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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / March 2004Electromagnetic Energy in Dental Amalgams
The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of materials: "If you can describe the permittivity, permeability and conductivity of a material, you can describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within that material." See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html In view of the fact that metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in children's teeth, and in view of the fact that individuals are subjected to different types of electromagnetic energy every day, you would have thought that at sometime someone somewhere should have carried out experimental investigations to determine the permittivity, permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam in order to "describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within that material." (Well I would at least.) Does anyone know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam dental fillings? Keith P Walsh PS, some enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm -- I went through college doing Electronics. We used to do simple experiments to determine these properties as part of our course. Its not rocket science and takes less than an afternoon with simple equipment.. However - the properties for copper are well known and documented. Holding to your head - or a copper coin or a copper antenna emmissing megawatts of microwave energy may have very different effects. These properties are trivial compared with the geometry and topography of the material. EG you can make a copper lightning rod or a high voltage transformer from the same copper chunk. One could make 35,000 volts and the other save your life by being a lightning conductor. I think its a bit like describing the properties of fibreglass. Its dangerousness might depend on wether its in a missile nose cone or in a fishing rod. Not that its fibreglass. > The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes > the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html > In view of the fact that metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in > children's teeth, and in view of the fact that individuals are subjected [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- Thank you for your "reply". Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam dental fillings? Keith P Walsh >I went through college doing Electronics. We used to do simple experiments >to determine these properties as part of our course. Its not rocket science [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] >> >> -- 349 to 350 millivolts ... what more can be said? JOEL >Thank you for your "reply". > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >>> >>> http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm  SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER Completely? What does completely mean in this context? It would depend up the exact recipe for that particulat lump of it, its shape, size, which direction the guy way facing, proximity to other filling, braces, sunglasses, the guys, the individual body makeup, how much is he salivating, position on the globe, what he last ate......... I guess you could completely descripe an individual filling in an individual context. What is the point here? Life is too short for this. Pauses while Jan Drew sharpens her pencil........... > Thank you for your "reply". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Keith P Walsh > Completely? > What does completely mean in this context? I take it to mean an explanation that will get Mr. Walsh off this newsgroup. Are you man enough? Steve > > Completely? > > What does completely mean in this context? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Steve he won't go away until he realizes that his repeated postings on here will never make any progress in the state of dentistry in the real world. he can ask his questions as many times as he wants, but there is no one on here who can make a difference. these groups are populated by argumentative scientist wannabes picking nits over nothing, clueless high school dropouts with dreams of becoming the next Einstein pushing their latest crackpot theory that was debunked 50 years ago, doom and destruction mongers like Walsh who are trying to drag the rest of the world down to their dungeon with groundless claims and arguments, and trolls just hoping to drag anyone into another endless discussion about nothing(Walsh will move to this group shortly if he isn't here already). But how will we keep up with what is the latest readings of millivolts per amalgam? Right now, its 350. JOEL >> Completely? >> What does completely mean in this context? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Steve SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER You wrote, >Pauses while Jan Drew sharpens her pencil........... REPLY Thank goodness for that. It has oft been said that Jan is not the sharpest pencil in the box! JOEL >Completely? >What does completely mean in this context? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Keith P Walsh SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER >> Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe >> completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam >> dental fillings? > >Completely? >What does completely mean in this context? I can offer an example of one context in which our knowledge of the electromagnetic properties of dental amalgams might be considered incomplete. The website of UK company Microshield makes repeated references to adverse effects reported by users of mobile phones (cell phones in the US) implicating the interaction between the electromagnetic energy radiating from the phones and the metal fillings in the users' teeth. e.g., "Many mobile (cell phone) users report burning sensations and toothache in teeth with fillings and also an unpleasant metallic taste in their mouth." See: http://www.microshield.co.uk/latest_news.html In order to discredit the veracity of such reports scientifically it might be considered necessary to have some knowledge of the behavior of metal amalgam dental fillings with regard to their interaction with electromagnetic energy. For