Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / January 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Dental lab jobs? Germany-->USA ?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
YEAH - 11 Aug 2004 05:55 GMT
Hi,

a friend of mine just finished her 3-year dental lab training in Germany and
wants to know how she can apply for a job in the USA since her boyfriend is
already studying over there. As far as I know, the dental lab technology
programs in the US are two years long, so I think she won't have any
disadvantages regarding her training. But I want to know if anyone could
tell me what would be the best approach for looking for a job like that in
the US.

Thanks

Cristian
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S. - 11 Aug 2004 12:34 GMT
>Hi,
>
>a friend of mine just finished her 3-year dental lab training in Germany and
>wants to know how she can apply for a job in the USA

Too many labs outsourcing to Malaysia!

>since her boyfriend is
>already studying over there. As far as I know, the dental lab technology
>programs in the US are two years long, so I think she won't have any
>disadvantages regarding her training. But I want to know if anyone could
>tell me what would be the best approach for looking for a job like that in
>the US.

E-mail labs ......

>Thanks
>
>Cristian
Etukee - 11 Aug 2004 13:26 GMT
lab technicians don't have to have a formal ed in the usa
e
Dr Steve - 11 Aug 2004 13:49 GMT
Good Dental Laboratory Technicians are difficult to find in the USA.  Your
acquaintance should have no difficulty finding a job in any region of the
USA.  Depending on whether the training is in acrylic, casting, waxing, RPD,
porcelain, etc. will determine pay levels.   Currently, there is no
*required* training for dental technicians in the USA.  Most are trained on
the job-site.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Cristian
Krzysztof Polanowski - 12 Aug 2004 08:16 GMT
coz We ought to make some lab period ourselves.The project,blocking , some
teeth adjusting and similar :))
> Good Dental Laboratory Technicians are difficult to find in the USA.  Your
> acquaintance should have no difficulty finding a job in any region of the
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> >
> > Cristian
igor@jobyjob.com - 13 Dec 2004 22:38 GMT
www.jobyjob.com

Whether you are looking for a job or an employee, JobyJob will locate
what you have in mind. The fastest and best way to change your career
or help to change someone else's future. Use our new Internet and
wireless technology to look for a job. Just setup a wireless agent and
wait until job matching your keywords will be posted. As soon as it
happens you would receive an SMS, which will lead you to the Job
Description page that you'll be able to read right on from your cell
phone. If you like it, just click send resume link and your resume
emailed to the employer right from your cell phone. As easy as it is.
New and very need. It lets you look for a job even if you are not at
home and guarantees that your resume will be one of the first that
employer received.

www.jobyjob.com
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 15 Dec 2004 02:39 GMT
sent out a resume  to labs looking to hire.
I think the immigration issue will be challenging unless the boyfriend
is a US citizen then marriage.
Roy Brown - 15 Dec 2004 03:13 GMT
Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and the
US will work to their advantage though.

Back in the early 80's when Earl Wilcox needed someone with my skills, he flew
me down to Hartford, put me up for a week to show me the area and was prepared
to sign for my green card. How much trouble did you have getting in Alex?

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

| sent out a resume  to labs looking to hire.
| I think the immigration issue will be challenging unless the boyfriend
| is a US citizen then marriage.
The Webby - 15 Dec 2004 04:29 GMT
> Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and
> the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> prepared
> to sign for my green card. How much trouble did you have getting in Alex?

Roy, are you prepared or willing to tell us more???? I'd like to know
more.

TW
Roy Brown - 15 Dec 2004 05:03 GMT
| > Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and
| > the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
|
| TW

About me or Alex?

Me 1st. A technical rep from Howmedica/Austenal I had dealt with for years
suggested me to Earl to run his casting department. Earl called me, sent a plane
ticket a few days later and we met for a week. Wethersfield CT (sp?) was a
beautiful place, the people in the lab were wonderful. The job was tempting. The
offer came with 1 green card not 2, unless I was married to a certain young
lady. After spending what seemed like an eternity in the presence of tears like
Niagara Falls, I decided to stay North of the 49th. IIRC part of the agreement
was that I go back to school to get my license. A decade or so later I finally
gave in to the pressure and got married to the same young lady. Didn't think the
job offer still stood. Been with the same lady nearly 3 decades now.

As for Alex, he was not always from California. Used to live a few miles from
me. Educated here too.

Roy
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 15 Dec 2004 09:10 GMT
Something is messed up with GOOGLE GROUPS, All of a sudden I can not
see my posts.
Somebody needs to reboot something.

If it wasn't for Roy Quoting my response I would never have known that
I was asked a question.

I had no trouble because when I moved to the US I was under 21 and fell
in the dependent portion of my dad's green card for a job offer.

> Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and the
> US will work to their advantage though.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> | I think the immigration issue will be challenging unless the boyfriend
> | is a US citizen then marriage.
W_B - 15 Dec 2004 21:37 GMT
>Something is messed up with GOOGLE GROUPS, All of a sudden I can not
>see my posts.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>I had no trouble because when I moved to the US I was under 21 and fell
>in the dependent portion of my dad's green card for a job offer.

I've seen you post the same response to
PING: Dr. King about 12 to 14 times, could be more.
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Alexander Vasserman DDS - 16 Dec 2004 00:43 GMT
something was messed up today its working.
Vaughn - 15 Dec 2004 11:16 GMT
> Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and the
> US will work to their advantage though.

