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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / April 2009

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removal of amalgam filling ?

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NJPA33 - 18 Mar 2009 19:59 GMT
hello, i've had an amalgam filling in my tooth for about 20 years.
Lately i've been thinking about getting it removed since my immune
system problems seemed to occur right around that time.  (i know....i
waited a pretty long time)

I know many people consider it a quack that these fillings have
nothing to do with health issues, but everybody's body is
different..and I read a few studies indicating that many people
returned back to their normal self after having them removed.  Plus, i
need a lot of new dental work done..so I mine as well get everything
done at once.  Im thinking about going with the white composite
fillings.

was just wondering..since its been 20 years, maybe there's no more
mercury vapor even left to deal with ?  How much time in years is
Mercury active in amalgam ?  forever possibly ?

any info is much appreciated

JB
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 18 Mar 2009 21:34 GMT
> hello, i've had an amalgam filling in my tooth for about 20 years.
> Lately i've been thinking about getting it removed since my immune
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> JB

    Discuss the choice of materials with your dentist, and use the material
that makes the most sense in the specific application.  Composite resin
might be fine for many or all of them, or not.  Most dentists will be
somewhat flexible in considering particular materials, so long as you
understand the advantages and disadvantages of each.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

tenthmed - 18 Mar 2009 21:49 GMT
On Mar 18, 2:59 pm, NJPA33 <newjerse

> was just wondering..since its been 20 years, maybe there's no more
> mercury vapor even left to deal with ?  How much time in years is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> JB

And hence, the crux of the matter, the controversy.
Steven Fawks - 19 Mar 2009 04:11 GMT
I haven't placed an amalgam filling since 1985, but I have seen
no health issues from amalgam fillings and no health benefits
from having them removed.

I prefer *well placed*, bonded composites for direct restorations,
but the decision should not be based on pseudo-science.

Steve Fawks

> hello, i've had an amalgam filling in my tooth for about 20 years.
> Lately i've been thinking about getting it removed since my immune
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> JB
NJPA33 - 19 Mar 2009 04:22 GMT
I appreciate the insight.

are gold fillings really that much expensive ?  I heard their 10 times
more then amalgam.

Should I go to a special dentist to have the amalgam filling
removed ?  I heard I could be exposed to a lot of mercury if done
incorrectly.  I looked in the ADA and found a few that im going to
call tomorrow...then again im guessing maybe anybody with money could
get into the ADA ?

JB
Steven Fawks - 19 Mar 2009 05:00 GMT
Around here, a gold inlay is in a range of $550-$850.  I don't know
what an amalgam might be worth <G>.

Any dentist can remove an amalgam.  If you are concerned about potential
exposure to ground up particles, you should ask for a 'rubber dam'.  If
you are also worried about inhilation of vapors, you want a nose mask
with oxygen as well (and maybe nitrous while you're at it).

When cutting out an amalgam, a diamond tipped bur is recommended to
reduce 'chatter' and potential cracking of surrounding enamel.

Steve Fawks

> I appreciate the insight.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> JB
Jan Drew - 19 Mar 2009 05:23 GMT
> Around here, a gold inlay is in a range of $550-$850.  I don't know
> what an amalgam might be worth <G>.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>> JB

There are correct protocols on the net.
Amatus Cremona - 21 Mar 2009 14:51 GMT
I prefer to use a narrow fissured bur (#256) to remove the amalgam.  It
vibrates a bit and knocks out the metal in big chunks.  I try to avoid
touching the toooth surface with the bur, just the metal.  then,,,,,,,,,,,
switch to the diamond to finish the enamel and dental surfaces.

AC

> Around here, a gold inlay is in a range of $550-$850.  I don't know
> what an amalgam might be worth <G>.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>
>> JB
Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2009 05:55 GMT
>I prefer to use a narrow fissured bur (#256) to remove the amalgam.  It
>vibrates a bit and knocks out the metal in big chunks.  I try to avoid
>touching the toooth surface with the bur, just the metal.  then,,,,,,,,,,,
>switch to the diamond to finish the enamel and dental surfaces.
>
> AC

AC is Stephen Mancuso.

