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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2004

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Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams

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Jan - 10 Oct 2004 22:31 GMT
Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> A 1995 symposium report sums up the scientific controversy over amalgam in
this
> way:
>
> The controversy concerning the safety of dental amalgam has intensified in
> recent years. While proponents continue to reaffirm its safety by pointing to
> the millions of dental cavities that are annually being filled with amalgam
> without (apparently) causing any ill effects, opponents are demanding the
> immediate ban of dental amalgam, citing studies which demonstrate that
> substantial amounts of mercury from such fillings are released and absorbed,
> causing mercury to accumulate in organs and tissues, in pregnant women even
in
> the fetus.
> Although the health consequences of the accumulation of mercury in the human
> body are not yet fully understood, mercury is receiving increasing attention
as
> an immunotoxic element and for this reason it is suspected to play a role in
> the development of a variety of chronic diseases.
> Proponents of amalgam consider these claims to be largely unproven. They also
> point out that many of the symptoms attributed to chronic mercury exposure
from
> amalgam fillings are too non-specific to be relevant, and they further argue
> that, in the absence of a suitable low-cost replacement, a ban of amalgam
would
> have serious practical and fiscal consequences.
> However, in veiw of the mounting opposition against the use of amalgam,
dental
> professionals in many countries are increasingly revising their previous
> positions and public officials are preparing regulations for the restricted
use
> and eventual ban of all amalgam-based dental materials. [1]
> The following quotes are mostly from researchers who have contributed
> significantly to current knowledge about the health risks of amalgam. All of
> them are skeptical or negative to amalgam. There are many sources for the
> opposite point of view, but the vast majority of them are from dental
> organizations or researchers. These have done little relevant research of
their
> own, perhaps thinking that criticizing the work of others is sufficient. One
> pro-amalgam source that is not dentistry-based is the 1994 report from an
> expert group appointed by the Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare. I
> find this document strongly biased in its coverage of the scientific
> literature. Unfortunately, you must be able to read Swedish to form an
> independent opinion on that, since only the summary has been translated into
> English.
>
> Lars Friberg
> Lars Friberg is the author of the 1991 WHO report on inorganic mercury and
has
> contributed to the standard texts on metal toxicology. In the concluding
> remarks to the above-mentioned symposium, he says:
>
> My own conclusion is that already in individuals with bruxism, which is
common
> in the population, exposure may well be compared with industrial exposure
that
> has given rise to effects. Furthermore, despite negative results in
> epidemiological studies, the statistical power is not high enough to exclude
> the occurrence of effects in a few percent of the population at still lower
> exposure levels. As amalgam is used so widely already, an effect in a few
> percent of the exposed population would mean that very large population
groups
> could be affected.
> The evidence from experimental and human studies at higher exposure levels
> clearly indicates that mercury from the toxicological point of view is an
> unsuitable element to use in dentistry. It is my opinion that it is prudent
to
> conclude that mercury from dental amalgam is not safe to use for everyone.
[2]
> Mats Berlin
> Mats Berlin is also one of the "old guard" of metal toxicology. His
> publications are quoted no less than 5 times in Casarett and Doull's
> Toxicology. In a 1992 article, although he still supports the continued use
of
> amalgam, he adds:
>
> Such a decision [to continue using amalgam] should not be accompanied by a
> smoke screen in the form of a general statement that amalgam is safe, which
is
> an untruth that only demonstrates deficient knowledge of fundamental
principles
> of environmental medicine... [3]
> Recent risk assessments
> A risk assessment by G. Mark Richardson and Margaret Allan was recently
> published in a peer-reviewed risk assessment journal [4]. The authors
calculate
> a Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) for mercury vapor, and find that it
corresponds
> to two (2) or (4) fillings using either of two different exposure
calculations.
> They also compare the two models to exposure limits from risk assessments by
> the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry a branch of the
US
> Public Health service) and the USEPA. This works out to (0) mercury fillings
> for the USPHS Standard, nine (9) and eleven (11) mercury fillings for the
USEPA
> Standard. They conclude:
>
> It is apparent, therefore, that there is uncertainty in what constitutes a
> level of Hg vapor exposure that is acceptable, tolerable, or of minimal risk.
> Subsequently, there is uncertainty in the precise number of amalgam-filled
> teeth that can be considered acceptable, tolerable, or of minimal risk.
> However, it is also apparent that the continued unconditional and unlimited
use
> of amalgam as a dental restorative material, the placing of up to 25 amalgam
> fillings in one individual, is not supported by the available risk
information.
> Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers
> Three medical researchers, Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers, were asked by the
> FASEB Journal to review recent scientific findings on amalgam. The FASEB
> Journal is one of the world's most prestigious scientific publications.They
> state that "research evidence does not support the notion of amalgam
> safety", and conclude:
>
> The experimental evidence indicates that amalgam Hg has the potential to
induce
> cell or organ patophysiology. At the very least, the traditional dental
> paradigm, that amalgam is a chemically stable tooth restorative material and
> that the release of Hg [mercury] from this material is insignificant, is
> without foundation. [5]
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> 1) Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Preface. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status
Quo
> and perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International
symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995.
>
> 2) Friberg LT. Concluding remarks. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status Quo
and
> perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995: 134-136.
>
> 3) Richardson GM, Allan M: A Monte Carlo Assessment of Mercury Exposure and
> Risks from Dental Amalgam. Human and Ecological Risk Assessment 1996; 2 (4):
> 709-761.
>
> 4) Berlin M: Är amalgam i tandfyllningar en hälsorisk? [Is amalgam in dental
> fillings hazardous to health?]. Lakartidningen 1992; 89 (37): 2918-23. [My
> translation from the Swedish]
>
> 5) Lorscheider F, Vimy MJ, Summers AO: Mercury exposure from "silver" tooth
> fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB
> Journal 1995; 9: 504-8 .
Joel M. Eichen - 11 Oct 2004 00:45 GMT
> Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

The dose is the poison .... 17 micrograms goes down EASY.

Joel

>> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
John Chewter - 11 Oct 2004 01:47 GMT
What do cab drivers say about amalgam?

>> Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>>> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
Joel M. Eichen - 11 Oct 2004 02:09 GMT
>What do cab drivers say about amalgam?

I give up.

What?

>>> Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>>>> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
carabelli - 11 Oct 2004 02:32 GMT
> What do cab drivers say about amalgam?