    It may or may not be "pubilcy declared" but there is no wide-spread
shortage of lab techs in the US.  Wages are so low that our local community
college closed its lab technology program over a decade ago; no students.
Dentistry is not a growth industry.  Besides, the work is too easily outsourced
to other countries.

Vaughn
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Dec 2004 12:36 GMT
>    It may or may not be "pubilcy declared" but there is no wide-spread
>shortage of lab techs in the US.  Wages are so low that our local community
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Vaughn

I agree. There is a large "off-sdhore" reorganization going on.
Roy Brown - 15 Dec 2004 14:27 GMT
| > Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and
| the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
|
| Vaughn

Vaughn, you hit the source of the problem stating "Wages are so low". The # of
colleges programs dropped from 49 to 28 in a decade. Try a Google search for
(shortage "dental technician") 766 hits. The problem is not limited to the US.

See page 6 of the document:
http://www.prosthodontics.org/cf-dbm/library/files/Summer04.pdf

The ACP is reaching out to address the particular

needs of the laboratory technician. The

College is especially concerned about the impending

acute shortage of technicians. That shortage,

combined with curriculum changes, will result in

a lowering of prosthetic standards in family dentistry.

The ACP has established an Alliance membership

status for dental laboratory technicians,

and provides them with quality, continuing education

opportunities. The College also leads a

task force with the American Dental Association

to analyze and act upon the issues impacting technicians.

From the page:

http://tinyurl.com/7x4a9

. The National Association of Dental Laboratories (NADL) has predicted that in
10 years, 40% of all current laboratories will be gone because of a shortage of
dental technicians.

. Technicians that did the majority of prosthetic work delivered in 2001 were
over 63 years of age.

. Thirty-two of 62 ADA-accredited dental laboratory programs have closed since
1983.

. The number of applications to the remaining dental technology programs has
decreased steadily since 1994.

. The number of technicians leaving the profession is increasing.

-----

Hopefully we will hear from Elizzy and Bammer on this issue

Roy
Vaughn - 15 Dec 2004 22:34 GMT
> See page 6 of the document:
> http://www.prosthodontics.org/cf-dbm/library/files/Summer04.pdf

    With my dialup connection, I gave up on the pdf.

> The ACP is reaching out to address the particular
>
> needs of the laboratory technician.

    What is the ACP?

> From the page:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> 10 years, 40% of all current laboratories will be gone because of a shortage of
> dental technicians.

    There could be three techs for each lab job, and it would still be in the
NADL's interest to make the above case.  The NADL is mostly an association of
lab owners (as opposed to technicians).  The more available labor, the better it
is for lab owners.  Also, (as a minor point) the NADL makes money from
technician certification; the more the merrier.

Vaughn
Roy Brown - 16 Dec 2004 03:33 GMT
"Vaughn" wrote |

| > See page 6 of the document:
| > http://www.prosthodontics.org/cf-dbm/library/files/Summer04.pdf
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
|
| Vaughn

From their website:

http://www.prosthodontics.org/cf-dbm/about/p-about.cfm

     The American College of Prosthodontists

     Founded in 1970, the American College of Prosthodontists is a non-profit
educational and scientific organization created to represent the needs and
interests of Prosthodontists within organized dentistry and to the public by
providing a means for stimulating awareness and interest in the field of
Prosthodontics. It is the goal of the ACP to be the global resource for all
aspects of the specialty.
     As the ADA-recognized organization for the specialty of Prosthodontics,
the ACP has developed a number of tangible and intangible benefits for the
dental professional. The Journal of Prosthodontics is one of the most respected
scientific journals. The Prosthodontic Forum puts members in touch with other
association members via the Internet to discuss "hot topics" and exchange
information. The ACP Annual Session provides access to renowned educational
offerings and the latest innovations and technologies.

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Etukee - 16 Dec 2004 13:30 GMT
The NADL makes no money from the NBC. It just isn't happening Vaughn.
I think that the industry as a whole is worried about a tech shortage. It is
not entry level non trained but the formally educated and with experience that
are going going gone. The issue is going to effect the quality of care when
couple with the fact dental students no longer have a requirement to learn
dental lab procedures in dental school.
The  majority of well educated experience small lab owner will be the winner,
we will be in demand.
In canada the displaced techs are tooling up into clinical pros. techs and
denturists.
elizzy
Roy Brown - 16 Dec 2004 16:44 GMT
| The NADL makes no money from the NBC. It just isn't happening Vaughn.
| I think that the industry as a whole is worried about a tech shortage. It is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| denturists.
| elizzy

Two more comments.

IMO The insurance industry is partly to blame by setting limits on lab fees to a
% of clinical.

Secondly, the local tech association developed a fee guide based on time, skill
levels, materials and associated costs. Then they factored in labour costs
determined by current wages earned in other occupations with similar
responsibilities and education. Most labs raised their fees once it was
released. Yet those fees are still at only 60% of what the association
determined would be necessary to provide pay equity to other occupations.
Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Roy Brown - 17 Dec 2004 06:54 GMT
From the been there, done that - hard knock school of life. IMHO there are 3
types of techs. The "masters" or select few who are not part of the equation and
require no explanation. They have captured their select market that is willing
to pay for a consistently better product. Dental Technicians and Bench Techs are
different folk.

Bench techs are hired off the street and trained by Dental Technicians or Mega
labs to do one or two things. Maybe after they have been around a few years they
are allowed to do more. On one hand they are what allows the industry to keep
prices down. On the other hand they are the an integral part of the problem. As
long as the Mega labs continue to use bench techs the need for properly trained
technicians is diminished. Pricing is determined by economy of scale, and the
Mega Lab has a distinct economic advantage.