>> Around here, a gold inlay is in a range of $550-$850.  I don't know
>> what an amalgam might be worth <G>.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>>>
>>> JB
NJPA33 - 08 Apr 2009 21:37 GMT
I finally decided to have my teeth done.

I had several cavities filled , and I made sure I told the dentist
atleast twice I would like to have the amalgam completely removed.

So what does he do ?  He shaves it down and puts a white composite
filling in there.

When they removed the rubber dam from my mouth, I asked if they
removed it...and they said they grinded it down and put the white
composite filling in.

I was soo friggin angry at that moment.  but couldnt do much...

All I had for protection was that rubber dam, while they both had
masks on.  Plus I had a lot of saliva build up when the rubber dam was
on..and had to swallow on a couple occasions.

They said the mercury was caught by the rubber dam , so I had nothing
to worry about..

The last week or so i've been tired and headachey all the time.  Think
I have the rights to sue this dentist ?

and is there an easy over the counter way to get my mercury levels
tested ?  maybe one of those hair test kits ?

This was the dentist I had the 2nd opinion with, and I chose him
because he seemed more decent.  looks like I was wrong.

All this paranoia over this and I still get screwed.   Im pretty PO'd
at the moment.
Stormin Mormon - 09 Apr 2009 12:30 GMT
Since hair grows slowly. To properly test, you'll have to
cut off all your  hair, and shave your head with a razor and
shaving cream. And then you'll be able to test the new hair
that grows in.

Signature

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
 www.lds.org
.

I finally decided to have my teeth done.

I had several cavities filled , and I made sure I told the
dentist
atleast twice I would like to have the amalgam completely
removed.

So what does he do ?  He shaves it down and puts a white
composite
filling in there.

When they removed the rubber dam from my mouth, I asked if
they
removed it...and they said they grinded it down and put the
white
composite filling in.

I was soo friggin angry at that moment.  but couldnt do
much...

All I had for protection was that rubber dam, while they
both had
masks on.  Plus I had a lot of saliva build up when the
rubber dam was
on..and had to swallow on a couple occasions.

They said the mercury was caught by the rubber dam , so I
had nothing
to worry about..

The last week or so i've been tired and headachey all the
time.  Think
I have the rights to sue this dentist ?

and is there an easy over the counter way to get my mercury
levels
tested ?  maybe one of those hair test kits ?

This was the dentist I had the 2nd opinion with, and I chose
him
because he seemed more decent.  looks like I was wrong.

All this paranoia over this and I still get screwed.   Im
pretty PO'd
at the moment.
NJPA33 - 10 Apr 2009 00:42 GMT
On Apr 9, 7:30 am, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Since hair grows slowly. To properly test, you'll have to
> cut off all your  hair, and shave your head with a razor and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Learn more about Jesus
>  www.lds.org

regarding Mercury, They say urine tests are more accurate then both
hair & blood tests...
Steven Fawks - 10 Apr 2009 13:22 GMT
> regarding Mercury, They say urine tests are more accurate then both
> hair & blood tests...

Had one in the early 90's.  I hadn't used amalgam for over 5 years,
but I still had a couple in my own mouth and cut at least one
a day out of someone.

I was considerably lower than 'average' for a US citizen.

Steve Fawks
Jan Drew - 19 Mar 2009 05:21 GMT
>I appreciate the insight.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> JB

Do not trust the ADA.  Find a good *mercury-free* dentist.
Dartos - 19 Mar 2009 14:16 GMT
> Do not trust the ADA.  Find a good *mercury-free* dentist.

How many 'clean' hair samples have to be submitted to be
declared 'mercury free'??

LOL
NJPA33 - 19 Mar 2009 18:40 GMT
oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.

The closest location to me that is mercury free has this listed on
their site..as to whats done on the day of the removal.

