail to follow. A critical -- essential -- criteria for a jump to a higher life form is that the higher life form MUST have a natural defense against the noxious aspect of the lower life form. All life forms must eat, so the higher life form must be able to shut off that aspect in the lower life form but provide a new way of sustaining life. As an addendum to this, the nucleus of human cells appear to correspond to the bacterial level. Cells appear to correspond to the fungal level, which is interesting because fungi, yeast, and molds are single cell life forms. Mitochondria are also interesting to look at from this evolutionary approach, since they appear to be interlopers of a sort. How they might fit in, I don't know. So here's what it means to you. Fatty acids shut off viral noxiousness. Phospholipids shut of bacterial noxiousness. This means if you come down with a viral infection, or you want to prevent one -- be sure to have an adequate intake of fatty acids in your diet. To neutralize bacterial infections, use phospholipids. I don't know which lipids shut off fungi, yeasts and molds. Fortunately I've found various herbs that do it, such as Pau D'Arco, although I don't know what the neutralizing component is. >So here's what it means to you. Fatty acids shut off viral noxiousness. >Phospholipids shut of bacterial noxiousness. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I've found various herbs that do it, such as Pau D'Arco, although I >don't know what the neutralizing component is. What proof do you have of this treatments effectiveness against viri and bacteria? Not to mention it's horribly off-topic. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? I don't have 'proof'. Just my experience and the experiences of others. If you don't wish to believe it, that's okay. All I was trying to say, even if I said it poorly, is that I don't know how the evolutionary process continues beyond the single cell stage. The last paragraph was quite tangential to the rest of my remarks. I hope you and others will focus on my main theme rather than on the last paragraph. The main thrust of my remarks are "on topic" because by understanding the correct evolution of life, it can help a person to deal with all manner of health issues including dental issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Visit http://www.itsnotjustforsex.com > I don't have 'proof'. Just my experience and the experiences of others. > If you don't wish to believe it, that's okay. He didn't say he didn't believe what you are saying (although I wouldn't blame him if he did). He asked what evidence you have that it works as described? If someone says they have a great money making scheme you don't rush out and invest all your savings in it do you? You want evidence it works first? That's science at work. > The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution > are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > help people to get well, it is extremely important to know HOW human > beings and all of life evolved. Bummer, I would have kept my old 6 cyl Mustang until it evolved into a Cobra. If only I had known to use essential oils instead of Quaker State. That's life. carabelli | > The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution | > are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | | carabelli I've got my 8 cyl. 68 Chevelle in a suspended state (automotive cryogenics). Glad to learn about these essential oils, gonna resurrect ol' Betsy one day. -- Roy > I've got my 8 cyl. 68 Chevelle in a suspended state (automotive cryogenics). > Glad to learn about these essential oils, gonna resurrect ol' Betsy one day. I also have a '65 BMW mororcycle that is hovering somewhere between suspended antimation and death. It and I have had many adventures covering many thousands of miles in past decades. (Yes Roy, we have even been to Canada) My fantasy is to have it restored to factory condition so it could be donated to a museum after my death...with my ashes sealed in the tank. Vaughn > -- > Roy Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? If not there are probably quite a few reality TV shows you could be watching. I was attempting to have some serious discussions about evolution as it pertains to health. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Visit http://www.itsnotjustforsex.com Sure. If you will note in my post, one could readily tell the difference between reality and fiction. If your writing style does not indicate which is which, the reader is led to believe it is all postulation. Would you like to repost your concepts telling us which points were evidence based and provide references please? And please extrapolate how your post relates to "DENTISTRY".  SignatureRoy rem NADA to reply | Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? If not | there are probably quite a few reality TV shows you could be watching. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Visit http://www.itsnotjustforsex.com >Sure. If you will note in my post, one could readily tell the difference between >reality and fiction. If your writing style does not indicate which is which, the >reader is led to believe it is all postulation. By the information I have put forward, it is a theory, not a postulate. Theories are not proven, but they do have evidence to support themselves. >Would you like to repost your concepts telling us which points were evidence >based and provide references please? Do you really need a reference that viruses are comprised of proteins and nucleic acids? Do you need a reference that bacteria contain those two constituents plus fatty acids and nucleo-proteins? Do you need a reference that fungi contain all the constituents of bacteria plus at least one phospholipid? Maybe the above isn't common knowledge amongst biological scientists. Maybe they haven't looked at viruses, bacteria and fungi in that way before. I will plead ignorance if that is the case. When they do start to look at them that way -- if they haven't done so already -- then the apparent mysteries will be solved for them. >And please extrapolate how your post relates to "DENTISTRY". Do bacteria have an effect on dental health? Yes. Would it be helpful then to know how evolution has been able to contain the harmful effects of bacteria? Maybe there is a practical application in understanding that all healthy fungi, molds and yeasts have a natural defense against bacteria, and that the active constituents for deactivating bacterial infections are phospholipids. