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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2004

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Goin' to Toronto

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StovePipe - 23 Oct 2004 03:52 GMT
Seeing Ray Bertolotti on Sunday and I'm gonna learn him a thing or two
about Adhesive Dentistry. ;-) Will be in touch with Roy Brown and I'll
bring my camera and we can get a photo to plaster all over the Internet.
Will post the highlights of that course (as I see them, of course...)

I'm going to take the plane from Montreal on Saturady (the 23rd of Oct)
at 17h00 and to get to the big City (3hours away) I have to take my
bucket of bolts on the highway. Any bets on whether I make it to the Mtl
airport in one piece or not?

Cheeahs
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Bill Combs - 24 Oct 2004 02:10 GMT
I hope you make it to the airport in one piece!

Bertolotti is always interesting and has a bucket of updates to give
during his lectures. I'll be looking forward to seeing you post the
highlights of the course. He's got to be one of the original bonding
experts.

Let us know what's new!

Thanks,
dentaldoc

> Seeing Ray Bertolotti on Sunday and I'm gonna learn him a thing or two
> about Adhesive Dentistry. ;-) Will be in touch with Roy Brown and I'll
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Cheeahs
> SP
Roy Brown - 24 Oct 2004 16:57 GMT
Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
lecture this morning.
Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

|I hope you make it to the airport in one piece!
|
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
| > Cheeahs
| > SP
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 17:17 GMT
>Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
>sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
>lecture this morning.

Which video did he watch the other 1/2 of the time?

Joel
StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT
> >Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
> >sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Joel

I slept. It was quite late.
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 24 Oct 2004 20:16 GMT
>Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
>sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
>lecture this morning.

Kewl.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr Steve - 25 Oct 2004 16:45 GMT
So Molly made a new friend?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
> sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> | > Cheeahs
> | > SP
StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:08 GMT
> So Molly made a new friend?

Absolutely! She is a big and sturdy dog, but never imposing and very
outgoing personality. My kinda dog. She probably could sniff the scent
of our rabbit as well.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 28 Oct 2004 02:05 GMT
>> So Molly made a new friend?
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Cheeahs
>SP

Yes, Molly is a great friend. Did Roy tell you about the racoon in my
yard while Molly was here?

I will bet you learned a lot while visiting Roy. Did you  notice how
clean his operatories are?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 02:55 GMT
We never had time to get into the racoon story,

And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
promised.
Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

| Yes, Molly is a great friend. Did Roy tell you about the racoon in my
| yard while Molly was here?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
|
| Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
The Webby - 30 Oct 2004 04:44 GMT
Nothing to do with your thread but just want to send a greeting to you,
Roy.  Hope you and family are doing fine.

Sabra

> We never had time to get into the racoon story,
>
> And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
> promised.
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 17:58 GMT
Thanks Sabra,
Considering we had to bring Molly in for orthopaedic surgery her other leg a
couple of weeks back, we are all doing fine. And you and yours?
Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

| Nothing to do with your thread but just want to send a greeting to you,
| Roy.  Hope you and family are doing fine.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
| > And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
| > promised.
StovePipe - 30 Oct 2004 08:10 GMT
> We never had time to get into the racoon story,
>
> And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
> promised.

I did notice how clean and orderly everything was at Roy's place, yes.
It's amazing what an organized person can do with a small space. It's
really too bad that Roy couldn't get a decent vacation this past summer.
I couldn't do that. First they'd divorce me, then they'd dissect me,
then they'd kill me; and in that order.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 30 Oct 2004 15:57 GMT
>We never had time to get into the racoon story,
>
>And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
>promised.
But the treatment rooms still sparkled, right?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
StovePipe - 30 Oct 2004 18:04 GMT
> >We never had time to get into the racoon story,
> >
> >And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as
> >promised.
> But the treatment rooms still sparkled, right?

Absolutely. I would have no qualms what ever sitting in his chair
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT
> Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
> sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the
> lecture this morning.

And a thousand thanks to Roy, Carolanne and their charming Molly! They
are really high-class people, and I was recieved in Fiver Star fashion.
I couldn't have asked for better hosts. Roy drove half-way accross the
sprawling city outskirts to get me there. We had a really good talk, and
it's clear that Roy really knows his stuff. His charming wife Carolanne
is a very good hostess as well, and between them, I was waited on like a
king. Molly is getting better, and is clearly an intelligent as well as
friendly dog.

I cannot thank them enough, and would reciprocate any time they want.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr Steve - 25 Oct 2004 17:13 GMT
Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics!  I learn from
him all the time.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking,
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Cheeahs
> SP
StovePipe - 26 Oct 2004 04:02 GMT
> Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics!  I learn from
> him all the time.

That's more or less what I tol' him. He would be a great leader of his
local group down there in T.O.... or even better a great prof. The only
problem is that he'd have to put up with all them AH's that're there
b/cs their lazy, etc. Ah well, maybe later when he's too old to cook a
denture.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr Steve - 26 Oct 2004 20:24 GMT
I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area.  I would
probably have to refer all my denture cases to him.  Too hard to do a better
job than he does.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics!  I learn from
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Cheeahs
> SP
StovePipe - 27 Oct 2004 00:32 GMT
> I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area.  I would
> probably have to refer all my denture cases to him.  Too hard to do a better
> job than he does.

Or, you'd have him working next to you or in your office and then he
wouldn't have to put up with a lot of the riff-raff that he does now.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr Steve - 27 Oct 2004 13:11 GMT
If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any
day.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>
>> I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area.  I would
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Cheeahs
> SP
StovePipe - 27 Oct 2004 14:38 GMT
> If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any
> day.