The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand how
their work fits into the grand scheme of a prosthesis. The person waxing up a
cast partial has no idea of where someone is going to place the teeth 5 or 6
bench techs down the line. Nor do they understand how the acrylic will be
finished. Factor in the reduced training dentists now get in the area of
prosthetics due to curriculum changes and the problem is compounded. Dental
techs are much more knowledgeable but their work is frequently affected by the
pricing of the Mega Labs.

There is no easy way out of this one. IMO the best long term solution would be
to raise the bar for the bench techs. That is both in training and salary. That
in turn makes the offshore labs more appealing to the price conscious. Having
myself started as a bench tech in a mega lab, I don't see any real difference
between the offshore lab and the mega lab other than geographic location. I
still recall learning to trim a cast frame work, the quality standards that had
to be met were "Lotsa high shine and no wave". The other thing required will be
to get the dental schools raising the bar on prosthetic training.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that in some areas only a dentist can
provide a denture. That dentist may have gone through school without ever having
to touch a denture. The dentist can then send a denture case to the lab thinking
the Dental Technician will do the job right. I've personally witnessed many
cases that have been through the lab with all the work being done by bench
techs. Some of these cases have never been seen by the dental technician. All
this under a system of checks and balances set up to protect the patient. Scary
isn't it?

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

| The NADL makes no money from the NBC. It just isn't happening Vaughn.
| I think that the industry as a whole is worried about a tech shortage. It is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
| denturists.
| elizzy
Vaughn - 17 Dec 2004 11:16 GMT
> The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand how
> their work fits into the grand scheme of a prosthesis.

    My wife went through a two-year lab technology program and had already
passed the written portion of the certification exam when she was hired at a
lab.  Nice Huh?

    ....Actually not.  In that school she was assigned fewer cases in the last
school year than she was expected to do in a single day at the lab.  I am a
great believer in education, but that school did little to prepare her for the
reality of a lab job.  50-50 real lab/classroom program would have been much
better.

Vaughn
Joel M. Eichen - 17 Dec 2004 11:52 GMT
>> The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand how
>> their work fits into the grand scheme of a prosthesis.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>     ....Actually not.  In that school she was assigned fewer cases in the last
>school year than she was expected to do in a single day at the lab.

Hi Vaughn,

What was the cost of the dental lab program and how did she select
this line of work?

Joel

> I am a
>great believer in education, but that school did little to prepare her for the
>reality of a lab job.  50-50 real lab/classroom program would have been much
>better.

YUP, Drexel University was always a leader in work/study. Its a
university with a high emphasis on engineering.

Joel

>Vaughn
Etukee - 17 Dec 2004 13:25 GMT
The issue of proficiency vs competency is a big one in dental education of
technicians. Technicians aren't awarded the luxury of "practicing" dental
technology in the same manor a dentist is. We have to hit the ground running.
I believe that there needs to be different levels of expertise in a lab. I
think an appropriately trained technician assistant has a place in dental
technology too.
I  am now recognized as a DT by Canada (Alberta) and am a CDT here in the Us.
In Canada I can train up into the RDT status or the Master DT status, the
Clinincal Pros. Technician catagory there is just more opportunity.
I really do think that the offshore thing will be the death knoll for the
voluntary dt formal ed programs.Part of the cry about not enough tecks is to
mask the shift of work off shore.
As this is happening the Denturist movement is gathering speed here in the Us
and the concept of a clinical technician that is emerging in Europe and parts
of Canada will offer a viable alternative to technicians who might be
displaced.
All you have to do is visit the "ethics" section of DT to see the paradigm
shift in offshoring and ant tech forum to see a shift towards denturity.
e
Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 07:38 GMT
I feel part of the issue up here is that the technician has to master all the
areas to be licenced. I've always felt that the US had a better way, letting
someone get licenced in their area of specialty, working up to a "masters"
level.

I have not followed up the education here locally, but I do know they have moved
to a co-op program. This partially addresses the proficiency vs. competency
issue. There is talk of making both the Denturist and Dental Technician Programs
4 years from the current 3.

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

| The issue of proficiency vs competency is a big one in dental education of
| technicians. Technicians aren't awarded the luxury of "practicing" dental
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
| shift in offshoring and ant tech forum to see a shift towards denturity.
| e
Etukee - 18 Dec 2004 15:53 GMT
Roy,they also register dental technicians with only one specialty area. they
have the DT and the RDT. The DT credential is a restricted credential. I
believe that a broad base formal education is important. When I went to dt
school we hat an oppertunity for 4 reguired semesters and 2 addition exta
credit ones. I took all six and feel I am a better technician for it.
elizzy
cdt,dt
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 16:32 GMT
>Roy,they also register dental technicians with only one specialty area. they
>have the DT and the RDT. The DT credential is a restricted credential. I
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>elizzy
>cdt,dt

I would be happier if the certification had more to do with "hands-on
skills."

That is my main concern.

Joel
Etukee - 18 Dec 2004 19:02 GMT
Joel the program was set up two hours hands on for every 1 hour lecture.
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 20:27 GMT
>Joel the program was set up two hours hands on for every 1 hour lecture.

If it were me, I would prefer 10 hours hands on for 15 minutes
lecture.

A great technician has learned the tricks of esthetics.

I do not care if they are intellectually curious or not. I just want
to see great results!