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit http://www.itsnotjustforsex.com >Do you really need a reference that viruses are comprised of proteins >and nucleic acids? Do you need a reference that bacteria contain those [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >to look at them that way -- if they haven't done so already -- then the >apparent mysteries will be solved for them. Cool description ...... Joel > Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? If not > there are probably quite a few reality TV shows you could be watching. > > I was attempting to have some serious discussions about evolution as it > pertains to health. "attempting" is quite descriptive. Failing would be more accurate. carabelli > Do you have anything constructive to add to the conversation? If not > there are probably quite a few reality TV shows you could be watching. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Visit http://www.itsnotjustforsex.com Strange you are recommending something associated with "reality"...I'd suggest you look into it yourself! T > Bummer, I would have kept my old 6 cyl Mustang until it evolved into a > Cobra. If only I had known to use essential oils instead of Quaker State. > That's life. Actually, I believe that oil is essential to every internal combustion engine that I have ever seen. Vaughn > The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution > are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. There are no theories in the Kingdom of God. Only the Truth. Genesis 1 The Beginning 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. 3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day. 6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning-the second day. 9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning-the third day. 14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights-the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fourth day. 20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning-the fifth day. 24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground." 29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground-everything that has the breath of life in it-I give every green plant for food." And it was so. 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning-the sixth day. Genesis 2 1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. 2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. >> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution >> are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The Beginning > 1 In the beginning............ Creationsim and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive. carabelli >>> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution >>> are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > carabelli I think it depends on what one believes. I believe in the literal translation of the 66 Books of the Bible. There is no evolution as described by darwin, or neo-darwinists, anywhere in His-Story. TD > >>> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution > >>> are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > TD I stand by my first statement. Who is to say the first day was 24 hours? It's an old argument........ carabelli >> >>> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution >> >>> are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > carabelli Would it matter if it was 25 hours? > >> >>> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of evolution > >> >>> are inadequate to describe what really happens in evolution. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Would it matter if it was 25 hours? Of course, or 26, or a millennium.......... The hand of Divine Intervention can reconcile the two................... carabelli >> >> >>> The Darwinian theory of evolution and the genetic theory of > evolution [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > carabelli Of course He can, but He doesn't need to. Genesis 1 5God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day. > > I stand by my first statement. Who is to say the first day was 24 hours? > > It's an old argument........ > > > > carabelli > > Would it matter if it was 25 hours? Yes it WOULD... Now you are being selective in your acceptance of what you interpret as being the Scriptures. In other words, you are doing the same as what you are accusing the others of doing: interpreting. Either, as you say, you accept the Old and New Testaments as being the Christian Bible, or you accept that there are interpretations possible, as for example the 7 *day* time frame. If you don't accept other attacks to your belief system, at least be consistant with all the premises you have stated. Also, you choose the aspects of your arguments of which you are willing to discuss... This makes you on the same level as other radicals that haunt this castle, albiet you are not (YET) as much a zealot as they. FWIW, This being 2004 (almost 2005), I cannot believe that you are so tunnel visioned as to truly believe that the archeological records must be ignored and the words of those ancient sages must be taken literally. I for one think that the writers of the Old Testament and Matthiew Mark Luke and John would be turning over in their graves at such folly. They were writing for the masses of their era, with all the limitations inherant of those times. It's a pity that Jesus decided to materialize here in a time when there were no mass communication systems to announce and record His doings. Seems to me He would have done better today than then. This is the opinion of a once and probably not future Catholic dentist dude. JMO SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> > I stand by my first statement. Who is to say the first day was 24 >> > hours? [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > JMO > SP Maybe you should have read *All* replies before jumping to conclusions. >> > carabelli >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > carabelli Of course He can, but He doesn't need to. Genesis 1 5God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning-the first day. > > then. This is the opinion of a once and probably not future Catholic > > dentist dude. