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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2004Never-Ending Obsession
Hello Everyone. I've been looking through the posts for about a week now, and I see a very consistent pattern, an obsession of animosity between Jan and her group and the dentists, headed my Dr. Steve. I was just curious, do you all know each other in real life? It seems like you guys have a history. Did one of the dentists used to be Jan's dentist? Why such an animosity? It seems like 50% of the posts, but probably more are this constant duel between the dentist and the non-dentists. Is amalgam the main crux of the war here? What's the dealio? Also, I have some dental questions (as usual)... 1) Jan thinks my filling could be leaking more mercury because it is broken, would you concur with that, or would you say that it takes intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? I'm getting it removed tomorrow. 2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more refined sugar? 3) I've had MANY cavities in my lifetime, too many to count, and I'm only 24! How would you rate the importance of the following in keeping teeth healthy: a) brushing and flossing twice a day b) getting enough calcium Thanks so very much for the dental counseling. Lord knows I need it! I'm tired of these "caries" ruining my life. -Luiza mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 >Hello Everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >What's the dealio? Jan is a troll. Nobody agrees with her, besides her aliases. Non-dentists who are for amalgam (me) and non-dentists who are against amaglam (John Chewter) are unified in being against Jan. She serves only to lower the signal to noise ratio of this newsgroup. >Also, I have some dental questions (as usual)... > >1) Jan thinks my filling could be leaking more mercury because it is >broken, would you concur with that, or would you say that it takes >intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? I'm >getting it removed tomorrow. Your dentist will take the necessary precautions. As Jan likes to point out, there are a lot of rules about what you can do with amalgam after you take it out of the mouth. Your dentist will probably use high speed suction to remove the vaporized mercury before you can inhale it. >2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, >ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more >refined sugar? AFIAK, there have been human fossils found with teeth that were free of dental caries, before anything was known about oral hygiene. Many of them DID have periodontal disease however. It seems dental caries only thrives on the refined diet most of us eat. >3) I've had MANY cavities in my lifetime, too many to count, and I'm >only 24! I feel for you there. I am only 21 and several of my teeth already have needed crowns. There are only 5 unrestored teeth in my mouth, canine to canine on the lower. >How would you rate the importance of the following in keeping >teeth healthy: > > a) brushing and flossing twice a day > > b) getting enough calcium Your teeth are already formed! I don't think calcium will help nearly as much as removing the bacteria by brushing and flossing. Calcium will not protect you from periodontal disease, which is the #1 reason why people lose teeth. >Thanks so very much for the dental counseling. Lord knows I need it! >I'm tired of these "caries" ruining my life. Pick up OCD with emphasis on oral hygiene! >-Luiza >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? QUESTION: How did you find this newsgroup? Google? Another group? What? THANKS. Joel >>Hello Everyone. >> [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >>-Luiza >>mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 >QUESTION: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Joel Huh? Me? -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>QUESTION: >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >Huh? Me? Anyone ....... a little marketing research going on here ...... >>>QUESTION: >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Anyone ....... a little marketing research going on here ...... WHOOSH <-- the sound of the previous post going over my head. Actually, I hang out in chat rooms and one of the first questions I always ask new comers is how they found the room, and why they are there. It's nice to know WHY people come because you can improve the channel... and kick out retards. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >Hello Everyone. > >I've been looking through the posts for about a week now, and I see a >very consistent pattern, an obsession of animosity between Jan and her >group and the dentists, headed my Dr. Steve. Do not get possessive now, he is OUR Dr. Steve ...... >I was just curious, do >you all know each other in real life? It seems like you guys have a >history. We used to all live in the same town but the sheriff made us all leave for parts unknown. Some went west, some went east ...... > Did one of the dentists used to be Jan's dentist? Why such an >animosity? It seems like 50% of the posts, but probably more are this >constant duel between the dentist and the non-dentists. Is amalgam the >main crux of the war here? YUP, pretty funny too as amalgam is rarely used anymore! This will not stop the JanSter though. She was the model for Seinfeld's ANTI-DENTITE personna. She hates dentists. Joel >What's the dealio? > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >-Luiza >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 >>I was just curious, do >>you all know each other in real life? It seems like you guys have a >>history. > > We used to all live in the same town but the sheriff made us all leave > for parts unknown. Some went west, some went east ...... I have had the pleasure of sharing company (in person) with at least 4 of the regulars who are here now, and a bunch of those who no longer visit here. All wonderful people. (despite the fact that Jan will probably now tell me how awful W_B is. BTW, if you ever needed someone to rely on in your hour of need, W_B would be there before the other people could figure out if you needed help or not, don't be fooled by his tough guy image). >>>I was just curious, do >>>you all know each other in real life? It seems like you guys have a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >your hour of need, W_B would be there before the other people could figure >out if you needed help or not, don't be fooled by his tough guy image). Blush. Check is in the mail. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com [clip] > >BTW, if you ever needed someone to rely on in > >your hour of need, W_B would be there before the other people could figure [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Check is in the mail. > -- You still owe me something via email ... ;-) (no money required) TW >[clip] >> >BTW, if you ever needed someone to rely on in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >TW More pictures of Ty ? -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE > >[clip] > >> >BTW, if you ever needed someone to rely on in [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > Take out the G'RBAGE Close but no cigar.... TW >>[clip] >>> >BTW, if you ever needed someone to rely on in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >More pictures of Ty ? Did you send the photos I took of Ty? