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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2004

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Please Help...

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Timeless Classic - 19 Oct 2004 11:30 GMT
I've been having migraines since October 1981. In 2001 I had a problem
tooth pulled... and supporting my long-time suspision, I discovered
that the tooth's removal seemed to lessen the severity of my
migraines.

Just recently I had some work done on a wisdom tooth.  Novocaine
doesn't seem to work for me, so my new dentist had to use more drastic
measures for deadening. The procedure he performed was excruciating
and resulted in even more pain than the lack of deading originally
produced via novocaine.

It is two weeks later and I can't believe that this sh.t is happening
to me again... but I am experiencing yet another series of headaches
and jaw pain as a result of this man's dental work. Same office,
different dentist, as the last guy who caused me health problems. Can
somebody tell me if this is a goddamn conspiracy?
Vaughn Simon - 19 Oct 2004 12:27 GMT
> I've been having migraines since October 1981. In 2001 I had a problem
> tooth pulled... and supporting my long-time suspision, I discovered
> that the tooth's removal seemed to lessen the severity of my
> migraines.

    You seem to have figured out that your migraines have something to do
with your teeth, and you may well be right!  Start here
http://www.headacheprevention.com/ .  After you absorb that site, come back
here and ask your questions.

Vaughn
W_B - 19 Oct 2004 16:23 GMT
>> I've been having migraines since October 1981. In 2001 I had a problem
>> tooth pulled... and supporting my long-time suspision, I discovered
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Vaughn

Not to mention that Novocaine® hasn't been used for decades.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Vaughn Simon - 19 Oct 2004 17:09 GMT
> Not to mention that Novocaine? hasn't been used for decades.

    I gave the guy the benefit of the doubt, assumed it was an old post.

Vaughn
Dr Steve - 19 Oct 2004 14:26 GMT
Sounds more like you are a heavy clencher who exists just below the level of
sensitivity, and the stress of the recent treatment caused you clench a bit
harder and the symptoms re-appeared.  The earlier history of migraines
suggests strongly that you are a night-time (sleep) clencher.  I do not
offer any support for the dentist who treated you while you were in pain,
but I doubt very much anyone but yourself is responsible for the headaches.

Check out  www.headacheprevention.com

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> I've been having migraines since October 1981. In 2001 I had a problem
> tooth pulled... and supporting my long-time suspision, I discovered
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> different dentist, as the last guy who caused me health problems. Can
> somebody tell me if this is a goddamn conspiracy?
Timeless Classic - 19 Oct 2004 17:52 GMT
On Tue, Oct 19, 2004, 3:23pm (MDT+6) From: no_one@nowhere.net (W_B)
wrote:

> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:27:25 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
> <vaughnsimonHATESSPAM@att.net> wrote:

> > "Timeless Classic" <m.alison@merseymail.com> wrote in message:

> > > I've been having migraines since October 1981. In 2001 I had a
> > > problem tooth pulled... and supporting my long-time suspision,
> > > I discovered that the tooth's removal seemed to lessen the
> > > severity of my migraines.
          

> > You seem to have figured out that your migraines have something
> > to do with your teeth, and you may well be right! Start here
> > http://www.headacheprevention.com/ . After you absorb that site,
> > come back here and ask your questions.

Not even close.

> > Vaughn

> Not to mention that Novocaine® hasn't been used for decades.

You're right. I just got off the phone with Sandy Beaudoin, his
receptionist and she informed me that Dr. Selle used Lidocaine® during
both injections... including the x/tip.

It was the so-called x/tip, after he did a test drill on the side of
my wisdom tooth, that has resulted in my current problem. Does this
help?

> W_B

> Take out the G'RBAGE
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 19 Oct 2004 19:19 GMT
Not very likely.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004, 3:23pm (MDT+6) From: no_one@nowhere.net (W_B)
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>> Take out the G'RBAGE
>> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Steven Fawks - 19 Oct 2004 19:32 GMT
I have performed hundreds of Stabident injections (same basic technique
as the X-Tip) without complications.  Quite safe and effective.

Vaughn, et.al. are most likely correct.  You need to open your mind to
some things that you currently just don't understand, or you could just
keep having pain.  It's your choice.

Fawks

>>>You seem to have figured out that your migraines have something
>>>to do with your teeth, and you may well be right! Start here
>>>http://www.headacheprevention.com/ . After you absorb that site,
>>>come back here and ask your questions.
>
> Not even close.

> You're right. I just got off the phone with Sandy Beaudoin, his
> receptionist and she informed me that Dr. Selle used Lidocaine® during
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> my wisdom tooth, that has resulted in my current problem. Does this
> help?
Timeless Classic - 20 Oct 2004 14:16 GMT
Re: Please Help...  

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004, 6:56pm (MDT+6) From: no_one@nowhere.net (W_B)
wrote:

[...]

> I use the X-tip also, it is a way to deliver anesthetic into the
> bone resulting in quick and profound anesthesia.

> I think you need an NTI also.

Well... you're all wrong, because the migraines are the result of
having been poisoned, leaving me environmentally hypersensitive.

The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.

I have a theory about dentists. While most are in the business to
heal... SOME are there to sabotage our health and create work for
others in their own and other medical fields.
Your responses support that theory.

> W_B
Dr Steve - 20 Oct 2004 16:11 GMT
He forgot to post while still sober.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> Re: Please Help...
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
>> W_B
Adenosine - 20 Oct 2004 16:28 GMT
>He forgot to post while still sober.

That's never stopped me from posting on the Internet.

Adenosine
Timeless Classic - 21 Oct 2004 18:32 GMT
> He forgot to post while still sober.

What? No accusations of drugs, sex, and rock n' roll?

I'm not Rush Limbaugh... and I don't want to spawn a baker's dozen for
the Church with five wives and the family dog. I'm just a humble
country bumpkin sitting here drinking a cup o' joe while listening to
6 on XM.

> > Re: Please Help...
> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> >
> >> W_B
Adenosine - 21 Oct 2004 18:43 GMT
>> He forgot to post while still sober.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>country bumpkin sitting here drinking a cup o' joe while listening to
>6 on XM.

XM radio?

I never saw why you would pay for something you could get for free via
the internet.

Adenosine
Timeless Classic - 22 Oct 2004 02:17 GMT
[...]


> XM radio?
>
> I never saw why you would pay for something you could get for free via
> the internet.

How much are you paying to access the internet?

My needs are different than yours... and my XM goes wherever I go.

> Adenosine
Steven Fawks - 20 Oct 2004 18:07 GMT
You're full of poison alright.

AMF,
Fawks

> Well... you're all wrong, because the migraines are the result of
> having been poisoned, leaving me environmentally hypersensitive.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> others in their own and other medical fields.
> Your responses support that theory.
Vaughn Simon - 20 Oct 2004 18:11 GMT
> Re: Please Help...
>
> I have a theory about dentists. While most are in the business to
> heal... SOME are there to sabotage our health and create work for
> others in their own and other medical fields.
> Your responses support that theory.

    How so?  I am not even a dentist.

Later (actually, never)
Vaughn

> > W_B
W_B - 20 Oct 2004 19:55 GMT
>Re: Please Help...  
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Well... you're all wrong, because the migraines are the result of
>having been poisoned, leaving me environmentally hypersensitive.

MCS ? Ahhh, that explains much.

>The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
>neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.

Doubtful.

>I have a theory about dentists. While most are in the business to
>heal... SOME are there to sabotage our health and create work for
>others in their own and other medical fields.
>Your responses support that theory.

The wonderful thing about theories is that you don't need data to form them.