example, it might be necessary to establish that amalgam fillings are not able to attenuate electromagnetic signals at the frequencies used by cell phones, or that any energy which is absorbed by the fillings could not be dissipated to their surroundings in the form of an electric current. These things can only be done by measuring the electromagnetic behavior of the material in question. However, if experimental studies to determine the permeability, permittivity and conductivity of amalgams have never been carried out then the relevant properties of the material are not known, and it might therefore not be possible to discredit reports such as those quoted above with any degree of scientific authority. It should require a complete description of the electromagnetic behavior of the material in order to do this. >What is the point here? Life is too short for this. Amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth. Keith P Walsh PS, further enquiries regarding the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm "Keith P Walsh"> ................. > The website of UK company Microshield makes repeated references........... Keith those MicroShields seem a little pricey. Have you bought one yet or do you still just put a bucket over your head when using your cell phone? carabelli >Keith those MicroShields seem a little pricey. Have you bought one yet or >do you still just put a bucket over your head when using your cell phone? If you can describe the permittivity, permeability and conductivity of a material, you can describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within that material. (*) The permittivity of a material is measured in farads per metre. The permeability of a material is measured in henry per metre. The conductivity of a material is measured in siemens per metre. Do you know what the values of these properties are for a typical dental amalgam? Or are you just as ignorant as everyone else? Keith P Walsh (*) http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html > >Keith those MicroShields seem a little pricey. Have you bought one yet or > >do you still just put a bucket over your head when using your cell phone? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Or are you just as ignorant as everyone else? Evidentally, you don't know what these values are or you would already know the answer, wouldn't you Keith? This suggest that, just perhaps, you yourself are ignorant. Go do your homework. carabelli > Keith P Walsh > > (*) http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Charact er.html >>Keith those MicroShields seem a little pricey. Have you bought one yet or >>do you still just put a bucket over your head when using your cell phone? [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Or are you just as ignorant as everyone else? Insults ? Mr. Walsh, you should not do that... This is not a kindergarten. Regards, Aribert Deckers SignatureDie Noni-Connection : http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_wies.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no15.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no12.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_noni.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non5.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non4.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non6.htm Crap. > >> Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe > >> completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >Crap. Are you saying that it is not possible to find out what the electromagnetic properties of dental amalgams are? Keith P Walsh > Thank you for your "reply". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Keith P Walsh Yes, Thor has struck down all that challenge his domain. Any other questions? carabelli > Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe > completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam > dental fillings? What are you getting at? EM fields are everywhere. If you are trying to say EM fields + amalgams = danger, then you are totally off base and any research that suggest this is pure and utter junk. Please stop grasping at random straws like this. I've told you more than 5 times to go look up mu and epsilon for the materials comprising amalgams. Why haven't you done this yet? You you are saying that electromagnetism is everywhere including dental fillings so dentists are pizining people? JOEL >> Do you know of any reason why it should not be possible to describe >> completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >for the materials comprising amalgams. Why haven't you done >this yet? SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER >I went through college doing Electronics. We used to do simple experiments >to determine these properties as part of our course. Its not rocket science >and takes less than an afternoon with simple equipment.. REPLY No physics course is complete without measuring amalgams -- According to Keith its 350 millivolts .......... >However - the properties for copper are well known and documented. Holding >to your head - or a copper coin or a copper antenna emmissing megawatts of >microwave energy may have very different effects. These properties are >trivial compared with the geometry and topography of the material. EG you >can make a copper lightning rod or a high voltage transformer from the same >copper chunk. One could make 35,000 volts ....... or 100,000 amalgams ,,, according to Keith again ..... >and the other save your life by >being a lightning conductor. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> >> http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER The absolute funniest part of the post is in the HEADER! Re: Electromagnetic Energy in Dental Amalgams If an amalgam is composed of matter, it contains electromagnetic energy! JOEL >I went through college doing Electronics. We used to do simple experiments >to determine these properties as part of our course. Its not rocket science [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >> >> http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER (snip) > I think its a bit like describing the properties of fibreglass. Its > dangerousness might depend on wether its in a missile nose cone or in a > fishing rod. Not that its fibreglass. Hey--watch it with that fishing rod--you could take someone's eye out with that! Steve Did you know for each fish you catch there are 350 millivolts generated ......... >(snip) >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Steve SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER And they're full of mercury. > Did you know for each fish you catch there are 350 millivolts > generated ......... [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > STANDARD DISCLAIMER But only in their amalgams ,,,,,, its best to get fish with composites instead .......... or crowns ...... >And they're full of mercury. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> >> STANDARD DISCLAIMER SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER I thought that was electric eels... > Did you know for each fish you catch there are 350 millivolts > generated ......... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > >Steve Eel can pack quite a wallop ....... >I thought that was electric eels... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> > >> >Steve SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER Dear God, Keith is replaying his old old old recipe and people with too much time on their hands are falling all over themselves to keep telling him the same old thing.... I was cursing the stupidity of Keith's ramblings the other day when I kept mumbling "That God Damned Useless Keith Walsh and his dental amalgams fixation, That God Damned Useless Keith Walsh and his dental amalgams fixation,........" A nun strolled by and hear me. She sat down and gave me the standard lecture on how God hadn't made anything that was useless. I looked her square in the eye and said "Oh yeah, I can name three things that God made that are useless." The Nun demanded that I tell her what they were. So I said : "Here they are: 1. Tits on a Nun. 2. Ball on a Priest and, 3. That God Damned Keith Walsh and his dental amalgams fixation." Jim > The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes > the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Keith P Walsh Yes, well he is a master Troll so he should be given credit where credit is due! I, like you, kept on thinking the past year and a half Keith P Walsh has been trolling here, what a waste of bandwidth, what a waste of time for so many folks who engage his ramblings, what a crock this style of "suppose this and suppose that, and has anyone measured the 349.8mV of potential in your mouth ..., but you know what? I find his posts the most entertaining on this NG. Certainly so much better than the crack pot who posts this EER crap. Uncle Al even piped in with his own brand of viceral stylings to "touch" Mr. Walsh with a custom Uncle Al reply! The one thing that will stop a Troll is to simply not reply. You could killfile the Troll's posts as well, but that will not prevent you from seeing the replies, and on a NG like this, where people drop in and join on a regular basis, posts of a controversial nature like Mr. Walsh's will always raise the ire of someone. I say, just enjoy these for what they are, well written trollings by a master of his craft (no not the knowledge of dental materials and their physiology, but the art of successful trolling). cheers, MA Sonjariv >Dear God, Keith is replaying his old old old recipe and people with too >much time on their hands are falling all over themselves to keep telling [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >> >> Keith P Walsh > The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes > the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within metal amalgam > dental fillings? Is there any particular reason you haven't gotten off your a.s and done the necessary work yourself? If you insist on continuing to try to recruit others to your crusade, a little evidence would help. Mark L. Fergerson >> The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics REPLY This was the website that George Costanza did import for ... only import, no export ............. >makes >> the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Mark L. Fergerson SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER [snip] Nothing. Trolling idiot. You see yourself this way, http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete6.jpg The entire remainder of the planet sees you this way, http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete3.png http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/bab5/snds/argcstpd.wav http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete0.jpg http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete1.png http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete2.png http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete3.png http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete4.png http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete5.jpg http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~siegel/quack.html <http://www.firehead.org/~jessh/film/kubrick/Kubrick-Psycho.html> <http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/prisons.html> SignatureUncle Al http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/ (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net! >See: http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_av1.htm Regards, Aribert Deckers SignatureDie Noni-Connection : http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_wies.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no15.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no12.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_noni.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non5.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non4.