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >> > > Of course, or 26, or a millennium.......... sorry, Tim, I still feel you're skating and that is the problem with the Creationists. As you say: Either you accept it or you don't and you're making loopholes for yourself. That is illogical. Respectfully, SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> > then. This is the opinion of a once and probably not future Catholic >> > dentist dude. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Respectfully, > SP Hardly. I haven't budged one bit nor will I. I was being tongue-in-cheek with Dan and you see something else. Sorry. > > sorry, Tim, I still feel you're skating and that is the problem with the > > Creationists. As you say: Either you accept it or you don't and you're [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hardly. I haven't budged one bit nor will I. I was being tongue-in-cheek > with Dan and you see something else. Sorry. OK, point taken. Thanks for the clarification. Looks like *my* sense of humor needs fine tuning. Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> > sorry, Tim, I still feel you're skating and that is the problem with >> > the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Cheers > SP Glad we're past that..:-) Cheers, TD >They were writing for the masses of their era, with all the limitations > inherant of those times. More than that, they were not writing in 21st century English. A few moments spent with Babblefish should adequately convince you of the dangers inherent in translations. Add the vast cultural differences between then and now and our lack of access to the true source documents, and you can begin see the folly of insisting that our modern bibles must be literally accepted word-for-word. Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? Vaughn In article <_pZud.1080011$Gx4.201819@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > >They were writing for the masses of their era, with all the limitations > > inherant of those times. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Vaughn Here is a response in the form of a link: http://www.sheepgoatmarketing.org/sgm/education/kosher.htm Some rabbinical scholars have "concluded" that the laws of kashrut were given not as a means to prevent illness (as many people "believe"); but rather, as a means to teach people how to live within a society that has rules by which to live. Those rules came with consequences if broken. And so, if you don't want to risk the consequences, you better eat according to the Laws of Kashrut. Oh note: The rabbis in Los Angeles (the ones who make decisions for other rabbis) granted me an exclusion from the need to abide by the Laws of Kashrut because of my physical disability involving the jaw. They had never been asked to consider such a request before mine in 1996. Obviously there must be plenty of people who need to break those laws, but no one had yet asked for interpretation. Personally, I don't think this forum is a proper place to debate the correctness of any one person's religious beliefs. What the world's religions have to say about eating may actually have a place in smd discussions. Imagine if someone's god directed him to drink soda pop before and after each daily prayer as set forth by that particular religion. Then!, I think smd might have something to say about the effect of that religion's practice upon the dental health of its followers. Ugh. TW > In article > Personally, I don't think this forum is a proper place to debate the > correctness of any one person's religious beliefs. I don't see the problem with an occasional religious discussion as long as it remains *respectful* of everybody's beliefs; probably safer than discussing politics these days. That said, if your beliefs are so strongly held as to not be subject to discussion, then it is probably better for all that you don't try. > What the world's > religions have to say about eating may actually have a place in smd > discussions. That would certainly have a place. > Imagine if someone's god directed him to drink soda pop > before and after each daily prayer as set forth by that particular > religion. Then!, I think smd might have something to say about the > effect of that religion's practice upon the dental health of its > followers. I have seen (or at least heard of) stranger religious practices. Vaughn > Ugh. > > TW [clip] > That said, if your beliefs are so strongly held as to > not be subject to discussion, then it is probably better for all that you don't > try. [clip] If I can't question or have doubts about my religion, then it isn't the religion for me. Orthodox or fundamental religion would never suit my needs. I don't worry about what happens after this life ends. I figure that if I've lived my life honestly and sincerely, that should be good enough for whatever may be ahead. That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) TW > That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the > hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) > > TW