Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2004
Goin' to Toronto
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StovePipe - 23 Oct 2004 03:52 GMT Seeing Ray Bertolotti on Sunday and I'm gonna learn him a thing or two about Adhesive Dentistry. ;-) Will be in touch with Roy Brown and I'll bring my camera and we can get a photo to plaster all over the Internet. Will post the highlights of that course (as I see them, of course...)
I'm going to take the plane from Montreal on Saturady (the 23rd of Oct) at 17h00 and to get to the big City (3hours away) I have to take my bucket of bolts on the highway. Any bets on whether I make it to the Mtl airport in one piece or not?
Cheeahs SP
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Bill Combs - 24 Oct 2004 02:10 GMT I hope you make it to the airport in one piece!
Bertolotti is always interesting and has a bucket of updates to give during his lectures. I'll be looking forward to seeing you post the highlights of the course. He's got to be one of the original bonding experts.
Let us know what's new!
Thanks, dentaldoc
> Seeing Ray Bertolotti on Sunday and I'm gonna learn him a thing or two > about Adhesive Dentistry. ;-) Will be in touch with Roy Brown and I'll [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cheeahs > SP Roy Brown - 24 Oct 2004 16:57 GMT Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the lecture this morning.
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
|I hope you make it to the airport in one piece! | [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] | > Cheeahs | > SP Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 17:17 GMT >Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, >sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the >lecture this morning. Which video did he watch the other 1/2 of the time?
Joel
StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT > >Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, > >sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Joel I slept. It was quite late. SP
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W_B - 24 Oct 2004 20:16 GMT >Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, >sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the >lecture this morning. Kewl.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr Steve - 25 Oct 2004 16:45 GMT So Molly made a new friend?
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, > sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > | > Cheeahs > | > SP StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:08 GMT > So Molly made a new friend? Absolutely! She is a big and sturdy dog, but never imposing and very outgoing personality. My kinda dog. She probably could sniff the scent of our rabbit as well. Cheeahs SP
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Dr. Steve - 28 Oct 2004 02:05 GMT >> So Molly made a new friend? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Cheeahs >SP Yes, Molly is a great friend. Did Roy tell you about the racoon in my yard while Molly was here?
I will bet you learned a lot while visiting Roy. Did you notice how clean his operatories are? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 02:55 GMT We never had time to get into the racoon story,
And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as promised.
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
| Yes, Molly is a great friend. Did Roy tell you about the racoon in my | yard while Molly was here? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | | Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. The Webby - 30 Oct 2004 04:44 GMT Nothing to do with your thread but just want to send a greeting to you, Roy. Hope you and family are doing fine.
Sabra
> We never had time to get into the racoon story, > > And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as > promised. Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 17:58 GMT Thanks Sabra, Considering we had to bring Molly in for orthopaedic surgery her other leg a couple of weeks back, we are all doing fine. And you and yours?
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
| Nothing to do with your thread but just want to send a greeting to you, | Roy. Hope you and family are doing fine. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | > And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as | > promised. StovePipe - 30 Oct 2004 08:10 GMT > We never had time to get into the racoon story, > > And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as > promised. I did notice how clean and orderly everything was at Roy's place, yes. It's amazing what an organized person can do with a small space. It's really too bad that Roy couldn't get a decent vacation this past summer. I couldn't do that. First they'd divorce me, then they'd dissect me, then they'd kill me; and in that order. Cheeahs SP
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Dr. Steve - 30 Oct 2004 15:57 GMT >We never had time to get into the racoon story, > >And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as >promised. But the treatment rooms still sparkled, right? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
StovePipe - 30 Oct 2004 18:04 GMT > >We never had time to get into the racoon story, > > > >And my lab was a disaster, having trouble finishing all the work as > >promised. > But the treatment rooms still sparkled, right? Absolutely. I would have no qualms what ever sitting in his chair SP
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StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT > Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, > sleeping and watching 1/2 of my Okeson video. I dropped him off at the > lecture this morning. And a thousand thanks to Roy, Carolanne and their charming Molly! They are really high-class people, and I was recieved in Fiver Star fashion. I couldn't have asked for better hosts. Roy drove half-way accross the sprawling city outskirts to get me there. We had a really good talk, and it's clear that Roy really knows his stuff. His charming wife Carolanne is a very good hostess as well, and between them, I was waited on like a king. Molly is getting better, and is clearly an intelligent as well as friendly dog.
I cannot thank them enough, and would reciprocate any time they want. Cheeahs SP
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Dr Steve - 25 Oct 2004 17:13 GMT Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics! I learn from him all the time.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> Stove Pipe made it OK. He spent the night at my place, eating, talking, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Cheeahs > SP StovePipe - 26 Oct 2004 04:02 GMT > Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics! I learn from > him all the time. That's more or less what I tol' him. He would be a great leader of his local group down there in T.O.... or even better a great prof. The only problem is that he'd have to put up with all them AH's that're there b/cs their lazy, etc. Ah well, maybe later when he's too old to cook a denture. Cheeahs SP
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Dr Steve - 26 Oct 2004 20:24 GMT I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area. I would probably have to refer all my denture cases to him. Too hard to do a better job than he does.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics! I learn from [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Cheeahs > SP StovePipe - 27 Oct 2004 00:32 GMT > I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area. I would > probably have to refer all my denture cases to him. Too hard to do a better > job than he does. Or, you'd have him working next to you or in your office and then he wouldn't have to put up with a lot of the riff-raff that he does now. Cheeahs SP
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Dr Steve - 27 Oct 2004 13:11 GMT If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any day.