>> W_B

--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Jan - 20 Oct 2004 22:57 GMT
>Subject: Re: Please Help...
>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Doubtful.

Proven.

    Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous
system resulting in polyneuropathies (reduced sensory and motor nerve function)
and neuropsychological effects (visual alterations, sensory loss, stress)
(ATSDR 1989); these effects correlate to tissue levels of 20 to 40 µg/g.
Neuropsychological effects were also reported by Smith et al. (1970) for
occupational exposure to mercury levels of > 0.1 mg/m3. Mercury concentrations
below this value did not appear to cause observable effects. Kishi et al.
(1993) reported that neurobehavioral and motor function effects persisted in
ex-mercury miners more than 10 years after cessation of exposure.   
   
Mercury vapor from dental amalgams has been identified as a major source of
exposure to inorganic mercury in the general population (WHO 1991). An average
mercury dose from dental amalgams has been estimated to be only 4 to 5 µg
(Halbach 1995).   
   

1. Central nervous system and kidneys: Both the central nervous system and
kidneys are affected by inorganic mercury. The toxic effects may occur with
acute, subchronic, or chronic exposure depending on the exposure level and the
resulting body burden of mercury. Animal data suggest that the renal effects
may be immunologically mediated. The central nervous system, especially during
prenatal and postnatal development, is the primary target organ for methyl
mercury.   
   
3.4.2.1. Primary Target Organ(s)1. Central nervous system and peripheral
nervous system: The critical target organs for inhalation exposure to elemental
mercury vapor are the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system.
Joel M. Eichen - 21 Oct 2004 00:17 GMT
>Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous
>system resulting in polyneuropathies

Yes it MAY, and then again it possible it MAY NOT.

Joel
carabelli - 21 Oct 2004 00:44 GMT
"Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote ..................

>>>The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
>>>neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.
>>
>>Doubtful.
>
> Proven.

Timeless Classic never mentioned amalgam or mercury.  TC did  subsequently
mention w.nker in this thread - is that what confused you?

Thanks again Janny for living up to our expectations.

carabelli
Joel M. Eichen - 21 Oct 2004 00:50 GMT
>"Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote ..................
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Thanks again Janny for living up to our expectations.

Mercury fillings are best. You pour them in ....... Tell the patient
not to jog. LOWERS only.

Joel

>carabelli
W_B - 21 Oct 2004 01:17 GMT
>Timeless Classic never mentioned amalgam or mercury.  TC did  subsequently
>mention w.nker in this thread - is that what confused you?
>
>Thanks again Janny for living up to our expectations.
>
>carabelli

ITYM 'living down'

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Jan - 21 Oct 2004 02:15 GMT
>Subject: Re: Please Help...
>From: "carabelli" huerter@worldnet.att.net
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>>>The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
>>>>neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.

Nope, I sure didn't write that.

>>>>The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
>>>>neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.
>>>
>>>Doubtful.
>>
>> Proven.

>Timeless Classic never mentioned amalgam or mercury.  TC did  subsequently
>mention w.nker in this thread - is that what confused you?
>
>Thanks again Janny for living up to our expectations.

Ummm, Danny boy, get over your resentments., they are eating you alive and
causing you to make a further fool of yourself.

Try to follow along.

Ready??

1.

2.

3.

Subject: Re: Please Help...
From: jdrew63929@aol.com  (Jan)
Date: 10/20/2004 1:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20041020175726.24934.00003038@mb-m28.aol.com>

>Subject: Re: Please Help...
>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
>Doubtful.

Proven.

    Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous
system resulting in polyneuropathies (reduced sensory and motor nerve function)
and neuropsychological effects (visual alterations, sensory loss, stress)
(ATSDR 1989); these effects correlate to tissue levels of 20 to 40 µg/g.
Neuropsychological effects were also reported by Smith et al. (1970) for
occupational exposure to mercury levels of > 0.1 mg/m3. Mercury concentrations
below this value did not appear to cause observable effects. Kishi et al.
(1993) reported that neurobehavioral and motor function effects persisted in
ex-mercury miners more than 10 years after cessation of exposure.   
   
Mercury vapor from dental amalgams has been identified as a major source of
exposure to inorganic mercury in the general population (WHO 1991). An average
mercury dose from dental amalgams has been estimated to be only 4 to 5 µg
(Halbach 1995).   
   

1. Central nervous system and kidneys: Both the central nervous system and
kidneys are affected by inorganic mercury. The toxic effects may occur with
acute, subchronic, or chronic exposure depending on the exposure level and the
resulting body burden of mercury. Animal data suggest that the renal effects
may be immunologically mediated. The central nervous system, especially during
prenatal and postnatal development, is the primary target organ for methyl
mercury.   
   
3.4.2.1. Primary Target Organ(s)1. Central nervous system and peripheral
nervous system: The critical target organs for inhalation exposure to elemental
mercury vapor are the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system.
carabelli - 21 Oct 2004 03:38 GMT
> >Subject: Re: Please Help...
>>From: "carabelli" huerter@worldnet.att.net
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Nope, I sure didn't write that.

Of course not, look at the number of  >>, but you still don't understand
attributation and annotation - that is your problem

>>>>>The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
>>>>>neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Ummm, Danny boy, get over...........

try reading a post to the end before you get on the dentist bashing wagon.
Mercury and amalgam were not mentioned in this thread until you brought it
up.  Of course it's all about you isn't it.
And of course, thank you again for living up to our expectations.

carabelli
Timeless Classic - 22 Oct 2004 04:50 GMT
> "Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote ..................
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Timeless Classic never mentioned amalgam or mercury.  

You are correct. I never mentioned amalgam or mercury.

The poisoning was job-related and ingested. The dental work only
AMPLIFIED (intensified) the effects caused by the poisoning.

> carabelli
Jan - 22 Oct 2004 05:26 GMT
>Subject: Re: Please Help...
>From: m.alison@merseymail.com  (Timeless Classic)
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>
>> Timeless Classic never mentioned amalgam or mercury.  

Dan, being the dishonest despicalbe person, he is; purposely posted wrong..

Because his resentments caused by the lies he told has eaten him up.

The correct posting was:

Subject: Re: Please Help...
From: jdrew63929@aol.com  (Jan)
Date: 10/20/2004 1:57 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <20041020175726.24934.00003038@mb-m28.aol.com>

>Subject: Re: Please Help...
>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>Doubtful.

Proven.

    Low-level chronic exposures to mercury may affect the peripheral nervous
system resulting in polyneuropathies (reduced sensory and motor nerve function)
and neuropsychological effects (visual alterations, sensory loss, stress)
(ATSDR 1989); these effects correlate to tissue levels of 20 to 40 µg/g.
Neuropsychological effects were also reported by Smith et al. (1970) for
occupational exposure to mercury levels of > 0.1 mg/m3. Mercury concentrations
below this value did not appear to cause observable effects. Kishi et al.
(1993) reported that neurobehavioral and motor function effects persisted in
ex-mercury miners more than 10 years after cessation of exposure.   
   
Mercury vapor from dental amalgams has been identified as a major source of
exposure to inorganic mercury in the general population (WHO 1991). An average
mercury dose from dental amalgams has been estimated to be only 4 to 5 µg
(Halbach 1995).   
   

1. Central nervous system and kidneys: Both the central nervous system and
kidneys are affected by inorganic mercury. The toxic effects may occur with
acute, subchronic, or chronic exposure depending on the exposure level and the
resulting body burden of mercury. Animal data suggest that the renal effects
may be immunologically mediated. The central nervous system, especially during
prenatal and postnatal development, is the primary target organ for methyl
mercury.   
   
