C-Reactive Proteins  


Hello Sue,

Okay I disagree with that. PURINA started putting the "BUILDS HEALTHY
IMMUNE SYSTEMS" on the side of their 50-POUND bag! That is what I cal
lthe "JAN DREW" effect! Its, "Oh I got my amalgams out and now I am oh
so healthy."

The marketing world wants us to believe that the human body operates
like an automobile. Sluggish? Dump in some STP. Poor mileage? Get a
tune-up.

I say that's nonsense. If there are immune responses (such as
diabetes, a current theory), then its due to reaction to things like
gluten at a very early age.

There is zero epidemiological proof that dirt, bacteria, or anything
like that cause various diseases. Oh if it were true! It would be a
simple task to simply scrub up the world and eliminate so much
disease!

Joel

Sue wrote below:

---> certainly increases artherosclerosis

As far as many disease staes, the jury is still out in my mind... the
body may be doing its job to combat stresses... but it is BEST not to
have these stresses in the first place, cuz you do PAY a PRICE.... we
know "bad crapola" is set-off every time your body is insulted.

....and I am not talking about building up immunity here (i.e. humoral
activation, B-lymphocytes & antibody formation) ... I am talking about
cellular immunity... with macrophages, monocytes going nuts releasing
all kinds of cytokines...

**************************************

FOUND AT,

http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/newr...oquote=1&p=2300

(sign up required, but its free)

And yeah Sue, I am spamming this out elsewhere.

Ok Now JoelY,

We may not be able to prove causality of Perio to heart disease just
yet.... but as far as elevated levels of CRPs and other inflammatory
markers:

Here is where I disagree with ya...

ok yes... CRPs are indicative of inflammation, one of the body's
natural defense mechansims... but this is not ALWAYS just a sign that
the natural defenses are working PROPERLY.

EX. Look at the autoimmune disorders...lupus, RA, scleroderma, etc
etc.

Also we know that chronic inflammation DOES promote deleterious
mechanisms ---> for example plaque build-up (as well as other pathways
related to the pathogenesis of HF)

...so in some cases, as YOUR body is fighting off bugs or even
experiencing other stresses (chronic sympathetic activation which is
now known to be linked to immune pathways), ... WORSE stuff may be
happening due to these several activated pathways .. .

Joel, why are steroids given to patients with scleroderma?.. so their
organs don't fibrose from an immune system gone wild....

OK... Back to "normal" body defesnses for a moment. Can this play a
causal role in some disease states (like typeII diabetes, metabolic
syndrome, heart failure ...to name a few)

---> certainly increases artherosclerosis

As far as many disease staes, the jury is still out in my mind... the
body may be doing its job to combat stresses... but it is BEST not to
have these stresses in the first place, cuz you do PAY a PRICE.... we
know "bad crapola" is set-off every time your body is insulted.

....and I am not talking about building up immunity here (i.e. humoral
activation, B-lymphocytes & antibody formation) ... I am talking about
cellular immunity... with macrophages, monocytes going nuts releasing
all kinds of cytokines...

-Sue

Am I scaring anybody? ... Please take me with a grain of salt... these
are opinions only.
Yesterday 05:42 PM
Joel344 EXCELLENT! Thanks. I do not believe cause will be established.
Look at our fingernails ,,,,,,, there are lots of places where
bacteria and especially viruses can seep in. All over the body in
fact.

C-Reactive Proteins are indicative that everything is working
normally.

Dental Hygienists have some idea that we are a pristine species. Thank
God we are not. Its part of our defenses.

Joel
Yesterday 05:22 PM
Sue Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel344
Conversing with Sue Madden ......

Hi Sue,

Yes thanks. This is certainly interesting!

C-Reactive Protein – A Predictor of Heart Disease – Is Elevated in
Patients with Periodontal Disease

In treatment of disease, we find many CORRELATIONS. However the key to
treatment is always to determine ETIOLOGY not connectedness or
correlations.

This will not stop the dental hygienists though. They will be telling
their patients that regular BFB ~ Biofilm Breakup ~ will prevent heart
attack. The dentists? They know better, but heck, the dentist is busy
in room two trying to finish up a root canal.

Besides, if some patients believe the little twit in room three, so
what? So what if they come back for their BFB treatments?

