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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004

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Moratorium Addendum

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W_B - 02 Dec 2004 17:17 GMT
Recommend adding:

CZ
CMSRP
Advocate

Who is on board ?

Dec.03, 2004

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Advocate147 - 02 Dec 2004 17:19 GMT
What is there a moratorium on?

Gail
Linda - 02 Dec 2004 17:22 GMT
Sure - I'm in.
I think I know what's going on ...
But we need Dr. Steve's form letter to be posted every now and then, right?
So newbies are informed.
Linda.

> Recommend adding:
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 02 Dec 2004 23:07 GMT
Agreed.

>Sure - I'm in.
>I think I know what's going on ...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
>> Take out the G'RBAGE

--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 02 Dec 2004 17:34 GMT
>Recommend adding:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Dec.03, 2004

Add Speedy to that list.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
carabelli - 02 Dec 2004 19:23 GMT
>>Recommend adding:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> --
> W_B

Yup

RS will dissappear when some of this CX threading dissappears

carabelli
Adenosine - 02 Dec 2004 19:26 GMT
>>>Recommend adding:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>carabelli

But I enjoy talking to RS!

Guess I just like feeding the trolls, better slap myself.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
StovePipe - 03 Dec 2004 06:01 GMT
> >RS will dissappear when some of this CX threading dissappears
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Guess I just like feeding the trolls, better slap myself.
Begin:Rant
Then perhaps you should do it on _their_ side... I cannot believe the
amount of bullshit that has traffic-ed across the SMD this week... and I
am in no real position to say 'WTF are these riff-raff doing here?...',
as I often post 100 percent clowning horse-dung as well, but that is
truly how I feel. I don't want to sound prejudiced, but a lot of these
posters are welfare rejects who have nothing better to do than clog up
the Usenet bandwidth. SWNMNBM is a prime example. Again, I can't claim
any devine rights here just because I am a dentist, but it is now to the
point where I am not reading most of the posts, or picking a reg's
response at random to see if the thread is worth wasting time on, and
that decision is coming up more often in the negative than the positive.

I've made a solemn decision to stop feeding the above-mentioned in the
SMD (the only NG I make time for, and I am not connected at the
clinique), and I strongly suggest the regs do the same.

I MAY even (dare I say it....) stop clowning and trying to make people
chuckle a bit, if it will help bring the SMD back to some semblance of
.....worthiness.... and that is about the best word I can think of to
describe what the SMD is losing, IMO.

Killing obnoxious posters is not the answer. I have nobody in killed
mode. I ignore the riff raff and that is all. I think posting alternate
opinions to the steam roller posters' rants is the most appropriate way
of battling the ignorance they propagate.
OK, End Rant
Cheers
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Jan - 03 Dec 2004 07:47 GMT
>StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet  (StovePipe)

>Killing obnoxious posters is not the answer

LOLOLOL, everyone here except Steve Bornfeld would be killfiled.

>f battling the ignorance they propagate.

http://www.vimy-dentistry.com/nhanesstudy.htm

The Link Between Dental Fillings and Disease


Author:  Ernie Mezei B.Sc. B.A.Sc



Mr. Mezei is a chemist and electrical engineer working in the high-tech
industry in Toronto, Canada.  





NHANES III SCREENINGS – “THE WAY THINGS ARE”.  NO B.S. STUDIES.  THE
TRUTH ABOUT

DENTAL FILLINGS AND DISEASE.  COST:  $120 MILLION DOLLARS TO COLLECT.



On graphs below:  None = No Fillings,  1-7 = 1 Filling, 8-16 = 2-3 Fillings,
17-33 = 4-5 Fillings, 34-up = 6 or more Fillings

(Reason is filled surfaces were used.  There are 140 filled surfaces,
corresponding to all 28 teeth, in the mouth)





Preamble:  A search of the Internet confirmed that the survey used to create
this paper cost $120,000,000 US Dollars to collect:

The National Center for Health Statistics of the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention announces the availability of additional data files from the
third National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES III) These
additional data files include the Household Adult Questionnaire, the Household
Youth Questionnaire and the remaining Dietary files. These data files are from
the full six years of the NHANES III, 1988-94 and contain nearly all the data
collected in the NHANES III including the following previously released survey
components: Laboratory, Physician's examination, Body Measurements, Total
Nutrient Intakes, Mobile Examination Center (MEC) Proxy Questionnaire, Dental
Examination, Allergy Skin Test, Audiometry, Tympanometry, WISC/WRAT Cognitive
Tests, Spirometry, MEC Youth Questionnaire, Dietary Food Frequency, Diagnostic
Interview Schedule (DIS), MEC Adult Questionnaire, Bone Densitometry, Home
Examination, Gallbladder Ultrasonography, Central Nervous System Function
Evaluation, Fundus Photography, Physical Function Evaluation as well as
selected demographic data, population weights and strata-PSU codes. The Total
Nutrient Intake data has been revised to correct rounding errors in the
previous release of this data. For further information call the Data
Dissemination Branch at 301-436-8500. Data will be released July 28, 1997. Two
months on CD ROMs will cost approximately $25. The data cost $120 million to
collect. NHANES IV will be pretested in March 1998 and will be in the field by
September 1998. The study will run six years, and U.S. estimates can be made
with each year of data.





1.0  Introduction



For nearly two centuries, the profession of dentistry has been at war with
itself.  Now, as then, there are charges that charlatans have invaded the
profession and are undermining the scientific standards upon which it is based.
Today, any dentist who removes mercury dental fillings from a patient for
health reasons is charged as Unethical, and faces expulsion from the American
Dental Association (ADA).  In 1850, any dentist who placed mercury dental
fillings in a patient was charged as unethical and expelled from the American
Society of Dental Surgeons (ASDS), the forerunner of the ADA.