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non6.htm >The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes >the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm I've heard of people picking up radio in their fillings. If I were to pick up television, and it was a pay per view channel, how would they know to change me? Signature- Charles - -does not play well with others >I've heard of people picking up radio in their fillings. If I were to >pick up television, and it was a pay per view channel, how would they >know to change me? Your review in the local newspaper. -- Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion. wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Why do you think everyone wants one of the little mouth mirrors that dentists use? >I've heard of people picking up radio in their fillings. If I were to >pick up television, and it was a pay per view channel, how would they >know to change me? SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER >Why do you think everyone wants one of the little mouth mirrors that >dentists use? To change the channel of course. -- Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion. wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com Now I was thinking about this........... As I said before, the properties you want could be found in an afternoon. Its not a Roswell cover up. If you had these figures, what good would it do you? You could ask your local college to find them as a mini project. Any effects would vary hugely according to the individual fillings, the patient and the phone. Now........... Wire braces & wire in some bridges should worry you more...... You could get a lot more energy induced into those, and they are curved so marking part of a coil. > The website of electronic equipment manufacturer Gore Electronics makes > the following assertion regarding the electromagnetic properties of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html > In view of the fact that metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in > children's teeth, and in view of the fact that individuals are subjected [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -- > If you had these figures, what good would it do >you? I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be able to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within that material. See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html Then, if anyone ever told me that their amalgam fillings were causing unpleasant sensations when they used a cell phone, or that they had heard radio signals picked up by their fillings, or that their fillings were causing them headaches and that this might be something to do with their electromagnetic behavior, I would be able to explain to them with an appropriate degree of scientific authority how these things cannot happen. Or otherwise. As it is I, like everyone else, am ignorant of these properties. However I, apparently unlike many others, do not agree that our ignorance in this matter is justifiable (because metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in children's teeth). > Any effects would vary hugely according to the individual fillings, the >patient and the phone. The inquiry with which I originated this thread was not restricted to the reported effects of cell phone signals only, but was also intended to include all the variety of electromagnetic sources which we are subjected to every day. Keith P Walsh PS, further enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm > > If you had these figures, what good would it do > >you? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > able to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within > that material. in general you are wrong. there are other properties that are also needed to describe electrical interaction with materials. there are several magnetic properties, more electric field properties, temperature dependence of various properties, and surface effects that you must also consider. that gore site is still a gross simplification of real world conditions... and even if you define all those effects what are you going to do with them?? > > If you had these figures, what good would it do > >you? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > able to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within > that material. Keith, what exactly where you doing when you had this revelation?? carabelli > See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Charact er.html > Then, if anyone ever told me that their amalgam fillings were causing > unpleasant sensations when they used a cell phone, or that they had [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >> I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, >> permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >carabelli Sitting on the 'john' no doubt. It's where his best ideas come out. WB -- Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion. wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >> I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, >> permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >carabelli Sitting on the 'john' no doubt. It's where his best ideas come out. WB -- Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion. wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>> I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, >>> permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >WB Thought this was a great answer. Not even a 'good one' from Joel. -disappointed -- WB Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him. -Sun Tzu > >>> I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, > >>> permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Thought this was a great answer. > Not even a 'good one' from Joel. Since Keith is across the pond, he probably assumed you were accusing him of sitting on a prostitute's customer. Of course it was good - why do you think I asked?? carabelli >> >Sitting on the 'john' no doubt. >> >It's where his best ideas come out. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >carabelli Hmmm... should have used ... ? Damn can't remember the brit word. -- "I can dance on the head of a pin as well" -Yoshimo > >> >Sitting on the 'john' no doubt. > >> >It's where his best ideas come out. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > should have used ... ? > Damn can't remember the brit word. Dunno, Loo? nah, but close. carabelli >> Hmmm... >> >> should have used ... ? >> Damn can't remember the brit word. > >Dunno, Loo? nah, but close. Yeah that's it ! Had a vapor lock.. Doubla-Vay Say ......... WC >>> Hmmm... >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Yeah that's it ! Had a vapor lock.. SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER A prostitute's customer in Britain is called "Lou." Bad one, I know ..... >>> >Sitting on the 'john' no doubt. >>> >It's where his best ideas come out. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >should have used ... ? >Damn can't remember the brit word. SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER Good one on the good one! >>>> I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, >>>> permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >-disappointed SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER > > If you had these figures, what good would it do > >you? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > able to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within > that material. You would also be able to construct a flux capacitor. carabelli > See: http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Charact er.html > Then, if anyone ever told me that their amalgam fillings were causing > unpleasant sensations when they used a cell phone, or that they had [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >I have this idea that That is your problem. Please cure it somewhere else. Look at this cure : http://www.geocities.com/naturopathicmafia/Quackery.html Regards, Aribert Deckers SignatureDie Noni-Connection : http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_wies.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no15.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_no12.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_noni.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non5.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non4.htm http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_non6.htm In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > > If you had these figures, what good would it do > >you? > I have this idea that if I were to find out what the permittivity, > permeability and conductivity of dental amalgam are then I would be > able to describe completely how electromagnetic energy behaves within > that material. Utter hogwash. You have been repeatedly told that making such measurments is not all that difficult and if you want the numbers go make the measurements. You have not done so and appear incapable of doing so which would indicate you are also incapable of doing anything meaninful with the numbers, a much more complex problem. SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. >You have been repeatedly told that making such measurments is not all that >difficult and if you want the numbers go make the measurements. The Gore Electronics website appears to contradict you directly on this point. It says: "Testing the permittivity, conductivity, and permeability of materials can be a difficult task."(*) I think that Dave (noone@nowhere.com) is much nearer the mark when he says : "there are other properties that are also needed to describe electrical interaction with materials. there are several magnetic properties, more electric field properties, temperature dependence of various properties, and surface effects that you must also consider. that gore site is still a gross simplification of real world conditions..." (see elsewhere in this thread) His comments are actually borne out to some extent by the Gore website: "Note that, for a given material, the electrical properties change under various conditions, such as frequency, temperature, humidity, and physical orientation to the electromagnetic field."(*) I can add further possible complications. Dental amalgams are not like other conductive metal alloys which might, for example, be used for EMI shielding applications in electronic equipment. Amalgams are made differently. True metal alloys are made by heating the constituent metals to temperatures in excess of their melting points, mixing the molten metals thoroughly, and then allowing the mixture to cool at a controlled rate. Dental amalgams are made by mixing a metal which is a liquid at room temperature (mercury) with unheated grains of a solid metal alloy and allowing the mixture to harden at between room and body temperatures. Under this procedure a large percentage of the mass of the solid alloy grains remains completely unreacted with, or dissolved by, the liquid mercury - with the unreacted/dissilved particles measuring in the order of tens of micrometres across. This results in a microstructure which is very different from that of true alloys. There is a much greater degree of material inhomogenity in an amalgam. And, as a result, you might expect a much greater variation in the electromagnetic response of such a material than in other materials which are more homogeneous. Leastways, I for one remain confident in asserting that the only way to determine the electromagnetic responses of a typical dental amalgam accurately would be to measure them. It might then be possible to explain with an appropriate level of scientific authority how the dissipation of energy from ordinary, everyday electromagnetic fields by an amalgam filling to its surroundings is not possible. Or otherwise, of course. Remember that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth. Keith P Walsh (*) http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > >You have been repeatedly told that making such measurments is not all that > >difficult and if you want the numbers go make the measurements. > The Gore Electronics website appears to contradict you directly on > this point. How would you know, you've never tried to do it and you never will. If you believe you are so incompetent you can't make these simple measurements, send some money to Gore Electronics and I'm sure they will be glad to do it for you. Remember, the children are counting on you to save them. > It says: > "Testing the permittivity, conductivity, and permeability of materials > can be a difficult task."(*) How would you know, you've never tried to do it and you never will. > I think that Dave (noone@nowhere.com) is much nearer the mark when he > says : > "there are other properties that are also needed to describe > electrical interaction with materials. there are several magnetic > properties, more electric field properties, temperature dependence of > various properties, and surface effects that you must also consider. > that gore site is still a gross simplification of real world > conditions..." (see elsewhere in this thread) > His comments are actually borne out to some extent by the Gore > website: > "Note that, for a given material, the electrical properties change > under various conditions, such as frequency, temperature, humidity, > and physical orientation to the electromagnetic field."