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. >Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>here. All wonderful people. (despite the fact that Jan will probably now >>tell me how awful W_B is I don't have to tell anyone, if they read his post. He speaks of Salt Lake City Lanfill, stated it's a damn shame I didn't die, calls people mf Tells lies and insults constantly. Jan >I don't have to tell anyone, if they read his post. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: We know that Jan .... >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-06-19 14:14:00 PST >Not surprising Joel. You non compassionate little jerk. >Drop Dead. >Jan >>>I wish for you a good dose of mercury poisoning, peripheral neuropathy and >>>migraine headaches. >>"Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> >>Jan >He speaks of Salt Lake City Lanfill, stated it's a damn shame I didn't die, >calls people >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: Attention anti-vaccination liars >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-28 12:14:24 PST >Mark................. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: We know that Jan .... >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-06-19 14:14:00 PST >Not surprising Joel. You non compassionate little jerk. >Drop Dead. >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: I want to SELL my A+ KIDNEY. This is legal in my country!! 2441 >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-12 18:49:46 PST >Andrew.................................... > >Drop dead. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: OT Re: Mercury/Dentists todays WSJ >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-05-11 23:26:44 PST >DROP DEAD!! > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: The Man Who Loves To Bust Quacks >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-03 09:31:26 PST >In two words new debunker, who doesn't want to comment............. > >Drop Dead. > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: JanDrew: Still an enigma. >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-04-08 19:36:47 PST >No you don't need to go again, you can always drop dead if you prefer >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: Soil Theory? >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-03-19 17:57:17 PST >You are as low as Rich. > >Drop Dead. > >Jan >Your words come back to bite you. > >Jan Hi Guys & Guyesses,] Now here is an interesting piece of research that might explain something about Drew regarding 'anxiety, depression, paranoia, hostility, and obsessive compulsive behaviour' This is copied from http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html This is regarding a study of amalgam removal amongst mentally ill subjects. The Study group is very small so may not be significant. However: Does this remind you of anybody we know? "It was very clear that the patients who had had their amalgam fillings removed had improved very significantly in such important parameters as anxiety, depression, paranoia, hostility, and obsessive compulsive behaviour." Siblerud, Robert L., et al. Psychometric evidence that dental amalgam mercury may be an etiological factor in manic depression. Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 13, No. 1, First Quarter 1998, pp. 31- 40 OK So why is Jan showing these symptoms after removal of half the Amalgam? Maybe its genetic? FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely that you will. >FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely >that you will. That doesn't make any sense to me. If your parents were unable to have children, that means you are adopted, and their genetic defects cannot be passed on to you. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? Do you file your socks by day of the week? :) >>FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely >>that you will. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Adenosine > Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely >>that you will. > >That doesn't make any sense to me. If your parents were unable to have >children, that means you are adopted, and their genetic defects cannot >be passed on to you. Yes, that's a real head scratcher, isn't it? Lamarckianism I guess. He meant biological parents.  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Adenosine > Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? He knows ;) > He meant biological parents. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Adenosine >> Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >>FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely >>that you will. > >That doesn't make any sense to me. If your parents were unable to have >children, that means you are adopted, and their genetic defects cannot >be passed on to you. A Riddle inside a Mystery wrapped in an Enigma surrounded by a Conundrum. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Yeah - its just not safe these days without a Conundrum. >>>FACT: If your parents were unable to have children - it is quite unlikely >>>that you will. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Multiple layers of protection, eh ? >Yeah - its just not safe these days without a Conundrum. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> Take out the G'RBAGE >> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com -- W_B wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE >Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Now here is an interesting piece of research that might explain something >about Drew Never-Ending Obsession >"It was very clear that the patients who had had their amalgam fillings >removed had improved very significantly in such important parameters as >anxiety, depression, paranoia, hostility, and obsessive compulsive >behaviour." >Psychometric evidence that dental amalgam >mercury may be an etiological factor in manic depression. Journal of >Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 13, No. 1, First Quarter 1998, pp. 31- 40 Glad you are noticing the improvements. Good reason to ban them completely. Now, perhaps you can find some kind of improvements that help people such as yourself to be truthful, and then when they are caught in their own lies, they hold resentments and try to trash the one telling the truth. You see, John, the more you post the bigger you make a fool of yourself. >>Subject: Re: Allowable level of mercury ingestion ? >>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk >>Date: 11/23/2004 11:22 PM Pacific Standard Time >>Message-id: <co1cs5$hrk$1@hercules.btinternet.com> I was NOT replying to your post (you are NOT that important). - I know that >for sure because I wrote it. > >>I was merely correcting Mr Zimmerman's observation as we would not like any >>misconceptions. From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk >Date: 11/14/2004 4:20 PM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <cn8spa$iit$1@hercules.btinternet.com> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >>I hope that is clear. >>John C Jan - have you forgotten that I am Anti-Amalgam? I think so. She never cares that I haven't used amalgam since 1985, so why should you get preferential treatment? ;-) Fawks > J** - have you forgotten that I am Anti-Amalgam? > > I think so. Even if you did not use amalgam since 1942, you DO NOT GET a pass if you are a dentist. >She never cares that I haven't used amalgam since 1985, so why should >you get preferential treatment? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> I think so. >Even if you did not use amalgam since 1942, you DO NOT GET a pass if >you are a dentist. Only cast gold and gold foils since 1942? That's one way to increase production. -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? Imp not one and still don't get one :( > Even if you did not use amalgam since 1942, you DO NOT GET a pass if > you are a dentist. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>> >>> I think so. >"It was very clear that the patients who had had their amalgam fillings >removed had improved very significantly in such important parameters as >anxiety, depression, paranoia, hostility, and obsessive compulsive >behaviour." There are specific references to Break Dancing improvements ..... Quote from that paragraph: "There is some evidence that people with dental amalgam fillings are more likely to suffer from depression than are people without such fillings." ................. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, This reminds me of the TMD argument that TMD is the result of depression. What comes first the pain or the depression? It seems to me that chronic pain would lead to a depressed patient. Taking that premise to the amalgam discussion.......... recognize that depressed people spend less effort with OH and eat more cariogenic foods and beverages which lead to more fillings being done. What came first the chicken or the egg? Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Hi Guys & Guyesses,] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > mercury may be an etiological factor in manic depression. Journal of > Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 13, No. 1, First Quarter 1998, pp. 31- 40 >What came first the chicken or the egg? The chicken. Genisis 2.19 -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >Hi Guys & Guyesses,] > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >mercury may be an etiological factor in manic depression. Journal of >Orthomolecular Medicine, Vol. 13, No. 1, First Quarter 1998, pp. 31- 40 I would argue that j@|\| has exhibited no such improvements. Key words: >amalgam removal amongst mentally ill subjects. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > >>I was just curious, do > >>you all know each other in real life? It seems like you guys have a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > All wonderful people. (despite the fact that Jan will probably now > tell me how awful W_B is. ....... W_B is awful!!!!!! SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >Hello Everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? I'm >getting it removed tomorrow. Broken or not, some mercury comes out. In tiny does, mercury is not harmful. Thank God for that. A forest fire repleases 6,000 tons of mercury into the atmosphere in a single weekend! >2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, >ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more >refined sugar? Nope. Anthropology demonstrates decay is with us. >3) I've had MANY cavities in my lifetime, too many to count, and I'm >only 24! How would you rate the importance of the following in keeping >teeth healthy: > > a) brushing and flossing twice a day YUP. > b) getting enough calcium NOPE. Too late now! Teeth are not-exchanged with the body pool of calcium. >Thanks so very much for the dental counseling. Lord knows I need it! >I'm tired of these "caries" ruining my life. > >-Luiza >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 YUP. Fluoride has been the biggest factor for better teeth in America. >In tiny does, mercury is not harmful. What about full grown does ? -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>In tiny does, mercury is not harmful. > >What about full grown does ? Or in bucks? >Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net >Date: 11/30/2004 11:29 AM Pacific Standard Time >Message-id: <g0opq09g2rtofpi84b0q2dmtl31d5513o0@4ax.com> > >>In tiny does, mercury is not harmful. Always except to hear lies from Joel. Research in molecular biology has elucidated mechanisms that may underlie the >>toxic effects of mercury. >> >>Studies of the effects of mercury on the immune system in rodents have enhanced >>knowledge of the mechanisms whereby mercury affects the immune system. Clinical >>studies of occupationally exposed employees have objectively confirmed >>subclinical influence of mercury on the immune system at low levels of mercury >>exposure. >> >>The thyroid has been identified as the target organ for the toxic effect of >>mercury in occupational exposure to mercury vapour in low doses. Clinical studies of the effects of mercury on occupationally exposed workers, >>using modern diagnostic methods, have elucidated the connection between dose >>and effect. They have also identified and quantified neuropsychological >>symptoms at low exposure levels. Relation between symptoms and mercury concentrations in saliva after chewing. The Tübingen amalgam study could establish in the especially examined group of 21-40 year old persons a statistically significant relation between mercury levels in saliva and symptoms. Only symptoms which are characteristic of subacute or chronic mercury exposure in the low-level range were studied. Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous system resulting in polyneuropathies (reduced sensory and motor nerve function) and neuropsychological effects (visual alterations, sensory loss, stress) (ATSDR 1989); these effects correlate to tissue levels of 20 to 40 µg/g. Neuropsychological effects were also reported by Smith et al. (1970) for occupational exposure to mercury levels of > 0.1 mg/m3. Mercury concentrations below this value did not appear to cause observable effects. Kishi et al. (1993) reported that neurobehavioral and motor function effects persisted in ex-mercury miners more than 10 years after cessation of exposure. Once inhaled, elemental mercury is mostly converted to an inorganic divalent or mercuric form by catalase in the red blood cells. This inorganic form has similar properties to organic mercury. Small amounts of non-oxidized elemental mercury continue to persist and account for CNS toxicity. Elemental mercury, as a vapor, which escapes from fillings, penetrates the blood-brain-barrier and enters the CNS, where it's ionized and trapped, attributing to its significant toxic effects http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm Environmental Effect of Dental Amalgam Mercury is one of the most toxic substances commonly encountered, and according to Government agencies causes adverse health effects in large numbers of people in the U.S.