MASTERPIECES!

With no exaggeration.

That is what gets my business EVERY TIME!

Joel
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT
> I do not care if they are intellectually curious or not. I just want > to
> see great results! MASTERPIECES! With no exaggeration. That is what gets
> my business EVERY TIME! Joel

The local generalist  (who gives us courses) who gets cards at Xmas from
PEBranemark would disagree: he wants a tech that can follow instructions
but also think for himself.
Just another view
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Vaughn Simon - 17 Dec 2004 19:15 GMT
> What was the cost of the dental lab program

    It was an AS degree program at our local community college, so the fee
was the cost two years of credi hourss (whatever that was at the time).

> and how did she select this line of work?

    Funny!  She went there to register for their RN program and got "sold"
on the dental lab tech program by the school's career counseling office.
Was given some literature about the big money that dental lab techs make,
and how they are in demand, and was told about how clean and safe the job is
compared to nursing.  (wrong, wrong and wrong)

Vaughn
Joel M. Eichen - 17 Dec 2004 22:40 GMT
>> What was the cost of the dental lab program
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>and how they are in demand, and was told about how clean and safe the job is
>compared to nursing.  (wrong, wrong and wrong)

The tip off was the cane in the corner of the office that's used to
hook in new customers.....

>Vaughn
Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 07:30 GMT
| > The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand how
| > their work fits into the grand scheme of a prosthesis.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
|
| Vaughn

Did your wife study all 5 areas of tech or just one?

Not that it makes any difference, but I was doing full production as a bench
tech before I went to school. While at school I slowed down quite a bit while I
learned how to incorporate proper theory and techniques into my work. I also
learnt that if you finished much sooner than the rest, you would be sent back to
redo your work. I soon learned to slow down and my work became more "acceptable"
to the instructors.

--
Roy
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 12:38 GMT
>| > The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand
>how
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
>Did your wife study all 5 areas of tech or just one?

Roy, what are the five areas?

Joel

>Not that it makes any difference, but I was doing full production as a bench
>tech before I went to school. While at school I slowed down quite a bit while I
>learned how to incorporate proper theory and techniques into my work. I also
>learnt that if you finished much sooner than the rest, you would be sent back to
>redo your work. I soon learned to slow down and my work became more "acceptable"
>to the instructors.
Vaughn - 18 Dec 2004 14:52 GMT
> >| > The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand
> >how
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> >redo your work. I soon learned to slow down and my work became more "acceptable"
> >to the instructors.
Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 19:57 GMT
"Joel M. Eichen" wrote

| > >Did your wife study all 5 areas of tech or just one?
| >
| > Roy, what are the five areas?
| >
| > Joel

Full & Partial Dentures
Cast partial frameworks
Ortho
Fixed prosthodontics
Ceramics

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 20:27 GMT
>"Joel M. Eichen" wrote
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>Fixed prosthodontics
>Ceramics

Where is,

(6) Presenting of the BILL?
Vaughn - 18 Dec 2004 14:57 GMT
> >Did your wife study all 5 areas of tech or just one?
>
> Roy, what are the five areas?

     (sorry about the previous blank post)

    I was afraid to ask...  She has always done C&B.

Let's see...
1) Model work
2) Waxing
3) Metal
4) Ceramic
5) Explaining to the dentist why the work is not there yet, even though the
patient is sitting in the chair.

Vaughn
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 15:33 GMT
>> >Did your wife study all 5 areas of tech or just one?
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>5) Explaining to the dentist why the work is not there yet, even though the
>patient is sitting in the chair.

I like number five ........

OR

(5) The presenting of the bill ........

>Vaughn
Etukee - 18 Dec 2004 15:55 GMT
The five specialty area are:
orthodontics`
ceramics
crown and bridge
partial dentures
dentures
Vaughn - 18 Dec 2004 16:00 GMT
Thanks!

Vaughn

> The five specialty area are:
> orthodontics`
> ceramics
> crown and bridge
> partial dentures
> dentures
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 16:37 GMT
>Thanks!
>
>Vaughn

But SMALL denture labs rarely make crowns and vise-versa.

I do not care what huge labs do because its impossible for the
customer (DENTIST) to pin down who is doing what anyway.

On a recent thread about Lunineers, Dr. Ibsen rushed on to tell people
not lto get the names for "THE GOOD TECHNICIAN" because so many people
participate in the construction of the product!

ME?

They always give me the guy who understands almost no English anyway.
The phone connection is lousy and when the phone goes dead, I shout,
"Come In Manila. Come In Manila."

Suddnely, the technician comes back on the line!

Joel

Hey! This is getting good. I gotta copy over to that thread.

Joel

>> The five specialty area are:
>> orthodontics`
>> ceramics
>> crown and bridge
>> partial dentures
>> dentures
Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 18:52 GMT
>On a recent thread about Lunineers, Dr. Ibsen rushed on to tell people
>not lto get the names for "THE GOOD TECHNICIAN" because so many people
>participate in the construction of the product!

Isn't he the King of Den-Mat?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 20:27 GMT
>>On a recent thread about Lunineers, Dr. Ibsen rushed on to tell people
>>not lto get the names for "THE GOOD TECHNICIAN" because so many people
>>participate in the construction of the product!
>
>Isn't he the King of Den-Mat?

YUP.

OWNER.

>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
>Troy, Michigan, USA
>
>Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 20:33 GMT
>>On a recent thread about Lunineers, Dr. Ibsen rushed on to tell people
>>not lto get the names for "THE GOOD TECHNICIAN" because so many people
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Den-Mart ?