Jeez, how much is tuition to Chiropractic school? Its still not too
late for me!

This is nonsense of course.

Joel

JoelSter.

THIS POST (and more drivel) IS FOUND AT:

http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/newr...oquote=1&p=2136

.... and all are welcome to participate!

(NOT ADVERTISING, NOT A COMMERCIAL SITE, and there is no profit
motive, until I graduate Chiropractic School!)

Right you are JOelY--

Sorry no fight today. I look forward to more findings. This area of
research is of great interest to me.

-Sue

http://www.dimensionsofdentalhygien...ight.asp?id=212

Describe the link between heart disease and periodontal disease.

There is an inflammatory link but periodontal disease is an infectious
link. There are four infections that are related to heart disease:
chlamydial pneumonia, Helicobacter pylori gastric ulcer,
cytomegalovirus (CMV), and periodontal disease. Inflammation is the
mechanism by which these infections are related to heart disease.
There is a relationship between periodontal infection and heart
disease that may be explained by the CRP. CRP levels are elevated in
these other infections also. These infections create an inflammation
that causes the liver to produce a higher amount of CRPs.

There is an association between periodontal disease, specifically
periodontitis, and heart disease of the atherosclerosis type. This
association does not prove causality. Whether treating periodontal
disease in patients at risk for heart disease or those with heart
disease affects their heart disease at all has not yet been proven in
studies. We don’t know if flossing and good oral hygiene—basically the
prevention of periodontal disease—actually prevent heart disease. The
association between periodontal disease and heart disease is a good
reason to practice good oral hygiene and to prevent periodontal
disease. However, you cannot tell patients that scaling and root
planing and good oral hygiene will have any effect on heart disease at
all. But on the positive side, these good oral hygiene practices will
save their teeth!
Yesterday 08:49 AM
Joel344 INDUSTRY WRAPUPS
From the November 26, 2004 print edition
Life Sciences
Dynamis Therapeutics signs pact, gets grant
John George
Staff Writer
Dynamis Therapeutics Inc. has taken two steps to bolster its efforts
to help patients with diabetes, a disease that afflicts more than 120
million people worldwide and 16 million people in the United States.

Last week, the 7-year-old Elkins Park company signed a research
contract with San Diego-based Cengent Therapeutics.

In addition, Dynamis was recently awarded a $1.1 million phase-II
Small Business Innovation Research grant from the National Institutes
of Health to support the company's drug development efforts.

Under the terms of the deal, Cengent will use its proprietary
technology to identify candidates for Dynamis to develop as potential
new drugs to treat diabetic-related kidney and heart disease,
blindness and neuropathy.

Dynamis' proprietary drug target is an enzyme that causes the
formation of 3-deoxyglucosone, a toxic compound linked to the onset
and progression of diabetic complications.

Financial terms of the agreement, which includes unspecified upfront
and milestone payments, were not disclosed.

"I am confident that this project will result in a drug that prevents
diabetic complications -- retinopathy, nephropathy and neuropathy,"
said Dr. Annette Tobia, the company's CEO. "We are confident that, in
the near future, Dynamis Therapeutics will prove that inhibition of
our proprietary target is significant in preventing disease and
improving the quality of life and longevity. After reviewing a number
of alternatives, we decided that Cengent could provide us a pathway to
a lead compound in the shortest time and at the least cost."

Heading to Japan
Morphotek Inc. of Exton has formed a new business partnership under
which Tokyo-based SC Biosciences will serve as the Japanese marketing
partner for Morphotek's cell line evolution services.

Founded in 2000, Morphotek has developed a series of platform
technologies designed to improve the manufacturing process of
bioengineered therapeutic proteins.

Nicholas C. Nicolaides, the company's president and CEO, said the
partnership will enable Japanese pharmaceutical companies to apply
Morphotek's technology to develop therapeutic antibodies and proteins
as new drug candidates for the treatment of a wide range of human
diseases.

» Continued
Page: 1 | 2

INDUSTRY WRAPUPS

« Continued from previous page
Next generation
CollaGenex Pharmaceuticals Inc. of Newtown, Pa., completed its
screening and enrolling of 240 patients for its multi-center,
phase-III clinical study to evaluate the effectiveness of the next
generation of Periostat, its flagship adult gum disease treatment
product.