[1] The extreme toxicity of mercury can be seen from documented effects on wildlife by very low levels of mercury exposure. The average amalgam filling has more than ½ gram of mercury, and has been documented to continuously leak mercury into the body of those with amalgam fillings due to the low mercury vapor pressure and galvanic current induced by mixed metals in the mouth. 1. Hg plasma concentration correlated with no.of amalgam fillings. > http://tinyurl.com/cdb0 2003 2. Correlation between number of fillings and salivary Hg. > http://tinyurl.com/cgs 2000 3. The amount of organic and inorganic mercury in paraffin-stimulated > saliva was significantly higher in subjects with dental amalgam fillings > http://tinyurl.com/cgs1 2001 > 4. Mercury vapour release increases with chewing, with absorption and > uptake by the brain and kidneys. > http://tinyurl.com/cczd 2002 5. Amalgam causes nerve cell toxicity in culture. > http://tinyurl.com/ccyo 2003 6. Plasma concentrations of mercury before and after treatment > supported the metal exposure to be causative for the ill health. > http://tinyurl.com/ccyr 2002 7 None of the materials tested consistently prevented microleakage. > http://tinyurl.com/cfcg 2002 8. In neither of the nonamalgam groups was this [wastewater] limit > exceeded, but 20.5% in the amalgam group exceeded the limit > http://tinyurl.com/ccyu 2002 9. I-Hg levels in placenta increased with an increasing number of > maternal dental amalgam fillings (p < 0.001)... a substantial fraction of > maternal blood I-Hg, probably as Hg(0), reached the fetus. > http://tinyurl.com/cgrz 2002 10 Evidence of a pro-oxidant role of the amalgam Hg chronically released > in saliva. > http://tinyurl.com/cgrv 2002 > 11. Mercury released into air from dry abraded amalgam > was shown to be above the recommended industrial limit > http://tinyurl.com/cf7j 2002 http://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/mercury.htm Low Level Mercury Causes Behavior Problems During Pregnancy Subtle behavior problems were observed in mice offspring exposed to a single low level mercury dose. In summarizing the results of their study, the researchers stated, "This hypothesis generating study showed highly significant correlations between mood scores and most measures of low level Hg (mercury) exposure. The specific mood measures most associated with Hg exposure were tension, fatigue, and confusion. The strength of these associations suggests that mood should be included for investigation in future hypothesis-testing studies..... Among the cognitive and motor function tests, only the digit span and simple reaction time (nondominant hand) scores were associated with any measure of exposure...... Overall, and despite the small size of the study population, this investigation found some evidence of adverse preclinical effects at mercury doses averaging 36 ugs/l in urine. The mood and symptom results of this study agree with prior evaluations of both high and low urinary mercury doses. These preliminary survey findings support a critical evaluation of the adequacy of the 50 ug/g creatinine biologic threshold for mercury proposed by the World Health Organization This is the first U.S. dental study to detect potential behavioral deficits at such a low level of exposure. A larger and more comprehensive study is required to accurately determine a biologic threshold of adverse central and peripheral nervous system effects for elemental mercury." Drs. Diana Echeverria, Nicholas J. Heyer, Michael D. Martin, Conrad A Naleway Depart. of Environ. Health, Univ. of Washington, School of Dentistry, Univ. of Washington Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol. 17(2):161-168, 1995 Dopamine Uptake in Brain Cells Changed By Methylmercury Attention Deficit Disorder children were reported in other headings in this book as having altered dopamine levels. Several compounds, including alcohol, have been shown to alter dopamine levels in test animals. Now, researchers at Duke University Medical School have shown that even very low levels of methylmercury result in dopamine and norepinephrine brain neurotransmitter changes. Jan >>Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Always except to hear lies from Joel. This also applies to large bucks. >Research in molecular biology has elucidated mechanisms that may underlie the >>>toxic effects of mercury. [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] > >Jan Thanks for all your help joel and adenosine! Ok, so let me clarify. I was born with bad teeth genetics, and was only breastfed for 1 month (and then put on cow's milk). My mom has had extensive work done on her teeth, my grandma has fake teeth, and my parents never encouraged or made it mandatory to brush my teeth before bed-time (probably the worst thing not to do at the worst possible time). What you're telling me, is that there is a way I can keep from getting cavities again and again... It is by persistently removing the bacteria that causes them? That's it? Well, I'm definitely being a lot more diligent about it. It's funny, though, that after I drink a glass of yogurt, my teeth suddenly feel stronger and better, and my cavities hurt less. Is this a psychosomatic response, or could the calcium be helping me in some way? BTW I google everything. I stumbled upon this group because I was a little worried about my amalgams. Having one removed today at 3pm. Wish me luck. p.s. adenosine.. I feel for your regarding your tooth problems. It can be quite depressing can't it? When I first came to the states, at the age of 6, I found out I had 17 cavities! Every few years, I get a few. This year it's 8 cavities and one possible route canal, but I think it had something to do with being pregnant and then subsequently nursing. It's frustrating when my husband's co-workers tell him, "adults aren't supposed to get cavities. You get them when you're a kid and when you're old." Man, I feel like punching that guy in the face. That and people who NEVER floss, but do brush once a day and use Listerine twice a day, like my husband, and have never had ONE cavity! And on top of it all, the dental assistant telling my husband that she "likes his teeth". If that's not salt on a wound, I don't know what is. I truly hope my daughter has good teeth. > >-Luiza > >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 S-O-D-A P-O-P Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Thanks for all your help joel and adenosine! > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> >-Luiza >> >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 >It's funny, though, >that after I drink a glass of yogurt, my teeth suddenly feel stronger >and better, and my cavities hurt less. Is this a psychosomatic >response, or could the calcium be helping me in some way? Psychosomatic. You can help prevent future decay by using 0.4% SnF gel such as Gek-Kam... Now available OTC. >BTW I google everything. I stumbled upon this group because I was a >little worried about my amalgams. Having one removed today at 3pm. >Wish me luck. I'll wish the dentist has skill, then no luck is needed. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com None of the dentists here have any close affiliation (other than being friends on a newsgroup). I attended dental school with Dr. Heurter who is now an orthodontist an hour or so drive from where I practice. I have never met any of the other dentists to date. We all have very different practices in very different geographical and social settings. Some of us use amalgam quite a bit, some of us a little, and some of us not at all. We do agree that removing servicable amalgams for the specific purpose of curing disease is fraud. > What's the dealio? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? I'm > getting it removed tomorrow. J** is a retired day care operator who knows nothing of medicine or dentistry. If you listen to J**, you might deserve what you get. > 2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, > ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more > refined sugar? Refined sugar and carbohydrates are part of the problem, but cavities are not new to humanity. Also it wasn't that long ago that most people died before the age of 40. > 3) I've had MANY cavities in my lifetime, too many to count, and I'm > only 24! How would you rate the importance of the following in keeping [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > b) getting enough calcium The number one problem that I see with respect to cavities is a sugar habit between meals. The number one sugar habit that I see is sipping on soft drinks. There is nothing that a dentist can do that will undo what a patient will not do. Best wishes, Fawks > -Luiza > mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 [clip] > J** is a retired day care operator who knows nothing of medicine or > dentistry. If you listen to J**, you might deserve what you get. [clip] I agree. For those who end up getting what they don't deserve, they would be someone like a minor child who gets what the parent provides. Sad, sad, sad. TW (snip) > There is nothing that a dentist can do that will undo what a patient > will not do. I'm gonna have to try to wrap my mind around that line for a moment--it sounds a little bit like Yogi. Steve > Best wishes, > Fawks > >> -Luiza >> mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 Not that you really need a translation, but: I can do nothing to stop cavities now or in the future if a patient will not quit a sugar habit and take good care of their teeth. Kind of like, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink...only different. :-) Fawks > (snip) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Steve > Not that you really need a translation, but: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > :-) > Fawks The quote I remember is " If they don't want to come to the game, there ain't no way to stop them from coming." Cant vouch for the accuracy of that one. Steve >> (snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >(snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Steve 90% of the game is half mental. >> Best wishes, >> Fawks >> >>> -Luiza >>> mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Twenty percent of zero is better than nothing. > >(snip) > >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Take out the G'RBAGE > wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Steve Fawks and I have spoken over the phone. As have StovePipe and myself. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > None of the dentists here have any close affiliation (other than being [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> -Luiza >> mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 > Steve Fawks and I have spoken over the phone............ Still don't have caller ID? carabelli I was calling from a hotel in Detroit, so I fooled him. Fawks >>Steve Fawks and I have spoken over the phone............ > > Still don't have caller ID? > > carabelli > I was calling from a hotel in Detroit, so I fooled him. > > Fawks Smart! I might have even answered. carabelli I am still disappointed that our paths did not intersect better that day! Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> I was calling from a hotel in Detroit, so I fooled him. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > carabelli Poor planning on my part, but I didn't really know the scheduling for my daughter's games until we got there. If I would have been thinking, I could have at least given notice of the days we were going to be in town. With everything going on, it came upon me late..."hey, Mancuso is up here somewhere!" My bad, Fawks > I am still disappointed that our paths did not intersect better that day! You have to show up for the next "get together" Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > > Poor planning on my part, but I didn't really know the scheduling for my [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> I am still disappointed that our paths did not intersect better that day! >> Steve Fawks and I have spoken over the phone............ > >Still don't have caller ID? > >carabelli Good one aGAIN! Dear Weezie, Jan is entitled to any opinions she may have. She is entitled to give her opinion at any time. However, she lacks the humanity to participate in a civil discussion on an adult level. She instantly resorts to insulting and libel as soon any attempt is made to clarify her stance on any topic. We have had to deal with her for years on this forum and are somewhat tired of her games. Earlier this year I thought I might be able to exchange viewpoints with her and find out where her opinions come from and share where my opinions came from. I thought we could get along better and understand each other better that way. She refused (and still does) to have a two-way discussion. You will notice her persistent cut-and-paste of the same URL links where I tried to get her to just explain what she meant when she used a simple term. I did not want to upset her by using the term in a different fashion that she was using it. She says I was setting a trap, but will not say what the trap was. Who knows what she figured I was trying to do. If you are interested, I will add my thoughts under your questions below. Feel free to read, comment or ignore. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Hello Everyone. > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? I'm > getting it removed tomorrow. Jan is not scientifically qualified to comment. She does not not understand scientific method. A filling will release some mercury vapor from its surface. The amount of vapor released is relative to the amount of surface area exposed. The greater the surface area of the filling (bigger filling) the more vapor which can escape. If a tooth cusp breaks off and exposes another side of the filling, some increase of vapor release would be possible. Abrasion, of the surface increases surface area as some material is being removed and vapor release goes up as well. As soon as the abrasion stops, the vapor release returns to its previous levels. Removing an existing filing does not produce heat (unless it is done in 1958), since dentists all use a water cooled handpiece to grind out the filling, now. The dentist will also use high volume suction to suck out the loose pieces, dust from the grinding, slurry of water mixed with the dust, and most of the released vapors. You will have a short term increase in mercury vapor, but the way dentistry has been removing old amalgams for the past twenty years, the increase in vapor exposure is not eough to be concerned about. > 2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, > ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more > refined sugar? Dental decay has been with humanity since pre-historic times. Life-spans are longer now, and evolutionary pressure to weed out people who get more decay is gone. Diet certainly is a concern as well. > 3) I've had MANY cavities in my lifetime, too many to count, and I'm > only 24! How would you rate the importance of the following in keeping > teeth healthy: > > a) brushing and flossing twice a day Extremelly important > b) getting enough calcium Not that significant regarding decay--so long as you get enough calcium to support bodily functions. You know,,,,, daily dietary allowances. Most important is not to feed the bacteria with simple sugars, and not to bath the teeth in potent acids (like soda pop). >Dear Weezie, > >Jan is entitled to any opinions she may have. She is entitled to give her >opinion at any time. However, she lacks the humanity to participate in a >civil discussion on an adult level. This is because we are all lying ........ > She instantly resorts to insulting and >libel as soon any attempt is made to clarify her stance on any topic. We [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >If you are interested, I will add my thoughts under your questions below. >Feel free to read, comment or ignore. Thanks again for your answers. I got my broken amalgam removed today-- I opted for that instead of a root canal (hee hee), so possible root canal next week. I am so happy I have one less silver filling in my mouth! My dentist used lots of water (I should know, I gulped a lot of it), because she told me that those vapors are more of a threat to her than to me. I got a bit of a headache after the "procedure" and my tooth hurts a little, it might be the one that needs a possible RCT, but other than that, I am doing okay, and my daughter seems to be doing ok as well. I would still like to hear Jan's side of the story. I remember Joel writing something about Jan being a "troll". I hear this word tossed around in groups everywhere, but am not exactly sure about its meaning. What is the fullest meaning of the word "troll" as it pertains to forums? Thanks, Luiza >Thanks again for your answers. > >I got my broken amalgam removed today-- I opted for that instead of a >root canal (hee hee), so possible root canal next week. I am so happy >I have one less silver filling in my mouth! Isn't the difference amazing? I was suprised at how much better it looked after my failing amalgams were replaced. >My dentist used lots of >water (I should know, I gulped a lot of it), because she told me that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >What is the fullest meaning of the word "troll" as it pertains to >forums? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll That is a pretty good explaination. >Thanks, > >Luiza -- Adenosine Semi-informed Dental Consumer ? >Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >From: Adenosine adenosine@nospam.com [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Isn't the difference amazing? I was suprised at how much better it >looked after my failing amalgams were replaced. These studies show that mercury levels increase in the days following amalgam removal, and don't decline to the pre-operative level for about a month. Eur J Oral Sci 1999 Jun;107(3):202-7 Effect of rubber dam on mercury exposure during amalgam removal. Kremers L, Halbach S, Willruth H, Mehl A, Welzl G, Wack FX, Hickel R, Greim H. Department of Restorative Dentistry and Periodontology, University of Munich, Germany. It was the aim of this investigation to treat 20 volunteers with maximally 5 amalgam fillings by the same comprehensive protocol in which all removals with (n = 8) and without (n = 12) rubber dam had been performed within a few months. Nine amalgam-related parameters indicated a close matching of both groups before removal. In the group without rubber dam, mercury (Hg) levels in plasma increased significantly above preremoval values at days 1 and 3 after removal; they decreased significantly below preremoval values at day 30 in the rubber-dam group and at day 100 in both groups. Excretion rates did not increase significantly in either group, but decreased significantly at day 100 in the protected group. Peak plasma-Hg was 0.6 ng/mL on average at day one and decreased with halftimes of 3 and 43 d in subjects protected by rubber dam. The results indicated that concentrations of total mercury in plasma responded rapidly to changes in the amalgam status and reflected the actual absorption most reliably. Notably, plasma-Hg levels were sensitive enough to detect a transient attenuation of the additional exposure by using rubber dam during the removal of only a few fillings. However, being small in magnitude and lasting 100 d at best, the rubber-dam effect had minor toxicological relevance. Acta Odontol Scand. 1990 Jun;48(3):189-202. Mercury, selenium, and glutathione peroxidase before and after amalgam removal in man. Molin M, Bergman B, Marklund SL, Schutz A, Skerfving S. Department of Prosthetic Dentistry, University of Umea, Sweden. In 10 healthy persons all amalgam fillings were replaced with gold inlays. Blood and urinary levels were measured on 10 occasions during a 4-month period before and a 12-month period after amalgam removal. These variables were also measured three times in 10 healthy controls. A strong statistically significant relation was found between plasma mercury values and both the total number of amalgam surfaces (r = 0.71, p = 0.0006) and the total surface area of the fillings (r = 0.73, p = 0.0004). In the immediate postremoval phase plasma mercury rose three- to four-fold, whereas the urinary and erythrocyte mercury rose about 50%. These peak values declined to the preremoval level at about 1 month. Twelve months after the removal the plasma and urinary mercury levels were significantly reduced to 50% and 25%, respectively, of the initial values for the experimental group. Apart from the significantly lower plasma selenium values 5 and 10 days after removal no significant differences were found with regard to plasma selenium or erythrocyte glutathione peroxidase either within or between the experimental and the control groups. A large number of supplementary biochemical analyses did not show any influence on organ functions or any differences between the groups before or after the amalgam removal. Amalgam fillings considerably contributed to the plasma and urinary mercury levels. This is NOT what you told us before Jan Was it a fib before or a fib now? >These studies show that mercury levels increase in the >days following amalgam removal, and don't decline >to the pre-operative level for about a month. ....and in double-blind studies, Break Dancing was greatly improved. >From: Adenosine A person who makes posts (on newsgroups or other forums) that are solely intended to provoke responses from others, or to cause annoyance or offense. >>What is the fullest meaning of the word "troll" as it pertains to >>forums? > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll >That is a pretty good explaination. A person who makes posts (on newsgroups or other forums) that are solely intended to provoke responses from others, or to cause annoyance or offense. An excellent example for Adenosine himself. *Well, I *am* trying to be a jerk* *Would you please give me the location of your mother's grave? I have some nitrogenous waste I need to get rid of. I have a bunch of amalgam restorations in my mouth, you can see if the extra mercury in the waste causes the grass the gravesite to die.