 Signature ~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA ....................................................
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ......................
> >> I am sort of glad Roy is in Canada and not here in this area. I would [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cheeahs > SP StovePipe - 27 Oct 2004 14:38 GMT > If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any > day. There ya go, Roy.... ;-) SP
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W_B - 27 Oct 2004 23:26 GMT >If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any >day. If he was your 'in house' lab tech that would mean he just couldn't take impressions or extract teeth. The doctor of course would have to deliver the prosthesis and do the diagnosis.
ITYKWIM.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 03:14 GMT I think I do, you are all being too kind.
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
| >If we could get past licensing issues, I would offer him a spot here any | >day. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] | -- | W_B W_B - 30 Oct 2004 06:29 GMT >I think I do, you are all being too kind. You could do worse than teaming up with SM. Alot worse !!!
Considered it myself. Very seriously.
SM is a master. So are you, from what I hear from people whose' opinions that I respect. And I can tell you bro, that is very few indeed.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 30 Oct 2004 16:04 GMT >>I think I do, you are all being too kind. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >people whose' opinions that I respect. >And I can tell you bro, that is very few indeed. Hey, the three of us together!! .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 03:12 GMT Time for you to reciprocate Steve.
I've got Stove Pipes NTI case here, too bad we did not have the models when we were together.
The patient is prognathic. Missing upper centrals and laterals. Lower anteriors are over 6mm anterior to the most labial portion of the upper anterior ridge. They are proclined approx. 80 degrees from the plane of occlusion. They are widely spaced and uneven on the incisal edges.
My thoughts are to: Make a DE extend anteriorly from an acrylic palate and an acrylic stent on the lower anteriors levelling the plane while filling in the gaps to the cuspids but not covering the cuspids.
Any thoughts?
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
| Roy is kinda scary with respect to knowing his prosthetics! I learn from | him all the time. W_B - 30 Oct 2004 06:22 GMT >Time for you to reciprocate Steve. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Any thoughts? Well if you don't mind my input, sounds very reasonable.
Will the patient wear two devices ?
Have a couple of patients in this configuration. Existing mand. planes. I added the NTI. Neither patient is prognathic but this config works quite well.
'specially in the uneven realm.
Motor on bro,
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 31 Oct 2004 18:28 GMT >Time for you to reciprocate Steve. > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Any thoughts? Well, if the lower anterior diastema are wide, then we need to keep the DE from dropping between the teeth. If lateral range of motion is not *too* great, we could make a wider DE to make sure we can never wedge it between two teeth. If at all possible, I would adjust the lower incisal edges so that the DE would be able to ride across them from one side to the other without "bumps". If the NTI is worn all night and a little bit during the day, you could adjust incisal edges until you had a reasonable incisal plane for the DE to work on.
If the lateral range of motion is great, and the lower cuspids are going to contact the DE easily during lateral excursions, or the patient refused incisal recontouring, then I would add a lower NTI.
I think success rate in this individual would be better with the upper NTI hitting natural teeth. If the lower teeth are periodontally involved, then a lower NTI would come back into play as a removable night-time splint.
For the upper, making a stent type of appliance with a pair of ball clasps would probably work well. Add the DE to the anterior portion. Extend the DE out as far as needed to make it work. Again, a lower NTI might be beneficial as you would only have to extend the DE anteriorly enough to stay on the lower NTI. You could even add acrylic to the lingual of the lower NTI so that the DE would not have to extend out so far. As long as the stent-type appliance is retentive, I would consider drilling a bunch of holes through it for saliva and air flow. Just to keep the soft tissues from getting "soft".
This case would probably require bringing the patient back every week or so for the first few weeks to make sure he is complying with protocol and to make necessary adjustment. To gain any success at all, the patient has to wear all this stuff at night. I would insist the patient insert everything at least 3 hours before bed-time to make sure it feels moderately natural by the time he is trying to sleep.
Any chance that once the clenching is under control that a lower appliance could be made to pull the lower incisors more upright? .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA
Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 31 Oct 2004 18:45 GMT >You could even add >acrylic to the lingual of the lower NTI so that the DE would not have >to extend out so far One of the CC's I get is the inability to close the lips.
Usually can thin the facial enough to achive this.
That prognathic case is a bear.
Remember the Hapsburg Jaw ? Think JK.
-- W_B
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 30 Oct 2004 02:57 GMT You are welcome. Hope you spend longer next time.
 Signature Roy DotSeaEh is .ca
| And a thousand thanks to Roy, Carolanne and their charming Molly! StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT > I hope you make it to the airport in one piece! > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks, > dentaldoc It went like a freight train. A lot of the gang there were old friends and repeat course takers, so he went fast. I'll take a bit of time to read over my notes and post the highlights. He definitely is sold on some things and not on others, but he has real data to back up his claims.
One quick thing: don't buy iBond. He's thinking of starting a class action suit against the maker. Thanks SP
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StovePipe - 25 Oct 2004 17:00 GMT > Let us know what's new! > > Thanks, > dentaldoc One thing you can all do right now is look at his site: I think it's
www.adhesion.com.
Most of the photos are there, at least that's what he said yesterday. Cheeahs SP
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Bill Combs - 26 Oct 2004 17:51 GMT > > Let us know what's new! > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Cheeahs > SP Thanks for the note. I'll be interested in what Bertolotti has to say about the iBond -- these single-step adhesives are supposed to be the wave of the future. If he's thinking lawsuit, I'd like to know what problems he has encountered with the product.
- dentaldoc
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