Sounds like ?

Wal- ?

Hmmm...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT
> >>On a recent thread about Lunineers, Dr. Ibsen rushed on to tell people
> >>not lto get the names for "THE GOOD TECHNICIAN" because so many people
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Wal- ?
> W_B

They have two labs now: Florida and California.
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 16:11 GMT
>| > The disadvantage of this is that one bench tech does not really understand
>how
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>redo your work. I soon learned to slow down and my work became more "acceptable"
>to the instructors.

We had dinner last night with one of my DS classmates and his wife.
During the evening, the discussion of various clinical and "LAB" DS
instructors came up.  My friend reminded me of a "LAB" instructor who
was famous for looking at your work, putting it on the floor and
squashing your wax-up with his shoe.  My friend was relating how
traumatic this was to him.   I commented that I could have cared less.
I would just do another one even faster and offer it to him for
squashing.   I was fine with doing this all day.  At the end of the
day, the instructor learned to leave me alone. He could wt get me
upset. Plus, he began to realize I could do the wax-up  faster than he
could. This instructor left me alone for the remainder of the class.
The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
event to improve my skills.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 18:06 GMT
>The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
>event to improve my skills.
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

You are a rare man indeed.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 18 Dec 2004 18:06 GMT
> >The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
> >event to improve my skills.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

W_B,

Aren't we fortunate to have him (Dr. SM) in the world *and* as our dear  
friend?  Of course we are, George!

TW
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 18:58 GMT
>> >The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
>> >event to improve my skills.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
>TW

You're just really glad that we didn't feed the gators that day...
<hehe>

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 19:04 GMT
>>> >The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
>>> >event to improve my skills.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>You're just really glad that we didn't feed the gators that day...
><hehe>

That was why I made  you sit closer to water.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 20:47 GMT
>>>Aren't we fortunate to have him (Dr. SM) in the world *and* as our dear  
>>>friend?  Of course we are, George!
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Pfunny, U wuz above me...
A simpole [sic] flip...

Grab the ankle....

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
The Webby - 18 Dec 2004 19:25 GMT
> >> >The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
> >> >event to improve my skills.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE

You betjha!
TW
Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 18:53 GMT
>>The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
>>event to improve my skills.
>>..
>>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
>
>You are a rare man indeed.

Rather than fight the system, you need to embrace it.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 20:38 GMT
>>>The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
>>>event to improve my skills.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Guessing that you are talking to me.

I do embrace those who wish to stifle my creativity...

Just don't know when to quit and end up choking the
living sh*t out of them.

Ya like that ?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Advocate147 - 19 Dec 2004 02:05 GMT
"Guess that you are talking to me"

Yes, I am talking to you.   As suggested, get some rest, preferably with a
Valium.
At the moment, you have no creativity to stifle or encourage.

Gail
W_B - 19 Dec 2004 20:08 GMT
>"Guess that you are talking to me"
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>Gail

At least you are getting a little creative with your insults.

You don't know me IRL and never will.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 20:00 GMT
| >The trick was not to react the way he wanted me to, and to utilize the
| >event to improve my skills.
| >..
| >Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
|
| You are a rare man indeed.

Wish I had known how to do that back then

--
Roy
StovePipe - 17 Dec 2004 15:17 GMT
> ...cases that have been through the lab with all the work being done by bench
> techs. Some of these cases have never been seen by the dental technician. All
> this under a system of checks and balances set up to protect the patient.
> Scary isn't it?

All I know is that if there was any justice in this world at all, in
those bygone days where you were learning to be a bench press, you
would-a been in Dental school instead. Meaning today, you would be a
Prostho, and a really good one. But, there is no justice in this world,
you didn't have the $$$, and most people going to dental school are
being financed by Papa or the bank and they are doing it because they
think it is an easy way to $$$$. That's why we have so many drop out in
1st and 2nd year. Add to that the high percentage of students that are
already thinking of speciallizing in the fields where they don't have to
take difficult impressions ever again.

Further:

How many lab techs can do a good ovate pontic type bridge into a good
connective-tissue graft (like what Alex Vasserman has been describing)?
Our local guy who gives courses in prostho and implanto has shown us
some of these cases he's done, and they are beautiful. He has to do all
the perio surgery himself for that and his implant cases, because the
Perios here are basket cases. But you also need a lab tech that knows
how to make a good ovate, one who understands the emergence form and the
pressure on the tissue that is needed. Here in Quebec, in his opinion,
there is only ONE tech who can do it properly. This means that the
prostho work at the general level will go down in quality, IMO, because
so many Dentists and Techs are into (relatively easy) implants only.
JMO
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 07:45 GMT
|  This means that the
| prostho work at the general level will go down in quality, IMO, because
| so many Dentists and Techs are into (relatively easy) implants only.
| JMO
| SP
Signature


Rather ironic isn't it? A mere decade ago the profession was arguing that only
the specialists should be doing implants because of all the extra skills needed.
Now they are saying there is no reason a GP shouldn't be doing the simple cases
because they are so straight forward and predictable.

Roy

StovePipe - 18 Dec 2004 15:30 GMT
> |  This means that the
> | prostho work at the general level will go down in quality, IMO, because
> | so many Dentists and Techs are into (relatively easy) implants only.
> | JMO
> | SP

Signature

Rather ironic isn't it? A mere decade ago the profession was arguing
that only
the specialists should be doing implants because of all the extra skills
needed.
Now they are saying there is no reason a GP shouldn't be doing the
simple cases
because they are so straight forward and predictable.