3.4.2.1. Primary Target Organ(s)1. Central nervous system and peripheral
nervous system: The critical target organs for inhalation exposure to elemental
mercury vapor are the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system.
Joel M. Eichen - 22 Oct 2004 13:35 GMT
>Dan, being the dishonest despicalbe person, he is; purposely posted wrong..
>
>Because his resentments caused by the lies he told has eaten him up.

Despic albe is a condition that has something to do with white.
carabelli - 22 Oct 2004 13:51 GMT
> >Subject: Re: Please Help...
> >From: m.alison@merseymail.com  (Timeless Classic)
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Because his resentments caused by the lies he told has eaten him
up............

Well sorry I lied.  I'm kind of busy today - I will let you inform TC that
the following quote must be a lie also.

TC wrote------"You are correct. I never mentioned amalgam or mercury.

The poisoning was job-related and ingested. The dental work only
AMPLIFIED (intensified) the effects caused by the poisoning."

carabelli

.
Timeless Classic - 03 Nov 2004 09:50 GMT
> > "Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote ..................
> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> > carabelli

After work done Oct. 6th, I am now experiencing pain that not only
affects the tooth worked on in my lower left jaw, but the pain has
been migrating. It is now affecting my upper jaw, neck, ear and glands
on the same side. Migraines are also still a problem. I am currently
getting up twice during the night after retiring to remedicate.

On Oct 27th I went back to get checked. The dentist took an x-ray to
make sure there was no infection. I checked out okay... and his
assistant informed me that people have been known to have these kinds
of problems for as long as 6 months after dental work has been
performed!!! Can this be true?

It is now the early morning hours of Nov. 3rd and I'm up waiting for
the pain to ebb after remedicating for the first time. I need a second
opinion because I am not willing to put up with this sh.t for 6
months!!!
Vaughn Simon - 03 Nov 2004 14:14 GMT
> It is now the early morning hours of Nov. 3rd and I'm up waiting for
> the pain to ebb after remedicating for the first time. I need a second
> opinion because I am not willing to put up with this sh.t for 6
> months!!!

    Earlier you wrote:
>> "I have a theory about dentists. While most are in the business to
>>heal... SOME are there to sabotage our health and create work for
>>others in their own and other medical fields.
>>Your responses support that theory."

    So why are you back?

Vaughn
Timeless Classic - 04 Nov 2004 12:22 GMT
> > It is now the early morning hours of Nov. 3rd and I'm up waiting for
> > the pain to ebb after remedicating for the first time. I need a second
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>      So why are you back?

Okay... I get it.

In another post far far away you wrote:

> " Fortunately, it does not appear that we are as "there" as we were
> 4 years ago.  That said, my best guess is that condolences are in
> order."

You're pissed because of the election results. You wouldn't happen to
be one of the dentists who worked on all the 9/11 hijackers, would
you?

> Vaughn
Dr Steve - 04 Nov 2004 14:07 GMT
Does TC live in Indiana and summer in Florida?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>> >
>> > It is now the early morning hours of Nov. 3rd and I'm up waiting for
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>> Vaughn
Dr Steve - 03 Nov 2004 15:53 GMT
NTI

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................
"Timeless Classic" <m.alison@merseymail.com> wrote in message

> After work done Oct. 6th, I am now experiencing pain that not only
> affects the tooth worked on in my lower left jaw, but the pain has
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> opinion because I am not willing to put up with this sh.t for 6
> months!!!
W_B - 03 Nov 2004 23:10 GMT
>NTI

Plus endo consult.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Adenosine - 03 Nov 2004 18:45 GMT
>After work done Oct. 6th, I am now experiencing pain that not only
>affects the tooth worked on in my lower left jaw, but the pain has
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>opinion because I am not willing to put up with this sh.t for 6
>months!!!

Did you have any restorations done? Maybe the bite on them is
incorrect.

I can tell you, from personal experience, that having a filling be a
tiny bit high can cause not only a huge amount of pain, but also make
the entire jaw sore from clenching on it all night!

Adenosine
Timeless Classic - 04 Nov 2004 11:47 GMT
> >After work done Oct. 6th, I am now experiencing pain that not only
> >affects the tooth worked on in my lower left jaw, but the pain has
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Did you have any restorations done? Maybe the bite on them is
> incorrect.


No restorations. My bite is fine.

> I can tell you, from personal experience, that having a filling be a
> tiny bit high can cause not only a huge amount of pain, but also make
> the entire jaw sore from clenching on it all night!



I do not clench, grind, whatever... I know this for a fact. And that
isn't answering my question. How long am I required to put up with the
pain?... and where do I go to remedy/counter the situation if it
refuses to subside? Another DDS? or an MD? I'm on medicaid... and I
depend on others for transportaion inside my community... and
travelling outside the community is not possible for me.

Now that you know my situation, does that spark a more realistic
response? Somehow I'm under the impression, that if I waltzed into
this group complaining about hemorrhoids, somebody would still be
recommending NTI. Pretty frustrating.

> Adenosine
Vaughn - 04 Nov 2004 12:14 GMT
> Somehow I'm under the impression, that if I waltzed into
> this group complaining about hemorrhoids, somebody would still be
> recommending NTI. Pretty frustrating.

    Strange that you should mention hemorrhoids...your responses continually
bring to mind the anal orfice.  If you want a reasonable answer, don't just
continually tell people that they are wrong and terminate the conversation, ask
them why the think what they think and then give more information if it seems
indicated.

Vaughn
W_B - 04 Nov 2004 21:53 GMT
>> Somehow I'm under the impression, that if I waltzed into
>> this group complaining about hemorrhoids, somebody would still be
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Vaughn

An NTI for sphincter clenching.  A novel concept !

15 pts. for Vaughn.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 04 Nov 2004 14:06 GMT
How does this person know he does not clench at night while sleeping?

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

>> >
>> >After work done Oct. 6th, I am now experiencing pain that not only
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>
>> Adenosine
Steven Fawks - 04 Nov 2004 14:52 GMT
> I do not clench, grind, whatever... I know this for a fact.

Obviously we can't examine you over the internet.  We don't know if
there is a problem in the tooth/teeth or if there is a parafunctional
problem (or both).

I can say that I've had many patients who claim not to clench their
teeth and have *multiple* signs that they do.  Once you go to sleep,
you haven't a clue as to what your jaw is doing.

Fawks
Joel M. Eichen - 04 Nov 2004 18:37 GMT
>> I do not clench, grind, whatever... I know this for a fact.
>
>Obviously we can't examine you over the internet.

There are a couple of groups especially for that purpose, but I can
assure you none of them are doctors, and none of the fee codes apply.

Oh wait a minute ,,, TEETH? Riught?

> We don't know if
>there is a problem in the tooth/teeth or if there is a parafunctional
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Fawks
Adenosine - 04 Nov 2004 18:49 GMT
<snip history>

>> Did you have any restorations done? Maybe the bite on them is
>> incorrect.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I do not clench, grind, whatever... I know this for a fact.

How? I didn't know I clenched at night until I got a temporary crown
made a bit too high. Then it hurt like hell. Many many people brux
asymptomatically. Have you actually had somebody look at you during
your sleep to determine if you teeth are together or not?

>And that
>isn't answering my question. How long am I required to put up with the
>pain?... and where do I go to remedy/counter the situation if it
>refuses to subside? Another DDS? or an MD? I'm on medicaid... and I
>depend on others for transportaion inside my community... and
>travelling outside the community is not possible for me.

If your problem is that your teeth hurt, and you don't think your
current DDS is helping you, why don't you go to another one?