The company expects to complete the study of Periostat MR in the third
quarter of 2005.

Among the physicians involved in the study is Dr. Alan Polson,
professor and chairman of periodontics at the University of
Pennsylvania School of Dental Medicine.

Periostat MR is a new, once-daily, modified release formulation of
Periostat. Since Periostat was approved by the Food and Drug
Administration in 1998, nearly 4 million prescriptions have been
filled -- making it the largest prescription pharmaceutical branded
product ever approved and launched for a dental disease.

CollaGenex is already involved in patent battles with generic drug
manufactures over Periostat.

Colin W. Stewart, president and CEO of CollaGenex, said Periostat MR
"represents an important part of our late-stage portfolio of products
for both the dental and dermatology markets."

Lab notes
Nucleonics Inc. of Horsham obtained a nonexclusive license to a
nontranslated region of the Hepatitis C viral genome, which the
company is using as a target for its experimental Hepatitis C
treatment, from St. Louis-based Apath LLC. Financial details of the
license agreement were not disclosed. Robert J. Towarnicki, president
and CEO of Nucleonics, said the license strengthens the company's
intellectual property portfolio supporting its product development
efforts ... Doylestown-based Discovery Laboratories Inc. was added to
the Nasdaq Biotechnology Index effective Nov. 22.

JOHN GEORGE can be reached at jgeorge@bizjournals.com or 215-238-5137
Yesterday 08:09 AM
Joel344 Interesting .. thanks.

I will go look but will not reply there as the hygienists need their
own space.

Joel
11-30-2004 09:55 PM
Sue Just pasting this here in case it gets deleted on Hygiene Town.
Joel if you want to make some ruckus, I dare you to go up against the
HT hygienists on this subject!!!! (kidding)

Sue
----------------
On 11/30/2004 3:00:39 PM Claire wrote:

There is a GREAT article about the relationship between inflammation,
CRPs, and oral health in the May 2004 issue of Dimensions of Dental
Hygiene. I think you can read it in the archives on their website:
www.dimensionsofdentalhygiene.com. Fascinating stuff! ----------------

REPLY: Thank you for the link Claire. I am fascinated with this
subject as well. The medical and dental fields overlap in many ways.
There is much we can learn from one another!!!!

I have been with Medtronic for 18 years, the last 6 have been involved
in heart failure research. I am very interested in the mechanisms
underlying ischemic heart disease, as this consitutes the major
underlying etoliogy for most congestive heart failure occuring in the
U.S.

Besides its involvement in artheroisclerosis, we have known for some
years that chronic activation of the inflammatory response is invloved
in the pathogenisis of heart failure. Namely: remodelling of heart
tissue, apoptosis (programmed cell death), cachexia (wasting muscle
mass and heart tissue) and ultimately a worse prognosis.

We have looked at drugs to target some of the proinflammatory
cytokines, but these have shown little success in heart failure
patients. These drugs have benefited other disease states however,
namely those of autoimmune origin such as rheumatoid arthritis (RA).

Example. Maybe you know the drug: Enbrel. This is a tnf-alpha
inhibitor which has been shown to reduce inflammation and symptoms
associated with RA. However drug trials using TNF-alpha inhibitors in
heart failure patients were stopped early because patients using these
drugs actually showed increased mortality.... Much countered to the
hopes expected.... (if anybody is curious, reference: Douglas Mann &
tumor necrosis factor in a literature search)

There is so much to learn and to explore when it comes to the human
body and health. I am very curious to learn more about perio and CAD
links. Healthy teeth are so important to overall general health. NEVER
forget that and never minimize the importance of what you do. (I am
only saying this because sometimes I hear dentists say ..."ahhh... but
teeth are not that important... they are not necessary for life."
Baloney with that attitude is what I think!

Anyway, personal rant aside, I have some information that you all
might be interested in.... This is just a simple poll ... regarding
dental practicianers who through their examinations have referred
patients to MDs .... This demonstrates how both professions work
together. It is cool.

Later,
Sue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Susan Madden Vadnais
Medtronic,Inc

Minnesota Dental Association Volunteer
Give Kids a Smile (GKAS) 2004, 2005
11-30-2004 11:14 AM
Joel344 GOOD EXPLANATION EXISTS......

I made this one reply but "TAILORED IT" for multiple groups!