Roy

Ezzatly....
SP

--
Not a real Addy, yet

Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 15:49 GMT
>> |  This means that the
>> | prostho work at the general level will go down in quality, IMO, because
>> | so many Dentists and Techs are into (relatively easy) implants only.
>> | JMO
>> | SP

In my opinion, a lower molar implant in a non-broad ridge needs a
CAT-scan ......

I hope the amateurs are doing that!

The specialists may not need to ....

Joel
StovePipe - 18 Dec 2004 18:51 GMT
> >> |  This means that the

> >Ezzatly....
> >SP
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> The specialists may not need to ....

> Joel

Nope, the local generalist who put 'em in for us (who gets an Xmas card
from Per Igmar Branemark each year, I might add...) takes his own
Panogram. If you send him your own, it wouldn't make a difference.. He
used to have CT scans done and it doesn't give him any more info. I
think it depends who you are...
JMO
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Joel M. Eichen - 18 Dec 2004 20:32 GMT
>> >> |  This means that the
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>JMO
>SP

Panogram means what?

Joel
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT
> >Panogram. If you send him your own, it wouldn't make a difference.. He
> >used to have CT scans done and it doesn't give him any more info. I
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Joel

You know... that big one-time xray that goes around yer head and you get
one big long film from condyle to condyle and from chin symphysis to
somewhere in mid orbit.... These days the machines usually also do
cephalometric views as well. What do you guys call them?
Cheers
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Joel M. Eichen - 19 Dec 2004 02:07 GMT
>> >Panogram. If you send him your own, it wouldn't make a difference.. He
>> >used to have CT scans done and it doesn't give him any more info. I
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>Cheers
>SP

Problem is its not 3-D.

Joel

Panogram is correct as is Panorex or pan.
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 05:42 GMT
> >cephalometric views as well. What do you guys call them?
> >Cheers
> >SP
>
> Problem is its not 3-D.

Too true... but this guy (and a few others that I know) don't seem to
feel that digitally reconstructed 3-D is necessary. The reason he uses
his own Pan machine is that he has done distortion measurements on it
and so he knows in an occluso-apical direction (for lack of the real
description) were he is. If he needs to know how things are in a
buccal-lingual direction, he'll anesthetize as for an extraction and use
the pointed calipers to chart out a slice width wise. It is a question
of convienience and pragmatism: we have ONE CT machine in Quebec
City.... that's how f'ing POOR we are...
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Joel M. Eichen - 19 Dec 2004 11:27 GMT
>> >cephalometric views as well. What do you guys call them?
>> >Cheers
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Too true... but this guy (and a few others that I know) don't seem to
>feel that digitally reconstructed 3-D is necessary.

MY TAKE:

Specialist okay. If its a GP and if he has several lawsuits going
about drilling into the mandibular nerve space, then he better go 3-D.

Joel

> The reason he uses
>his own Pan machine is that he has done distortion measurements on it
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>City.... that's how f'ing POOR we are...
>SP
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 20:32 GMT
>Nope, the local generalist who put 'em in for us (who gets an Xmas card
>from Per Igmar Branemark each year, I might add...)

What does Per get in return besides lottaca$h ?
A nice hummer ?

What was that story about the 'genuine antique dagger' again....?

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
aydera dental center - 07 Jan 2005 22:26 GMT
hi,
I am dental technician.First I met this group.And I read all
message.But only I dont understand IMO.Maybe I know because I am a
turk.This is english word.Please said to me IMO^^s longer name.
thanks
Vaughn - 08 Jan 2005 00:16 GMT
> hi,
> I am dental technician.First I met this group.And I read all
> message.But only I dont understand IMO.Maybe I know because I am a
> turk.This is english word.Please said to me IMO^^s longer name.

    "IMO" is just a short way of writing, "In My Opinion".  It is not good
English, just something used on the Internet to save time and space.  Another is
"IMHO" which means "In My Humble Opinion".

Vaughn

> thanks
W_B - 08 Jan 2005 00:21 GMT
>It is not good
>English,

Ahem, neither is that phrase. <8^]]>

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Vaughn - 08 Jan 2005 00:36 GMT
> Ahem, neither is that phrase. <8^]]>

    OK, score one for WB.  Of course, I will be the guy correcting the grammer
in all of WB's posts from now on!

Vaughn ;-)

> --
> W_B
>
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE
Bammers5 - 08 Jan 2005 02:33 GMT
>    OK, score one for WB.  Of course, I will be the guy correcting the
>grammer
>in all of WB's posts from now on!
>
>Vaughn ;-)

Wait! Isn't that grammar? Or are you talking about a guy who measures in grams?

Keith
Joel M. Eichen - 08 Jan 2005 11:32 GMT
>>    OK, score one for WB.  Of course, I will be the guy correcting the
>>grammer
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Keith

Good one Keith. So a Pounder is the guy who works with sand ... or is
that Sander?

