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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2004Fluoride concentration in ACT mouthwash vs. toothpaste??
Why can't I just swoosh toothpaste around in my mouth for a minute, in lieu of buying ACT mouth wash? Am I not mistaken in thinking toothpaste has a lot higher concentration of fluoride....? wrong  Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > Why can't I just swoosh toothpaste around in my mouth for a minute, in > lieu of buying ACT mouth wash? Am I not mistaken in thinking > toothpaste has a lot higher concentration of fluoride....? >wrong Yeah, that was real useful. Act mouthwash: sodium fluoride .05% Colgate Total: .24% Care to expand on that....? >>wrong > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Care to expand on that....? Nope. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com If you have already made up your mind, why bother asking us? Do as you please. Put away some money for dental treatment though. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>wrong [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Care to expand on that....? >If you have already made up your mind, why bother asking us? Do as you >please. Put away some money for dental treatment though. What the fark is wrong with you? I'm asking a question that seems reasonable enough, and you're acting like a jerk. >>If you have already made up your mind, why bother asking us? Do as you >>please. Put away some money for dental treatment though. > >What the fark is wrong with you? I'm asking a question that seems >reasonable enough, and you're acting like a jerk. Don't let the locals scare you off! Lots of people come here to confirm what they already think instead of asking for and using advice. I imagine that it would make one a bit jaded after a while. My question is, how do you plan to 'swish' toothpaste around? It doesn't seem like it has the necessary viscosity. It's not like ACT mouthwash is exceptionally expensive, especially if you used the same VOLUME of toothpaste as you would mouthwash. Just the thought of swishing around a few fluid ounces of toothpaste is enough to make me gag. Adenosine Hey Adenosine, You seem like a noble and sincere person. Thank you for hanging around here. The poster reminds me of a "Troll". Hopefully I got the wrong impression and I hope to have the need to apologize for thinking that. A question was asked if swishing toothpaste would have the same effect as purpose designed fluoride rinses since toothpaste has more fluoride (by percentage of volume). I replied "NO" and was treated rudely for [what seemed to be] not saying what he/she expected to hear. That either implies that the poster had already decided that it has to be just as good or better than using ACT, and that anyone replying differently is wrong. Next, this person will call me a liar. <G> ~~~~~~~~~~ Jerk??? I like that, thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~ Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>>If you have already made up your mind, why bother asking us? Do as you [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Adenosine >Hey Adenosine, > >You seem like a noble and sincere person. Thank you for hanging around >here. Thank you for the kind words! >The poster reminds me of a "Troll". Hopefully I got the wrong impression >and I hope to have the need to apologize for thinking that. Sometimes you have to put on asbestos socks and feed the trolls. I've known a lot of people who were just new to the Internet that asked a bunch of stupid questions, and in general acted like a troll, but it turned out it was sheer ignorance. >A question was asked if swishing toothpaste would have the same effect as >purpose designed fluoride rinses since toothpaste has more fluoride (by [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Jerk??? I like that, thanks. >~~~~~~~~~~ Maybe it's my newocity to usenet, but if the same initial dialogue happened on IRC, I would just assume a clueless newbie and explain slowly and carefully one time. After the first time, they can bother somebody else! Adenosine Some people only post so someone else can have the opportunity to tell them "Yes you are very right! The rest of the world is stupid." You get tired of games. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >>Hey Adenosine, [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Adenosine >Some people only post so someone else can have the opportunity to tell them >"Yes you are very right! The rest of the world is stupid." You get tired of >games. This is true. Whenever Jan Drew posts, all we can say is .... "Yes you are so right ...." YEAH! >A question was asked if swishing toothpaste would have the same effect as >purpose designed fluoride rinses since toothpaste has more fluoride (by >percentage of volume). I replied "NO" and was treated rudely for [what No, you replied by saying "wrong", which actually isn't an answer but just a rude remark. Particularly since it wasn't qualified by any sort of additional information. What the fark do you expect? If you ask someone for information in public, like "if I take this blue taxi will I be able to get to my destination the same as I take the yellow?" - a seemingly sensible question - and a person just goes "wrong!" - with no other explanation - you would likely be agitated as well. >that the poster had already decided that it has to be just as good or better Look here