The reason for this controversy is longstanding, and simple:  Mercury Dental
Fillings, also known as Silver Amalgam, contain 50% Mercury, and mercury is the
most toxic non-radioactive element towards human life.  However, the fact that
Mercury is a poison has not been proof that Dental Amalgam is a poison, until
now.  I looked at the Survivor Rates using the International Classification of
Disease Codes (ICD-9-CM) from the U.S. National Health and Nutritional Exam
Survey 3 (NHANES III), and found dramatic differences in dental filling rates
for people suffering from a variety of diseases, as compared to the dental
fillings rate in the general population.  The NHANES III sample represents
180,072,328 Adult Americans, who are the General Adult Population 17 Years of
age and older between 1988 and 1994.



I found the General Population is 22% Filling-Free, and almost all major
disease groups were either Above or Below this number.  If Dental Fillings had
no effect on health, all disease groups would be at 22% Filling-Free, which is
clearly not the case.



In summary, the Larger the Survivor Group for a Particular Disease (ie
Circulatory Illness), the more this group is Filling-Free compared to the
General Population.



Example:  For Circulatory Disease, the Survivor Group in the United States has
a size of 27,200,000.  The Filling-Free percentage is 33% in this population,
the remaining 67% have Dental Fillings.  The General Population of 180,072,328
Adult Americans is only 22% Filling-Free, while 78% have dental fillings.



I also found that the Smaller the Survivor Group, the more this group has
Dental-Fillings compared to the General Population:



Example:  For ICD Codes 340-349, “Other disorders of the central nervous
system”, which includes Multiple Sclerosis, Other demyelinating diseases of
central nervous system, Other paralytic syndromes, Epilepsy, Migraine,
Cataplexy and narcolepsy, Cerebral cysts, and Other and unspecified disorders
of the nervous system, the Population Size is 1,600,000.  In this survivor
group, fully 95% have Dental Fillings, as compared to 78% in the General Adult
American Population of 180,072,328.



It is the stark increased ABSENCE of Dental Fillings in the Circulatory Disease
Survivors and the simultaneous increased PRESENCE of Dental Fillings in the
MS/Paralysis/Seizures/Migraines Survivors that is cause for alarm.  The General
Population has a Filling Rate of 78%, and yet in these two survivor groups the
filling rates are 67% and 95% respectively.  Clearly, something is occurring.



The differences between the Large Survivor Groups and Smaller Survivor Groups
are even more dramatic when you consider that the Large Groups are surviving
illnesses which are acute, and often fatal.  People don’t “live” with
Heart Disease like they do with Multiple Sclerosis.  Medical science today
still cannot predict which people will get which illness, but we can
confidently say that Dental Fillings have an impact on survival, and one key
may be to remove Mercury Dental Fillings to lower your risk in both categories,
Large and Small Survivor Groups.



This discovery is based on government health data, freely available to any
researcher, and can be easily verified at
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/about/major/nhanes/datalink.htm by downloading the
NHANES III datafile, and verifying the statistical analysis which will be
discussed throughout this paper for many disease groups.





2.0   SURVIVAL DATA.



Methodology:  I did not look merely at all 28 teeth, a more granular analysis
was done by looking at all 140 Tooth Surfaces as defined by modern dentistry.
Groupings were made as follows:  No Filled Surfaces, 1-7, 8-16, 17-33, 34-up.
This allowed for a fairly even distribution for the General Population in the
United States (approximately 20% in each of the 5 categories, for a total of
100%).  Then the Filled Surfaces distribution was computed for each ICD Disease
Chapter, Sub-Chapter, or Individual Code.  The two resulting groups
(Distribution of Fillings of those who have the Disease <Yes> and Distribution
of Fillings of those who do not have the Disease <No>) were then plotted.  



Note:  In all cases, the Distribution of those who don’t have the disease was
nearly identical to the General Adult Population Distribution (180 Million
people), as the largest chapter looked at (Circulatory System) had only 27
Million persons, as compared to its corresponding non-disease group of 157
Million.  This feature is evident as you look at all the graphs to follow, and
is a powerful element of this analysis.





2.1   Diseases of the Circulatory System



Population Size:  27,200,000 are survivors of diseases in this category.



ICD Chapter 7 Codes: Diseases of the circulatory system (390-459).  Includes:



    acute rheumatic fever (390-392)

    chronic rheumatic heart disease (393-398)

    hypertensive disease (401-405)

    ischemic heart disease (410-414)

    diseases of pulmonary circulation (415-417)

    other forms of heart disease (420-429)

    cerebrovascular disease (430-438)

    diseases of arteries, arterioles, and capillaries (440-448)

    diseases of veins and lymphatics, and other diseases of circulatory system
(451-459)



Legend:  The dotted line on the graph below is the dental filling distribution
of survivors who have the diseases above (Chapter 7), the solid line is the
remaining U.S. Population that does not have these diseases.  The solid line is
almost identical to the “norm”, as in this case it represents 153,000,000
people.







Authors:  I found that the Survivor Group for Circulatory Disease was 33%
Filling-Free, compared to 22% in the General Population and 19.5% in the
Non-Disease Group.



Conclusion:  Survivors of Circulatory Disease have a Filling-Free Rate 50%
Higher than the General Population, and 60% Higher than the Group that does not
have the disease.









2.2   Diseases of the Central Nervous System - Other



Population Size:  1,600,000 are survivors of diseases in this sub-category.