No we haven't passed that before, that's a different 350mV sign.

carabelli - the meter's running
John Chewter - 11 Oct 2004 05:42 GMT
WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?

Toxicologists, Researchers, NOT DENTISTS have said this....... Gosh.

Lots of Researchers, Toxicologists and Dentists and some people who can
actually spell said its safe. Gosh.

I suggest they arm wrestle it out, as I am underwhelmed.

Am I the only one fed up reading all this?

>> What do cab drivers say about amalgam?
>
> No we haven't passed that before, that's a different 350mV sign.
>
> carabelli - the meter's running
Jan - 11 Oct 2004 06:06 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
>Date: 10/10/2004 8:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <ckd2vt$dc1$1@titan.btinternet.com>
>
>WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?

ONE Thing.

I have helped others and will continue until the day I die.

I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL searching
for their *unanswered* heath problem.

>Subject: Thanks to Jan,,,,
>From: "Rod" deniecerod@hotmail.com
[quoted text clipped - 175 lines]
>
>                 help

IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!

NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metal
in the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.

I did, it saved my life.

Mercury is Poisonous.

There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.

The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the
other sources together.

U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.

Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such as
chlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronic
devices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected by
condensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.

***The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount of
mercury
in the environment *****

http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm

17. DENTAL AMALGAM

Dental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPA
regulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for
its disposal.

Jan
John Chewter - 11 Oct 2004 06:50 GMT
> I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL
> searching
> for their *unanswered* heath problem.

I have seen dozens of answers to your mercury questions.
You just don't like or accept them.

Anyway I would prefer to read their accounts of suffering and research.
Presumably one or two of them can type.

.

> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 242 lines]
>
> Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 11 Oct 2004 11:18 GMT
>>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>I have helped others and will continue until the day I die.

Ummmmm. This sounds very familiar!

While Jan spouts off about amalgamitis, Vioxx has come and gone!

Joel

>I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL searching
>for their *unanswered* heath problem.
[quoted text clipped - 213 lines]
>
>Jan
Happy Oyster - 11 Oct 2004 13:32 GMT
>>WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL searching
>for their *unanswered* heath problem.

Jan Drew posts for advertizing. Jan Drew is an advertizing agency for
the naturopath mafia. Jan Drew insults, lies, seeds hatred, and
advertizes even for life-endangering stuff.

To fall for the lies of Jan Drew can impose a high risk to the life of
you and your children.

Jan Drew is a danger for unknowing persons and should be put into
jail. As soon as possible. And as long as possible.

The FAQ about Jan Drew :

  http://www.geocities.com/naturopathicmafia/Quackery.html

More about dangerous persons :

  http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_lueg.htm

Regards,

Aribert Deckers
Signature

                     Satanisten in der Ärztekammer?
                             
                http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_woch.htm

Shyster - 12 Oct 2004 06:00 GMT
> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
> >From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL searching
> for their *unanswered* heath problem.

But why use the stuff at all since there are alternatives?

> >Subject: Thanks to Jan,,,,
> >From: "Rod" deniecerod@hotmail.com
[quoted text clipped - 210 lines]
>
> Jan
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Oct 2004 12:16 GMT
>> I don't post for you, I post for all those STILL suffering and STILL
>searching
>> for their *unanswered* heath problem.

Is this an old Johnny Cash song?

Joel

Because you're mine I walk the amalgam line .......
Joel M. Eichen - 11 Oct 2004 11:17 GMT
>WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?

JAN'S GOALS

Free pass ,,,, bathing in .... de-NILE!

>Toxicologists, Researchers, NOT DENTISTS have said this....... Gosh.
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> carabelli - the meter's running
Clinton C Zimmerman - 11 Oct 2004 12:30 GMT
> WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I suggest they arm wrestle it out, as I am underwhelmed.

That says a lot about you as an individual. Your not concerned because
it doesn't affect you personally. To be honest if I hadn't been
poisoned, I probably wouldn't care either. A lot of people have that
attitude.
But ever heard of Karma?

> Am I the only one fed up reading all this?

And what makes you think that those affected by amalgam, care what
you think. Hey, as soon as the ADA stops putting that garbage in
peoples mouths, stops exposing pregnant women to industrial levels of
Hg and admits that some capsules can be defective and that it can be
harmful and
so on, people will stop posting about it. Fair?
John Chewter - 11 Oct 2004 13:53 GMT
If there is new research - and not just the same stuff quoted and requoted -
I might get interested.again.
Frankly the gong bangers have blunted any interest I have.

I cannot influence this outcome. I am a software writer and am sick of
reading basically the same stuff rechurned.

I can influence better diagnosis by making better tools and I get fed up
when the group is hijacked every day or so by Jan rants.

We know this point of view - we read it on here daily.

There is more to dentistry than Mercury.

Thousands of people die every day from Malaria. Sound like a higher world
priority to me. My karma is doing just fine thank you.

>> WTF does Jan hope to achieve in here?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> harmful and
> so on, people will stop posting about it. Fair?
W_B - 11 Oct 2004 18:38 GMT
Actually AIDS is number thirteen (13) on the list of most deadlies.

Heart disease (MI) is #1.

Hg is not even in the top 100.

Check the WHO site.

>If there is new research - and not just the same stuff quoted and requoted -
>I might get interested.again.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>> harmful and
>> so on, people will stop posting about it. Fair?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Jan - 12 Oct 2004 00:15 GMT
>From: "John Chewter"

>when the group is hijacked every day or so by Jan rants.

That's a total lie.

I haven't seen you complain about Joel's idiot posts.

If you don't like my helping others, it is YOUR problem.

Use your killfile.

Jan
John Chewter - 12 Oct 2004 02:26 GMT
> I haven't seen you complain about Joel's idiot posts.

Irrelevant, but to answer your point, I find his amusing and yours negative,
irritating and repetitive.

> >From: "John Chewter"
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Jan
Jan - 12 Oct 2004 02:54 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Irrelevant, but to answer your point, I find his amusing and yours negative,
>irritating and repetitive.

So you like idiot posts, try a comedy ng.

Acually he is just down right stupid.

He helps no one.

I do.

Get used to it or use your killfile.
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Oct 2004 12:17 GMT
>>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>I do.

This is correct. Jan helps the fake doctors defraud their patients out
of lots of dough!

Joel

Any composite compatibility testing protocols out there, anybuddy?