>Now that you know my situation, does that spark a more realistic
>response? Somehow I'm under the impression, that if I waltzed into
>this group complaining about hemorrhoids, somebody would still be
>recommending NTI. Pretty frustrating.

If your hemorrhoids gave you a headache, that would be unusual!

The NTI is FDA approved to reduce migraine pain! Make a deal with your
dentist. Get the NTI made, and if it DOESN'T help, don't pay for it
(Stole this idea from the posts of the NTI creator himself on DT).

Or... you could go find a neuromuscular dentist. I'm sure you can find
at least one that would LOVE to do a full mouth reconstruction on you
to 'fix' your bite. Just realize that whether or not that kind of
solution works is still under debate.

Adenosine
W_B - 04 Nov 2004 21:54 GMT
>I do not clench, grind, whatever... I know this for a fact.

How do you monitor yourself for clenching when asleep ?

The fact is that you do not know this for a fact.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 03 Nov 2004 22:57 GMT
>It is now the early morning hours of Nov. 3rd and I'm up waiting for
>the pain to ebb after remedicating for the first time. I need a second
>opinion because I am not willing to put up with this sh.t for 6
>months!!!

You need an NTI (headachehope.com) and a consutation
with an endodontist.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Timeless Classic - 24 Oct 2004 02:12 GMT
[...]

> The tooth, before it was pulled in 2001, only AMPLIFIED the
> neurological ill effects caused by the poisoning.


[...]

The oral surgeon who pulled my tooth would not allow me to take the
tooth home as a souvenir. When I asked why, both he and his assistant
said that it was hazardous material.

So my question is this...

If it was classified as hazardous material after being pulled out of
my mouth... what was it classified as while it sat in my mouth for
twenty years?
Steven Bornfeld - 24 Oct 2004 03:47 GMT
> So my question is this...
>
> If it was classified as hazardous material after being pulled out of
> my mouth... what was it classified as while it sat in my mouth for
> twenty years?

    I shouldn't answer this, but I will.  It is classified as hazardous
waste because it is considered medical waste, not because there is a
filling in it.

Hope this helps,
Steve
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 04:40 GMT
>Subject: Re: Hazardous Material...
>From: Steven Bornfeld dentaltwinnospam@earthlink.net
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>Hope this helps,
>Steve

This filling is Hazardous.

It contains highly toxic mercury.

It lets off vapors.

It goes to every organ in the body.

It is ruinng the envirnment and getting in the food chain.

Dentists who still install it, don't care.

Jan
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:16 GMT
Mercury Amalgams:

Do you still have a mouth full of them?

by Ingri Cassel

After two of my dear friends were plagued with health problems that were only
minimized by natural healing programs, it was discovered that they were both
suffering from acute systemic mercury poisoning and the main source of this
insidious poison was in their mouth.

Both of these women have a mouthful of aging mercury amalgams. It has been
shown that mercury is continually released from mercury dental fillings in the
form of mercury vapor and abraded particles.

This process is further stimulated and can be increased as much as 15-fold by
simply chewing, brushing teeth, hot drinks and even swishing your mouth with a
solution of hydrogen peroxide (used to reduce dental plaque.)

What we have been lead to believe are “silver” dental amalgams actually
contain 48-55 percent mercury, 33-35 percent silver and various amounts of
copper, tin, zinc and other metals. For decades the American Dental Association
has steadfastly maintained that the mercury in dental amalgams is bound to the
other metals in such a way that the mercury could not possibly escape.

However the ADA's assumption was proven wrong in 1985 when two researchers
demonstrated that the air inside a mercury amalgam filled mouth continually
contained elemental mercury vapor, and the dynamic of chewing increased this
vapor level substantially.

Mercury is extremely poisonous, accumulating over time in the various tissues
of the body, particularly the brain and kidneys. Published research from two
scientists at Utah State University shows that mercury is more toxic than lead,
cadmium and even arsenic. Even world regulatory agencies such as the World
Health Organization (WHO) have stated that the smallest amount of mercury that
will not cause damage is unknown.

In fact, the WHO recently concluded that the daily intake of mercury from
amalgam dental fillings exceeded the combined daily intake of mercury derived
from air, water and food (including fish).

In human autopsy studies it has been found that there is a direct correlation
between the amount of mercury found in the brain and the number and surfaces of
mercury fillings in the mouth. Recent scientific research has shown high levels
of mercury in the brains of Alzheimer's disease victims. Furthermore,
laboratory studies of spinal fluid from both Lou Gehrig's disease and
Alzheimers's disease patients have confirmed the presence of high levels of
mercury that inhibit key brain detoxification systems.

Despite these findings, the American Dental Association and various agencies in
the U.S. government still support the use of mercury amalgam dental fillings.
They claim that they are safe based on 150 years of use and that there is no
scientific proof showing mercury exposure from dental fillings causes any known
disease.

“In 1988 scrap dental amalgam was declared a hazardous waste material by the
Environmental Protection Agency... Once a doctor removes an amalgam and places
it in a tray, it once again becomes a hazardous waste material. I ask the
reader -- what is it about the mouth that makes this same item non-toxic? Or is
it possible that the mouths of some 80 percent of Americans with amalgam
fillings are in actuality toxic waste dumps?” ~Sandra Denton, M.D., from The
Mercury Cover-Up in the June, 1989 edition of Health Consciousness magazine.

This well referenced article also brings up the fact that dentists have the
highest suicide and divorce rate among professionals. And dental personnel have
a higher spontaneous abortion rate, a higher incidence of premature labor and
infertility, and an elevated incidence of perinatal mortality. But how do we
know this is due to the constant low levels of mercury to which they are
exposed?

This brings us to the problem of detecting mercury toxicity in humans: The lack
of adequate diagnosis and testing available. Symptoms may vary due to
biochemical individuality. There are also different degrees of intoxication
from the same amount of mercury levels.

“Mary” had such high levels of mercury in her system that our dentist, Dr.
Armand DeFelice, told her that he had never seen such high levels of mercury in
a person that didn't have multiple sclerosis or some other debilitating
auto-immune disorder.

Some of the more common symptoms of mercury toxicity are anemia, anorexia,
chronically low body temperature, bronchitis, colitis, high blood pressure, low
blood sugar, irritability, fatigue, gingivitis, mouth sores, bleeding gums,
headaches, visual changes, insomnia, depression, stomach pains, allergic
reactions, joint pains, trembling and loss of appetite.

The problem is that most people have several of these health problems and would
not necessarily connect it to mercury poisoning. But with at least 85 percent
of the American population having mercury amalgams in their mouth, and most of
these having at least 10 mercury amalgam fillings, the mercury link to
ill-health becomes that much more obvious.

Another reason for concern is that for the past 20 years, the most popular
mercury filling has been the “high copper” amalgam that boasts 30 percent
copper. Scientific studies have proven that the new high copper fillings
release mercury (and copper) at a rate 50 times faster than the pre-1980
amalgams.

With all the media stories out now on the pervasiveness of mercury in our
environment, it is imperative that we look into our mouths since our fillings
will likely be the main source of our own mercury toxicity.

What is even more convincing is the stories of people who have had their
amalgams replaced with a more biocompatible composite. Chronic health problems
disappear and many claim there is a new level of clarity in their thinking that
they hadn't had.

But the system for removing and replacing amalgams is not a simple one. Often
the plastic composite materials used to replace the filling is nearly as toxic
to a chemically sensitive person as the mercury amalgam was.

According to Dr. DeFelice, there are over 150 different non-mercury composites
to choose from with only a fraction of them being biocompatible.

Also, the order in which the old fillings are removed is another aspect that
can create more hazards than health benefits initially. For some reason,
accepted but not totally clear, your body responds to the removal of the
fillings according to electrical charge.