ICD Chapter 3 - Diseases of the nervous system and sense organs (320-389)



Sub-Chapter Presented Here:  OTHER DISORDERS OF THE CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM
(340-349)



    340 Multiple sclerosis

    341 Other demyelinating diseases of central nervous system

    342 Hemiplegia and hemiparesis

    343 Infantile cerebral palsy

    344 Other paralytic syndromes

    345 Epilepsy

    346 Migraine

    347 Cataplexy and narcolepsy

    348 Other conditions of brain

    349 Other and unspecified disorders of the nervous system



Legend:  The dotted line on the graph below is the dental filling distribution
of survivors who have the diseases above (Chapter 3 Subchapter 3)), the solid
line is the remaining U.S. Population that does not have these diseases.  The
solid line is identical to the “norm”, as in this case it represents
178,400,000 people out of a total U.S. Adult population of 180,072,328.





Authors:  I found that for the Survivor Group Other Diseases of the Central
Nervous System, 95% had Dental Fillings compared to 78% in the General
Population.  Only 5% of the Survivors were Filling-Free.



Conclusion:  The General Population is Filling-Free 400% more than the
Survivors of Chronic Other CNS Disease.







2.3  Review of All Diseases Screened, for Filling-Free Rates vs. Filling Rates.



I grouped the Diseases studied from NHANES III by population, and this table
shows dramatic results:





Chapter
Has this Disease
Fillings %
Filling-Free %
 U.S. Population


 
78
22
          180,072,328

CATEGORY A
 
 
 

7
Circulatory
67
33
            27,200,000

3
Endocrine
69
31
            18,800,000

16
Symptoms
69
31
            14,500,000

13
Connective
70
30
            11,800,000


 
Average
31.3
            72,300,000

CATEGORY B
 
 
 

9
Digestive
75
25
              9,400,000

5
Mental
79
21
              3,800,000

1
Infectious
81
19
              2,200,000

11
Pregnancy
81
19
                  44,865


 
Average
21.0
            15,444,865

CATEGORY C
 
 
 

6
Nervous Sys
82
18
              5,200,000

8
Respiratory
82
18
            12,100,000

12
Skin
84
16
              3,020,000

10
Genitourinary
86
14
              6,700,000

2
Tumors
88
12
                333,000

4
Blood
88
12
                  39,125

17
Injuries/Poison
89
11
              4,500,000


 
Average
14.4
            31,892,125




Note:  People can belong to more than One Disease Group (which will make them
very sick indeed).

To calculate the non-disease Group size, subtract the Group Size for a specific
disease from 180,072,328.



Analysis:



1)      For Category A, the 4 Groups have a much higher Filling-Free average
than the General Population.  This group includes the Symptoms Group, that
special group of people who suffer from a myriad of symptoms having no organic
cause.  Clearly, suffering severe symptoms combined with Dental Fillings does
not bode well for survival if you are in this group.  Connective (Arthritis)
and Endocrine (Pancreas) are members of this group.  Survivor Category A has
far fewer dental fillings than the general population.



2)      For Category C, the 7 Groups have a much lower Filling-Free average
than the General Population.  These people suffer diseases of the nervous
system, skin, reproductive system, kidneys, and tend to injure themselves at a
rate far higher than the general population.  Survivor Category C has mouths
full of dental fillings as compared to the average, and endures terrible
suffering from the diseases of this category.



3)      Category B looked most like the Average Filling Rates of the U.S.
Population.  Interestingly, this group suffers from Digestive Problems and
Mental Stress, which are the Number 1 and 2 Complaints found at Doctor’s
Offices.  They are most often prescribed sedatives, tranquilizers,
anti-depressants, and stomach upset medication, and told there is no cause for
their complaints.  They also suffer Infections that require treatment.  







3.0  Conclusions



It is, for example, the stark increased ABSENCE of Dental Fillings in the
Circulatory Disease Survivors and the simultaneous increased PRESENCE of Dental
Fillings in the MS/Paralysis/Seizures/Migraines Survivors that is cause for
alarm.  The General Population has a Filling Rate of 78%, and yet in these two
survivor groups the filling rates are 67% and 95% respectively.  Clearly,
instead of a “small” effect, Dental Fillings are a “massive” effect.



This pattern repeated itself across all ICD-9-CM Codes we studied in the NHANES
III data set.  It is the simultaneous ABSENCE and PRESENCE of dental fillings
in Disease Survivors that was most alarming.  It has long been hypothesized,
for example, that Multiple Sclerosis is caused by mercury dental fillings, but
there was no proof linking the dental filling to the survivor.  The General
Population is 400% More Filling-Free than the 1.9 Million Americans who suffer
diseases in the MS Category.



It is important to note that this report is a Screening of NHANES III for
dental fillings rates versus disease, not a study of how mercury vapor from
dental amalgam causes illness.  The statistical research company that worked as
a sub-contractor on this project advises that they are concerned with such a
dramatic discovery in such a short time, and urged caution.  They advised us
that in the case of a Full-Blown Study of how dental amalgam causes illness,
“Intervening Variables” would have to be eliminated.  In the case of this
paper, what you are seeing is not a study, but a very simple screening of the
most expensive health survey in human history.  NHANES III cost $120,000,000 to
collect over a 6 year period between 1988 and 1994.  If this were a study (and
it is not clear exactly how one would go about “studying” how dental
amalgam causes illness, as that question has been going on for over 150 years),
we would have to perform statistical tricks like removing the effects of age or
diet from analysis to see if the statistics change (age becomes an intervening
variable if it affects the results).  For example people get more fillings as
they age, so if you remove the effects of age you remove fillings.  At any
rate, that is not the intent of this paper, to play games with the most
important health survey ever done.  The dramatic results in this paper, on the
first pass of screening analysis in an area previously unexplored, are strong
evidence that dental fillings are the True Intervening Variable.  The
implications of this report are that current health “studies” are wrong,
because dental fillings have never, ever been considered a “variable”.
Examples of this would be the Framingham Heart Study, which for 50 years
studied 5,000 citizens of Framingham, MA.  Dental fillings were simply never
looked at or considered a factor in human health.