>Get used to it or use your killfile.
StovePipe - 13 Oct 2004 02:37 GMT
> This is correct. Jan helps the fake doctors defraud their patients out
> of lots of dough!
>
> Joel
>
> Any composite compatibility testing protocols out there, anybuddy?

This involves caramelized apples, a full moon and some chicken feathers.

> >Get used to it or use your killfile.

Better get used to your killfile
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Tony Bad - 12 Oct 2004 05:38 GMT
> > I haven't seen you complain about Joel's idiot posts.
>
> Irrelevant, but to answer your point, I find his amusing and yours negative,
> irritating and repetitive.

I find them both irritating and have them killfiled...it makes this NG
tolerable.

Sometimes I feel I am missing something worthwhile by blocking Joel...but know
my quality of life is improved by blocking the other person.

T
StovePipe - 13 Oct 2004 02:37 GMT
> I find them both irritating and have them killfiled...it makes this NG
> tolerable.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> T

SOMEtimes, I feel, like a motherless child....
A LOOONg way form home....
Richie Havens (Woodstock)
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

John Chewter - 12 Oct 2004 07:20 GMT
Please could you post the names of a some people whose dental health you
have directly helped through posting in this group? Just a couple of dozen
would do.

It would be nice to see how much you have contributed.

> Use your killfile.

You aren't bullying me out of here.

> >From: "John Chewter"
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Jan
Jan - 12 Oct 2004 21:23 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>have directly helped through posting in this group? Just a couple of dozen
>would do.

>Subject: Thanks to Jan,,,,
>From: "Rod" deniecerod@hotmail.com
[quoted text clipped - 175 lines]
>
>                 help

>> Use your killfile.
>
>You aren't bullying me out of here.

Do you even know what a killfile is?????
Joel M. Eichen - 12 Oct 2004 22:06 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>I wish to express gratitude to Jan for making me aware of Dental issues.
>>I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis and have d

REPLY

Jan, how is your brother-in-law doing ....???
John Chewter - 13 Oct 2004 07:34 GMT
OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0

Just the Jan-Fans left then?

>>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Jan, how is your brother-in-law doing ....???
Jan - 13 Oct 2004 08:09 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Just the Jan-Fans left then?

You read them.

Joel is an idot, who lies.
Joel M. Eichen - 13 Oct 2004 13:02 GMT
>>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Joel is an idot, who lies.

Jan in de-AMAZON .......

Brazilians out!
Steven Fawks - 14 Oct 2004 14:22 GMT
Joel!!  I had no idea you were an idot.  Why didn't you tell us?

Around here, we have MoDot.  They do an OK job, but leave a few
too many pot holes in the roads.

Fawks

> Joel is an idot, who lies.
Joel M. Eichen - 14 Oct 2004 15:39 GMT
>Joel!!  I had no idea you were an idot.  Why didn't you tell us?

Now possibly my style is a little off-beat, but I follow the
profession. So far, mercury fillings are not outlawed. It is highly
recommended that people mix some silver power in with the mercury
fillings so they do not slosh over the sides and fall out of cavities
when people jog.

Joel

>Around here, we have MoDot.  They do an OK job, but leave a few
>too many pot holes in the roads.
>
>Fawks
>
>> Joel is an idot, who lies.
W_B - 14 Oct 2004 17:17 GMT
>OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0
>
>Just the Jan-Fans left then?

square root of negative one.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 14 Oct 2004 18:18 GMT
>>OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0
>>
>>Just the Jan-Fans left then?
>
>square root of negative one.

You into fractal geometry Dude?
W_B - 15 Oct 2004 18:34 GMT
>>>OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>You into fractal geometry Dude?

Especially like Julia sets,  Mandlebrots are well, just not as interesting.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 02:21 GMT
>>>>OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>
>Especially like Julia sets,  Mandlebrots are well, just not as interesting.

YUP, got a fractal generator going on your 'puter and all?

They are very cool.
StovePipe - 15 Oct 2004 12:33 GMT
> >OK so that's 1 minus 1 = 0
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> W_B

.... undefined ....
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Jan - 16 Oct 2004 01:27 GMT
EVERYTIME you jerkos start with the nonsense, I am going to post what this
thread is about.

If you wish to talk nonsense, start a new thread, please.