[QUOTE]
Here is a brief explanation of what we do for you.

There are several procedures we follow prior to removal:

   *
     Blood test and hair analysis to evaluate present health status.
   * Multi vitamin/mineral supplements prior to amalgam removal.
   * Making sure that bowels are open and functioning well.
   * Compatibility blood test to see which dental materials you are
least reactive to.

Day of mercury removal we use the following:

  1. Vitamin C IV, as a mild chelator and as a maintainer of the
bodies level of glutathione
  2. Conscious sedation, for extended visits beyond two hours and to
allow treatment to cross the midline of the body
  3. Mercury Vapor Ionizer to electrically neutralize the mercury
gases
  4. Dental Air Vac Suction
  5. Oxygen for patient with a barrier over nose to greater eliminate
the possibility of breathing in mercury vapor
  6. Complete draping of the body
  7. Protective eyewear for patient
  8. Rubber dam, to isolate the teeth being worked on and prevent
particles from entering the soft tissue of the mouth
  9. Suction behind the rubber dam to absorb mercury gases that
travel through the dam
 10. High speed removal of amalgam with copious amounts of water and
suction, to keep mercury vapor to a minimum
 11. Slow speed drill on dentin, to lessen trauma to the living tooth
 12. Replacing filling with a compatible composite
 13. Completion of all surgical procedures by the doctor
 14. Post treatment education concerning detoxification
 15. Acupressure and massage provided for patient rehabilitation

[/QUOTE]

Why do so many recommend Mercury Free dentists to do the removal ?
are normal dentists horrible and clumsy at removal ?   How do I find a
good, normal , ADA dentist that does amalgam removal ?

and Jan Drew, can you explain how your symptoms improved ?  I highly
doubt my stuff will go away since its been so many years... my immune
system is probably destroyed..from all the years its been trying to
fight off those silver fillings.  No wonder my immune system attacks
itself.. i've had severe allergies and psoriatic arthritis ever
since..  with no history of either in the family.
Dartos - 19 Mar 2009 19:12 GMT
> oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
> all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.
>
> The closest location to me that is mercury free has this listed on
> their site..as to whats done on the day of the removal.

YOU GOT IT!!

;-)
D
Peter Bowditch - 19 Mar 2009 22:11 GMT
>> oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
>> all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>;-)
>D

The best way to evaluate a "mercury free" dentists is to ring them up.
If the background noise sounds like a duck farm then you have hit a
good one.

Any competent dentist can remove amalgam fillings safely. I've had it
done several times.

Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2009 05:42 GMT
>>> oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
>>> all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Any competent dentist can remove amalgam fillings safely. I've had it
> done several times.

Peter denies that  there is such a thing as *mercury amalgams*.

And, he is very wrong.

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/18197828

http://www.elcosh.org/docs/d0500/d000541/d000541.html?gclid=CNrK8pPatZkCFSMeDQod
mkMt-g


http://search.medscape.com/medline-search?newSearch=1&queryText=mercu...

Medline

2,047 documents matched mercury amalgam
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 19 Mar 2009 19:46 GMT
> oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
> all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>     * Compatibility blood test to see which dental materials you are
> least reactive to.