We are aware that other scientists will attempt to duplicate and challenge
these screening results, but that is missing the point. The data is freely
available on the Internet, and the screening was carefully done and is correct.
Anyone with a statistical analysis package can duplicate this work in 2 days.
The point is actually that dental fillings are simply making people sick, and
that the most simple screening of the world’s most expensive health survey
found something that looks wrong.  Ask yourself this:  Dental fillings are a
physical feature.  Now when people get sick, they still have the same physical
features as before, don’t they?  Two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears, ten
fingers, ten toes, etc.   Except for dental fillings.  The sick people have
different rates of a physical feature called dental fillings than the people
who aren’t sick.  The difference is, this physical feature is made of 50%
mercury, unlike your eyes or ears that are made of bio-compatible materials.
That’s why what you are reading here isn’t a study.  What you are reading
here is a set of screenings that are showing us The Way It Is, from a survey
that cost $120,000,000.  The facts are these:  People get better from a host of
health problems (as seen on 60 Minutes in 1990) when they remove mercury dental
fillings, this screening now show that groups of people have different rates of
dental fillings based on disease.  No other medical analysis has ever
considered dental fillings as an effect, and tried to eliminate them through
statistical analysis.  I have done so, and these results are evidence that the
effect is strong and damaging to the health of the American People. If people
did not recover from illness by removing dental fillings, I would not have done
this screening in the first place
Clinton C Zimmerman - 03 Dec 2004 11:14 GMT
StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet (StovePipe) wrote in message
> I've made a solemn decision to stop feeding the above-mentioned in the
> SMD (the only NG I make time for, and I am not connected at the

The above mentioned? You mean people who question the use of amalgam.
What about your great quest to find a replacement material for amalgam.
Are you just going to abandon that?
StovePipe - 03 Dec 2004 12:58 GMT
> StovesNewAddy@sympatico.DOTnet (StovePipe) wrote in message
> > I've made a solemn decision to stop feeding the above-mentioned in the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What about your great quest to find a replacement material for amalgam.
> Are you just going to abandon that?

Not on your life..... I still HATE placing them in kids and adolescents
under the RAMQ regime.

But, YOU are in a better position to petition the world governments and
the research vehicles. Until things change, I cannot. So go do
something.
Regards
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 16:52 GMT
> > >RS will dissappear when some of this CX threading dissappears
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Cheers
> SP

Hello SP,

The Charter serves mainly as a guideline.  But if you examine it as a
guideline, you can see how easily the group's orderliness can dissolve
even when it is reasonable to expect exactly what you have described.

I have suggested (now and then) that the group discuss the contemporary
issues facing the newsgroup with regards to its original goals and
purposes.  For example, if "we" know to expect posters to introduce
"legislation issues in dentistry", then maybe the way to manage
discussions related to that could be better handled.

Maybe it is time to reexamine the "Discussion of dentally related
topics".

TW
___________________________

> Search Result 2From: Alec Ellsworth (alec@carie.mcs.mu.edu)
> Subject: Re: this group? View: Complete Thread (6 articles)
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> ellswort@studsys.mscs.mu.edu                            --Guy Kawasaki
> NeRD #3859

____________________
Dr. Steve - 03 Dec 2004 22:42 GMT
>> >RS will dissappear when some of this CX threading dissappears
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>Cheers
>SP
Don't forget to ignore the entire Hydra.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 07:07 GMT
> >OK, End Rant
> >Cheers
> >SP
> Don't forget to ignore the entire Hydra.
> ..
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Ummm... Don't forget that Herculese finally slayed the Hydra by
cauterizing the necks of after severing the head, thereby halting the
two head for one deal. WE could do the same.

My version is simply to get the riff raff to realize that they cannot
continue taking this NG hostage by bitching about an issue about which
they actually have no intention of mobilizing on; at least no farther
than sitting on their arses and pontificating about it in the cheap
internet cafés of Middle Earth.

IIRC, there is only ONE of them who actually got up and  made some
public statement on the TeeVee about it. IF they want change, THEY must
fight for it.... WE have no credibility with the governments, for we
have vested interests, in their eyes....

What we need is DIET RESTORATIONS with trans fats in 'em...
<deep breath...>
CHeers
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

StovePipe - 03 Dec 2004 12:58 GMT
> >Yup
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> --
> Adenosine
<opinion>
Just so things are clear: I have nothing against Adenosine, and I feel
he contributes quite a lot here, for a non-dental professional. We could
use more of his ilk.

It is just that we have enough riff-raff in the SMD without dragging
alt.tar.roofers and alt.submarine.sandwiches and all the others into
this NG. TRUTH BE KNOWN, while I am eternally grateful to know that
frugal living and all those other NG'S exist (thanks, JME), now that I
know they are there, I would rather go THERE to post than drag their ilk
into here.

Accordingly, I'm gonna make a second resolution, and that is to always
ERASE the CROSS POSTS... something I've grown lazy about lately. For
those who would cross post: Is it really that much longer to duplicate
the post and re-route it to get.routed.now and all the other NG's?
</opinion>
Thanks
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 03 Dec 2004 13:39 GMT
>Accordingly, I'm gonna make a second resolution, and that is to always
>ERASE the CROSS POSTS.

Agreed.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 17:02 GMT
> > >Yup
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> Thanks
> SP

SP, if you only follow this newsgroup, do you intend to never see any
posts that go to more than one group by way of a tool on your news
reader?  

I am finding that our collective laziness at allowing a thread to wander
too far from the original subject line is a big issue.  I'm to the
point, somewhat like you described, of skipping the majority of the
threads that have gone on far too long.