(*) How would you know, you've never tried to do it and you never will. For all your rants only one temperature and condition is relevant, that of the human mouth which is damn constant. > I can add further possible complications. > Dental amalgams are not like other conductive metal alloys which > might, for example, be used for EMI shielding applications in > electronic equipment. Totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > Amalgams are made differently. Totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > True metal alloys are made by heating the constituent metals to > temperatures in excess of their melting points, mixing the molten > metals thoroughly, and then allowing the mixture to cool at a > controlled rate. Totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > Dental amalgams are made by mixing a metal which is a liquid at room > temperature (mercury) with unheated grains of a solid metal alloy and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mercury - with the unreacted/dissilved particles measuring in the > order of tens of micrometres across. Totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > This results in a microstructure which is very different from that of > true alloys. Totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > There is a much greater degree of material inhomogenity in an amalgam. Unless the structure is at least an eighth of a wavelength, totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > And, as a result, you might expect a much greater variation in the > electromagnetic response of such a material than in other materials > which are more homogeneous. Unless the structure is at least an eighth of a wavelength, totally irrelevant; a material is a material; amalgam isn't magic. > Leastways, I for one remain confident in asserting that the only way > to determine the electromagnetic responses of a typical dental amalgam > accurately would be to measure them. So go ahead and measure them; no one else is going to do it for you. The equipment to do so can be found cheaply on the surplus market or on E-bay. The techniques can be found in any number of books. Get off your a.s, shut up, and go make the measurements. > It might then be possible to explain with an appropriate level of > scientific authority how the dissipation of energy from ordinary, > everyday electromagnetic fields by an amalgam filling to its > surroundings is not possible. Not until you get off your a.s and go make the measurements. > Or otherwise, of course. > Remember that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth. Remember the children are depending on you to save them; go get the equipment and make the measurements before it is too late. > Keith P Walsh > (*) > http://www.goreelectronics.com/products/emi/Electromagnetic_Material_Character.html SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: <Babbling snipped> > Leastways, I for one remain confident in asserting that the only way > to determine the electromagnetic responses of a typical dental amalgam > accurately would be to measure them. > It might then be possible to explain with an appropriate level of > scientific authority how the dissipation of energy from ordinary, > everyday electromagnetic fields by an amalgam filling to its > surroundings is not possible. > Or otherwise, of course. > Remember that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth. > Keith P Walsh There is a GenRad LCR bridge for $9.99 on Ebay right now. Save the children! Buy it now and make the measurements. Remember, you must save the children! Is $9.99 too much for you to spend to save the children? SignatureJim Pennino Remove -spam-sux to reply. > In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Is $9.99 too much for you to spend to save the children? SAVE THE CHILDREN !!!!!!! Start your electrical propertis lab now. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS !!! Save the children, for God's sake, while there is still time! Jim Signature............................... Keepsake gift for young girls. Unique and personal one-of-a-kind. Builds strong minds 12 ways. Guaranteed satisfaction - courteous money back - keep bonus gifts http://www.alicebook.com >In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Is $9.99 too much for you to spend to save the children? I think your contributions are getting sillier and sillier. And I also think that you are missing the point. It has been known for more than 160 years that when an electrical conductor moves in an electromagnetic field an electromotive force is induced in the conductor, and also that when a stationary electrical conductor is subjected to a varying electromagnetic field then an electromotive force is again induced in the conductor. In order to establish whether or not the electromotive forces induced in metal amalgam dental fillings as a result of their electromagnetic behavior are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads it should be necessary to carry out experimental investigations to demonstrate it one way or the other. If you were able to think scientifically then you would recognise that such investigations should already have been carried out. And the results should have been published. And why? Because metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in children's teeth. That's why. Keith P Walsh PS, enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm So, it sounds like you won't spend a little money to SAVE THE CHILDREN. It is clearly more your style to try to shame others into filling this viatal "data void"<. So, the chance to fill this void by yourself is ignored. >>In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm Signature............................... Keepsake gift for young girls. Unique and personal one-of-a-kind. Builds strong minds 12 ways. Guaranteed satisfaction - courteous money back - keep bonus gifts http://www.alicebook.com Koombahyah. Save the farms first! Then save the children ....... Willie Nelson lives ...... >So, it sounds like you won't spend a little money to SAVE THE CHILDREN. > [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >> >> http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER 350 millivolts? I guess that is why my refrigerator magnets always get stuck to my fillings ....... JOEL >>In sci.physics.electromag Keith P Walsh <keith.p.walsh@btinternet.com> wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER >350 millivolts? I guess that is why my refrigerator magnets always get >stuck to my fillings ....... > >JOEL Modern dental amalgam contains no ferrous metals. Therefore exhibit no electro-magnetic activity. Galvanic activity between conductive metals (Au, Ag, Cu, Sn, Al) is another matter entirely. KPW is an über troll. ;-]] -- Take out the G'RBAGE for private replies. wubbabubbazG@RBAGEyahoo.com >>350 millivolts? I guess that is why my refrigerator magnets always get >>stuck to my fillings ....... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Modern dental amalgam contains no ferrous metals. >Therefore exhibit no electro-magnetic activity. I dunno, all's I have to do is walk near my refrigerator and the magnets fly off and get stuck on my fillings ..... I sure wish Jan Drew could help. JOEL >Galvanic activity between conductive metals >(Au, Ag, Cu, Sn, Al) is another matter entirely. > >KPW is an über troll. > >;-]] SignatureJoel M. Eichen, . Philadelphia PA DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS: ********* Dental health-related material is provided for information purposes only and does not necessarily represent endorsement by or an official position of the SciMedDentistry gang or any other official agency either actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso. Advice on the treatment or care of an individual patient should be obtained through consultation with a dentist who has examined that patient or is familiar with that patient's dental history. STANDARD DISCLAIMER I think YOU need something to think about. Any induced field will be extraordinarily small., for reasons already discussed. The magnetic effects will appoximate Gold and the electrical properties will be like Gold's poor brother. In fact its a boring relatively passive material....... unless you consider the possibily of random semiconductor junctions formed within the material. So go and worry about that for a while. > It has been known for more than 160 years that when an electrical > conductor moves in an electromagnetic field an electromotive force is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >I think YOU need something to think about. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >In fact its a boring relatively passive material....... unless you consider >the possibily of random semiconductor junctions formed within the material. It has been demonstrated experimentally that amalgam dental fillings generate electrical potentials with magnitudes of up to 350 millivolts. See: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/dutch.htm It appears that at present there is some lack of agreement as to exactly how these potentials arise. Whether or not significant contributions are made by, for example, the electromagnetic or thermoelectric behaviors of the material is not known, because it also appears that experimental investigations to determine the precise nature of these behaviors have never been carried out. Neverthess, the fact remains that these potentials have been measured experimentally, and that their magnitudes reach levels of up to 350 millivolts. (Papers have been published by researchers who have measured amalgam potentials with greater magnitudes than this.) Compounding the ignorance of the dental profession, medical profession and every other section of the "scientific" community regarding this matter is the fact that it appears that experimental investigations to determine whether or not these potentials are able to dissipate electrical energy to their surroundings have also never been carried out. It can be concluded therefore that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that the electrical potentials generated by metal amalgam dental fillings are not able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads. And under these circumstances it is possible that amalgam dental fillings are not as "passive" as some people might wish to believe. Keith P Walsh We cocur. How else would the LEDs on the NTIs ever get power enough to light up? JOEL >>I think YOU need something to think about. >> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >Keith P Walsh Not only do we cocur, we also concur! >We cocur. How else would the LEDs on the NTIs ever get power enough to >light up? [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >>Keith P Walsh Did you know (and its true) that if you connect a very high impedance voltmeter between your head and feet you can measure extremely high (kilovolts) and harmless voltages? Well now you do. Or if you put aluminum foil in your mouth you can make a battery and measure and obtain useful energy between the foil and your fillings (and make your teeth hurt)? Did you know that X-Ray Film can be very hazardous.... if swallowed by small children? Four kilos of amalgam is enough to kill a heathy male adult..... if packed in his pockets while dropping him off the Brooklyn Bridge? > Not only do we cocur, we also concur! > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >> > >>Keith P Walsh Can the aluminum foil be fashioned into a hat and if so, how would that affect your general appearance? JOEL >Did you know (and its true) that if you connect a very high impedance >voltmeter between your head and feet you can measure extremely high [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >> >> >> >>Keith P Walsh In sci.physics, Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S. <joeleichen@yahoo.com> wrote on Sun, 14 Mar 2004 04:58:04 -0500 <u3b8505msbli23did16nqh0edsn2qibghr@4ax.com>: > Can the aluminum foil be fashioned into a hat and if so, how would > that affect your general appearance? > > JOEL See http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html for illustrations. Perfect for the highly paranoid and, ah, erm, the highly paranoid. >>Did you know (and its true) that if you connect a very high impedance >>voltmeter between your head and feet you can measure extremely high [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >>> >> >>> >>Keith P Walsh Signature#191, ewill3@earthlink.net It's still legal to go .sigless. I may order one before visiting Roswell New Mexico, for the Alien Autopsy. >In sci.physics, Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S. ><joeleichen@yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] >>>> >> >>>> >>Keith P Walsh >Did you know (and its true) that if you connect a very high impedance >voltmeter between your head and feet you can measure extremely high >(kilovolts) and harmless voltages? > >Well now you do. It is also well recognised that an electrical effect involving the movement of electrical charge is not defined simply by the size of the electrical potential which produces it. This can be illustrated by the following (all of which is also true). The discharge of static electricity of the type which may be experienced after walking across certain types of carpet occurs at potentials of up to thousands of volts. However, the amount of energy dissipated by such a discharge wouldn't be sufficient to light a flashlight bulb for any appreciable amount of time. On the other hand, everyday electric batteries which are able to drive a sustained current through a flashlight bulb filament and keep it lit for many hours do so with an operating potential of just a few volts. The nature of the dissipation of the energies involved in these two situations is dependent on a combination of variables, not simply the sizes of their electrical potentials, and is very different for each case. And neither of them is necessarily an accurate analogy for any electrical effect which might occur as a result of the electrical potentials generated by amalgam dental fillings. The obvious, logical and scientific conclusion to be drawn from this is that the only accurate way to determine the extent, if any, to which the electrical potentials generated by amalgam dental fillings are able to dissipate electrical energy through the nerves in people's heads would be to measure it. And, in view of the fact that amalgam fillings are placed in children's teeth, I believe that experimental investigations to at least attempt this measurement should already have been carried out. And the results should be available. If you can't see this then I would suggest that you have a very poor appreciation of what constitutes scientific understanding. Keith P Walsh PS, further enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >It is also well recognised that an electrical effect involving the >movement of electrical charge is not defined simply by the size of the >electrical potential which produces it. It is also well recognized that a functional brain is necessary for rational thinking. Be carefull that you do not end up as the notorious liar and forger Jan Drew, who advertizes for the criminal Hulda Clark. More about the naturopath mafia advertizing agency Jan Drew : http://www.geocities.com/naturopathicmafia/Quackery.html ... http://www.geocities.com/naturopathicmafia/Electroquack.html Regards, Aribert Deckers SignatureReklame mit wahrheitswidrigen Behauptungen http://www.ariplex.com/ama/ama_wies.htm > If you can't see this then I would suggest that you have a very poor > appreciation of what constitutes scientific understanding. You are the last person who should be passing judgement on others' scientific understanding. Why are you still harping on this phony theory of amalgam + electricity = harm? > PS, further enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental > amalgams can be found at: > > http://----------<JUNK SCIENCE LINK SNIPPED>-------------- I do not believe the 350 millivolts causes harm ,,, it just enough to light up several LEDs in my oral mucosa ,,,, WHAT AM I SAYING????? KETITH! What did you do? JOEL >> If you can't see this then I would suggest that you have a very poor >> appreciation of what constitutes scientific understanding. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> http://----------<JUNK SCIENCE LINK SNIPPED>-------------- Im bored now. > >I think YOU need something to think about. > > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Keith P Walsh >Im bored now. I suspect that you're just tired of being confronted with your own ignorance which you are too arrogant to acknowledge and which you are running out of excuses for. It has been known for more than 160 years that when an electrical conductor moves in an electromagnetic field an electromotive force is induced in the conductor, and that when a stationary conductor is subjected to a varying electromagnetic field then an electromotive force is again induced in the conductor. And, in view of the fact that metal amalgam dental fillings are placed in children's teeth, I believe that experimental investigations to measure the electromagnetic properties of dental amalgams should therefore have been carried out. And the results should be available. I don't think I'll ever get bored of pointing this out. Keith P Walsh PS, enquiries concerning the electrical properties of dental amalgams can be found at: http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm I have read your stuff............... Its high school physics at best. You ask questions which have been repeatedly answered - in depth in many cases. You have not put up a credible case that any harm has been done to any children at all. Let me start a new debate : Babies dummies have not been tested for their dielectric properties in the presence of Vitamin C. Therefore this could present a huge health problem. I can't find anything published on this - the research simply has not been done..... This research should be done and made public. They put dummies in babies mouths for goodness sake. Heh ;) > >Im bored now. > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm >I have read your stuff............... > >Its high school physics at best. You ask questions which have been >repeatedly answered - in depth in many cases. REPLY .... and high school dentistry, (in advanced schools of course). JOEL >You have not put up a credible case that any harm has been done to any >children at all. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >> http://book.boot.users.btopenworld.com/intro.htm |
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