So I just hadda lie a bit!

We'll see .... I hope to get some people over here .....

Joel
11-30-2004 10:40 AM
Sue Yes, JOelSter, er um RETIRED dentist with aspirations to become a
quiro-practer, and quite possibly the most obnoxious poster on dental
topics that exists on the monitors of the internet,

BTW, are you a MD? If not, you might want to ask your buddy Marshall
about this one.... HE might be current on the mechanisms that we know
are involved in the etiology of ischemic heart disease....

-Sue
PS I think you will make a fine quiro-practer! You just follow your
dreams young man and some day you may amount to something.

PSS I am working right now, UNLIKE you, you twit. I cannot put a lot
of effort into this debate until AFTER hours.. closing time...get it?
----> ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel344
Conversing with Sue Madden ......

Hi Sue,

Yes thanks. This is certainly interesting!

C-Reactive Protein – A Predictor of Heart Disease – Is Elevated in
Patients with Periodontal Disease

In treatment of disease, we find many CORRELATIONS. However the key to
treatment is always to determine ETIOLOGY not connectedness or
correlations.

This will not stop the dental hygienists though. They will be telling
their patients that regular BFB ~ Biofilm Breakup ~ will prevent heart
attack. The dentists? They know better, but heck, the dentist is busy
in room two trying to finish up a root canal.

Besides, if some patients believe the little twit in room three, so
what? So what if they come back for their BFB treatments?

Jeez, how much is tuition to Chiropractic school? Its still not too
late for me!

This is nonsense of course.

Joel

JoelSter.

THIS POST (and more drivel) IS FOUND AT:

http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/newr...oquote=1&p=2136

.... and all are welcome to participate!

(NOT ADVERTISING, NOT A COMMERCIAL SITE, and there is no profit
motive, until I graduate Chiropractic School!)

11-30-2004 07:31 AM
Joel344 Conversing with Sue Madden ......

Hi Sue,

Yes thanks. This is certainly interesting!

C-Reactive Protein – A Predictor of Heart Disease – Is Elevated in
Patients with Periodontal Disease

In treatment of disease, we find many CORRELATIONS. However the key to
treatment is always to determine ETIOLOGY not connectedness or
correlations.

This will not stop the dental hygienists though. They will be telling
their patients that regular BFB ~ Biofilm Breakup ~ will prevent heart
attack. The dentists? They know better, but heck, the dentist is busy
in room two trying to finish up a root canal.

Besides, if some patients believe the little twit in room three, so
what? So what if they come back for their BFB treatments?

Jeez, how much is tuition to Chiropractic school? Its still not too
late for me!

This is nonsense of course.

Joel

JoelSter.

THIS POST (and more drivel) IS FOUND AT:

http://www.dentalcom.net/forum/newr...oquote=1&p=2136

.... and all are welcome to participate!

(NOT ADVERTISING, NOT A COMMERCIAL SITE, and there is no profit
motive, until I graduate Chiropractic School!)
11-29-2004 06:36 PM
Sue Joel, I thought I read something about this in Cosmopolitan. -Sue

C-Reactive Protein – A Predictor of Heart Disease – Is Elevated in
Patients with Periodontal Disease

CHICAGO – September 20, 2001 – Elevated levels of C-reactive protein
(CRP) explain one reason why periodontal disease could be a risk
factor for cardiovascular disease, according to a new study in the
Journal of Periodontology.

Periodontal disease may cause oral bacteria to enter the bloodstream
and trigger the liver to make proteins such as CRP that inflame
arteries and clot blood, which can lead to heart attacks. CRP levels
identify those patients whose inflammations systems respond most
actively to stimuli.

"Until intervention studies are completed, we will not know with
certainty whether periodontal disease really can cause heart disease.
In the meantime, this study provides one more explanation for why it
is very plausible that an infection in the mouth could lead to
problems with the heart," said Ernesto De Nardin, Ph.D., one of the
study's researchers.

The study carried out at the University at Buffalo, compared CRP
levels in 59 people with moderate and 50 people with advanced
periodontal disease to 65 periodontally healthy patients. Adjustments
were made for other factors that are known to be associated with
elevated levels of CRP such as age, body mass index, smoking and blood
lipids. Researchers found that 25 percent of the 174 total subjects
had CRP concentrations that have been associated with a higher risk of
cardiovascular problems. However, among the 50 people with advanced
periodontal disease, the percentage increased to 38. Furthermore, they
found that those patients infected with bacteria that cause
periodontal disease had the highest levels of C-reactive protein.