Maybe we could change the subject lines when we *know* that we are
taking our thoughts into a totally new direction from the original plan
for the thread.  Example:

"NTI in Los Angeles? Any recommendations fro Dentist?"

We are talking about our dogs now in that thread!!!!!  We should change
the subject line to "Dog ownership in smd".  But instead, myself as
guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
you know, we'll be talking about cars or something in the thread about
NTI availability in a particular city.

So, we should keep in mind that if we are going to criticize anyone, we
should begin with ourselves.  ;-)

Guilty me...
TW
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 17:10 GMT
In article
<nospamattmjiatroepidemicnospam-F1D811.09024503122004@orngca-news02.soca
l.rr.com>,

[snip]>
> "NTI in Los Angeles? Any recommendations fro [sic]Dentist?"

Sorry, "for Dentist" ...
TW
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 17:51 GMT
>But instead, myself as
>guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
>you know, we'll be talking about cars or something in the thread about
>NTI availability in a particular city.

So, what kind of car do you drive ?

8^]]
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 18:14 GMT
> >But instead, myself as
> >guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com

I drive a Volvo but I've had a variety... she's a nice road companion!  
But when "the dog" goes with, we take the Explorer and his kennel.
TW
Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 18:16 GMT
>> >But instead, myself as
>> >guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>But when "the dog" goes with, we take the Explorer and his kennel.
>TW

Bah, I still like my car -- the '85 Honda Accord hatchback. I got a
full tank of gas, drove to my Grandparents house half way across the
state for Thanksgiving, and I'm still on that same gas today.

Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
not a car and an SUV.

Actually, thinking about it, if I had put all the money I've spend on
dentistry in the last 6mo into a savings account, I could almost pay
for a new Kia in cash...

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 18:35 GMT
> >> >But instead, myself as
> >> >guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

One car for her, one car for him, and when it strikes our fancy, we can
share!!  An SUV is far more essential to some families than others.  The
SUV has made lots of long trips filled with "goods" belonging to others.  
No way would the Volvo have been able to do that.  

You could ride a bicycle and save all your gas money.
TW
StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 07:07 GMT
> You could ride a bicycle and save all your gas money.
> TW

Or a Zamboni Laser and do gum surgeries and such as you go (assumin' it
is workin' o' course...)
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 03 Dec 2004 18:54 GMT
>>> >But instead, myself as
>>> >guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>dentistry in the last 6mo into a savings account, I could almost pay
>for a new Kia in cash...

Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 19:02 GMT
>>>> >But instead, myself as
>>>> >guilty as anyone, we just keep the same old subject line and next thing
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
>Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.

Comes with a 10 year warrantee, how many dentists give that on their
work? "I'll give you this new crown, and if you do a regular
maintanence schedule, I'll replace or fix it if it fails within 10
years."

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 21:56 GMT
>>Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.
>
>Comes with a 10 year warrantee, how many dentists give that on their
>work? "I'll give you this new crown, and if you do a regular
>maintanence schedule, I'll replace or fix it if it fails within 10
>years."

Guaranteed dentistry is llegal in most states.

Will guarantee it until you walk out the door.

Do free replacements if something doesn't last as long
as I think it should.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 22:55 GMT
>>>Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Guaranteed dentistry is llegal in most states.

Why? Is it the same reason that advertising was illegal (no reason at
all)?

>Will guarantee it until you walk out the door.

Remind me to chew on some rocks while I put on my coat.

>Do free replacements if something doesn't last as long
>as I think it should.

Rather subjective policy, don't you think?

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 23:53 GMT
>>Guaranteed dentistry is llegal in most states.
>
>Why? Is it the same reason that advertising was illegal (no reason at
>all)?

Smarter men than me created the law.

>>Will guarantee it until you walk out the door.
>
>Remind me to chew on some rocks while I put on my coat.

Don't forget the sticks and leaves.
BTW what coat ?

>>Do free replacements if something doesn't last as long
>>as I think it should.
>
>Rather subjective policy, don't you think?

Depends, less than a year for a direct restoration.
Replaced @ n/c
Recurrent decay around a crown is the patient's fault, usually.
Crowned tooth that needs endo in less than one year ?
Endo charged, new crown free.

If I did the restoration, who better to decide than me ?
You ? Mancuso, Bornfeld, Fawks, carabelli, JME, etc...?
They weren't there. I was.

>--
>Adenosine

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 00:24 GMT
> >>Guaranteed dentistry is llegal in most states.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

All of the people with failed materials in the TMJs -- materials that
the FDA determined to be defective, did not get free surgery to replace
what the material destroyed, Adenosine.

This is a really important thing to understand.  There are no guarantees
in medicine.  But it sounds like W_B's policy is very reasonable and I'm
sure his patients appreciate it.

What's fair is fair.  Put on balance, nothing is ever going to be fair
for everyone.

TW
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:21 GMT
>> If I did the restoration, who better to decide than me ?
>> You ? Mancuso, Bornfeld, Fawks, carabelli, JME, etc...?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>the FDA determined to be defective, did not get free surgery to replace
>what the material destroyed, Adenosine.

Had some patients with Pro-Plast implants that the surgeon
removed for free. Had other patients from the same surgeon
who were called in about the recall and refused the removal surgery.

Not all Pro-Plast impants were failures.

>This is a really important thing to understand.  There are no guarantees
>in medicine.  

Right, do you sue the cardio-vascular surgeon if bypass fails ?
Wait ! Yer ded, cannot sue, what then ?
May sound cruel but them's the facts.

>But it sounds like W_B's policy is very reasonable and I'm
>sure his patients appreciate it.

Thanks and yes they do.
Gotta tell you that this happens less than 3 times/year.

>What's fair is fair.  Put on balance, nothing is ever going to be fair
>for everyone.

That is why I carry an equalizer.