There ya go, Roy.... ;-)
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 27 Oct 2004 23:26 GMT
>If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any
>day.

If he was your 'in house' lab tech that would mean
he just couldn't take impressions or extract teeth.
The doctor of course would have to deliver the prosthesis
and do the diagnosis.

ITYKWIM.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 03:14 GMT
I think I do, you are all being too kind.
Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

| >If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any
| >day.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
| --
| W_B
W_B - 30 Oct 2004 06:29 GMT
>I think I do, you are all being too kind.

You could do worse than teaming up with SM.
Alot worse !!!

Considered it myself. Very seriously.

SM is a master. So are you, from what I hear from
people whose' opinions that I respect.
And I can tell you bro, that is very few indeed.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 30 Oct 2004 16:04 GMT
>>I think I do, you are all being too kind.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>people whose' opinions that I respect.
>And I can tell you bro, that is very few indeed.

Hey, the three of us together!!
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 03:12 GMT
Time for you to reciprocate Steve.

I've got Stove Pipes NTI case here, too bad we did not have the models when
we were together.

The patient is prognathic.
Missing upper centrals and laterals.
Lower anteriors are over 6mm anterior to the most labial portion of the
upper anterior ridge.
They are proclined approx. 80 degrees from the plane of occlusion.
They are widely spaced and uneven on the incisal edges.

My thoughts are to:
Make a DE extend anteriorly from an acrylic palate
and an acrylic stent on the lower anteriors levelling the plane while
filling in the gaps to the cuspids but not covering the cuspids.

Any thoughts?

Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

| Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics!  I learn from
| him all the time.
W_B - 30 Oct 2004 06:22 GMT
>Time for you to reciprocate Steve.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Any thoughts?

Well if you don't mind my input, sounds very reasonable.

Will the patient wear two devices ?

Have a couple of patients in this configuration.
Existing mand. planes. I added the NTI.
Neither patient is prognathic but this config works quite well.

'specially in the uneven realm.

Motor on bro,

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 31 Oct 2004 18:28 GMT
>Time for you to reciprocate Steve.
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Any thoughts?

Well, if the lower anterior diastema are wide, then we need to keep
the DE from dropping between the teeth.  If lateral range of motion is
not *too* great, we could make a wider DE to make sure we can never
wedge it between two teeth.  If at all possible, I would adjust the
lower incisal edges so that the DE would be able to ride across them
from one side to the other without "bumps".  If the NTI is worn all
night and a little bit during the day, you could adjust incisal edges
until you had a reasonable incisal plane for the DE to work on.  

If the lateral range of motion is great, and the lower cuspids are
going to contact the DE easily during lateral excursions, or the
patient refused incisal recontouring, then I would add a lower NTI.

I think success rate in this individual would be better with the upper
NTI hitting natural teeth. If the lower teeth are periodontally
involved, then a lower NTI would come back into play as a removable
night-time splint.  

For the upper, making a stent type of appliance with a pair of ball
clasps would probably work well.  Add the DE to the anterior portion.
Extend the DE out as far as needed to make it work.  Again, a lower
NTI might be beneficial as you would only have to extend the DE
anteriorly enough to stay on the lower NTI.  You could even add
acrylic to the lingual of the lower NTI so that the DE would not have
to extend out so far.  As long as the stent-type appliance is
retentive, I would consider drilling a bunch of holes through it for
saliva and air flow.  Just to keep the soft tissues from getting
"soft".  

This case would probably require bringing the patient back every week
or so for the first few weeks to make sure he is complying with
protocol and to make necessary adjustment.  To gain any success at
all, the patient has to wear all this stuff at night.  I would insist
the patient insert everything at least 3 hours before bed-time to make
sure it feels moderately natural by the time he is trying to sleep.  

Any chance that once the clenching is under control that a lower
appliance could be made to pull the lower incisors more upright?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 31 Oct 2004 18:45 GMT
>You could even add
>acrylic to the lingual of the lower NTI so that the DE would not have
>to extend out so far

One of the CC's I get is the inability to close the lips.

Usually can thin the facial enough to achive this.

That prognathic case is a bear.

Remember the Hapsburg Jaw ?
Think JK.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 02:57 GMT
You are welcome. Hope you spend longer next time.

Signature

Roy
DotSeaEh is .ca

| And a thousand thanks to Roy, Carolanne and their charming Molly!
StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT
> I hope you make it to the airport in one piece!
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks,
> dentaldoc

It went like a freight train. A lot of the gang there were old friends
and repeat course takers, so he went fast. I'll take a bit of time to
read over my notes and post the highlights. He definitely is sold on
some things and not on others, but he has real data to back up his
claims.

One quick thing: don't buy iBond. He's thinking of starting a class
action suit against the maker.
Thanks
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT
> Let us know what's new!
>
> Thanks,
> dentaldoc

One thing you can all do right now is look at his site: I think it's

www.adhesion.com.

Most of the photos are there, at least that's what he said yesterday.
Cheeahs
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Bill Combs - 26 Oct 2004 17:51 GMT
> > Let us know what's new!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Cheeahs
> SP

Thanks for the note. I'll be interested in what Bertolotti has to say
about the iBond -- these single-step adhesives are supposed to be the
wave of the future. If he's thinking lawsuit, I'd like to know what
problems he has encountered with the product.

- dentaldoc
 
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