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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / October 2004Bridge work - bill too high?
My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for $37,950.00. (This bill doesn't include the implants, which were done by somebody else.) I'm writing to ask if anybody can tell me if this bill is high. My father lives in New York City. Here is a retyped copy of the invoice. 10 implant parts @ $225 each = $2,250 10 custom abutments in gold alloy @ $1,100 each = $11,000 13 units bridgework @ $1,900 each = $24,700 Total: $37,950 Ouch. > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Total: $37,950 >Ouch. BUT I admire the guy's credit! Joel >> My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work >> (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Total: $37,950 "Ouch" and Whew. Wonder how the mouth looks. The sky's the limit, but do the teeth match. Sounds like enough bridges, implants and abutments for 3 mouths. The real puzzler is the l3 units bridgework. Where do they all fit. 3 to a unit, times l3 =39??? Gail >"Ouch" and Whew. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Gail Yeah its a tough sell to convince someone they need forty or fifty crowns ...... Most people consider the abutment tooth to be a unit so 13 x 1 = 13 jwn dds > "Ouch" and Whew. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gail >"Ouch" and Whew. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Gail Faulty math. Each 'unit' is one tooth. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>"Ouch" and Whew. >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Faulty math. OK, three times 13 is thirty eight??? >Each 'unit' is one tooth. >>>Where do they all fit. 3 to a unit, times l3 =39??? >>> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >OK, three times 13 is thirty eight??? 13 'units' = 13 teeth -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Total: $37,950 Wow. There are a few guys who command those kind of fees, like Dennis Tarnow, who is great. You want the best, you gotta pay. Was there no pre-treatment plan or estimate? Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > Wow. There are a few guys who command those kind of fees, like Dennis >Tarnow, who is great. You want the best, you gotta pay. > Was there no pre-treatment plan or estimate? > >Steve When the bill came, I would have written, ADDRESSEE UNKNOWN R-T-S My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a surprise. > > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work > > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Steve No offense, but that's like seeing a car on the show room floor and telling the salesman you'll take it. Just send you the bill. Bad move by the dentist to not explain treatment and give an estimate. Bad move to have treatment rendered without asking for one. Even Donald Trump would probably want an estimate. Fawks > My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a surprise. > No offense, but that's like seeing a car on the show room floor and > telling the salesman you'll take it. Just send you the bill. > > Bad move by the dentist to not explain treatment and give an estimate. > > Bad move to have treatment rendered without asking for one. Yup > Even Donald Trump would probably want an estimate. > > Fawks Mr. Bankruptcy Again would be paying cash in advance at my place. carabelli carabelli >> No offense, but that's like seeing a car on the show room floor and >> telling the salesman you'll take it. Just send you the bill. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Mr. Bankruptcy Again would be paying cash in advance at my place. Mr. Bankruptcy appeared on the Forbes 400 list ......... he has around $2.3 billion! Trump CASINO is the one in trouble, not TRUMP himself! >carabelli > >carabelli > >> No offense, but that's like seeing a car on the show room floor and > >> telling the salesman you'll take it. Just send you the bill. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Mr. Bankruptcy appeared on the Forbes 400 list ......... he has around > $2.3 billion! I'm sure that's a great source of solace to the casino creditors. carabelli This brings to mind, someone I know, when her husband was in the hospital and dying of cancer, He said to the man sweeping the floor, "I'll trade places with you." A successfull business man, sometimes reallhy too sad to even relate. I have often thought foolishly at my stupidity, that I would give $37,000 or any amount more if possible to have a complete set of natural teeth with no problems. There are such people. My father was one at 90, the Mediteranean diet must have been better. Gail It does little good to wish for that which cannot be. Time goes forward and memories go backward. Take the memories forward, complete with lessons learned or not yet learned ... and that is life. TW > This brings to mind, someone I know, when her husband was in the hospital and > dying of cancer, He said to the man sweeping the floor, "I'll trade places [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Gail >It does little good to wish for that which cannot be. Time goes forward Not necessarily ... then again I have been reading too much Steven Hawkings ..... >and memories go backward. Take the memories forward, complete with >lessons learned or not yet learned ... and that is life. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >> Gail Time as most of us *know it* ... ;-) TW > >It does little good to wish for that which cannot be. Time goes forward > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > >> > >> Gail >Time as most of us *know it* ... ;-) >TW Time in a bottle .... Jim Croce (?) >> >It does little good to wish for that which cannot be. Time goes forward >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> >> >> Gail Time (and space) in cyberspace ... > >Time as most of us *know it* ... ;-) > >TW [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> >> > >> >> Gail Thanks for putting common sense in such good words. Common sense is not always so common. Gail >> No offense, but that's like seeing a car on the show room floor and >> telling the salesman you'll take it. Just send you the bill. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >carabelli Hi Carabelli/carabelli, Here's the list: ************************** Donald Trump's net worth edged up $100 million to $2.6 billion, despite the financial problems of his casino empire. But Trump slipped three spots on the list, falling to 74 from 71. ************************** Okay, I was off by a mere $300 million! Joel/joel Pizza/pizza. *** Posted on Fri, Sep. 24, 2004 400 richest have net worth of $1 trillion On Forbes' list of the wealthiest, less room for mere millionaires. By Madlen Read Associated Press NEW YORK - It looks like the U.S. billionaires' club isn't quite as exclusive as it once was. There are now 313 billionaires in the country, the largest number ever and a huge jump over the 262 counted last year, according to Forbes magazine, which released its annual ranking yesterday of the 400 richest Americans. The combined net worth of the 400 rose $45 billion and reached $1 trillion this year for the first time since 2000, before the dot-com bust wiped out billions of dollars in wealth. The biggest billionaire of all again was Microsoft Corp. founder Bill Gates, whose $48 billion in estimated wealth was up $2 billion from 2003. Gates was again followed by investor Warren Buffett with $41 billion, the list's biggest dollar gainer with a $5 billion increase, and Microsoft cofounder Paul Allen, who held the No. 3 spot although his net worth fell $2 billion to $20 billion. Members of the Walton family, whose fortune comes from Wal-Mart Stores Inc., again swept spots four through eight, with each having estimated wealth of $18 billion. The only tweak in the top 10 from last year came from Dell Computer Inc.'s Michael Dell and Oracle Corp.'s Lawrence Ellison, now No. 9 and No. 10 respectively after swapping places from 2003. Dell Computer stock has weathered the tech slump relatively well over the last year, giving Michael Dell a net worth of $14.2 billion. Ellison, whose stock has suffered, had $13.7 billion in holdings, a drop from $18 billion last year. There are 45 new names on the list, including Google's Sergey Brin and Larry E. Page - also the youngest members of the 400 at 31. The two tied for No. 43 with $4 billion each after their company's stock went public in August. Forbes senior editor Peter Newcomb attributed the overall gains in the list to the improving economy, as well as a good year in the financial sector and industries including food and wine. Casino mogul Steve Wynn, who climbed to No. 215 from No. 377 last year, saw the largest percentage increase in wealth - a 100 percent jump to $1.3 billion from $650 million. Last year's biggest dollar gainer, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, received the less-coveted title of biggest dollar loser this year with an $800 million drop. Donald Trump's net worth edged up $100 million to $2.6 billion, despite the financial problems of his casino empire. But Trump slipped three spots on the list, falling to 74 from 71. Returning to the list after a year's absence was Teresa Heinz Kerry, wife of Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. Teresa Heinz Kerry's $750 million in wealth tied her for last place. Fifty-four people dropped off the list from last year, including such notables as Disney's Michael D. Eisner, BET's Robert Johnson and Monster.com's Andrew McKelvey. The 400 includes 51 women - up just one from last year, but the average net worth of the women is $2.8 billion, higher than the list's average of $2.5 billion. Only 50 names remain of the original 400 from the list's debut in 1982. While some died or divvied up their assets, more than half were simply surpassed. And while New York City still claims the most 400 list members per city with 38, the state of California, with 98 members, again outdistanced the state of New York, with 49. "There's been a huge shift from east to west, and that trend is not slowing down at all," Newcomb said. Forbes compiled its list by estimating the value of stock and other assets such as real estate held by the wealthiest Americans, Newcomb said. Forbes used the stock prices of publicly held companies as of Aug. 31; for privately held companies, the magazine estimated a fair-market value based on the stocks of their publicly traded peers. If the economy continues its upward trend, it is likely the 400 will grow even wealthier, Newcomb said, adding: "It won't be too long before our entire list consists of billionaires." > Bad move by the dentist to not explain treatment and give an estimate. He probably did. Have you ever played that game in kindergarten where they whispers a message into the neighbors ear and it gets changed by the end of the circle? That is as good a reason as any for the dentist to have outlined the proposed treatment plan and fee structure *in writing* in advance. I don't know if the man always did business with his dentist in "that way" or if this was a one-time adventure. I just can't imagine that happening. That doesn't mean it didn't, of course. Maybe the man has enough personal money that it really didn't matter how much it cost ... he knew what he wanted and the cost really wasn't an issue. People do strange things with their money (or lack of it). TW > > Bad move by the dentist to not explain treatment and give an estimate. > > He probably did. Have you ever played that game in kindergarten where they > whispers a message into the neighbors ear and it gets changed by the end of > the circle? >> Bad move by the dentist to not explain treatment and give an estimate. > >He probably did. Have you ever played that game in kindergarten where they >whispers a message into the neighbors ear and it gets changed by the end of >the circle? His bill is protected, providing the patient is not judgement-proof! That goes on lots around here ....... >Bad move to have treatment rendered without asking for one. > >Even Donald Trump would probably want an estimate. > >Fawks Yep. He's fired. -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com > My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a > surprise. I find that very hard to beleive. >My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a surprise. Its time for him to change his name and go underground. Joel >> > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work >> > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >> Steve > My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a surprise. #1--the dentist should have given a complete treatment plan to your father, preferably in writing, for a treatment plan this big. #2--Failing that, your father should have asked for one before treatment this extensive. Allowing the dentist to proceed with treatment could be considered tacit acceptance of the treatment plan. I don't know the legal issues, but someone dropped the ball on the communication issues. Hopefully, your father received excellent treatment. Steve >>>My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work >>>(which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> >>Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 After the treatment was done ? Bad business if you ask me. >My father wasn't given an estimate or a treatment plan: the bill was a surprise. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> Steve -- W_B Take out the G'RBAGE wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com A follow-up: My father talked to his periodontist, who called the dentist. My father wasn't given a treatment plan or estimate. My father and his dentist had a very pleasant and friendly conversation by telephone and the dentist apologized for not giving a treatment plan. My father's dentist said that my father should pay whatever he felt was reasonable. Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts and opinions. In the end it worked out okay -- the $37,950 bill was quite scary! > > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work > > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Steve > A follow-up: My father talked to his periodontist, who called the > dentist. My father wasn't given a treatment plan or estimate. My > father and his dentist had a very pleasant and friendly conversation > by telephone and the dentist apologized for not giving a treatment > plan. My father's dentist said that my father should pay whatever he > felt was reasonable. Well, clearly the dentist realizes the treatment plan should have been delivered and approved. I'm a little surprised that, after your father gave the dentist a tacit carte blanche to proceed with treatment, the dentist gave your father essentially carte blanche to determine the fee. Ordinarily at this point you'd sit down and negotiate a final figure that everyone can live with. Steve > Thanks to everyone who posted their thoughts and opinions. In the end > it worked out okay -- the $37,950 bill was quite scary! [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >>Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> A follow-up: My father talked to his periodontist, who called the >> dentist. My father wasn't given a treatment plan or estimate. My [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well, clearly the dentist realizes the treatment plan should have been >delivered and approved. Maybe not. If the patient is well-heeled, its like the attorney who does not seem to be able to get a handle on how much the fee will be ...... > I'm a little surprised that, after your father >gave the dentist a tacit carte blanche to proceed with treatment, the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >>> >>>Steve >My father had implants and bridge work. I agtee... TOO HIGH ... Now I will read what you wrote ...... >At the end of the bridge work >(which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for >$37,950.00. Cool! He must be rich! > (This bill doesn't include the implants, which were done >by somebody else.) I'm writing to ask if anybody can tell me if this >bill is high. YUP high. > My father lives in New York City. Here is a retyped copy >of the invoice. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Total: $37,950 Did the doctor and the patient discuss all this beforehand? One neighbor put in a pool for $3,000 while the other guy spent close to $60,000. They both had contracts ...... JOEL Here?s what you should do the next time: come to Finland, have your bridges and implants made to high scandinavian standards, live at a nice hotel, fly around the world every time you visit your dentist - and still save money. >Here´s what you should do the next time: come to Finland, have your bridges >and implants made to high scandinavian standards, live at a nice hotel, fly >around the world every time you visit your dentist - and still save money. Plus they got .......... ummmmmmmmmm, What's that fish you guys eat? I fergit. Joel Lude-FISH or sounds something like that ........ Joel M. Eichen kam, sah und schrieb: >>Here´s what you should do the next time: come to Finland, have your bridges >>and implants made to high scandinavian standards, live at a nice hotel, fly [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Lude-FISH or sounds something like that ........ Lute fisk? You don't need teeth to eat that but a stron stomach and lots of Aquavit. ;-) Heiner. THAT's it! What kind of fish is it anyway? Joel >> Lude-FISH or sounds something like that ........ > >Lute fisk? You don't need teeth to eat that but a stron stomach and lots of >Aquavit. ;-) > >Heiner. Joel M. Eichen kam, sah und schrieb: [Lute fisk] > THAT's it! > > What kind of fish is it anyway? Cod. Must be pretty awful to eat that. Do you understand German? http://www.science-shop.de/sixcms/media.php/370/leseprobe21. HTH Heiner. I think the original Brooklyn Bridge cost about this much. > My father had implants and bridge work. At the end of the bridge work > (which took about a year to complete), he received a bill for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Total: $37,950 > I think the original Brooklyn Bridge cost about this much. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > > 10 implant parts @ $225 each = $2,250 This number sounds on the low side > > 10 custom abutments in gold alloy @ $1,100 each = $11,000 possible. > > 13 units bridgework @ $1,900 each = $24,700 Sounds on the high end but you said he had it down in New York Possibly Park Avenue? > > Total: $37,950 I'm a little confused as to how many teeth were being replaced. Are we discussing13 or 23 (10 abutments + 13 pontics) ? A physical count would go a long way... SignatureRoy DotSeaEh is .ca | > I think the original Brooklyn Bridge cost about this much. | > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] | | > > Total: $37,950 |
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