Jan

Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> A 1995 symposium report sums up the scientific controversy over amalgam in
this
> way:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> substantial amounts of mercury from such fillings are released and absorbed,
> causing mercury to accumulate in organs and tissues, in pregnant women even
in
> the fetus.
> Although the health consequences of the accumulation of mercury in the human
> body are not yet fully understood, mercury is receiving increasing attention
as
> an immunotoxic element and for this reason it is suspected to play a role in
> the development of a variety of chronic diseases.
> Proponents of amalgam consider these claims to be largely unproven. They also
> point out that many of the symptoms attributed to chronic mercury exposure
from
> amalgam fillings are too non-specific to be relevant, and they further argue
> that, in the absence of a suitable low-cost replacement, a ban of amalgam
would
> have serious practical and fiscal consequences.
> However, in veiw of the mounting opposition against the use of amalgam,
dental
> professionals in many countries are increasingly revising their previous
> positions and public officials are preparing regulations for the restricted
use
> and eventual ban of all amalgam-based dental materials. [1]
> The following quotes are mostly from researchers who have contributed
> significantly to current knowledge about the health risks of amalgam. All of
> them are skeptical or negative to amalgam. There are many sources for the
> opposite point of view, but the vast majority of them are from dental
> organizations or researchers. These have done little relevant research of
their
> own, perhaps thinking that criticizing the work of others is sufficient. One
> pro-amalgam source that is not dentistry-based is the 1994 report from an
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Lars Friberg
> Lars Friberg is the author of the 1991 WHO report on inorganic mercury and
has
> contributed to the standard texts on metal toxicology. In the concluding
> remarks to the above-mentioned symposium, he says:
>
> My own conclusion is that already in individuals with bruxism, which is
common
> in the population, exposure may well be compared with industrial exposure
that
> has given rise to effects. Furthermore, despite negative results in
> epidemiological studies, the statistical power is not high enough to exclude
> the occurrence of effects in a few percent of the population at still lower
> exposure levels. As amalgam is used so widely already, an effect in a few
> percent of the exposed population would mean that very large population
groups
> could be affected.
> The evidence from experimental and human studies at higher exposure levels
> clearly indicates that mercury from the toxicological point of view is an
> unsuitable element to use in dentistry. It is my opinion that it is prudent
to
> conclude that mercury from dental amalgam is not safe to use for everyone.
[2]
> Mats Berlin
> Mats Berlin is also one of the "old guard" of metal toxicology. His
> publications are quoted no less than 5 times in Casarett and Doull's
> Toxicology. In a 1992 article, although he still supports the continued use
of
> amalgam, he adds:
>
> Such a decision [to continue using amalgam] should not be accompanied by a
> smoke screen in the form of a general statement that amalgam is safe, which
is
> an untruth that only demonstrates deficient knowledge of fundamental
principles
> of environmental medicine... [3]
> Recent risk assessments
> A risk assessment by G. Mark Richardson and Margaret Allan was recently
> published in a peer-reviewed risk assessment journal [4]. The authors
calculate
> a Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) for mercury vapor, and find that it
corresponds
> to two (2) or (4) fillings using either of two different exposure
calculations.
> They also compare the two models to exposure limits from risk assessments by
> the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry a branch of the
US
> Public Health service) and the USEPA. This works out to (0) mercury fillings
> for the USPHS Standard, nine (9) and eleven (11) mercury fillings for the
USEPA
> Standard. They conclude:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> teeth that can be considered acceptable, tolerable, or of minimal risk.
> However, it is also apparent that the continued unconditional and unlimited
use
> of amalgam as a dental restorative material, the placing of up to 25 amalgam
> fillings in one individual, is not supported by the available risk
information.
> Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers
> Three medical researchers, Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers, were asked by the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> The experimental evidence indicates that amalgam Hg has the potential to
induce
> cell or organ patophysiology. At the very least, the traditional dental
> paradigm, that amalgam is a chemically stable tooth restorative material and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> 1) Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Preface. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status
Quo
> and perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International
symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995.
>
> 2) Friberg LT. Concluding remarks. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status Quo
and
> perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995: 134-136.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB
> Journal 1995; 9: 504-8 .
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 02:22 GMT
>EVERYTIME you jerkos start with the nonsense, I am going to post what this
>thread is about.
>
>If you wish to talk nonsense, start a new thread, please.
>
>Jan

Nya-nya-ne-nya-nya.

> Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 148 lines]
>> fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB
>> Journal 1995; 9: 504-8 .
carabelli - 16 Oct 2004 15:15 GMT
"Jan" <jdrew63929@aol.com> wrote in...............

>> Mats Berlin is also one of the "old guard" of metal toxicology. His
>> publications are quoted no less than 5 times in Casarett and Doull's
>> Toxicology. In a 1992 article, although he still supports the continued
>> use
> of
>> amalgam.......................

Thanks Jan

carabelli
Jan - 16 Oct 2004 22:48 GMT
>From: "carabelli" huerter@worldnet.att.net

Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> A 1995 symposium report sums up the scientific controversy over amalgam in
this
> way:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> substantial amounts of mercury from such fillings are released and absorbed,
> causing mercury to accumulate in organs and tissues, in pregnant women even
in
> the fetus.
> Although the health consequences of the accumulation of mercury in the human
> body are not yet fully understood, mercury is receiving increasing attention
as
> an immunotoxic element and for this reason it is suspected to play a role in
> the development of a variety of chronic diseases.
> Proponents of amalgam consider these claims to be largely unproven. They also
> point out that many of the symptoms attributed to chronic mercury exposure
from
> amalgam fillings are too non-specific to be relevant, and they further argue
> that, in the absence of a suitable low-cost replacement, a ban of amalgam
would
> have serious practical and fiscal consequences.
> However, in veiw of the mounting opposition against the use of amalgam,
dental
> professionals in many countries are increasingly revising their previous
> positions and public officials are preparing regulations for the restricted
use
> and eventual ban of all amalgam-based dental materials. [1]
> The following quotes are mostly from researchers who have contributed
> significantly to current knowledge about the health risks of amalgam. All of
> them are skeptical or negative to amalgam. There are many sources for the
> opposite point of view, but the vast majority of them are from dental
> organizations or researchers. These have done little relevant research of
their
> own, perhaps thinking that criticizing the work of others is sufficient. One
> pro-amalgam source that is not dentistry-based is the 1994 report from an
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Lars Friberg
> Lars Friberg is the author of the 1991 WHO report on inorganic mercury and
has
> contributed to the standard texts on metal toxicology. In the concluding
> remarks to the above-mentioned symposium, he says:
>
> My own conclusion is that already in individuals with bruxism, which is
common
> in the population, exposure may well be compared with industrial exposure
that
> has given rise to effects. Furthermore, despite negative results in
> epidemiological studies, the statistical power is not high enough to exclude
> the occurrence of effects in a few percent of the population at still lower
> exposure levels. As amalgam is used so widely already, an effect in a few
> percent of the exposed population would mean that very large population
groups
> could be affected.
> The evidence from experimental and human studies at higher exposure levels
> clearly indicates that mercury from the toxicological point of view is an
> unsuitable element to use in dentistry. It is my opinion that it is prudent
to
> conclude that mercury from dental amalgam is not safe to use for everyone.
[2]
> Mats Berlin
> Mats Berlin is also one of the "old guard" of metal toxicology. His
> publications are quoted no less than 5 times in Casarett and Doull's
> Toxicology. In a 1992 article, although he still supports the continued use
of
> amalgam, he adds:
>
> Such a decision [to continue using amalgam] should not be accompanied by a
> smoke screen in the form of a general statement that amalgam is safe, which
is
> an untruth that only demonstrates deficient knowledge of fundamental
principles
> of environmental medicine... [3]
> Recent risk assessments
> A risk assessment by G. Mark Richardson and Margaret Allan was recently
> published in a peer-reviewed risk assessment journal [4]. The authors
calculate
> a Tolerable Daily Intake (TDI) for mercury vapor, and find that it
corresponds
> to two (2) or (4) fillings using either of two different exposure
calculations.
> They also compare the two models to exposure limits from risk assessments by
> the ATSDR (Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry a branch of the
US
> Public Health service) and the USEPA. This works out to (0) mercury fillings
> for the USPHS Standard, nine (9) and eleven (11) mercury fillings for the
USEPA
> Standard. They conclude:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> teeth that can be considered acceptable, tolerable, or of minimal risk.
> However, it is also apparent that the continued unconditional and unlimited
use
> of amalgam as a dental restorative material, the placing of up to 25 amalgam
> fillings in one individual, is not supported by the available risk
information.
> Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers
> Three medical researchers, Lorscheider, Vimy and Summers, were asked by the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> The experimental evidence indicates that amalgam Hg has the potential to
induce
> cell or organ patophysiology. At the very least, the traditional dental
> paradigm, that amalgam is a chemically stable tooth restorative material and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> 1) Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Preface. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status
Quo
> and perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International
symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995.
>
> 2) Friberg LT. Concluding remarks. In: Friberg LT, Schrauzer GN. Status Quo
and
> perspectives of amalgam and other dental materials. International symposium
> proceedings. G. Thieme Verlag Stuttgart, 1995: 134-136.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB
> Journal 1995; 9: 504-8 .
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 23:28 GMT
>>From: "carabelli" huerter@worldnet.att.net
>
> Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