Mr. Pretense, YOU have already decided what *I* am thinking, when in reality you have no basis for assuming to know *what* I'm thinking. I was asking what (again) appears to be a STRAIGHT FORWARD AND SENSIBLE question, and you want "wrong" to be a satisfactory answer as if it's a voice from on high that shouldn't be questioned. WRONG. >than using ACT, and that anyone replying differently is wrong. Ok, again... WHY would it not be as good as using ACT, if it has a higher flouride concentration? >person will call me a liar. <G> No, but I will call you a reflexively pompous jerk. Again, for anyone who has a coherent answer for me: if I can apply toothpaste, which has a higher concentration of flouride than ACT mouthwash, for an equivalent length of time, would this be as good as using ACT? If not, *why* not? ..And no, just saying "wrong" isn't an answer.... "Does swishing toothpaste have the same effect as purpose designed flouride rinses since toothpaste has more fluoride " Not a dentist, but did try that method of swishing fluoride toothpaste. It mottled the teeth, producing large circled areas of discoloration. Stopped the toothpaste rinses and mottling disappeared. There are fluoride rinses bought in Walgreen drug stores, or probably elsewhere, (color green) that hygienist recommends using for swishing the mouth for one minute after brushing. Not sure, but they may appear to tend to make the teeth yellow. But still better than the toothpaste, which I would not recommend at all. Not a dentist, just the opinion of a layperson. Gail Michael Well. fluoride uptake by enamel differs by concentration of the fluoride, by acidity of the delivery medium, by what compound form the fluoride is manufactured in, by the ability of the delivery medium to "wet" a smooth surface, by the ability of the delivery medium to penetrate into deep grooves and pits, by the ability of the delivery medium to "wet" the surface between two teeth. Then, there is a potential issue of interaction between dentifrice abrasive and the fluoride formulation. There was a problem with this years ago and Crest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the fluoride ions interacting with the diametacious (sp?) earth abrasive. Tooth paste fluoride is designed to penetrate to the depth at which the abrasive will interact with, while rinses are designed to penetrate deeper. Toothpaste has higher fluoride concentrations than rinses because the fluoride has to compete with many more ingredients. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > "Does swishing toothpaste have the same effect as purpose designed > flouride [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Gail Michael >rest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the >fluoride ions interacting with the diametacious (sp?) earth abrasive. SnFl ? SnF --> Tin Fluoride ? diatomaceous (sp?) -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>rest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the >>fluoride ions interacting with the diametacious (sp?) earth abrasive. > >SnFl ? > >SnF --> Tin Fluoride ? It was the basis for the plot for the movie, "Pushing Tin." >diatomaceous (sp?) > >rest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the > >fluoride ions interacting with the diametacious (sp?) earth abrasive. > > SnFl ? > > SnF --> Tin Fluoride ? SnF2 - Stannous (=Tin-II-)Fluoride SnF4 - Stannic (=Tin-IV-) Fluoride Both are "tin" fluorides. > diatomaceous (sp?) Yup. -- Peter Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- I remember when MFP came out. Crest discovered that the stannous FL reacted with diatomaceous earth and switched the formula. All the generic toothpaste at the local drug store and grocery store were re-packaged stannous fluoride Crest for the next 4-5 years. You could tell what it was by reading the ingredients and comparing. I thought it interesting that Crest had enough dentifrice already in vats that it took two chains years to sell it off in generic wrappers. Crest knew the fluoride formula was not "as good", but freely sold off what was left rather than dispose of it. Of course, disposing of vats full of dentifrice would be classified as hazardous waste and would cost a fortune to dispose of. Much cheaper to put it in some one else's wrapper and distribute it for them. Signature~+--~+--~+--~+--~+-- Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA .................................................... This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only. Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect your health. ...................... > >> >rest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Peter > I remember when MFP came out. Crest discovered that the stannous FL reacted > with diatomaceous earth and switched the formula. All the generic [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hazardous waste and would cost a fortune to dispose of. Much cheaper to put > it in some one else's wrapper and distribute it for them. Thank you for the contribution. Do you know when that was, or do you possibly have a reference at hand? I read somewhere that Procter & Gamble switched to MFP because the stannous fluoride caused some bad discoloration of the teeth. Anyway, it is interesting that Procter and Gamble had the discoverer of MFP at their hand (Dr. Willy Lange) but was reluctant to use that stuff in toothpaste even after the Rochester guys (Hodge, Hein, Shourie) found it possibly useful for that purpose. There was also some opposition from people in the "house that Crest built" at Indiana University: Muhler and Co. claimed that MFP was ineffective against caries in their lab rats. (For those interested: I posted a history of MFP at my homepage given below.) Peter Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- >> I remember when MFP came out. Crest discovered that the stannous FL reacted >> with diatomaceous earth and switched the formula. All the generic [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Peter Sorry, I would have to go into the bad of the attic and search old notes. this was going on when I was still in DS. The switch to MFP was due to the other formula interacting wit the abrasive. At least that of what we were taught. .. Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S. Troy, Michigan, USA Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting. Dr. Steve, > Sorry, I would have to go into the bad of the attic and search old > notes. this was going on when I was still in DS. The switch to MFP > was due to the other formula interacting wit the abrasive. At least > that of what we were taught. Thanks anyway. So I will have to look what I can find ... Peter Signature-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-: --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm --- ---------------------------------------------------- >> >rest had to change from SnFl to MFP to avoid the >> >fluoride ions interacting with the diametacious (sp?) earth abrasive. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Peter TIN??? Would that be metal?? As in metal in the mouth???? JANster. Where are you (with youir little links). >Well. fluoride uptake by enamel differs by concentration of the fluoride, by >acidity of the delivery medium, by what compound form the fluoride is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Toothpaste has higher fluoride concentrations than rinses because the >fluoride has to compete with many more ingredients. Thanks, that was interesting and what I was looking for. >>My question is, how do you plan to 'swish' toothpaste around? It I don't neccessarily see a need to "swish" it around - if I'm supposed to swish ACT around for a minute, I would think that just applying toothpaste to my teeth for a minute would expose them to more flouride in the same amount of time? If not, *I do not see the reason*, which is why I'm asking here. >mouthwash is exceptionally expensive, especially if you used the same >VOLUME of toothpaste as you would mouthwash. Just the thought of I dunno, I would think I could quite liberally apply say a tooth brush-head size amount directly to all of my teeth with a finger, and the viscousity wouldn't matter if I'm dilligent about pressing it between my teeth, etc. What *I* would be concerned with would be the alcohol content, saccharin/sugar alcohol content countering the effect - but that's also in ACT... so again... If not, *why* not....? >>>My question is, how do you plan to 'swish' toothpaste around? It > >I don't neccessarily see a need to "swish" it around - if I'm supposed >to swish ACT around for a minute, I would think that just applying >toothpaste to my teeth for a minute would expose them to more flouride >in the same amount of time? How are you going to apply it in the areas between your teeth? Maybe you'd be able to pack it in there, but I don't know.... >>mouthwash is exceptionally expensive, especially if you used the same >>VOLUME of toothpaste as you would mouthwash. Just the thought of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >If not, *why* not....? I'm not a dentist, can't tell you if one is more effective than the other, HOWEVER -- If your primary concern is getting more fluoride on your teeth, have you considered asking your dentist about a product such as Gel-Kam or Omni Gel? The stuff is brush-on fluoride gel, .4%. Adenosine > >I don't neccessarily see a need to "swish" it around - if I'm supposed > >to swish ACT around for a minute, I would think that just applying [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > How are you going to apply it in the areas between your teeth? Maybe > you'd be able to pack it in there, but I don't know.... FWIW, what I usually tell my patients is to brush, spit but don't rinse. Immediately take the dental floss and use it. This way the interdental spaces get a fluoride treatment as well as the easily-reached surfaces. Why not try using both: brush and floss and rinse with this ACT stuff (which I know not about) between meals? Notice I don't tell my patients to rinse at nighttime. Just brush, spit, floss, howl at the moon, bed. SP SignatureNot a real Addy, yet >FWIW, what I usually tell my patients is to brush, spit but don't rinse. >Immediately take the dental floss and use it. This way the interdental Wouldn't it be better to floss first - getting whatever tartar/gunk out - and *then* brushing with the flouride, allowing it to go where it couldn't before? >Why not try using both: brush and floss and rinse with this ACT stuff >(which I know not about) between meals? Yeah, I do... I'm just thinking in terms of maximizing things - and curious about the flouride concentration differences, as far as wondering if it pays to pay for ACT (which does seem to work)... >FWIW, what I usually tell my patients is to brush, spit but don't rinse. Don't even go there ....... |
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