How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. Cheers and happy Chanukah SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > > That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the > > hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Cheers and happy Chanukah > SP Eight candles plus the leader-candle that lights them all ... total 9. It is eight nights celebrated. This festival is historical and not religious. TW > > How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. > > Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > TW A-Ha... With all the time I spent with the Ethnics in Montreal, you'd think I'd-a known this already... thanks... don't answer.... I'm going to bed Happy Chanoukah again SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> > That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the >> > hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >TW Well,,,,, 9 plus 8 plus 7 plus six .......... etc. "How Many Candles ....." > >> > That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the > >> > hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > "How Many Candles ....." Yes, but don't forget you have to start on the right and work your way left!! Yes, it's 44 whether you do it in the "right" or "wrong" direction. This has to be confusing to poor SP... good thing he has a sense of humor. Should we explain all this stuff??? 9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2= TW ;-) >Yes, but don't forget you have to start on the right and work your way >left!! Yes, it's 44 whether you do it in the "right" or "wrong" [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >TW ;-) Nine factorial. Or ........ 9! ........ Joel >>That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the >>hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Cheers and happy Chanukah > SP Egads, are you saying I'm not through with my shopping yet? Steve >> That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the >> hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. >Cheers and happy Chanukah There are fifty or sixty now that some got control of the candle industry ....... You gots to burn a whole bunch or else you are in trouble ....... Its actually 44 I believe. >SP > >> That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the > >> hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > >SP Oh..... in the box!!! Is that what SP meant??? Yes, big candle industry ... the rebels amongst us use oil instead. ;-) >> >SP > >Oh..... in the box!!! Is that what SP meant??? Yes, big candle >industry ... the rebels amongst us use oil instead. ;-) YUP, we fry with the oil ..... >> >> That would be my position, and tonight it's one more light in the >> >> hanukiah (english for hanukiah hahaha) [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Oh..... in the box!!! Is that what SP meant??? Yes, big candle > industry ... the rebels amongst us use oil instead. ;-) Wasn't one of the miracles the "oil" that was used that lasted 8 days instead of one? > > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. > > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Oh..... in the box!!! Is that what SP meant??? Yes, big candle > industry ... the rebels amongst us use oil instead. ;-) No.... I meant in the Festival of Lights, (Isn't that what Chanaukah is...?...) Here's what I understand it to be: This shin-dig lasts 14 days, during which you light another candle on the wreath thingie, sing songs, dance, then all go downtown for a Kosher Scotch on the rocks while eating a Kosher carrot and Cabbage salad... I thought it was a religeous holiday,,,, as in commemorating the time God permitted you-all to have Beatles' hair cuts... a real miracle... We Catholics have similar commemorations,,,, like the various Crusades... y'all remember those good times, surely..... and near my French ancestral home: the big party with the Cathars... BUT!!! We did pennance for our transgressions: we said three 'Hail Marys', four 'Our Fathers' and we sang the Agnus Dei.... and it was OK... we were granted access to Heaven again... I guess you could say we are just some Wild and Crazy Guys... Martin Luther decided it was too wild... Henry VIII decided he wanted to be able to Divorce... ... and I wanted to stop goin' to Mass on Sundays... Dominus Vobiscum Cheers SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. >> > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >No.... I meant in the Festival of Lights, (Isn't that what Chanaukah >is...?...) Here's what I understand it to be: No you are describing the old custom of Festivus ........ There is a pole that is very traditional. Joel >This shin-dig lasts 14 days, during which you light another candle on >the wreath thingie, sing songs, dance, then all go downtown for a Kosher [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Cheers >SP Ah........ Seinfeld. TW > >> > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. > >> > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Cheers > >SP >Ah........ Seinfeld. > >TW YES! A hugely funny episode. Joel >> >> > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. >> >> > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >Cheers >> >SP > No you are describing the old custom of Festivus ........ > > There is a pole that is very traditional. > > Joel My favorite part is the airing of grievances. "I got a problem with you people!!!!" T >> No you are describing the old custom of Festivus ........ >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >T Would be no problem for us "internet people." > > > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. > > > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Cheers > SP You are an absolute riot, SP!!!! I repeat, a RIOT!!!!! :-) 'Some of us' need to head up there next year just to see if you're telling the truth or lyyyyyyyyyyin. Fourteen (count 'em 10 + 4 = 14) days of ???? festivities??????? for Hannukah??? Maybe you're confusing the High Holy Days and Sukkot with ... now.. they run into one another. Actually, Jews have one festival,that I know of, which not only allows, but encourages overindulgence! -- Purim! TW ;-) > Fourteen (count 'em 10 + 4 = 14) > days of ???? festivities??????? for Hannukah??? ... 