Jan --> de-NILE

>> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
>>
[quoted text clipped - 146 lines]
>> fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB
>> Journal 1995; 9: 504-8 .
John Chewter - 13 Oct 2004 07:32 GMT
>>Do you even know what a killfile is?????

Of course - stop bullying me. I am not going away.

Well, I make that 1 you helped - very well done for that.

The other listed being 'keep on ranting Jan' posts - which are not help -
they are your fan group acclamations.

Why don't you start an alt.dentistry.Amalgams newsgroup? Kind of bring a
focus to your passion?
Seems like a good idea for all concerned.

> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 204 lines]
>>
> Do you even know what a killfile is?????
Jan - 13 Oct 2004 08:06 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Of course - stop bullying me. I am not going away.

I am not bullying you. If you don't like my posts, use your fillfile.

Simple.

This doesn't cause you to go away, you just con't see my posts, so evidently
you don't know what it is.

>Well, I make that 1 you helped - very well done for that.

So, you can't read either.

>The other listed being 'keep on ranting Jan' posts - which are not help -
>they are your fan group acclamations.

LOL.

>Why don't you start an alt.dentistry.Amalgams newsgroup? Kind of bring a
>focus to your passion?
>Seems like a good idea for all concerned.

Nope, doing a fine job right here,

>> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 204 lines]
>>>
>> Do you even know what a killfile is?????
Clinton C Zimmerman - 13 Oct 2004 16:04 GMT
> >>Do you even know what a killfile is?????
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> The other listed being 'keep on ranting Jan' posts - which are not help -
> they are your fan group acclamations.

That's not true, she listed 6, 3 of which felt they had been helped
and one who strongly suspected amalgam. By the way, there are only
half a dozen or so "regular dentists" on the list and nearly as many
"amalgam victims", myself, Jan, Chuck, Ta, Vanja and so on "currently"
posting. (I can immediately think of two others who posted this year).
We could easily email her bringing her list to almost a dozen.
Likewise, those who emailed her could have
decided to post here regularly even though they have no interest in
dentistry, making the number of regularly posting amalgam victims more
than the number of dentist regulars!

You seem to have very much of a follower mentality though I'm sure
you think of yourself as an independent thinker.

Is it fun to join in with the mob and stone the messenger to death?
Do you realize that that is what you are doing?
It's takes a lot of nerve to issue a challenge like you did and then
when it is substantially answered throw it back in Jan's face. That's
just not right.

By the way, what is also is galling is the attacks on Jan for not
being sick from Hg, then turning around and accusing her of
repeatative rants, that if true would be very symptomatic of Chronic
Hg exposure. You can't have it both ways.

> Why don't you start an alt.dentistry.Amalgams newsgroup? Kind of bring a
> focus to your passion?
[quoted text clipped - 208 lines]
> >>
> > Do you even know what a killfile is?????
Joel M. Eichen - 13 Oct 2004 16:39 GMT
>That's not true, she listed 6, 3 of which felt they had been helped
>and one who strongly suspected amalgam. By the way, there are only
>half a dozen or so "regular dentists" on the list and nearly as many
>"amalgam victims", myself, Jan, Chuck,

ALL three nearly died and could not break dance for ...... well ......
it was days!

Joel'
John Chewter - 13 Oct 2004 19:52 GMT
>You seem to have very much of a follower mentality though I'm sure
you think of yourself as an independent thinker.

>Is it fun to join in with the mob and stone the messenger to death?
>Do you realize that is what you are doing?

Who is this mob? Dan, Mark, W_B and Joel? Gosh its a big and scary mob isn't
it? (not)

Quite the reverse. I am an oddball in here - I am not a dentist - I often
have spats with dentists in here - I am a dental software developer and
businessman. I make some, in some circles - controversial stuff - I don't
follow any crowd.

Frankly, while I have great sympathy for victims of any treatments, mercury
is NOT 50% of dentistry. But its about 50% of the posts in here.

I welcome NEW findings - including mercury stuff. Some stuff that Jan posts
IS new and interesting but that about 5% or less. The rest is not usually
new stuff - its more like Prof XXX said 'in recent studies blah blah' and
then lists the same (questionable) familiar sources and abstracts. Therefore
it is not new stuff - its re-reported old stuff.

We know mercury is toxic
We know the (sometimes disputed) mechanisms
We know it has been cited as a cause of autism (along with vaccinations,
diet and the kitchen sink)
We know there are alternatives.

Why do we need to be told 3 times a week?

If Jan wants taking seriously then a more professional approach (No LIAR
LIAR stuff for example) would get better results.
Some Recent Examples:

Dan The L I A R

More LIES From Dan

Poor Mark DISHONEST Thorson

Mark Thorson, Rpeeatitis PLUS Dirty Tricks

Write a well researched paper with new material, get it endorsed by a few
respectable teaching dentists, and publish it. WE WOULD ALL READ IT. This
would have a greater effect that such topics as

Or

Monthly Jan Digest - kind of non-emotive roll up of NEW Mercury stuff. That
would be very acceptable. I would read that for example.

Or

Find a more effective (non Ranting) communicator for the cause.

The daily drip feed of what we already know is ticking us off.

I think I have spent enough time on Saint Jan's cause for this week.
Jan - 13 Oct 2004 23:14 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Frankly, while I have great sympathy for victims of any treatments, mercury
>is NOT 50% of dentistry. But its about 50% of the posts in here.