>TW

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 04:06 GMT
> >> If I did the restoration, who better to decide than me ?
> >> You ? Mancuso, Bornfeld, Fawks, carabelli, JME, etc...?
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> removed for free. Had other patients from the same surgeon
> who were called in about the recall and refused the removal surgery.

It was good of some surgeons to do the surgery without expense to the
patient.  Of course, the hospital expenses were still the patient's
responsibility.

The FDA determined Proplast used in the TMJ implants to be 100%
defective.  That didn't mean that 100% of the patients would experience
failure at the same rate.  The FDA did believe that all patients would
eventually suffer failure of the implants because of the defective
nature of the product.  All things mechanical have a life span but this
product was *bad*.  Anyway, if patients weren't having problems, they
were to be watched closely and surgical removal was indicated when
problems developed because the potential damage was very serious.

> Not all Pro-Plast impants were failures.

Over time, it was anticipated that all the implants would fail because
the material was defective.  

> >This is a really important thing to understand.  There are no guarantees
> >in medicine.  
>
> Right, do you sue the cardio-vascular surgeon if bypass fails ?
> Wait ! Yer ded, cannot sue, what then ?
> May sound cruel but them's the facts.

If it is a wrongful death, that is another matter.

> >But it sounds like W_B's policy is very reasonable and I'm
> >sure his patients appreciate it.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

TW
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 05:14 GMT
>> Wait ! Yer ded, cannot sue, what then ?
>> May sound cruel but them's the facts.
>
>If it is a wrongful death, that is another matter.

As someone recently so eloquently pointed out
that cases such as you mentioned above do not
help the dead. etc...

SB it was.

Let's not go down this road. Ok ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 05:18 GMT
> >> Wait ! Yer ded, cannot sue, what then ?
> >> May sound cruel but them's the facts.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

There is a time and a place for everything.  This place, this time?  No;
I'm with you.
TW
Vaughn - 04 Dec 2004 02:23 GMT
> >Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.
>
> Comes with a 10 year warrantee, how many dentists give that on their
> work? "I'll give you this new crown, and if you do a regular
> maintanence schedule, I'll replace or fix it if it fails within 10
> years."

    My father has one of those, along with the aforementioned 10-year warranty.
You have never seen such bad service.  It is like HMO for your car!  That said,
it is not really a terrible car, at least for his use.

Vaughn
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 03:15 GMT
> > >Yeah, but it still would be a Kia.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Vaughn

Good feedback considering the credibility of our source!!  
TW
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 18:59 GMT
>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>not a car and an SUV.

We have an SUV and a truck, and a sports car.

Don't ask Mancuso how many cars he has.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 19:03 GMT
> >Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
> >not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> W_B

He needs some kind of spread sheet just to keep track of them (all).
TW
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 21:59 GMT
>> >Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>> >not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>He needs some kind of spread sheet just to keep track of them (all).
>TW

Wouldn's surprise me a bit if he's already got a nice XL file
for maintenance etc...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 03 Dec 2004 22:30 GMT
>>> >Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>> >not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Wouldn's surprise me a bit if he's already got a nice XL file
>for maintenance etc...

I only have two on the driveway right now.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 22:55 GMT
>>Wouldn's surprise me a bit if he's already got a nice XL file
>>for maintenance etc...
>
>I only have two on the driveway right now.
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Is that how you tell that it is winter ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 03 Dec 2004 23:56 GMT
>>>Wouldn's surprise me a bit if he's already got a nice XL file
>>>for maintenance etc...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Is that how you tell that it is winter ?

You guessed it. All 3 Triumphs are in storage. Dropped off the LR for
service this morning. Still have 3 in garage and one in the garden
shed.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 02:59 GMT
>>Is that how you tell that it is winter ?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
>Troy, Michigan, USA

You need a barn in a warmer climate.

<hint, hint>

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 17:39 GMT
>>>Is that how you tell that it is winter ?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
><hint, hint>

Too bad it does not stay nice in Michigan as long as it does in DC
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Dr. Steve - 03 Dec 2004 22:29 GMT
>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>not a car and an SUV.
>
>We have an SUV and a truck, and a sports car.
>
>Don't ask Mancuso how many cars he has.

Hey! be fair!
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 22:55 GMT
>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Hey ! I was !
Love your eclectic collection.

It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.

He probably needs a girlfriend or boyfriend depending
on his leanings.... <hehe>

I just hope that Adeno doesn't seek out a 'relationship'
online. Those can be disasterous.

Oy Vey !

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 23:01 GMT
>>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.

I don't think I'll ever own more than two cars as I don't really enjoy
driving.

>He probably needs a girlfriend or boyfriend depending
>on his leanings.... <hehe>

Yeah, we'll find out when I get around to that whole 'human
interactian' thing I keep hearing about.

>I just hope that Adeno doesn't seek out a 'relationship'
>online. Those can be disasterous.

My former coworker met his wife online. They seemed happy together,
altho I think the relationship was more codependant than loving. I
also had a friend move to Cali to marry a person who he met online,
but it didn't work out.

I think it would work out quite nicely for me, as long as the
relationship was kept online.


>Oy Vey !

Pretty fly for a white guy?

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 23:18 GMT
> >Oy Vey !
>
> Pretty fly for a white guy?

???????
TW
Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 23:20 GMT
>> >Oy Vey !
>>
>> Pretty fly for a white guy?
>
>???????
>TW

Don't listen to Weird Al much, do we?

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 03 Dec 2004 23:26 GMT
> >> >Oy Vey !
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

Ah.  
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Weird-Al-Yankovic/Pretty-Fly-for-a-Rabbi
.html

> Pretty Fly for a Rabbi Lyrics (Weird Al Yankovic)
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 00:30 GMT
Used to. Less time for frivolous persuits these days.