'guess Ah wuz spellin' it the French way... Channaukah... >Maybe you're confusing > the High Holy Days and Sukkot with ... now.. they run into one another. > Actually, Jews have one festival,that I know of, which not only allows, > but encourages overindulgence! -- Purim! > > TW ;-) ...a-HA! .... FamiliPrix... ... ;-) SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >> Fourteen (count 'em 10 + 4 = 14) >> days of ???? festivities??????? for Hannukah??? > >... 'guess Ah wuz spellin' it the French way... Channaukah... I have seen lots of spellings with two "n"s but generally there is the two "k" spelling as well .... Joel >>Maybe you're confusing >> the High Holy Days and Sukkot with ... now.. they run into one another. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >... ;-) >SP ...... and on another note, one is amazed at the difference between (middle) eastern and western religions. In western religions the hierchy ascends like a pyramid with each layer above having fewer members but getting more respect than the layer below. The cathedrals and churches reflect this architecturally. Now visit a mosque, or an orthodox Jewish congregation and one finds each person kind of on their own with their religious fervor. Of course there are various "leaders," but liturgically speaking, they have little authority. People have pointed out that although it is written somewhere that the thing begins at say 9:00a, many people show up at 10:00a or later, while some are there at 7:30a. And people come and go as they please! Its just a different culture and different acculturation process. Its a very interesting contrast, and perhaps one reason why east and west do not understand each other completely. Joel >> > > >How many candles are there in the hanukiah? I'm guessing fourteen. >> > > >Cheers and happy Chanukah [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > >TW ;-) >>They were writing for the masses of their era, with all the limitations >> inherant of those times. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Vaughn It proves that parafunction goes way back in time. Don't you remember reading about great wailing and gnashing of teeth? -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? > > Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? > > > >Vaughn > > It proves that parafunction goes way back in time. > Don't you remember reading about great wailing and gnashing of teeth? True. Good one! Vaughn > > Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Adenosine > Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? What did they call the Biblical NTI I wonder....?..... Don't recall anything off hand, but of course Ste Appolonia had her teeth extracted with no ale or other ansethetic to force her to renounce Jesus. Dominus Vobiscum SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet > Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? > >Vaughn An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > > Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Good one! You are sharp, W_B!!!!! TW:-) >> Just to stay on topic: Is there anything in the Bible about teeth? >> >>Vaughn >> > An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. > - Heres one of my favorites: Genesis 49:11-13 11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. 12 His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk. >"Tim Dixon" <timgdixon@cox.net> wrote in message news:wspvd.4716$2r.3157@fed1read02... >Genesis 49:11-13 >11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, > his colt to the choicest branch; > he will wash his garments in wine, > his robes in the blood of grapes. >12 His eyes will be darker than wine, >his teeth whiter than milk. So The Bible says that tooth whitening is good? Vaughn > >Genesis 49:11-13 > >11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Vaughn I just hope it doesn't mean we were meant to do the "toilet-bowl white" thing. Yuk! Tooooooooooooo much of a goooooooood thing is not so good. TW I believe there is a specific reference to laser whitening. So The Bible says that tooth whitening is good? Vaughn The version in front of me says: 11 "Tying his full-grown a.s to a vine and the descendant of his own she-a.s to a choice vine, he will certainly wash his clothing in wine and his garment in the blood of grapes. 12 "Dark red are his eyes from wine and the whiteness of his teeth is from milk" Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... Heres one of my favorites: Genesis 49:11-13 11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. 12 His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk. I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be reading the American Standard Version (ASV). Its actually from Jacob speaking to his sons, the twelve tribes, and that passage is to Judah and is also a typing of the coming Messiah who will come from Judah in the line of David. King James: Gen 49:11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes: Gen 49:12 His eyes shall be red with wine, and his teeth white with milk. The version in front of me says: 11 "Tying his full-grown a.s to a vine and the descendant of his own she-a.s to a choice vine, he will certainly wash his clothing in wine and his garment in the blood of grapes. 12 "Dark red are his eyes from wine and the whiteness of his teeth is from milk" -- ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... "Tim Dixon" <timgdixon@cox.net> wrote in message news:wspvd.4716$2r.3157@fed1read02... Heres one of my favorites: Genesis 49:11-13 11 He will tether his donkey to a vine, his colt to the choicest branch; he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. 