Fillings are like little batteries and they generate electrical current. Some
teeth will read positive, and some negative when touched with an ammeter.
Evidently, whether the filling is pushing electrons from the filling up into
your brain, or pushing protons, it affects the body's own electrical system
when these are removed.

These are only two of the many reasons to go to a dentist who is thoroughly
trained in the art of amalgam removal. But what I consider the most important
reason to go to such a skilled dentist is the fact that they are clearly
dedicated to helping people get well through their profession.

Now that you know the deadly effects of mercury fillings and fluoride, deadly
substances that are backed by the American Dental Association, why trust and
support a dentist who uses these poisonous substances in his practice?

In a world of many options and choices, it is high time we make our choices
conscious ones.
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:18 GMT
is a sad tragedy that mercury is causing such health damage to so many people.

Sad because it is so reversible and easily avoidable -- IF you know where it is
and how it can affect you and your family

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Mercury Does Leak Out of Your Fillings

The ADA has said for the past 150 years that the mercury in amalgam is safe and
does not leak.

However, they no clinical studies were ever done and the FDA approved amalgam
under the "grandfather clause" Subsequent studies have shown this not to be
true.

Over ten years ago the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine published an
editorial (12 ) calling mercury fillings the chief source of mercury exposure
to the US population.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

American adults have over a 500 tons of toxic mercury poison stored in their
dental fillings.

One of my readers, Phil Ratte, was kind enough to perform the following
calculations:

An average filling contains an estimated 800 milligrams of amalgam, with the
average middle-aged adult having 8 fillings. The average North American adult
has 3.2 grams or mercury (8 fillings x 800 mg per filling x 50% of total
amalgam is mercury) of potential mercury vapor to go into the lungs, blood, and
brain from dental fillings alone -- an average of about three-millionths of a
gram a day -- this does not include the amount of mercury we take in from
vaccinations and from our food!

Earlier in the article is was stated that 78% of American adults have dental
fillings. If there are 200 million American adults that would mean that .78 x
200,000,000 would give us 156 million American adults with dental fillings. If
the average American adult has 8 fillings with 800 mg. of amalgam that gives us
3.2 grams of mercury (amalgams are 50% mercury) in their fillings per American
adult. 3.2 g x 28g/oz x 156 million = 17,828,571 ounces of mercury x 1/16
(ounces per pound) = 1,114,286 pounds of mercury or 557 tons of mercury stored
in our mouths

This appears to be a much bigger problem than the mercury from the burning of
coal.
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 11:31 GMT
> is a sad tragedy that mercury is causing such health damage to so many people.
>
>Sad because it is so reversible and easily avoidable -- IF you know where it is
>and how it can affect you and your family

American Board of Composite Testers Lobbying Company .........
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:21 GMT
Are "Silver" Dental Fillings Safe?
 
By Francesca Lyman

Anyone who has ever had a tooth cavity has probably seen a dentist who drilled
it and packed it with a "silver" filling. But how many patients know what's in
that silver? And whether it could have consequences for your health?

Could silver dental fillings be causing, or contributing to, health problems?
Holistic health advocates, environmentalists and a growing cadre of
"mercury-free" dentists fear amalgams emit dangerous levels of mercury,
stirring up a health controversy that goes back 150 years.

Scientists agree that when absorbed in high enough doses, mercury, in all its
chemical forms, can damage the brain, nervous system, kidneys and other organs,
especially in infants and children. But they differ on not only how much
mercury must be absorbed to cause adverse health effects, but also just how
much of the amalgam's mercury is absorbed by the human body to begin with.

Dental associations pooh-pooh alleged dangers. The ADA considers it "a safe,
affordable and durable material" that has been used for "more than 150 years
and during that time has established an extensively reviewed record of safety
and effectiveness."

ADA quotes the U.S. Public Health Service's 1993 report stating that amalgam
has no health consequences other than for a small percentage of people who
might be allergic to the metals.

Others, however, like Boyd Haley, a chemist at the University of Kentucky,
argue that it is harmful to more than just sensitive populations. Most people
with amalgam fillings get an unsafe dose of the heavy metal because mercury
vapor leaks continually from the fillings, says Haley, who recently testified
before Congress on mercury exposure in children.

Consumer groups argue, meanwhile, that dental patients ought to be told about
what's going into their mouths.

In June, a coalition of citizens' health and environmental groups filed suit
against the American Dental Association for allegedly deceiving consumers into
thinking amalgam fillings are made of silver, when in fact the major component
(about 50 percent, according to the suit) is mercury.

They also claim that the ADA has failed to disclose information regarding the
significant risk of harm associated with the fillings in order to promote the
continued use of amalgams, a product in which it has a financial stake as a
paid endorser.

"If mercury is so safe, why do they try to hide it?" says Charlie Brown, one of
the lawyers representing Consumers for Dental Choice (CDC), a plaintiff in the
suit. Brown notes that CDC has already succeeded in winning a state ruling that
requires the California state dental board to advise participating dentists to
tell their patients about the mercury content of amalgam fillings as well as
discuss with them any sensitivities and the potential for adverse reactions,
including suspected links to birth defects.

Although mercury has been known to be poisonous since ancient times, dentistry
associations claim that the mercury is tightly bound with other metals,
rendering it safe. Silver fillings usually contain a mix of silver, tin and
copper as well as zinc and other metals, according to the Journal of the
American Dental Association.

Mercury is essential to make the amalgam harden and adhere, says ADA spokesman
J. Rodney Mackert, professor of dentistry at the Medical College of Georgia and
an expert in materials science.

Tracking Mercury's Vapors

It wasn't commonly known that amalgam released mercury vapor until recently,
although the issue was raised more than a century ago. In 1985, Fritz
Lorscheider, a fetal physiologist, and Canadian dentist Murray Vimy showed that
mercury in amalgam continuously vaporizes; measuring mercury in the mouths of
46 people, they also found that the amount of vapor released from fillings rose
when the subjects chewed gum or brushed their teeth.

In 1990, the same scientists reported that studies on sheep using radioactively
tagged mercury revealed that the highly volatile and unpredictable element
travels to the gastrointestinal tract, kidney, liver and brain.

"Whether those [latter] studies are applicable to humans is a matter of serious
importance to public health," says Dr. Norman Braveman, a research
administrator at the National Institute of Dental and Craniofacial Research
(NIDCR), which has two studies underway on the subject.

At issue, he says, is what dose of mercury a typical patient gets in the
dentist's office, how much he is exposed to daily and potential health effects
that might arise from this dose. And there isn't much agreement on any of those
questions.

"There's no question that mercury is not healthy for us," says Vasken Aposhian,
a professor of cellular and molecular biology at the University of Arizona who
has studied how mercury acts on the body. How many amalgams you have makes a
big difference in terms of how much mercury your body's absorbing, he
maintains.

"Some people are hyper-sensitive to metals and can get very sick" from amounts
that others can safely handle, he says. "Most are at risk from multiple
exposures from fish, food and other sources."

At a Congressional hearing on the use of mercury in medicine last year,
Aposhian told legislators that Americans' greatest exposure to mercury is from
fillings - a serious threat, he says, because it can cross the placenta and
harm the developing nervous system of the fetus.

ADA, however, maintains that the amount of mercury that vaporizes from the
amalgam is trivial, and less significant than exposures in food, water and air.
"Yes," acknowledges ADA's Mackert, "mercury is a poison," and amalgams
vaporize, "something only recently discovered." But, he argues, "there is no
convincing evidence that the small amount of mercury vapor from amalgams has
any effect on humans."

