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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004Recommendations
Dear Experienced Dental Professionals, The dentist I work for is looking into the purchase of an interoral camera. As the house geek I have been doing the research and participating in the demo. At this writing, I say that at $15,000 for the basic unit - a non too impressive product made by Gendex (supposedly the latest and greatest) - plus the grossly overpriced software update from our PM software - upgrading our digital camera seems to me to be the better and far less expensive choice. And while this "upgrade" touts the ability to whiten and otherwise alter teeth, PhotoShop CS runs circles around it. Even Corel PhotoPaint is light years beyond the latest and greatest for sale in the interoral line. We already get excellent results from the dinosaur we are using, even interior shots snapped against occlusal mirrors turn out much better than what we have seen with interoral cameras. A simple USB allows the image to go directly into our PM software I calculate that three user licenses for PS, an inkjet printers and a top of the line digital camera can all be had for less than $2500. Plus you don't have to upgrade computers. Firewire technology is cheap and images easily imported into the PM Document Center for viewing later, make interoral a bust to me. However, comments, advice, opinions are welcome as I don't want to say that I didn't look into everything before I make my final recommendations. TIA Kelly Kirsch >Dear Experienced Dental Professionals, > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Kelly Kirsch If your mind is open we can discuss options. Sounds like you have already made up your mind. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. Dear Dr. Steve, If my mind were already made up, I wouldn't have gone to the trouble to ask. What I had posted were simply my own personal findings based on the demonstrations we have already seen. However, if I hadn't made myself clear, let me rephrase my request: If you or any other dental office are using an interoral camera integrated into the Dentrix practice management software I would be very interested in what you have to say. TIA for yours and other experienced professional opinions. Regards, Kelly Kirsch >Dear Dr. Steve, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Kelly Kirsch What specifically do you hope to learn? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. > What specifically do you hope to learn? Personal experience using an interoral camera such as: 1. How well has your camera integrated with your Dentrix software. What version of Dentrix are you using 2. Are you on a network? How often do your experience crashes? 3. What type of server? 4. What type of workstations? Dell? HP? Custom builds? OS? RAM? 5. Are workstations in each operatory? 6. For what do you use your interoral? Just to take pictures inside someone's mouth? Imaging purposes? 7. Do you do your own imaging or sent it out? 8. Printer, what type. 9. Did your purchase deliver as promised? 10. Has case acceptance increased significantly as a result of using it? Do you use Dentrix Practice Management software with an interoral camera? If you do, I would be interested in your comments. Regards, Kelly Kirsch > .. > Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. > Troy, Michigan, USA > > Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. I don't use Dentrix, but can offer generic advice >> What specifically do you hope to learn? > >Personal experience using an interoral camera such as: > >1. How well has your camera integrated with your Dentrix software. What >version of Dentrix are you using Other PMS >2. Are you on a network? How often do your experience crashes? Hard wired network. Don't use wireless. Network has never crashed in 7 years. >3. What type of server? Dedicated server, purpose built for this use. >4. What type of workstations? Dell? HP? Custom builds? OS? RAM? Some custom built Dells, & some custom builds. Mostly XP sp #2. As much RAM as will fit. MATRox cards do not work with SP #2. Do not use "Store bought" PC's useless you can specify which parts are used inside of it. >5. Are workstations in each operatory? of course >6. For what do you use your interoral? Just to take pictures inside >someone's mouth? Imaging purposes? Documentation of lesions. Magnification of preps. Pre and Post treatment images of teeth. Proof to insurance companies that crown/onlay was cemented. 20 to 30 images of a new patient's teeth who needs lots of dentistry for discussion and treatment plans >7. Do you do your own imaging or sent it out? Huh? >8. Printer, what type. ink jet >9. Did your purchase deliver as promised? yes >10. Has case acceptance increased significantly as a result of using it? Intra-oral camera is not used to sell dentistry. It is used to improve quality of dentistry. >Do you use Dentrix Practice Management software with an interoral camera? >If you do, I would be interested in your comments. ES .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. It DOES sell....... > I don't use Dentrix, but can offer generic advice > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. The camera can convince a patient to have needed work done, but that is the least useful thing you can do with it.  