>>> Pretty fly for a white guy?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>--
>Adenosine

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 00:09 GMT
>>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
>>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.
>
>I don't think I'll ever own more than two cars as I don't really enjoy
>driving.

Then you need to make enough money to own a Maybach and
pay the chauffer's salary.

Drove a truck for a living once, hated it.

Only drive now when mandatory.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Adenosine - 04 Dec 2004 00:11 GMT
>>>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
>>>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Then you need to make enough money to own a Maybach and
>pay the chauffer's salary.

More like need to get the mass transit system into a state that it can
be used. Luckily after they wasted all the money we gave them they had
to beg and make changes until we finally funded them a little bit.

>Drove a truck for a living once, hated it.
>
>Only drive now when mandatory.
--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 00:38 GMT
> >>>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
> >>>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

No matter how good mass transit is, it does not work for the entire work
force.  It does not work for every large community (a lot of land and
not too many people or a large city with many areas that are far from
the train, bus, subway -- where you still need a way to get to the
central loading area.

TW
Adenosine - 04 Dec 2004 00:43 GMT
>No matter how good mass transit is, it does not work for the entire work
>force.  It does not work for every large community (a lot of land and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>TW

True, but I generally don't stray very far beyond the very urban. If
the system was only slightly better (more frequent, extended hours) I
wouldn't drive very much at all.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 01:12 GMT
> >No matter how good mass transit is, it does not work for the entire work
> >force.  It does not work for every large community (a lot of land and
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

My son-in-law has ideas very similar to yours.  But keep up your driving
skills, especially urban driving skills or you may find that fear of
driving takes over before you realize what happened.
TW
StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 07:07 GMT
> >No matter how good mass transit is, it does not work for the entire work
> >force.  It does not work for every large community (a lot of land and
> >not too many people or a large city with many areas that are far from
> >the train, bus, subway -- where you still need a way to get to the
> >central loading area.

Need the Smart car.... little car with 2 places... turns on a dime...
ideal for the city... unless you get hit by W_B or TW in their SUV's
SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 17:38 GMT
>> >No matter how good mass transit is, it does not work for the entire work
>> >force.  It does not work for every large community (a lot of land and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>ideal for the city... unless you get hit by W_B or TW in their SUV's
>SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPP

Smart Car is bigger than my Isetta
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 04 Dec 2004 18:05 GMT
| Smart Car is bigger than my Isetta
| ..
| Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

SWMBO in this household has their eye on the Smart ForFour. Got a year or two to
start saving before it will be available here. Some of us already know the
pressure tactics that come when SWMBO must just have something in particular.
She knows each and every one of my stall tactics, after my trying 19 years
avoiding the "ring" and a certain event that rhymes with it.

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 21:31 GMT
> | Smart Car is bigger than my Isetta
> | ..
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> trying 19 years avoiding the "ring" and a certain event that rhymes with
> it.

Go for it, Roy...
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 18:42 GMT
> >Need the Smart car.... little car with 2 places... turns on a dime...
> >ideal for the city... unless you get hit by W_B or TW in their SUV's
> >SSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPP
>
> Smart Car is bigger than my Isetta

Really? Jeezzz that must be small. I'll google to see what that looks
like.
Thanks
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT
>>Then you need to make enough money to own a Maybach and
>>pay the chauffer's salary.
>
>More like need to get the mass transit system into a state that it can
>be used. Luckily after they wasted all the money we gave them they had
>to beg and make changes until we finally funded them a little bit.

You are kidding right ?

One only rides 'public transportation' long enough
to afford 'private transportation'.

Yes that includes bicycles.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Adenosine - 04 Dec 2004 03:10 GMT
>>>Then you need to make enough money to own a Maybach and
>>>pay the chauffer's salary.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Yes that includes bicycles.

You can't read news on your cell phone while using a bicycle, nor
sleep.

The point being, that 12 minutes it takes me to go to work could be
used for something else instead of taking up 100% of my efforts.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 03:40 GMT
> >>>Then you need to make enough money to own a Maybach and
> >>>pay the chauffer's salary.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

How do you explain all the time you "found" in order to follow smd?

TW
Adenosine - 04 Dec 2004 03:42 GMT
>How do you explain all the time you "found" in order to follow smd?
>
>TW

Compiling programs takes a long time. Automated file processing takes
a long time. Running testing scripts takes a long time.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 04:08 GMT
>>How do you explain all the time you "found" in order to follow smd?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>--
>Adenosine

So does compiling yer own kernel.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 04:10 GMT
> >How do you explain all the time you "found" in order to follow smd?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Adenosine
> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?

You mean that you follow smd while those other things are taking their
own sweet time going through the process? If so, I see.

TW
StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 07:49 GMT
> > >How do you explain all the time you "found" in order to follow smd?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> TW

Hey Ad.... if what you're saying is accurate, FWIW, I think you're
working way, Way, WAY below your potential, man. You should be designing
searchable Management Information Systems or whatnot.... Or go back and
get a DDS/DMD and design the next CEREC machine.
Power to ya, bro
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 04 Dec 2004 04:01 GMT
>>>More like need to get the mass transit system into a state that it can
>>>be used. Luckily after they wasted all the money we gave them they had
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>You can't read news on your cell phone while using a bicycle, nor
>sleep.

Sorry mate, don't do any of those things.

>The point being, that 12 minutes it takes me to go to work could be
>used for something else instead of taking up 100% of my efforts.

Takes me 5 min to get to the office, 7 min if I hit the light.