Joel
W_B - 10 Jan 2005 17:00 GMT
>>>    OK, score one for WB.  Of course, I will be the guy correcting the
>>>grammer
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
>Joel

Funny !
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
W_B - 09 Jan 2005 16:12 GMT
>> Ahem, neither is that phrase. <8^]]>
>
>     OK, score one for WB.  Of course, I will be the guy correcting the grammer
>in all of WB's posts from now on!
>
>Vaughn ;-)

Muchas gracias.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
aydera - 08 Jan 2005 22:53 GMT
> > hi,
> > I am dental technician.First I met this group.And I read all
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> > thanks
aydera - 08 Jan 2005 22:55 GMT
hi all colleages,
thanks very much your explain.I a lotof laughed myself.
again thanks..
carabelli - 08 Jan 2005 02:28 GMT
> hi,
> I am dental technician.First I met this group.And I read all
> message.But only I dont understand IMO.Maybe I know because I am a
> turk.This is english word.Please said to me IMO^^s longer name.
> thanks

Welcome!

If you have read the posts before this you know it is "In My Opinion"

We are happy you are here.

carabelli
Dr. Steve - 17 Dec 2004 17:41 GMT
>From the been there, done that - hard knock school of life. IMHO there are 3
>types of techs. The "masters" or select few who are not part of the equation and
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
>this under a system of checks and balances set up to protect the patient. Scary
>isn't it?

I agree fully.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Bammers5 - 16 Dec 2004 04:59 GMT
You said it well. Not much for me to add.

Keith

>Hopefully we will hear from Elizzy and Bammer on this issue
Dr. Steve - 15 Dec 2004 20:10 GMT
>> Having a publicly declared shortage of trained lab techs in both Canada and
>the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Vaughn

I think there is a legitimate shortage of trained Lab technicians
willing to work for the wages which most Labs can afford to pay.  The
system desperately needs to charge.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
Joel M. Eichen - 15 Dec 2004 20:16 GMT
>I think there is a legitimate shortage of trained Lab technicians
>willing to work for the wages which most Labs can afford to pay.  The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.

Further Glidewell (the largest US lab ~ revenues around $120 cmillion
last year) owns several self-contained off-shore labs. The danger is
they they will contract out part of their existing business, making it
more difficult for technicians, and unbeknownst to the
dentist/customers.

I am certain foreign technicians are skillful but I always like
Americans to have full employment first.

Joel
W_B - 15 Dec 2004 22:45 GMT
>I think there is a legitimate shortage of trained Lab technicians
>willing to work for the wages which most Labs can afford to pay.  The
>system desperately needs to charge.
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

All dentists need a CEREC right ?
--

W_B

Take out the G'RBAGE
wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Dr Steve - 16 Dec 2004 13:51 GMT
>>I think there is a legitimate shortage of trained Lab technicians
>>willing to work for the wages which most Labs can afford to pay.  The
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> All dentists need a CEREC right ?
> --

Oh yes!  But, for more than just the lab tech shortage problem.

Signature

~+--~+--~+--~+--~+--
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA
....................................................

This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here.  Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will affect
your health.
......................

StovePipe - 17 Dec 2004 15:17 GMT
> >>...  The system desperately needs to charge.
> >>..
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Oh yes!  But, for more than just the lab tech shortage problem.

With all due respect to you both, I feel that is just not true. _I_
wouldn't feel competent enough to design a crown/bridge to be esthetic
and functional based on my currently quite limited knowledge and
experience in C&B... The CEREC cannot replace that competence, IMO.
Couple that with the reality of costs of those machines, and I can tell
you that if there's no cometent tech, I wouldn't do ANY C&B.
JMO
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 17 Dec 2004 17:49 GMT
>> >>...  The system desperately needs to charge.
>> >>..
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>JMO
>SP

Did you ever wax a crown?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 17 Dec 2004 21:17 GMT
>>With all due respect to you both, I feel that is just not true. _I_
>>wouldn't feel competent enough to design a crown/bridge to be esthetic
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

I've waxed philosophical...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Etukee - 17 Dec 2004 22:04 GMT
>>Did you ever wax a crown?
>>..
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>--
>W_B

and poetic
elizzy
W_B - 17 Dec 2004 22:26 GMT
>>>Did you ever wax a crown?
>>>..
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>and poetic
>elizzy

Thanx 8^]]

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 17 Dec 2004 23:56 GMT
> >Did you ever wax a crown?
> >..
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> --
> W_B

Those are too hard.... and they never end,,, and there's no 'right
answer'.... etc, etc, etc,,,,,,
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

StovePipe - 17 Dec 2004 23:56 GMT
> >With all due respect to you both, I feel that is just not true. _I_
> >wouldn't feel competent enough to design a crown/bridge to be esthetic
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA

Sure did, but I'm so obsessive compulsive, it takes FOREVER. I suppose
I'd get efficient if I had to, but as things stand now, the only wax-ups
I do are on the anteriors to show my patients what we can do with
veneers or what ever. I usually do those with the expired Z-100 I have
and often I only use my gloved fingers, no etch or bonding. Those go
fast, 'cause the 'patient' is under them, getting IM-patient.

You know it's funny: those 'down and dirty' waxups often look better
than the final product... So sometimes when I know that'll happen, what
I do is take a sectional with VPS (also old stuff) and use a #11 blade
and cut away the facial part. I leave about 1mm of the incisal end of
the facial aspect. Then I put this 'sectional VPS matrix' back on the
teeth, after etching and bonding and fill it up using Supreme as
material and spreading it with my CVIPC composite blade. I NEVER like
the finish of this stuff, so I re-etch, re-SingleBond, and paint over it
with a thin layer of FlowLine (Kulzer flowable microfil). So, yes, I DO
do wax-ups, but I find that the tech's are usually much better detailed
than mine.