You best count again, 50% is nonsense.

>I welcome NEW findings - including mercury stuff. Some stuff that Jan posts
>IS new and interesting but that about 5% or less

So you say.

>The rest is not usually
>new stuff - its more like Prof XXX said 'in recent studies blah blah' and
>then lists the same (questionable) familiar sources and abstracts. Therefore
>it is not new stuff - its re-reported old stuff.

For new readers.

>We know mercury is toxic
>We know the (sometimes disputed) mechanisms
>We know it has been cited as a cause of autism (along with vaccinations,
>diet and the kitchen sink)
>We know there are alternatives.

>Why do we need to be told 3 times a week?

For ALL those STILL suffering and STILL searching for their *unanswered* health
problems.

>If Jan wants taking seriously then a more professional approach (No LIAR
>LIAR stuff for example) would get better results.
>Some Recent Examples:

>Dan The L I A R

YES, the way to stop that is simple.

STOP lying.

>More LIES From Dan

YES, I call a lie, EVERYTIME. I see one.

>Poor Mark DISHONEST Thorson

PROVEN BEYOND A DOUBT.

>Mark Thorson, Rpeeatitis PLUS Dirty Tricks

Ditto!

>The daily drip feed of what we already know is ticking us off.

Too, Too bad.

You have NO idea how ticked off one gets, while being LIED to, by the ADA and
AMA, it means LIFE, so excuse me if you get ticked off.

>I think I have spent enough time on Saint Jan's cause for this week.

I am not a saint, just one who was POISONED AND NEARLY
DIED,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I have helped others and will continue.

Jan

IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!

NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of
metalin the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.

I did, it saved my life

.Mercury is Poisonous.There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.The
mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the other
sources together.

U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.Mercury is also recovered from
discarded products and wastes such aschlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams,
fluorescent light tubes, electronicdevices, and others.

The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected bycondensation. Condensed
mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.*

The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount ofmercury
in the environment

http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm

17. DENTAL AMALGAMDental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin
alloy. Cal-EPAregulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste
Removal Form for its disposal.
John Chewter - 14 Oct 2004 01:03 GMT
>>For new readers.

EVERY FEW DAYS? You seemed very obsessed.

The rest of your reply was dross.

> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 119 lines]
> Waste
> Removal Form for its disposal.
Jan - 14 Oct 2004 04:27 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>EVERY FEW DAYS? You seemed very obsessed.

For ALL those STILL suffering, and STILL searching for their *unanswered*
health problems.

I WAS one.

YOU, OTOH, are here to argue.

If you are interested in WHO is obsessed, I invite you to do a search using
Joel Eichen's name and mine, in different forms.

Jan  Jan Drew JanDrew Janster JanBrewski Janny

For starters.

Jannypoo>
>> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 119 lines]
>> Waste
>> Removal Form for its disposal.
John Chewter - 14 Oct 2004 05:46 GMT
This is a newsgroup You don't seem to understand what that is.

Posting the same warnings every few days is not news.

Please find us some NEW mercury stuff. Thank you.

> >Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 151 lines]
>>> Waste
>>> Removal Form for its disposal.
Jan - 14 Oct 2004 06:16 GMT
>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
>Date: 10/13/2004 8:46 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <ckl0b0$qq9$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
>
>This is a newsgroup

Correction.

This is sci med dentistry.

>For ALL those STILL suffering, and STILL searching for their *unanswered*
>> health problems.
[quoted text clipped - 143 lines]
>>>> Waste
>>>> Removal Form for its disposal.
Joel M. Eichen - 14 Oct 2004 15:41 GMT
>>Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
>>From: "John Chewter" john@LESS_SPAMchewter.f9.co.uk
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>This is sci med dentistry.

NO ITS NOT.

This is sci.med.fearofmercury!

>>For ALL those STILL suffering, and STILL searching for their *unanswered*
>>> health problems.
[quoted text clipped - 143 lines]
>>>>> Waste
>>>>> Removal Form for its disposal.
Ilena Rose - 14 Oct 2004 17:04 GMT
On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:41:38 -0400, Joel M. Eichen
<joeleichen@yahoo.com>

Joelly ... how did you justify it to yourself to take Ms Jan Drew's
name and create a deceptive alias for yourself with it?

Never understood that.
Joel M. Eichen - 14 Oct 2004 18:20 GMT
>On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:41:38 -0400, Joel M. Eichen
><joeleichen@yahoo.com>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Never understood that.

Its called parody Ilena.

By the way, how you making out with your lawsuits?

Are you still collecting tax free money for your breast foundation
organization?

PS- I liked your tax returns. It was VERY interesting.

For those who do not know, those tax returns are public information.

Joel
Ilena Rose - 14 Oct 2004 22:40 GMT
>By the way, how you making out with your lawsuits?

Thanks for asking ... I thought you knew that your buddy, Dr. Sue
Steve Barrett and his Malicious Prosecutor Chris Grell had absolutely
nothing on me ... they totally lost both at the Superior Court and the
Appeals Court levels ... simultaneously ... they upped their libelous
attacks on me on Usenet ... using Quack Flacks in Drag ... Polevoy
himself as "Vera" ... Ted Nidiffer as "Nana" ... and your buddy
"Marla" Probert of course ...

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

As far as Polevoy ... the comment about him donning disguises to stalk
talk show host Ms Christine McPhee that I reposted ... will be heard
in the Supreme Court of California ...

Nidiffer is currently posting more libelous statements about me on a
webpage they created ... very useful in my malicious prosecution case
against their SLAPP suit against me ...

If you are interested in seeing Terry Polevoy donning disguises and
prance around Usenet dressed as a woman to harass me and other critics
of his ... and advertise his Quack / Hate Website ... here are just 50
of those posts:

http://groups.google.com/groups?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d&q=author%3A
vera+teasdale&btnG=Search


When he was so stupid as to post using the name "Vera" from his own
Hate Website, healthwatcher.net account ... he immediately nuked it.

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=d0acb77d.0406131242.49fa0cd3%40posting.goog
le.com


Nice team.

For more on "Cathy Credulous" Nana Nidiffer, please visit:

www.humanticsfoundation.com/myrl.html#Nana
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 13:27 GMT
>>By the way, how you making out with your lawsuits?
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>himself as "Vera" ... Ted Nidiffer as "Nana" ... and your buddy
>"Marla" Probert of course ...