12 His eyes will be darker than wine, his teeth whiter than milk. I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be reading the American Standard Version (ASV). Its actually from Jacob speaking to his sons, the twelve tribes, and that passage is to Judah and is also a typing of the coming Messiah who will come from Judah in the line of David. Gee, which one's correct? carabelli >I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be reading >the American Standard Version (ASV). Its actually from Jacob speaking to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >carabelli LOL, he didn't feel like talking to me when I said that there is no definitave script to the Bible. Said to leave other's out of it. I still say, if there was ever a definative script, it has been lost. Going word for word on a bible that's a translation of a text that's uncertain is just a poor idea. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be >>reading [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Going word for word on a bible that's a translation of a text that's > uncertain is just a poor idea. Thats not what I said at all. Re-read my post. It's your choice what you believe and I don't think you are genuine at all. You just wish to play some contradiction game and i'm done with you. Take it up with Jesus on Judgement Day. >>>I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be >>>reading [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >some contradiction game and i'm done with you. Take it up with Jesus on >Judgement Day. Of course I'm not genuine talking about this (because I don't believe in any God). I just think it's ridiculous to think that you can believe the Bible word for word when you don't know the exact words. WHAT is the definitive script? There is none! Do you think all the copies (and the errors introduced in those copies) are also inerrant because the original was inspired by God? While I don't think the message has changed, I think you have to take the words of the Bible in an allegorical sense. Why else would Jesus teach in parables if He didn't want you to THINK and INTERPET the Bible? -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>>>I was quoting from the New International Version (NIV). You must be >>>>reading [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > teach in parables if He didn't want you to THINK and INTERPET the > Bible? I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you *can't* understand the Bible or it's meaning because you are not filled with the Holy Spirit. I would quote you the scripture but you would resist that too. And thats the plain and simple of it. You can go through the rest of your life and not believe in God but one day, every knee will bend, every head will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. Unfortunately it will likely be too late for you then as there are no second chances once your dead. I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of you or anyone like you. I pray you might have a changed heart but I will have to leave that to God at this point. [clip] > I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of you > or anyone like you. I pray you might have a changed heart but I will have > to leave that to God at this point. Freedom assures us of freedom of and from religion. TW > [clip] >> I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > TW Well said. I have a lot of respect for anyone who will discuss and debate religious topics without getting upset or angry. One of my brother-in-laws is ex-clergy. I can take any side of any religious debate with him. We can debate back and forth of hours and never get upset. In the end we go share an espresso together and remain friends. > > [clip] > >> I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > debate back and forth of hours and never get upset. In the end we go share > an espresso together and remain friends. Exactly as I see it should be. Found the thread ,,, this goes here! Thanks. Joel ** Posted on Tue, Dec. 14, 2004 Intelligent design edict is subject of ACLU suit By Martha Raffaele Associated Press HARRISBURG - The state American Civil Liberties Union plans to file a federal lawsuit today against a school district that is requiring students to learn about alternatives to the theory of evolution. The ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State have scheduled an afternoon news conference to discuss the lawsuit against the Dover Area School District, which will be filed in U.S. District Court in Harrisburg, ACLU spokesman Paul Silva said yesterday. Spokesmen for the two organizations would not comment on specifics of the complaint. The Dover school board voted 6-3 on Oct. 18 to mandate the teaching of "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power. The district is believed to be the first in the nation to adopt such a policy. Dover schools Superintendent Richard Nilsen had no comment yesterday. Administrators have declined to comment on the mandate, which applies to ninth-grade biology classes at Dover High School. Neither school board president Sheila Harkin nor school board member William Buckingham, who spearheaded the change as the leader of the board's curriculum committee, returned calls seeking comment. Buckingham has said previously that he proposed the change as a way of balancing evolution with competing theories that raised questions about its scientific validity. District officials said they would monitor the lessons "to make sure no one is promoting but also not inhibiting religion." >> > [clip] >> >> I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Exactly as I see it should be. >> [clip] >>> I am not going to waiver in my belief or stumble in my faith because of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > debate back and forth of hours and never get upset. In the end we go > share an espresso together and remain friends. Thank you Steve. >> I have a lot of respect for anyone who will discuss and debate religious >> topics without getting upset or angry. One of my brother-in-laws is >> ex-clergy. I can take any side of any religious debate with him. We can >> debate back and forth of hours and never get upset. In the end we go >> share an espresso together and remain friends. I feel the same way, but after the expresso is ordered, I would not leave it unattended while I went to the bathroom. TOO MANY stories out there! Joel In my family, no one gets up and leave their espresso un-attended. If it gets put in front of you, you drink it NOW. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>> I have a lot of respect for anyone who will discuss and debate religious [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Joel >I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, >because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you *can't* [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >or anyone like you. I pray you might have a changed heart but I will have >to leave that to God at this point. The good old non-believer argument? How does it make the FACT that there is no one 'official' text of the Bible any less true? I believe a number of Bible scholars would agree with me on this point. You can't attack my argument so you attack me. Show me the PROOF that there is a definative script that has never had a single error put into it because of copying! If God wanted to get his word out, making it so you can't understand the text until you believe in it is a really poor design. It makes so much SENSE that the Bible is meant to be interpeted, yet you can't give a good reason for it except "that's the way it is". -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? > >I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, > >because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you *can't* [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Adenosine > Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? Believe what you prefer to believe and let the rest do the same. Some may not agree but ... that's the way it goes. TW >>I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, >>because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > much SENSE that the Bible is meant to be interpeted, yet you can't > give a good reason for it except "that's the way it is". There is no "good old non-believer argument" that I'm aware of. Good luck in life. I'll keep praying for you. > >>I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, > >>because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Good luck in life. I'll keep praying for you. He prays for me too. And that's just fine with me because it is important to him. TW >>>I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, >>>because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > >Good luck in life. I'll keep praying for you. You don't even respond? You're no fun. Let me ask you, you say 'you aren't filled with the holy spirit' what is the holy spirit like? Is it like knowing why everything happens, a moment of perfect clarity where everything makes sense? -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>>>I'm going to be frank with you. Because you are an unconfessed sinner, >>>>because you reject God and reject His Salvation, that is Christ, you [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > is the holy spirit like? Is it like knowing why everything happens, a > moment of perfect clarity where everything makes sense? If I thought you were sincere I would enlighten you. >> You don't even respond? You're no fun. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >If I thought you were sincere I would enlighten you. I am ALWAYS sincere in my effort to understand other people's points of view. This is the same reason I have read multiple texts of all kinds of religions. I do not understand this kind of thinking, and that which I do not understand is always fascinating. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>> You don't even respond? You're no fun. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > religions. I do not understand this kind of thinking, and that which I > do not understand is always fascinating. You appear to be sincere in baiting people. I'll give you one shot, you go funny on me and I'm finished with the discussion. The Holy Spirit is a person, not an impersonal force. He is co-equal with the Father and the Son. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for salvation. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation, causing us to be born again (regenerated). He provides the born again Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right in the sight of God, not men. He also gives every believer one or more gifts for minstry, and He seeks to bear fruit in our changed character, making us more like Christ. As a Christian I seek to be filled with the Spirit and live under His control on a daily basis. I have included a short number of Scripture references for you as well. 2 Corinthians 3 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. John 3:3 3In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. John 16:7-13 7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts! 12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. Acts 1:8 8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." 1 Corinthians 2:12 have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 1 Corinthians 3:16 16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? 1 Corinthians 12:1-3 1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5:22-25 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and selfcontrol. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Ephesians 5:18 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Titus 3:5-7 5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. >>>> You don't even respond? You're no fun. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >You appear to be sincere in baiting people. I'll give you one shot, you go >funny on me and I'm finished with the discussion. OK. >The Holy Spirit is a person, not an impersonal force. He is co-equal with >the Father and the Son. He is present in the world to make men aware of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >a daily basis. I have included a short number of Scripture references for >you as well. So how you do you if you are filled with the Holy Spirit? Do you just believe in the words of Jesus and try to do God's will, and have faith that you will be filled? >2 Corinthians 3 >17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance >was fading away. Is this suggesting that when Moses saw God, that he was filled with the Holy Spirit? Or does just say that Christians should not try to hide their connection with The Lord? I have a few questions about the citations below. >Acts 1:8 >8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is >Lord," except by the Holy Spirit. There are obviously many people out there who would say 'Jesus is Lord' but do not follow any of the Christian teachings, as you can tell by their actions. Is this being used in a more metephorical sense such that you can't BELIEVE Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit? >Galatians 5:22-25 >22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled >with the Spirit. Is this suggesting that being filled with the Holy Spirit is euphoric, like wine, or does it mean that when one is filled that they need not euphoria from intoxicants? >Titus 3:5-7 >5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of >his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the >Holy Spirit, 6whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our >Savior, 7so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs >having the hope of eternal life. Thank you for your clarification on these points. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? Opps.. that was poorly edited before submital, but you should get the gist of it. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>>>> You don't even respond? You're no fun. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > believe in the words of Jesus and try to do God's will, and have faith > that you will be filled? I have always been filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment I recieved salvation. What I mean by seeking to be filled is I try and not do things to grieve the Spirit and break my fellowship with God the Father. The Word is Jesus and I feed upon the Word, seeking God's perfect will in my life. That I might lead others to the same relationship I have with Him. >>2 Corinthians 3 >>17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the Holy Spirit? Or does just say that Christians should not try to > hide their connection with The Lord? Yes Moses was filled with the Holy Spirit. In Old Testament days the Spirit of God came upon men to perform tasks, miracles, signs and wonders for many purposes. It is different now that the Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus into the world for all after the Resurrection during Pentecost. > I have a few questions about the citations below. > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > tell by their actions. Is this being used in a more metephorical sense > such that you can't BELIEVE Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit? I'm not sure about people who call Him Lord and yet don't follow Him. How couldn't you? When I say Jesus is Lord of Lords, King of Kings, it is because the Spirit of Truth lives in me and has revealed to me through Scripture, prayer, circumstances, other believers, etc., that He is Lord & Master. >>Galatians 5:22-25 >>22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > like wine, or does it mean that when one is filled that they need not > euphoria from intoxicants? Thats exactly what it means. However there are times when in prayer, worship, fellowship with other believers, studying Scripture, quiet times, even when I sin, that I have a certain feeling of the Holy Spirits presence in me. >>Titus 3:5-7 >>5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thank you for your clarification on these points. You're welcome. > -- > Adenosine > Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>John 16:7-13 >>7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the Holy Spirit? Or does just say that Christians should not try to > hide their connection with The Lord? I sort of overlooked part of your question. No we should never be ashamed to give testimony to the riches and glory that is in Christ Jesus, when we do, the Spirit leads us and causes us to speak boldly about Jesus, which in some ways is similar to the radiance on the face of Moses after his first trip up the mountain. I have a somewhat different take. There are riches and glory in the Christ consciousness. And Jesus was a fine example of that consciousness. But by focusing on Jesus, who was a physical embodiment, it is all too easy to lose the focus of the qualities of the Christ, which represents the unseen spiritiual qualities, such as kindness, joy, inner peace, gratitude, etc. Whereas Jesus lived in a time and a place, the Christ is something that lives whenever we live it. If a book assists you in living it, by all means use that tool. The New Testament Bible is about the life of Jesus. The life of Christ is timeless, and reaches beyond the book. Jesus doesn't save after all; it's the consciousness of the qualities of the Christ that does the saving. Our job is to move more and more in that direction. I have good moments and not so good ones. >I have a somewhat different take. There are riches and glory in the > Christ consciousness. And Jesus was a fine |
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