Further, says Mackert, repeating the mantra of the ADA, "there have been no
studies conclusively linking mercury from dental amalgams with any diseases."

But concerns about possible effects "can't be dismissed," as the U.S. Public
Health Service noted. Studies show that people with more dental amalgam
fillings have higher levels of mercury in their bodies. And researchers at the
University of Calgary School of Medicine showed that mercury could be found in
the blood and tissues of pregnant mothers and their fetuses within a few days
after mercury fillings were placed.

Mercury in dental fillings has been linked to other adverse health effects.

Anne Summers, a microbiologist at the University of Georgia, for example, found
that mercury from fillings can inhibit the effectiveness of antibiotics.

Scientists at the Battelle Centers for Public Health Research and Evaluation in
Seattle linked exposure to mercury vapor from dental amalgam fillings to
central nervous system toxicity among dental personnel.

The Battelle team also found "convincing new evidence of adverse behavioral
effects associated with mercury exposures from amalgam fillings within the
range of that received by the general population." And researchers at the
Colorado State University, Department of Physiology, in Fort Collins, Colo.
have linked dental amalgam exposure to mental illness.

Haley and other scientists, including Vimy and Lorscheider, found in
experiments on rat brains that chronic inhalation of low-level mercury ã at
levels that simulate exposure to amalagam fillings ã can inhibit brain
chemistry, producing lesions similar to those in Alzheimer's diseased brains.
Mercury inhibits the efficiency of tubulin, a protein vital to brain cells,
they explain.

'Safe' For Human Use

Despite such studies, though, the National Institutes of Health, the U.S.
Public Health Service, and the World Health Organization have all concluded
that amalgams are safe enough to use. There is "no solid evidence of any harm
for millions of Americans who have these fillings," wrote the U.S. Public
Health Service, and "no persuasive reason to believe that avoiding amalgams or
having them removed will have a beneficial impact on health."

By contrast, Canada recently restricted the number of amalgams that could be
placed in children and pregnant women, following similar laws passed in Sweden,
Germany, the United Kingdom and other countries.

But having produced its new guidelines, the U.K. government then qualified that
it had no evidence that there was a risk from amalgam, complicating the issue
even further.

While the battle for reliable science rages, many dentists are switching away
from mercury. A 1995 survey of dentists found 8.7 percent wanting to ban
amalgam and 12.3 percent uncertain about its safety, according to a report
published in the March issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association.

Discussion Board Remembering how he had to dispose of his scrap amalgam as
hazardous waste, he says, "It's OK to place these in people's mouths yet it's
considered hazardous when you take it out. Go figure that one out."

Looking To The Future

Given amalgam's long track record, however, the government is hesitant to ban
it without greater evidence of harm to human health.

"If we ban this material," said NIDCR's Braveman, "what are our alternatives,
and will they do the job as well?"

For now, he says, two government-funded studies are tracking 1,000 children --
half with mercury amalgams, half with alternative materials -- for such traits
as behavior, intelligence, antibiotic resistance, immune function and memory.
The results, he says, will be available in about four years.

In the meantime, if you're concerned that you have a great many mercury
fillings, Bronte suggests checking yourself for symptoms of mercury toxicity
and having your fillings replaced with non-toxic materials.

"If your regular dentist really isn't familiar with these materials, you are
better off finding a dentist who is familiar with them," advises Bronte, who
went on to write "The Mercury in Your Mouth" after her health improved.

As more patients find out what's in mercury fillings, adds advocate Brown,
"more dentists will make it their business to know about the alternatives."

MSNBC July 11, 2001

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 11:31 GMT
>Are "Silver" Dental Fillings Safe?

YES, thanks for asking!

Joel
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:25 GMT
108th CONGRESS


1st Session

H. R. 1680
To prohibit after 2008 the introduction into interstate commerce of mercury
intended for use in a dental filling, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES



April 8, 2003

Ms. WATSON (for herself and Mr. BURTON of Indiana) introduced the following
bill; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

A BILL
To prohibit after 2008 the introduction into interstate commerce of mercury
intended for use in a dental filling, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States
of America in Congress assembled,


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.


This Act may be cited as the `Mercury in Dental Filling Disclosure and
Prohibition Act'.


SEC. 2. FINDINGS.


The Congress finds as follows:


(1) Mercury is a highly toxic element.


(2) A dental amalgam, commonly referred to as a `silver filling', consists of
43 to 54 percent mercury.


(3) Consumers may be deceived by the use of the term `silver' to describe a
dental amalgam, which contains substantially more mercury than silver.


(4) Dental amalgam may contain about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gram of mercury, depending
on the size of the filling.


(5) The mercury in a dental amalgam continually emits mercury vapors.


(6) Mercury toxicity is a retention toxicity that builds up over years of
exposure.


(7) The California Dental Association, by court order, is sending health
warnings about mercury fillings to California dental offices for posting by
March 9, 2003. The warnings are to read `NOTICE TO PATIENTS: PROPOSITION 65
WARNING: Dental Amalgam, used in many dental fillings, causes exposure to
mercury, a chemical known to the state of California to cause birth defects or
other reproductive harm'.


(8) According to certain scientific studies, Health Canada, and the Agency for
Toxic Substances and Disease Registry of the Public Health Service of the
Department of Health and Human Services, children and pregnant women are at
particular risk for exposure to mercury contained in dental amalgam.


(9) The United States Food and Drug Administration added Health Canada warnings
regarding mercury in dental amalgam to a consumer update issued on December 31,
2002.


(10) According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, the
mercury from amalgam goes through the placenta of pregnant women and through
the breast milk of lactating women, giving rise to health risks to an unborn
child or a baby.


(11) The Environmental Protection Agency considers removed amalgam filling and
extracted teeth containing amalgam material to be hazardous waste.


(12) A report issued June 5, 2002, by the Mercury Policy Project, the Sierra
Club, Health Care Without Harm, and the Toxics Action Center stated that
because of mercury fillings dental offices are now the leading source of
mercury in the Nation's wastewater.


(13) The use of mercury in any product being put into the body is opposed by
many health groups, such as the American Public Health Association, the
California Medical Association, and Health Care Without Harm.


(14) Consumers and parents have a right to know, in advance, the risks of
placing a product containing a substantial amount of mercury in their mouths or
the mouths of their children.


(15) Alternatives to mercury-based dental fillings exist, but many publicly and
privately financed health plans do not allow consumers to choose alternatives
to mercury amalgam.


SEC. 3. PROHIBITION ON INTRODUCTION OF DENTAL AMALGAM INTO INTERSTATE COMMERCE.


(a) PROHIBITION- Section 501 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21
U.S.C. 351) is amended by adding at the end the following:


`(j) Effective January 1, 2008, if it contains mercury intended for use in a
dental filling.'.


(b) TRANSITIONAL PROVISION- For purposes of the Federal Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.), effective December 31, 2004, and subject
to subsection (a), a device that contains mercury intended for use in a dental
filling shall be considered to be misbranded, unless it bears a label that
provides as follows: `Dental amalgam contains approximately 50 percent mercury,
a highly toxic element. Such product should not be administered to children
less than 18 years of age, pregnant women, or lactating women. Such product
should not be administered to any consumer without a warning that the product
contains mercury, which is a highly toxic element, and therefore poses health
risks.'.
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:29 GMT
Dental Mercury Disposal
Metal Detoxification The Scientific Case Against Amalgam Homocysteine Redox
Find A Mercury-Free Dentist Truth Decay Book
...if they have as few as 4 amalgam fillings present in their mouth, the
average person's saliva is so high in mercury they cannot legally spit into the
toilet. Their saliva exceeds the EPA maximum legal municipal discharge standard
for mercury..--David Kennedy D.D.S.