REPLY

So what's the deal with going to Costa Rica?

You still hiding out there?

Joel

>www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>www.humanticsfoundation.com/myrl.html#Nana
Mark Probert - 15 Oct 2004 16:27 GMT
> >>By the way, how you making out with your lawsuits?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> You still hiding out there?

Who knows? She has munged her headers to the point where knowing where she
is is not possible. A sure sign of a guilty conscience.

Path:
news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net!news3.optonline.net!news.glorb.com!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-
08!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: Ilena Rose <ilena@san.rr.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med.dentistry,misc.health.alternative
Subject: Re: What Toxicologists and Researchers Say About Amalgams
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:40:32 -0600
Organization:
Message-ID: <i4stm092bcb9f8k30vfp7s6j7d6hlc2lrj@4ax.com>
References: <ckl0b0$qq9$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
<20041014011627.19078.00002587@mb-m29.aol.com>
<404tm0pl0tl6186cb92fkvc3cgqkegcemj@4ax.com>
<cq8tm0d9hjmmhchmu0vlc38tma4ild0qgo@4ax.com>
<q7dtm018nmcptqne91lg9527vh73h64fmg@4ax.com>
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Xref: news3.optonline.net sci.med.dentistry:211522
misc.health.alternative:342350
Ilena Rose - 15 Oct 2004 17:46 GMT
>Who knows? She has munged her headers to the point where knowing where she
>is is not possible. A sure sign of a guilty conscience.

LOL ... I munged nothing Marla ... what Quack Logic ... I love this
Newsreader and it's only a bonus that stalkers like you and Polevoy
and Nidffier (all Quacks in Drag) ... can't tell where I'm posting
from.

Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
Probert's husband?

You are a frightening stalker ... perhaps I should contact her at
Bayside High and let her see your behavior.

More of this BS and you can be sure I will ... yours and Terry
Polevoy's obsession to my whereabouts is indeed frightening ... that
coupled with your lack of any morals and your belief that when you don
a disguise ... you are someone else other than failed attorney, Mark S
Probert is psychotic behavior.

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html

A member of the losing Quacks Ragtag Posse:
www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

www.humanticsfoundation.com/
Mark Probert - 15 Oct 2004 18:44 GMT
> Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
> Probert's husband?
>
> You are a frightening stalker ... perhaps I should contact her at
> Bayside High and let her see your behavior.

What you are doing is S T A L K I N G a person who is not involved in this
newsgroup. When YOU investigate my header, it is OK, and when I do it is is
stalking.

Contacting anyone outside of this newsgroup is NOT an act of free speech. I
support free speech.
Ilena Rose - 15 Oct 2004 19:33 GMT
>> Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
>> Probert's husband?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Contacting anyone outside of this newsgroup is NOT an act of free speech. I
>support free speech.

LOL ... that's absurd ... your calling my home and harassing and
threatening me ... and then LYING ABOUT it was covered under free
speech ...

I cracked up reading your lies recently about what you imagined and
posted were facts that I said before I hung up ...

I was so appalled at hearing your ugly voice in my home office, I
immediately hung up ... yet you lied about here ...

You are obsessed with my whereabouts ... and you have proven yourself
to be a stalker for 3 years now ...

Why you are so afraid of your wife finding out about your behavior
will be interesting to watch unfold now ...

You've crossed the line too many times, Barrett's Parrot ... you and
Terry Polevoy are frightening crossdressing harassers and your
obsession as to where I am goes way beyond this newsgroup, Marla.

www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Mark Probert - 15 Oct 2004 21:00 GMT
> >> Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
> >> Probert's husband?
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> LOL ... that's absurd ... your calling my home

I called the publicly advertised phone number for the Humantics Foundation.
I have explained that I was attempting to do you a favor, i.e. prevent you
from becoming charged with stalking since you had been threatening to
contact a Mark Probert from Virginia.

and harassing and
> threatening me ... and then LYING ABOUT it was covered under free
> speech ...

It is covered by free speech. YOU do not get to decide what is free
*speech.*

> I cracked up reading your lies recently about what you imagined and
> posted were facts that I said before I hung up ...

Sure you did. You crack up at the most imappropriate times. This is referred
to as an inappropriate affect.

> I was so appalled at hearing your ugly voice in my home office, I
> immediately hung up ... yet you lied about here ...

Of course you hung up...you cannot stand to hear the truth.

> You are obsessed with my whereabouts ... and you have proven yourself
> to be a stalker for 3 years now ...

Bullshit. I did not post to you for over two years and asked you to leave me
alone. Instead, you consdtantly imagined seeing me under every post
criticising you where you did not know who was writing it. IOW, it was your
very vidid imagination and/or ideation.

> Why you are so afraid of your wife finding out about your behavior
> will be interesting to watch unfold now ...

I am afraid of nothing. I detest that type of behavior where a 3rd party not
involved in the disucssions here is brought into it. You have done thisin
the past, thus the practice is YOURS.

> You've crossed the line too many times, Barrett's Parrot ... you and
> Terry Polevoy are frightening crossdressing harassers and your
> obsession as to where I am goes way beyond this newsgroup, Marla.

I will take that as a threat.
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 22:28 GMT
>> You've crossed the line too many times, Barrett's Parrot ... you and
>> Terry Polevoy are frightening crossdressing harassers and your
>> obsession as to where I am goes way beyond this newsgroup, Marla.

No Barrett has a real parrot ....... and he did not get him in Costa
Rica ......

Joel

>I will take that as a threat.
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 22:28 GMT
>>> Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
>>> Probert's husband?
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>threatening me ... and then LYING ABOUT it was covered under free
>speech ...

We tried calling but the operator only speaks Spanish ......

>I cracked up reading your lies recently about what you imagined and
>posted were facts that I said before I hung up ...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>www.humanticsfoundation.com/PropagandistProbert.html
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 22:28 GMT
>I was so appalled at hearing your ugly voice in my home office, I
>immediately hung up ... yet you lied about here ...
>
>You are obsessed with my whereabouts ... and you have proven yourself
>to be a stalker for 3 years now ...

I still say Costa Rica .......... there is a betting pool and the odds
are against you.

>Why you are so afraid of your wife finding out about your behavior
>will be interesting to watch unfold now ...

Sounds kinky though ......
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 19:06 GMT
>>Who knows? She has munged her headers to the point where knowing where she
>>is is not possible. A sure sign of a guilty conscience.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>and Nidffier (all Quacks in Drag) ... can't tell where I'm posting
>from.