>--
>Adenosine

What was that you were saying about extra time ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 04 Dec 2004 03:54 GMT
| >>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
| >>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
| wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
| Take out the G'RBAGE

Naw, I can see Steve in one of these.........

http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/severe/cxt.asp

Lots of room in the box for toys and Isetta's
Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 17:48 GMT
>| >>It's just that at 21y.o. Adeno hasn't had time
>| >>to accumulate cars that are not 'daily drivers'.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Lots of room in the box for toys and Isetta's

Do you think my family would prefer this to the LR?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 04 Dec 2004 18:10 GMT
"Roy Brown" wrote:

| >Naw, I can see Steve in one of these.........
| >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| ..
| Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Not sure, It has lots of room, leather interior, and is made in the good old US
of A. Then again, your family does have an affinity for foreign vehicles.
Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Dr. Steve - 03 Dec 2004 23:58 GMT
>>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>Oy Vey !

Are you saying that my SAAB is Not a chick-magnet ?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 00:26 GMT
> >>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
> >>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.

A Saab or a SAAB is always a chick magnet.  ... unless you're a chick
driving it ... and then it might still be one ... but ... ;-)

I miss my Saab .. but believe it or not ... the Volvo invites
"conversation" more than you'd think.  (What's with that???)
TW
Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 00:36 GMT
>> >>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>> >>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>"conversation" more than you'd think.  (What's with that???)
>TW

I look forward to taking you  for a ride in my vintage SAAB.   Roy,
Shirley, & W_B have all been in it.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 00:59 GMT
> >> >>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
> >> >>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.

Well then ... next in line gets in next?  Me! ME! MEEEE!!  
TW
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:33 GMT
>I look forward to taking you  for a ride in my vintage SAAB.   Roy,
>Shirley, & W_B have all been in it.
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

For the record I was never, ever, in the back seat.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:22 GMT
>> Are you saying that my SAAB is Not a chick-magnet ?
>> ..
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>"conversation" more than you'd think.  (What's with that???)
>TW

Maybe they think you mispronounced Vulva ?

OK that was crass, but it was such a great set up line.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 03:51 GMT
> >> Are you saying that my SAAB is Not a chick-magnet ?
> >> ..
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

Naughty, naughty... but you're right.  I guess that was my fault!  ;-)
TW
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:00 GMT
>Are you saying that my SAAB is Not a chick-magnet ?
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

In a word...

    Yes.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 04 Dec 2004 07:07 GMT
> Are you saying that my SAAB is Not a chick-magnet ?
> ..
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA

...Prob'ly is amongst the Scandinavian country folk.... perhaps not the
types y'all are draggin' for...
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Adenosine - 03 Dec 2004 22:57 GMT
>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>not a car and an SUV.
>
>We have an SUV and a truck, and a sports car.
>
>Don't ask Mancuso how many cars he has.

I can see the truck and car, but what do you need an SUV for?

I only know one person who owns an SUV that really needs it. And that
person just happens to live out in the woods, and it is nearly
impossible to get to her house in the winter without either tire
chains or an SUV with 4 wheel drive.

I guess it's the difference between a car as an experience and a car
as a means to get from point a to point b.

--
Adenosine
Semi-informed Dental Consumer ?
W_B - 03 Dec 2004 23:59 GMT
>I can see the truck and car, but what do you need an SUV for?

Grand-children, grasshopper.

>I only know one person who owns an SUV that really needs it. And that
>person just happens to live out in the woods, and it is nearly
>impossible to get to her house in the winter without either tire
>chains or an SUV with 4 wheel drive.

My truck is 4WD, the SUV isn't.
Safety not an issue where you live ?
Value your life ? I do.

>I guess it's the difference between a car as an experience and a car
>as a means to get from point a to point b.

Now you are starting to get it.
I want a single seat Grand Prix car.
Want, need, and desire are very different things.

>--
>Adenosine

BTW the sports car is for fun.
Do you ever have fun, just for the sake of it ?

Highly recommended.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 00:29 GMT
> >I can see the truck and car, but what do you need an SUV for?
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

My son lives in a major city.  He drives an Explorer (lots and lots of
miles on it) -- he drives it because he says it's a way to stay alive.  
He says, who cares if it gets scratched, dented, or "painted" ... just
don't get into a tin can if you want to stay alive.   And, he carts
stuff around too.

TW
Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 00:38 GMT
>> >I can see the truck and car, but what do you need an SUV for?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>TW

My personal view is that a highly maneuverable car is safer than a big
beast that can easily flip over.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
The Webby - 04 Dec 2004 01:09 GMT
> >> >I can see the truck and car, but what do you need an SUV for?
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.

Absolutely! And the driver has much to do with automatic tipping over
machines.  If you drive one, you should know that the little sign on the
visor isn't a joke.  I think I'm pretty safe in my Volvo, all things
considered.  No guarantees there either.
TW
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:26 GMT
>My son lives in a major city.  He drives an Explorer (lots and lots of
>miles on it) -- he drives it because he says it's a way to stay alive.  
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>TW

Gotta agree with that.

My little sister has the same philosophy.
Got it from bigbruhbruh, natch.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 00:08 GMT
>>>Why would you need two cars? I could see maybe a car and a truck, but
>>>not a car and an SUV.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>I guess it's the difference between a car as an experience and a car
>as a means to get from point a to point b.

I keep a LR for my SUV. I refuse to dive a minivan. I can carry  seven
people in the LR.  I can tow one of my toy cars to a different State
with the  LR.  I can go strip down a parts car 500 miles away, load it
in the LR and drive home in style.   The LR is 8 years old and has
70,000 miles on it. I prefer to  drive a 40 year old car every day.
The LR is a truck with style.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 04 Dec 2004 03:00 GMT
>The LR is a truck with style.
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

And all of this time I was thinking that you thought
my truck was style with a personality.

pshaw...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 04 Dec 2004 17:50 GMT
>>The LR is a truck with style.
>>..
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>pshaw...

If  I did not have to please Mrs. Steve with my "truck", I would drive
a copy of yours.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.