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > It DOES sell....... > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor > handwriting. > It DOES sell....... I agree. We have found that when we can show a patient what the problem is, or show them the possibilities of cosmetic dental restorations case acceptance increases. I'm just not certain that a 15k+ investment in an interoral camera whose results are far less than a cheap digital camera is a good investment. But I am eager to hear success stories. Particularly from users of the Dentrix practice management software. Kelly Kirsch A good I/O Camera is only about $5K. You can even get them cheaper if you can live with fewer features. If you are interfacing it into the PMS, you don't need the special printer, storage devices, etc. I use a Vistacam. It works GREAT with ES. I never use the camera to "sell" dentistry. I use it to document dentistry. I may show the new patient what was done in the past on their teeth and how it is holding up, but this is NOT a selling effort. It is education. I use it primarily to make my dentistry better by magnifying preparations and examining internal aspects of larger preps in great detail. I also use it to document these cases both to bragging to the patient afterwards, and for sending to insurance carriers. I routinely magnify my work (post-op) with the camera and show the patient how their tooth looks at 14X magnification. I want them to know how much effort I am putting into my work. If you are buying a camera to "sell" dentistry, you are buying it for the wrong reason. Your patients will trust your judgment if you always take the time to educate them about their mouth and teeth. Digital radiography and I/O Cameras go together for demonstrating what you are seeing. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> It DOES sell....... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Kelly Kirsch >A good I/O Camera is only about $5K. You can even get them cheaper if you >can live with fewer features. If you are interfacing it into the PMS, you >don't need the special printer, storage devices, etc. I use a Vistacam. It >works GREAT with ES. Many cams are analog but one needs a digital to go into a computer! Joel >I never use the camera to "sell" dentistry. I use it to document dentistry. EXCELLENT. >I may show the new patient what was done in the past on their teeth and how >it is holding up, but this is NOT a selling effort. It is education. I use [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >time to educate them about their mouth and teeth. Digital radiography and >I/O Cameras go together for demonstrating what you are seeing. >Many cams are analog but one needs a digital to go into a computer! > >Joel Not with a video capture card. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>Many cams are analog but one needs a digital to go into a computer! >> >>Joel > >Not with a video capture card. YUP a video capture card converts analog to digital. > >Not with a video capture card. > > YUP a video capture card converts analog to digital. [preamble, feel free to ignore] Greetings once more from the Gothic/Vampire/Night-Shift/Weirdo gallery: 'tis 11:28 and I am not able to keep my eyes open this night (usually I'm insomniac, but that &&?%$ Gail Advocate post I wrote this weekend took MUCH longer that I had planned... finished VERY late/early in the night of Saturday; Don't think I'm cut out to be a Psych: you put your heart into something, and they flake out on you anyways... Don't misunderstand: IMO, it's human to have problems; it's what you DO about it that sometimes ties my intestines into fish netting..) so I'll be brief... PLUS, there's a impatient little rabbit pulling my pant leg: he wants his veggie potatoe chip and lettuce snack b/4 bedding down in his cage for the night. [/preamble] In following this thread, there are posts that are 1 day and a bit old on my MacSoup, and others are much younger than that. (MacSoup gives you a temporal and relational diagram of the threads). Between the two, there are posts that are obviously younger that the 1 day and a bit one, but they are greyed out and are therefore inaccessible. I have noticed this a lot lately, and it is simply unacceptable, especially in a thread such as this. Without having checked extensively, I *think* the greyed out posts are coming from some of the regs. This being the case, would someone kindly explain WIGO with these posts? Is this my own server's problem? If that is so, Roy should be having the same annoyances. Anyone else having this problem? Any info appreciated. Thanks, gang SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet . ...................... >>A good I/O Camera is only about $5K. You can even get them cheaper if you >>can live with fewer features. If you are interfacing it into the PMS, you [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Many cams are analog but one needs a digital to go into a computer! Your video capture card should have both S-Video and Composite inputs. > I never use the camera to "sell" dentistry. You work for free? Kelly Kirsch >> I never use the camera to "sell" dentistry. > >You work for free? > >Kelly Kirsch He calls in a sketch artist when he wants to do some selling ..... The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is a tool for improving quality of dentistry and for making education better. If your only intent is to use it to "sell", then you will eventually be very disappointed, as it does not make up for a dentist who does not communicate well. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> I never use the camera to "sell" dentistry. > > You work for free? > > Kelly Kirsch > The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is a > tool for improving quality of dentistry and for making education better. If > your only intent is to use it to "sell", then you will eventually be very > disappointed, as it does not make up for a dentist who does not communicate > well. I hope that I've not given the wrong impression, but I am not a dentist. I'm not even a hygienist nor an assistant. Actually I handle doctor's marketing and by default of experience have morphed into the practice geek. Kelly Kirsch I/O cameras are relatively cheap now-a-days. You should be spending no more than $5K unless it needs to be a stand-alone device. If so, you will be wasting money, as you will probably go all digital before that device is totally depreciated. I know lots of dentist who pay more than this for a monthly lab bill. Just make sure the camera is mounted close to the dentist in a permanent position where he/she can pick it up any time the need seems apparent. Buy an extra one for the RDH, assuming you can get her to use it. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Kelly Kirsch >I/O cameras are relatively cheap now-a-days. You should be spending no more >than $5K unless it needs to be a stand-alone device. WHOT??? Not your father's Instamatic I guess. Joel > If so, you will be >wasting money, as you will probably go all digital before that device is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >position where he/she can pick it up any time the need seems apparent. Buy >an extra one for the RDH, assuming you can get her to use it. >> The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is >a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I hope that I've not given the wrong impression, but I am not a dentist. >I'm not even a hygienist nor an assistant. Us either, but we play them on the internet ...... >Actually I handle doctor's >marketing and by default of experience have morphed into the practice geek. > >Kelly Kirsch > Actually I handle doctor's >marketing and by default of experience have morphed into the practice geek. > >Kelly Kirsch Good enough! Welcome! Joel > > Actually I handle doctor's > >marketing and by default of experience have morphed into the practice geek. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Welcome! Thank you kindly. Both for the welcome and taking time to write. I appreciate both very much. Kelly Kirsch >The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is a >tool for improving quality of dentistry and for making education better. If >your only intent is to use it to "sell", then you will eventually be very >disappointed, as it does not make up for a dentist who does not communicate >well. Yes but, a picture is worth a thousand words. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Yes but, a picture is worth a thousand words. > -- Agreed,,,,,,,,,,,, for education. You educate the patient as to what is wrong with their mouth and what can be done. The patient will then ask for the work. If you push work on them, they will not appreciate, take care of it, nor be very willing to pay for it. > >The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. Plain and simple. It is a > >tool for improving quality of dentistry and for making education better. If [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Yes but, a picture is worth a thousand words. You have that one right. Since we have begun to digitally image our patients before and after smiles, case acceptance increased. We also have a hygienist who is a sellin' fool. She moves Sonicare's at $100/pop, BreathRX, and root planing like a pro. She's not pushy, simply matter of fact. Of course, it's pretty hard not to agree to perio maintenance every three months when your advanced periodontal disease oozing from your 9mm pockets is staring you right in the face from a monitor in the operatory. Thank you WB for your input, Kelly Kirsch >Thank you WB for your input, > >Kelly Kirsch You are welcomed. It has been my experience that if you show the patient the problem, ie. 'let the patient see what the doc sees' (a paraphrase of what I say) that most patients want treatment. Then present the treatment options and let the patient decide what they want/can afford. I don't see that as selling, just presenting the problem and the possible solutions. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >>Thank you WB for your input, >> >>Kelly Kirsch > >You are welcomed. Wecomed by ..... (?)(?) >It has been my experience that if you show the patient >the problem, ie. 'let the patient see what the doc sees' [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I don't see that as selling, just presenting the problem >and the possible solutions. > >Thank you WB for your input, > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I don't see that as selling, just presenting the problem > and the possible solutions. Yes, perhaps it's just a matter of semantics, but to paraphrase a saying we use in the marketing world "without advertising, you wouldn't know". I thank you again for your insight and for taking time to write. To exchange information with actual dentists is a very valuable tool that I appreciate much. Kelly Kirsch > -- > W_B > > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE >The camera is not a tool for selling dentistry. However, the place down the street uses DENTISTRY to sell cameras! Dr. Steve, Thank you for your insight. Kelly Kirsch > I don't use Dentrix, but can offer generic advice > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. >However, comments, advice, opinions are welcome as I don't want to say that >I didn't look into everything before I make my final recommendations. > >TIA > >Kelly Kirsch I'd say that you have a better handle on it than most dentists. -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE |
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