She's in Costa Rica living it up on charitable donations from what I
read.

Ilena say it isn't so.

Joel

>Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
>Probert's husband?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>www.humanticsfoundation.com/
Ilena Rose - 15 Oct 2004 20:17 GMT
>>>Who knows? She has munged her headers to the point where knowing where she
>>>is is not possible. A sure sign of a guilty conscience.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Ilena say it isn't so.

It's absolutely not true ... what you just spread is Quack Crap spread
by those of the Ragtag and Andy's Posse ... in fact, Susan Schaezler
of this idiocy has been saying that for 9 years (that I was living off
of donations) ... it's all been lies ...

www.humanticsfoundation.com/andysposse.htm

In fact, I know of no one who has worked to help the women harmed by
breast implants who has even come near to breaking even with the money
out of pocket spent ... personally ... I've spent well over $100,000
of my own money to keep the risks of breast implants (and the risks of
the propaganda by the industry) before Usenet and other medium ...

Wacked out Harasser and Liar Polevoy even has Nidiffer write that I
have spent donations to pay for defending myself against Barrett's
SLAPP suit ... totally false ... but will be very helpful to me should
our case go back to Superior Court ... as well as Ms McPhee's
testimony before that court of her experience as the target of "Vera
Teasdale" Polevoy ....

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

>>Why would my whereabouts be of import to English teacher, Sandra
>>Probert's husband?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>>
>>www.humanticsfoundation.com/
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Oct 2004 22:28 GMT
>> REPLY
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>Path:

Yeah we better keep quiet though. I hear the Costa Rican cops are hot
on the trail ......
Ilena Rose - 16 Oct 2004 13:37 GMT
>>> REPLY
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Yeah we better keep quiet though. I hear the Costa Rican cops are hot
>on the trail ......

O really Joelly ... just between us ... let me know whose libel you
are spreading about me ...

If I should lose in the Supreme Court ... reposting libel like you and
Ted Nidiffer and others are doing ... will be actionable ...
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 14:49 GMT
>O really Joelly ... just between us ... let me know whose libel you
>are spreading about me ...
>
>If I should lose in the Supreme Court ... reposting libel like you and
>Ted Nidiffer and others are doing ... will be actionable ...

Now now Ilena ,,, you know its not libel if I mention what I HEARD.

Is that libel by you?

Joel
Ilena Rose - 16 Oct 2004 15:25 GMT
>>O really Joelly ... just between us ... let me know whose libel you
>>are spreading about me ...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Now now Ilena ,,, you know its not libel if I mention what I HEARD.

Nope ... that's what the Supreme Court is deciding in your buddy
"Vera's" case against me ... if reposting libel is libel ...

So who are you quoting?

Usually you quote your buddy Quack Barrett ... is that whose lies you
are reposting now?
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 17:37 GMT
>Nope ... that's what the Supreme Court is deciding in your buddy
>"Vera's" case against me ... if reposting libel is libel ...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Usually you quote your buddy Quack Barrett ... is that whose lies you
>are reposting now?

I can't say ... my attorney does not allow me to comment on ongoing
cases .......
Ilena Rose - 16 Oct 2004 18:33 GMT
>>Nope ... that's what the Supreme Court is deciding in your buddy
>>"Vera's" case against me ... if reposting libel is libel ...
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I can't say ... my attorney does not allow me to comment on ongoing
>cases .......

Well ... you're more than foolish to post lies about me ... especially
from my losing Plaintiff, Quack Steve "Dr Sue'm and Lose'm" Barrett
...

That's what the Supreme Court case is about ... reposting potentiallly
libelous material ... exactly what you are doing.

www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 19:52 GMT
>>>Nope ... that's what the Supreme Court is deciding in your buddy
>>>"Vera's" case against me ... if reposting libel is libel ...
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Well ... you're more than foolish to post lies about me ... especially
>from my losing Plaintiff, Quack Steve "Dr Sue'm and Lose'm" Barrett

I posted nothing about you .. I posted about me!

I stated with, "I heard rumor that ...."

So I guess I have not posted FACTS that are not true.

Joel

>...
>
>That's what the Supreme Court case is about ... reposting potentiallly
>libelous material ... exactly what you are doing.
>
>www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 19:53 GMT
>>>Nope ... that's what the Supreme Court is deciding in your buddy
>>>"Vera's" case against me ... if reposting libel is libel ...
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>www.humanticsfoundation.com/quacklibelsuit.htm

Hey!

Nice photo!

You are still kinda cute!

Joely
W_B - 16 Oct 2004 21:57 GMT
>Hey!
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Joely

I say she needs a boob job.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Joel M. Eichen - 16 Oct 2004 23:29 GMT
>>Hey!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>I say she needs a boob job.

Oh boy, you are gonna be in so much trouble ........
W_B - 17 Oct 2004 06:03 GMT
>>>Hey!
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Oh boy, you are gonna be in so much trouble ........

Why ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Jan - 17 Oct 2004 07:35 GMT
>From: W_B no_one@nowhere.net

Not Dentists, TOXICOLOGIST AND RESEARCHERS!

> What toxicologists and medical researchers say about amalgam
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------
>
> A 1995 symposium report sums up the scientific controversy over amalgam in
this
> way:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> substantial amounts of mercury from such fillings are released and absorbed,
> causing mercury to accumulate in organs and tissues, in pregnant women even
in
> the fetus.
> Although the health consequences of the accumulation of mercury in the human
> body are not yet fully understood, mercury is receiving increasing attention
as
> an immunotoxic element and for this reason it is suspected to play a role in
> the development of a variety of chronic diseases.
> Proponents of amalgam consider these claims to be largely unproven. They also
> point out that many of the symptoms attributed to chronic mercury exposure
from
> amalgam fillings are too non-specific to be relevant, and they further argue
> that, in the absence of a suitable low-cost replacement, a ban of amalgam
would
> have serious practical and fiscal consequences.
> However, in veiw of the mounting opposition against the use of amalgam,
dental
> professionals in many countries are increasingly revising their previous
> positions and public officials are preparing regulations for the restricted
use
> and eventual ban of all amalgam-based dental materials. [1]
> The following quotes are mostly from researchers who have contributed
> significantly to current knowledge about the health risks of amalgam.