Go ahead: LAUGH.....  ;-)
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Roy Brown - 18 Dec 2004 07:51 GMT
| ... yes, I DO
| do wax-ups, but I find that the tech's are usually much better detailed
| than mine.
|
| Go ahead: LAUGH.....  ;-)
| SP

Why? The technicians are working under a totally different set of conditions.
How do you think you work would look if you could hold in your hand and move it
into a better position to work on it?

Signature

Roy
rem NADA to reply

StovePipe - 18 Dec 2004 15:30 GMT
> | ... yes, I DO
> | do wax-ups, but I find that the tech's are usually much better detailed
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> conditions. How do you think you work would look if you could hold in your
> hand and move it into a better position to work on it?

.....'Guess it's a question of confidence..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
better'n mine... It's a hard attitude to shake, believe me...
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Vaughn - 18 Dec 2004 15:44 GMT
> .....'Guess it's a question of confidence..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
> better'n mine... It's a hard attitude to shake, believe me...

    An attitude of continuous humility can be a good thing.  I hope I never
become a truly confident pilot...those guys are dangerous!

Vaughn

> SP
StovePipe - 18 Dec 2004 18:51 GMT
> > .....'Guess it's a question of confidence..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
> > better'n mine... It's a hard attitude to shake, believe me...
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Vaughn
I think I already told you my Dad's take on little planes: he was a
commercial pilot and did alot of checkpiloting (you act as the first
officer and note all the deviations from standard procedure. Some are
acceptable, some will get you a suspended licence...).

He said (when I was taking lessons) that those little putt-putts are
great for going around the sky in really good weather (Cavo-K day) sight
seeing or what ever, and that's it. The trouble comes when you get good
enough to start thinking of them as vehicles. (IOW, you start thinking
of say having a picnic in the next county.... stay too long... see
weather comin' in from the opposite direction, and decide you can outrun
it... ).

IOW, they are to be thought of as pedal boats, not car carrying ferries.

So there.... ;-)
SP

Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 19:09 GMT
>> > .....'Guess it's a question of confidence..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
>> > better'n mine... It's a hard attitude to shake, believe me...
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>So there.... ;-)
>SP

My next door neighbor was a test-pilot for the B -24 bombers in WW II.
(Willow Run, Michigan) He had a Cessna 150 we used to ride in a lot.
He never would go up in less than perfect weather.  He had to hang up
his wings after a minor stroke. He and I both miss those pleasant day
flights.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT
> My next door neighbor was a test-pilot for the B -24 bombers in WW II.
> (Willow Run, Michigan) He had a Cessna 150 we used to ride in a lot.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA

I am sure that once you get your qualifications and enough hours to
allow passengers he'll be amoung the first to hitch a ride.... And he'll
get the BIGGEST kick out of it you could imagine..  ;-)
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

Dr. Steve - 19 Dec 2004 15:22 GMT
>> My next door neighbor was a test-pilot for the B -24 bombers in WW II.
>> (Willow Run, Michigan) He had a Cessna 150 we used to ride in a lot.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>get the BIGGEST kick out of it you could imagine..  ;-)
>SP

I am not ready to give up all my "weird" cars to take up flying.
Having OCD, I would surely immense myself in it and would want to
qualify on multi-engine & instruments. That would gobble up all my
time.
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 17:13 GMT
> >I am sure that once you get your qualifications and enough hours to
> >allow passengers he'll be amoung the first to hitch a ride.... And he'll
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
> Troy, Michigan, USA

Well.... Y'all could fly with Big John Travolta... that's exactly what
he did... although he had the free time, now, doesn't he?
Cheers
SP
Signature

Not a real Addy, yet

W_B - 19 Dec 2004 22:18 GMT
>>I am sure that once you get your qualifications and enough hours to
>>allow passengers he'll be amoung the first to hitch a ride.... And he'll
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Whot !/!/!/?

You have extra time !/?/!/?

Sailing is much more relaxing and lower maintenence.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Vaughn - 19 Dec 2004 23:38 GMT
> >I am not ready to give up all my "weird" cars to take up flying.
> >Having OCD, I would surely immense myself in it and would want to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Sailing is much more relaxing and lower maintenence.

    Wrooooong!  I have sampled both sailing and flying rather extensively.
Sailboats are a *bunch* of work.  Not so much while you are in the *act* of
sailing, the work comes before and after the sailing part.  There was a time
when sailing literally came before women in my life.  I quickly found myself
using my sailboat less and less and my ... more and more.

    I think the lessons I learned in owning a sailboat is why I have always
been a contented renter of aircraft (rather than an owner).

Vaughn

> --
> W_B
>
> wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
> Take out the G'RBAGE
W_B - 20 Dec 2004 00:22 GMT
>> >I am not ready to give up all my "weird" cars to take up flying.
>> >Having OCD, I would surely immense myself in it and would want to
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>Vaughn

I respect your opinion and experience.

However, it has not been mine.
Dad was a F86 pilot, I don't fly, and
never expect to.

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
Dr. Steve - 18 Dec 2004 18:58 GMT
O
>.....'..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
>better'n mine...

Want to bet?
..
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
Troy, Michigan, USA

Writing on a tablet PC,so forgive me if the PC misreads my poor handwriting.
W_B - 18 Dec 2004 20:42 GMT
>O
>>.....'..... EVER'BODDY'S work is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>..
>Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.

Hmm... this may get interesting

I've got $20 Canadian on...

--
W_B

wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com
Take out the G'RBAGE
StovePipe - 19 Dec 2004 01:47 GMT