* *I simply want to make her angry. I can't do that talking about this. If I can't get the pleasure of making her angry, then I may as well shut up.* >A person who makes posts (on newsgroups or other forums) that are solely >intended to provoke responses from others, or to cause annoyance or offense. >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: Attention anti-vaccination liars >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-28 12:14:24 PST >Mark................. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: We know that Jan .... >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-06-19 14:14:00 PST >Not surprising Joel. You non compassionate little jerk. >Drop Dead. >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: I want to SELL my A+ KIDNEY. This is legal in my country!! 2441 >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-12 18:49:46 PST >Andrew.................................... > >Drop dead. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: OT Re: Mercury/Dentists todays WSJ >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-05-11 23:26:44 PST >DROP DEAD!! > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: The Man Who Loves To Bust Quacks >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-05-03 09:31:26 PST >In two words new debunker, who doesn't want to comment............. > >Drop Dead. > >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: JanDrew: Still an enigma. >Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry >Date: 2001-04-08 19:36:47 PST >No you don't need to go again, you can always drop dead if you prefer >Jan >From: JDrew63929 (jdrew63929@aol.com) >Subject: Re: Soil Theory? >Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative >Date: 2001-03-19 17:57:17 PST >You are as low as Rich. > >Drop Dead. > >Jan >>Your words come back to bite you. >> >>Jan >I would still like to hear Jan's side of the story. I remember Joel >writing something about Jan being a "troll". I hear this word tossed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What is the fullest meaning of the word "troll" as it pertains to >forums? Trolls are vertically challenged people, they generally live in the forest, and love green outfits ..... ... and in this case, they love Break Dancing. Joel >Subject: Re: Never-Ending Obsession >From: "Dr Steve" nospam@home.net [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >civil discussion on an adult level. She instantly resorts to insulting and >libel as soon any attempt is made to clarify her stance on any topic. An exact example of the dentists here. >Earlier this year I thought I might be able to exchange >viewpoints with her and find out where her opinions come from and share >where my opinions came from. I thought we could get along better and >understand each other better that way. She refused (and still does) to have >a two-way discussion. Prrof of that lie here. http://tinyurl.com/3rly6 Read the entire thread. You wil quickly see how W_B jumped in and opened his big mouth and how Steve tired to cover his lie. Proof that Steve is gulty of exactly what he accused me of ,below. He got caught in his own trap, then lied more to over his first lie. http://tinyurl.com/5ufrd <snip> >Jan is not scientifically qualified to comment. She does not not understand >scientific method. The truth is I have posted more science that any dentist here. It exposes their denial. >A filling will release some mercury vapor from its surface. There is overwhelming scientific evidence that mercury constantly leaches from amalgam fillings, entering every part of the body including the brain. >the increase in vapor exposure is not eough to be concerned about Research in molecular biology has elucidated mechanisms that may underlie the >>toxic effects of mercury. >> >>Studies of the effects of mercury on the immune system in rodents have enhanced >>knowledge of the mechanisms whereby mercury affects the immune system. Clinical >>studies of occupationally exposed employees have objectively confirmed >>subclinical influence of mercury on the immune system at low levels of mercury >>exposure. >> >>The thyroid has been identified as the target organ for the toxic effect of >>mercury in occupational exposure to mercury vapour in low doses. Clinical studies of the effects of mercury on occupationally exposed workers, >>using modern diagnostic methods, have elucidated the connection between dose >>and effect. They have also identified and quantified neuropsychological >>symptoms at low exposure levels. Relation between symptoms and mercury concentrations in saliva after chewing. The Tübingen amalgam study could establish in the especially examined group of 21-40 year old persons a statistically significant relation between mercury levels in saliva and symptoms. Only symptoms which are characteristic of subacute or chronic mercury exposure in the low-level range were studied. Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous system resulting in polyneuropathies (reduced sensory and motor nerve function) and neuropsychological effects (visual alterations, sensory loss, stress) (ATSDR 1989); these effects correlate to tissue levels of 20 to 40 µg/g. Neuropsychological effects were also reported by Smith et al. (1970) for occupational exposure to mercury levels of > 0.1 mg/m3. Mercury concentrations below this value did not appear to cause observable effects. Kishi et al. (1993) reported that neurobehavioral and motor function effects persisted in ex-mercury miners more than 10 years after cessation of exposure. Once inhaled, elemental mercury is mostly converted to an inorganic divalent or mercuric form by catalase in the red blood cells. This inorganic form has similar properties to organic mercury. Small amounts of non-oxidized elemental mercury continue to persist and account for CNS toxicity. Elemental mercury, as a vapor, which escapes from fillings, penetrates the blood-brain-barrier and enters the CNS, where it's ionized and trapped, attributing to its significant toxic effects http://www.floridalcv.org/FLCVEdFund/environmental_effect_of_dental_a.htm Environmental Effect of Dental Amalgam Mercury is one of the most toxic substances commonly encountered, and according to Government agencies causes adverse health effects in large numbers of people in the U.S.