"As researchers continue to sort out the link between periodontal
disease and heart disease, my advice to my patients remains the same,"
said Michael McGuire, D.D.S., president of the American Academy of
Periodontology (AAP). "Do not take your gum health for granted or you
may have more to lose than just your teeth."

A referral to a periodontist in your area and free brochure samples
including one titled Ask Your Periodontist About Periodontal Disease
and Heart Disease are available by calling 800-FLOSS-EM or visiting
the AAP's Web site at www.perio.org.

The American Academy of Periodontology is a 7,900-member association
of dental professionals specializing in the prevention, diagnosis and
treatment of diseases affecting the gums and supporting structures of
the teeth and in the placement and maintenance of dental implants.
Periodontics is one of nine dental specialties recognized by the
American Dental Association. EDITOR'S NOTE: For a copy of the study,
Periodontal Infections Contribute to Elevated Systemic C-Reactive
Protein Level, contact the AAP Public Affairs Department at
312/573-3243 or 312/573-3242.
11-29-2004 06:32 PM
Sue link www.perio.org

Periodontal Disease, C-Reactive Protein and Overall Health

Researchers have known for quite some time that elevated C-reactive
protein (CRP) levels increase the risk for cardiovascular disease. A
recent study published in The New England Journal of Medicine
identified elevated CRP levels as a stronger predictor of heart
attacks than elevated cholesterol levels, and recommended CRP and
cholesterol screening for accurate risk assessment of cardiovascular
disease.

However, many clinicians were unclear of the cause of elevated CRP
levels. A study published earlier this year in the Journal of
Periodontology reported that inflammatory effects from periodontal
disease, a chronic bacterial infection of the gums, cause oral
bacterial byproducts to enter the bloodstream and trigger the liver to
make proteins such as CRP that inflame arteries and promote blood clot
formation.

"Periodontal disease needs to be considered as a major contributor to
increased levels of CRP by the medical community," said Dr. Steven
Offenbacher, member of the American Academy of Periodontology.

Previous studies reported that inflammatory effects from periodontal
disease could cause oral bacterial byproducts to enter the bloodstream
and trigger the liver to make proteins such as CRP that inflame
arteries. In addition, these effects may cause blood clots that
contribute to clogged arteries leading to heart attacks or strokes.

"What makes the recent findings noteworthy is that oral examinations
were conducted on more than 5,000 adults in four U.S. communities
already participating in a study to determine the risk of
atherosclerosis," said Offenbacher. "This is most likely the largest
study confirming that periodontal disease and body mass index are
jointly associated with increased levels of CRP in healthy adults."

He added, "To reduce levels of CRP, and presumably the risk of
cardiovascular disease, not only would it be important to lose weight
if you are overweight, but it would also be important to get your gums
treated."

CRP testing is now available in many hospitals and health centers. The
American Heart Association and the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention are developing a summary on whether CRP levels should be
routinely tested to diagnose heart disease or to monitor progress of
treatments.

"Based on this information and the potential to prevent heart attacks
and strokes, I foresee patients receiving routine CRP testing in their
dentist or periodontist office in the near future," said Dr. Gordon
Douglass, president of the American Academy of Periodontology. "This
could help early diagnosis of potential heart disease sooner rather
than later, as most people see their dentist or periodontist at
minimum two times a year." Find Out More

AAP Statements and Press Releases

Deep Periodontal Pockets Increase Risk for Electrocardiographic
Abnormalities
Why Periodontal Disease May Pose a Risk to Your Health (Video News
Release 7/9/98)
New Study Confirms Periodontal Disease Linked to Heart Disease
(2/7/02)
C-Reactive Protein – A Predictor of Heart Disease – Is Elevated in
Patients with Periodontal Disease (9/20/01)
The Mouth Is the Mirror to Overall Health (8/15/00)

Consumer Information
The Mouth-Body Connection
Periodontal Disease, Heart Disease and Stroke
Do You Have Periodontal Disease? Take the Test
Locate a periodontist near you for an evaluation
View free brochure samples on oral health topics

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