Mercury is a persistent, bioaccumulative toxin that poses a risk to human
health, wildlife and the environment. While there has been considerable public
debate about the potential health effects of mercury fillings, little attention
has been focused thus far on the disposal of waste dental mercury. While
mercury is a naturally occurring metallic element, human activities--including
the use of dental fillings--contribute 70% of emissions into the environment.
Levels of mercury in the environment have increased dramatically, with a
twenty-fold increase over the past 270 years. Today, dentists are the third
largest user of mercury in the U.S., consuming over 40 metric tons of mercury
annually with most eventually released into the environment. In 1993, it was
estimated that 150 million amalgam restorations were placed in the USA,
weighing over 75 tons, by 175,000 U.S. dentists, and that there are 22 billion
existing amalgam restorations that will eventually have to be removed,
according to the A.D.A. The average dentist's office produces up to a kilogram
of mercury waste every year, according to estimates. Environment Canada says it
all adds up to about two tons of toxic material--the same amount that
coal-fired power plants spew into the air.

The name "mercury-free dentist" is misleading. The so-called mercury free
dentist releases enough mercury in one day to contaminate a 22,000-acre lake to
above acceptable discharge levels. The largest single source of dental mercury
released into the environment comes from the removal of existing amalgams from
patients during dental procedures (replacement fillings, crowns, extractions,
etc). Extracted amalgam materials are either rinsed down the drain--usually to
a municipal wastewater system (or septic system) where it can build up in
sewage sludge--deposited in biomedical waste containers destined for waste
incineration or autoclaves, or placed in the trash that is later disposed in
municipal waste landfills or incinerators. It is estimated when an amalgam is
prepared for a filling, 10% is leftover and is often simply discarded. The
"over-pack" portion is either drawn into the dental clinic's waste vacuum
system or is expelled by the patient into a chair side cuspidor. But the
majority of dental mercury waste is discarded into wastewater systems.

Dental clinics remain largely unregulated for mercury disposal and extracted
amalgam materials are often rinsed down the drain, usually to a municipal
wastewater system or septic systems, deposited in biomedical waste containers
destined for waste incineration, or placed in trash disposed in a municipal
waste landfill or incinerator. The American Dental Association (ADA), as well
as many state dental associations, have refrained from promoting, and have even
opposed mercury reduction efforts. Following the lead of the ADA, the U.S.
dental establishment has consistently resisted efforts to reduce releases of
mercury and follow suit with the rest of the health care establishment. The ADA
refuses to encourage its members to assume responsibility for curtailing dental
mercury pollution, opting instead to obstruct initiative at the state and local
levels. Many countries, especially in Western Europe and Canada--and a small,
but growing number of local and state governments in the U.S.--now recognize
dental mercury waste as a serious environmental pollutant and are enacting both
voluntary guidelines and stringent policies to curtail its release.

Studies by EPA and numerous municipalities document that most municipal
wastewater treatment plants have high levels of mercury with significant
contributions from dental clinics. Recently, the Association of Metropolitan
Sewerage Agencies (AMSA) evaluated seven major municipal wastewater treatment
plants (WWTPs) to determine and quantify sources of mercury coming into these
facilities. AT all plants, dental uses were identified as "by far" the greatest
contributors to the mercury-load, accounting on average for 40% of the load,
more than three times the next largest source.

There is little debate that municipal wastewater treatment systems are not
designed to treat hazardous waste or reduce mercury loadings to the
environment. Consequently, all mercury in the influent wastewater remains
unattenuated in municipal treatment plants, and either settles out in the grit
chamber or residuals (sludge, or biosolids), or passes through the system to be
discharged into a downstream lake, river or ocean along with the "treated"
effluent. Moreover, conditions at certain points within the wastewater
treatment process are perhaps favorable for promoting methylation of mercury
within the wastewater or sludge. This has the effect of converting a portion of
the influent mercury into its more toxic, organic form (methyl mercury), which
is also highly soluble and able to pass through the facility to the receiving
water body.

Mercury amalgam particles that drop out of wastewater in the grit chamber (the
initial coarse settling chamber at the front end of a treatment plant), are
most commonly landfilled along with all other filtered materials. The residual
sludge, which is the primary byproduct of the treatment process, is frequently
incinerated. Incineration releases the mercury directly into the atmosphere as
mercury vapor.

Studies indicate that as much as 95% of the mercury load to the treatment
plants is released to the atmosphere during sludge incineration, with the
balance discharged to a body of water or landfilled. When not landfilled or
incinerated, biosolids are used in fertilizers or other soil additives.
Agricultural sludge application can lead to mercury contaminated soil and
groundwater, as well as direct volatilization to the atmosphere. Regulations
for land application of sludge in the U.S. are far less restrictive for mercury
and other heavy metals than many other countries. This practice has not been
thoroughly studied and is further hindered by the fact that both state and
federal agencies responsible for regulating sludge-spreading are also often
responsible for promoting it.

Mercury In Traps, Drains, and Sewer Pipes
Following years of use, the plumbing in dental offices can become significantly
laden with dental amalgam. Studies show that high levels of mercury are
accumulating in sewer pipes from dental offices, presenting potential liability
concerns to land owners. Amalgam particles trapped in dental office plumbing
and drainage pipes have been found to provide a continuing source of dissolved
mercury to wastewater over time. The slow dissolution of mercury amalgam in
dental office plumbing, as well as in the municipal sewer system, serves as a
long-term source of mercury to the receiving facility and is eventually
released to the environment.

Mercury In Septic Systems
Where no publicly operated treatment works exist, dental clinics frequently
rely on septic systems for wastewater disposal. Similar to municipal treatment
plants, the potential for methylation exists in the anaerobic environment of a
septic tank, which can lead to the production and discharge of methyl mercury
at private disposal fields. At these locations, the mercury path to the
environment is more direct and the soils and groundwater surrounding the drain
fields of these systems can become contaminated with mercury. Significant
levels of mercury contamination have been detected both within septic tanks as
well as adjacent to, and downgradient from, disposal fields receiving
wastewater from dental clinics. The drain fields of septic systems receiving
dental wastewater have the potential to serve as point sources of mercury
contamination to the underlying and adjacent soils and groundwater, and may
potentially convey environmental liability on to the property owner, and/or
wastewater generator.

Solid Waste
Mercury-bearing scrap amalgam is often discarded into the trash and leaves the
dental office by solid waste hauler and is either landfilled or incinerated.
The mercury in amalgam disposed in a landfill may break down over time and
co-mingle with landfill leachate. Depending on the landfill, mercury may enter
groundwater, contaminate underlying soils, volatilize into the vapor phase and
dissipate to the atmosphere or, when landfill leachate is sent to a wastewater
treatment plant, is taken up in sewage sludge that is either re-landfilled or
distributed. Also, formulation and release of methane gas from landfilled
mercury may contribute to production of mercury emissions within the landfill.

Biomedical Waste Incineration/Sterilization
Waste dental mercury is often disposed into the biomedical waste container. A
recent survey found that 25 to 30 percent of dentists place their contact
amalgam wastes into biomedical "red bags" that are often incinerated. Medical
waste is a special type of regulated waste due to the potential presence of
bacteria and pathogens, which is separated and handled differently from other
solid wastes. If any amalgam has come in contact with the mouth or has been
removed from or with teeth, it is considered contact amalgam and is often
discarded into biomedial waste. So-called "red-bag" waste is often sent to a
medical waste incinerator, where the mercury is vaporized into the atmosphere.
Some handlers of biomedical waste sterilize it with high temperature and
pressure steam in a process known as "autoclaving." Oftentimes, these
facilities operate with no emission controls or standards, which result in
mercury vapor releases, and discharge of effluent to the local wastewater
system following sterilization. The residuals from this process are landfilled.