[1] The extreme toxicity of mercury can be seen from documented effects on wildlife by very low levels of mercury exposure. The average amalgam filling has more than ½ gram of mercury, and has been documented to continuously leak mercury into the body of those with amalgam fillings due to the low mercury vapor pressure and galvanic current induced by mixed metals in the mouth. 1. Hg plasma concentration correlated with no.of amalgam fillings. > http://tinyurl.com/cdb0 2003 2. Correlation between number of fillings and salivary Hg. > http://tinyurl.com/cgs 2000 3. The amount of organic and inorganic mercury in paraffin-stimulated > saliva was significantly higher in subjects with dental amalgam fillings > http://tinyurl.com/cgs1 2001 > 4. Mercury vapour release increases with chewing, with absorption and > uptake by the brain and kidneys. > http://tinyurl.com/cczd 2002 5. Amalgam causes nerve cell toxicity in culture. > http://tinyurl.com/ccyo 2003 6. Plasma concentrations of mercury before and after treatment > supported the metal exposure to be causative for the ill health. > http://tinyurl.com/ccyr 2002 7 None of the materials tested consistently prevented microleakage. > http://tinyurl.com/cfcg 2002 8. In neither of the nonamalgam groups was this [wastewater] limit > exceeded, but 20.5% in the amalgam group exceeded the limit > http://tinyurl.com/ccyu 2002 9. I-Hg levels in placenta increased with an increasing number of > maternal dental amalgam fillings (p < 0.001)... a substantial fraction of > maternal blood I-Hg, probably as Hg(0), reached the fetus. > http://tinyurl.com/cgrz 2002 10 Evidence of a pro-oxidant role of the amalgam Hg chronically released > in saliva. > http://tinyurl.com/cgrv 2002 > 11. Mercury released into air from dry abraded amalgam > was shown to be above the recommended industrial limit > http://tinyurl.com/cf7j 2002 http://www.chem-tox.com/pregnancy/mercury.htm Low Level Mercury Causes Behavior Problems During Pregnancy Subtle behavior problems were observed in mice offspring exposed to a single low level mercury dose. In summarizing the results of their study, the researchers stated, "This hypothesis generating study showed highly significant correlations between mood scores and most measures of low level Hg (mercury) exposure. The specific mood measures most associated with Hg exposure were tension, fatigue, and confusion. The strength of these associations suggests that mood should be included for investigation in future hypothesis-testing studies..... Among the cognitive and motor function tests, only the digit span and simple reaction time (nondominant hand) scores were associated with any measure of exposure...... Overall, and despite the small size of the study population, this investigation found some evidence of adverse preclinical effects at mercury doses averaging 36 ugs/l in urine. The mood and symptom results of this study agree with prior evaluations of both high and low urinary mercury doses. These preliminary survey findings support a critical evaluation of the adequacy of the 50 ug/g creatinine biologic threshold for mercury proposed by the World Health Organization This is the first U.S. dental study to detect potential behavioral deficits at such a low level of exposure. A larger and more comprehensive study is required to accurately determine a biologic threshold of adverse central and peripheral nervous system effects for elemental mercury." Drs. Diana Echeverria, Nicholas J. Heyer, Michael D. Martin, Conrad A Naleway Depart. of Environ. Health, Univ. of Washington, School of Dentistry, Univ. of Washington Neurotoxicology and Teratology, Vol. 17(2):161-168, 1995 Dopamine Uptake in Brain Cells Changed By Methylmercury Attention Deficit Disorder children were reported in other headings in this book as having altered dopamine levels. Several compounds, including alcohol, have been shown to alter dopamine levels in test animals. Now, researchers at Duke University Medical School have shown that even very low levels of methylmercury result in dopamine and norepinephrine brain neurotransmitter changes. Jan I would be happy to return to the incomplete discussion at any time, but as you can see, the deleted message is all the POI wishes to offer as any discussion. WE cannot get past this cut-and-paste. Oh well. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... [snipped fear] "Jan >Subject: Never-Ending Obsession >From: grsgirl@aol.com (Weezie) [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >What's the dealio? The dentists here are of the *I*-don't-want-to-be-informed-attitude. I post the risks and science and ask pointed questions they can't answer. >1) Jan thinks my filling could be leaking more mercury because it is >broken, would you concur with that, or would you say that it takes >intense drilling heat to vaporize more Hg out of my amalgam? Amalgams leak constantly, and more so with eating, brushung, grinding and hot drinks. > I'm getting it removed tomorrow. At the peril of your baby. Jan >2) Are cavities a relatively *new* thing in the human timeline, >ruining people's teeth from the time that society began eating more [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >-Luiza >mom to Shelly Rei, born 9/2/04 "Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote................ >> I'm getting it removed tomorrow. > > At the peril of your baby. > > Jan For Luiza- If you are really worried, use a pump to keep the works going and use formula for a week or two. If it were my child we wouldn't bother with it. Surprisingly, the *daycare professional* didn't come up with that solution. carabelli > >> I'm getting it removed tomorrow. > > > > At the peril of your baby. > > > > Jan Ouch! That hurt. My baby seems to be doing just fine (knock on wood), and is not acting any differently from yesterday, before the removal of my broken filling. My dentist used lots of cold water and hig-powered suction to insure the well being of all three of us; me, my baby and herself. You know, if you think about it, mercury vapor goes right up the dentist's nose when he/she is working on someone's teeth, so he/she is more likely to be in harm's way in regards to mercury vapor than your or I. I would think it would be in his/her interest to diminish any harm that could arise from the removal of an amalgam. I don't appreciate unsubstantiated fearmongering. -Luiza Besides, Inuit mothers' milk is considered TOXIC WASTE from consuming whales that have been poisoned w/ mercury by modern industry, and it's still considered better than formula! The truth is, I have one less silver filling in my mouth, and the better off we both are, Shelly and I. In 30 days my mercury levels will be lower than they have been in 10 years! And I think it's time to celebrate. Thank you and good night! Way to go Weezie! Get your advice only from Qualified Doctors & Dentists - Not medically unqualified activists & troublemakers. Jan - you should know better. |
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