Recycling
A small but increasing number of dental clinics are beginning to have their
mercury recycled. Where collection systems are in place, approximately 60% of
all mercury-bearing amalgam waste is captured in coarse filters at chairside,
and 95% or more of the mercury can be cost-effectively captured when an amalgam
separator is added to the system. These programs are, in general, effective and
require only a modest shift in practices, and add a very minor increase in
operating expense. According to recent estimates, an amalgam separator unit
capable of removing both particulates and dissolved mercury can be operated for
between $47.95 - $100.00 per month.

Human Wastes
Amalgam has been determined to be the primary source of mercury in human waste.
After releases from dental offices, human wastes are the next greatest
contributor of dental mercury to waste water treatment plants. In addition,
amalgam fillings are responsible for additional environmental releases of
mercury at the end of life. Each cremation in the U.S. accounts for, on
average, one gram of mercury, due to vaporization of mercury contained in
dental amalgam fillings, being released into the atmosphere.

Solution
It costs less than $50.00 a month, about the cost of placing a single filling
to remove and recycle mercury from amalgams. However, only a small percentage
of dentists nationwide have taken the steps necessary to reduce use and release
of this dangerous toxin. Clearly, the time has come for U.S. dental
associations--as other health care industry associations are already doing--to
embrace the fundamental credo of "first do no harm," by taking responsibility
to reduce amalgam use and mercury pollution. Environmentally responsible dental
clinics reduce the use of mercury where feasible, employ best management
practices and operate amalgam separators to get the highest capture rates of
dental mercury. This approach protects human health and the environment while
requiring only a modest, compact, and available shift in clinical practices and
expenses.

The MAXIMUM Separation System is a dental amalgam separator that removes dental
amalgam, thus removing mercury from dental wastewater before it is discharged
into the public sewer system and the environment. A cost effective way for
small and large dental offices and institutions to manage their amalgam waste
is pollution reduction at the source with the use of the MAXIMUM Separation
System. It has been certified to ISO 11143 standard. It can be retrofitted into
existing dental vacuum systems. It is located BEFORE the vacuum pump, thus
removing the amalgam waste before it is agitated by the vacuum pump impellers.
This decreases the release of mercury and reduces wear on the pump.
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 06:40 GMT
#01N-0067 FDA Proposal FOR mercury dental fillings

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:

Regarding the recent developments in the debate over mercury containing
fillings, it is the position of the professional pharmacists and staff at
Johnson Drugs, that the FDA’s position is CONTRARY to the good and safe
practices of medicine as set by the FDA and is further CONTRARY to recent
legislation/policies regarding mercury in the environment and in food.

In the past year, the FDA has made bold statements about ending the use of
mercury in childhood vaccinations (contact lenses and thermometers), and
warnings to pregnant women about mercury in fish. The EPA also has policies
that reduce mercury at its sources… treating dental fillings as HAZARDOUS
WASTE. We have participated in the Massachusetts Mercury Thermometer Exchange.

The most obvious flaw in the FDA’s position is the decision to use an
advisory committee that met 7 years ago; long before recent FDA and other
governmental regulations and policies were made. This has allowed the FDA to
IGNORE these recent recommendations, policies and regulations and go forth in
recommending the continued use of mercury amalgam dental filings.

Peer reviewed studies (see Haley, Lorscheider, Vimy, Summers, Aposhian, Chang
etc.), the Health Canada report (1996), as well as the manufacturer Dentsply
(1997) recommend no mercury fillings in children, and go as far as CONDEMN
their use. The American Pediatric Medical Assoc. position statement asks for
its physicians to recommend mercury-free dentists to their patients.

Announced in November of last year and widely publicized in dental journals,
the Watson-Burton Bill (H.R. 4163) with its 6 co-sponsors would abolish mercury
dental fillings altogether by 2007. This bill would give health warnings to all
those considering mercury amalgam fillings and would immediately stop the use
in children, pregnant women, and nursing mothers.

The FDA, who is currently without a commissioner, has stated that during this
transition period only those regulations requiring "urgency" should be acted
upon. The only parties seeking urgency in this case are the ADA and the mercury
manufacturers.

This issue should wait for the appointment of a new commissioner and be
re-reviewed by an advisory panel as soon as possible. Too much time has passed:
new policies, discoveries, and regulations have been applied, and to say that
mercury is safe as an amalgam filling would be MALPRACTICE.

Mercury is UNSAFE, it is considered a hazardous waste and has been removed from
products we use every day, as well as the environment we live in. It is treated
as hazardous waste before and after it is used in your mouth. How can we be
expected to believe that a hazardous waste is considered safe nowhere but in
our mouths?

We urge you, professionals and consumers alike, to make your opposition heard.
chris mankeyh - 24 Oct 2004 16:31 GMT
> #01N-0067 FDA Proposal FOR mercury dental fillings
>
[quoted text clipped - 47 lines]
>
> We urge you, professionals and consumers alike, to make your opposition heard.

Ranting moronic bitch!
Vaughn - 24 Oct 2004 17:01 GMT
.

>  Ranting moronic bitch!

   Then why did you find it necessary to repeat the entire rant?

Vaughn
Adenosine - 24 Oct 2004 18:24 GMT
>.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Vaughn

I like seeing three or four or five '>'s for a few hundred lines
before I get to read the reply.

Adenosine
John Chewter - 24 Oct 2004 19:38 GMT
Following Jan's example

> .
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Vaughn
W_B - 24 Oct 2004 20:16 GMT
Indeed.

>Following Jan's example
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>> Vaughn

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 24 Oct 2004 20:14 GMT
>.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Vaughn

Suffers from the same affliction.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 11:30 GMT
>This filling is Hazardous.
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
>Jan

Dental humor!

Thanks for the laugh.

Joel
Joel M. Eichen - 24 Oct 2004 11:29 GMT
>> So my question is this...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>waste because it is considered medical waste, not because there is a
>filling in it.

Great minds ..... .well you know!

Joel

>Hope this helps,
>Steve
W_B - 24 Oct 2004 20:15 GMT
>>    I shouldn't answer this, but I will.  It is classified as hazardous
>>waste because it is considered medical waste, not because there is a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Joel

Yep, just said the same thing.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Jan - 24 Oct 2004 03:51 GMT
>Subject: Hazardous Material...
>From: m.alison@merseymail.com  (Timeless Classic)
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>my mouth... what was it classified as while it sat in my mouth for
>twenty years?

A point I have covered.

Mercury is dangerous BEFORE it goes IN the mouth and dangerous the minute it
come OUT.

Anyone who claims the only safe place for mercury is in the mouth, is a fool.

Just where in *mid air* did it suddenly become dangerous again?

FACT is, it was and is DANGEROUS in the mouth.

Jan

IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!

NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metal
in the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.

I did, it saved my life.

Mercury is Poisonous.

There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.

The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the
other sources together.

U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.

Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such as
chlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronic
devices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected by
condensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.

***The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount of
mercury
in the environment *****

http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm

17. DENTAL AMALGAM

Dental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPA
regulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for
its disposal.
Dr Steve - 26 Oct 2004 18:11 GMT
Hi Jan,

I am trying to catch up from the weekend.  Did you get a chance to clear up
my confusion over the Holistic dentist issue yet?  I am reading oldest to
newest and have only gotten this far (I do occasionally cheat and read the
very newest post).  <grin>

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conver