    This is a very, very old story on this newsgroup, and I long ago
wearied of discussing this.
    The main reason is that in a forum like this, issues involving
alternative medicine quickly devolve into yelling matches, and few
people have their minds changed in any meaningful way.
    The issues here are many--some are legitimate questions about the
contribution of amalgam dental restorations to the overall load of
mercury in the body.  This is potentially a valid area for
investigation, but generally the partisans cherry-pick studies that seem
to support their own pre-formed positions.  Likewise, there are
legitimate (and almost certainly more important) issues of occupational
health, to those of us who potentially breathe this stuff every work
day.  This gets little study, and is usually only raised in the context
of how risky the material is as a restorative.
    On the macro level, the issue is raised as an environmental hazard.
Here we can argue about the relative contributions to environmental
mercury contamination of dentistry as compared to (for example)
coal-fired power plants.  This is also a legitimate issue, but dentistry
has greatly tightened regulations for disposal of waste over the time I
have been in practice, and so to the extent the regulations are followed
this should be a far smaller problem than it was.
    Then there is the whole concept of alternative health or (more
specifically) "biologic dentistry" as a market niche.  There is no doubt
that some dentists set themselves up specifically to exploit fear,
mistrust and paranoia against organized medicine, dentistry and big
pharmaceutical industries.  While this is true for some practitioners of
alternative medicine, there are definitely "true believers" out there
who believe in good conscience that they are a needed counterbalance to
the advertising and financial and political power of pharmaceutical
companies and organized medicine.  There is paranoia yes; many will not
trust good sound medical advice as a result.  However, as they say, just
because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.  The
older I get, the more I think the pharmaceutical industry and many in
the healthcare professions have richly earned the mistrust in which they
are held by many people.
    Oh yes--I would avoid the dentist who wants to examine your bowels.
I've heard of dentists "pushing the envelope" of the state dental
practice act, but that's ridiculous.
    IMO, you are probably best off with a compassionate dentist who has a
lot of satisfied patients who recommend him/her.  You should be able to
discuss the various materials needed for your restoration, and come to
an agreement about which is most suitable for your particular situation.

Good luck,
Steve

> Day of mercury removal we use the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> itself.. i've had severe allergies and psoriatic arthritis ever
> since..  with no history of either in the family.

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2009 05:19 GMT
> oh my god.. I just did a search for Mercury Free dentists..and they
> all seem like crooked organizations.  Even the way they look.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>   1. Vitamin C IV, as a mild chelator and as a maintainer of the
> bodies level of glutathione

I did not have to do that.

>   2. Conscious sedation, for extended visits beyond two hours and to
> allow treatment to cross the midline of the body

I never had over two hours of work done at one time and for good eason.

>   3. Mercury Vapor Ionizer to electrically neutralize the mercury
> gases
>   4. Dental Air Vac Suction
>   5. Oxygen for patient with a barrier over nose to greater eliminate
> the possibility of breathing in mercury vapor

>   6. Complete draping of the body
>   7. Protective eyewear for patient
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>  12. Replacing filling with a compatible composite
>  13. Completion of all surgical procedures by the doctor

That would be by the dentist.  They are not doctors.
>  14. Post treatment education concerning detoxification
>  15. Acupressure and massage provided for patient rehabilitation

Didn't do that either.

> [/QUOTE]
>
> Why do so many recommend Mercury Free dentists to do the removal ?

Because they know correct protocol.

> are normal dentists horrible and clumsy at removal ?

By normal, you mean Organized dentists who have denied the fact that mercury
alamgams
can and do cause mercury poisoning?

 How do I find a
> good, normal , ADA dentist that does amalgam removal ?

I would not know.  I learned long ago not to trust the ADA.

> and Jan Drew, can you explain how your symptoms improved ?  I highly
> doubt my stuff will go away since its been so many years... my immune
> system is probably destroyed..from all the years its been trying to
> fight off those silver fillings.  No wonder my immune system attacks
> itself.. i've had severe allergies and psoriatic arthritis ever
> since..  with no history of either in the family.

My mercury amalgams were old, some as old as 40 years.
I did recover, but it is not easy and takes a long time.  Do you know the
mercury amalgams leak and the vapors go to every organ in the body,
especially the brain?

I am sorry you are having so much trouble find a *good* mercury free
dentist.

Try:

http://mercuryfreedentists.com/

My history is long and detailed you can find it under jdrew63929@aol.com and
jdrew1374@sbcglobal.net

Most of it is under jdrew63929@aol.com.

Best,

Jan Drew
Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2009 04:51 GMT
Showed his dishonesty by leaving off the fact that I posted that.

>>I appreciate the insight.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> LOL

We are not posting about hair samples.  We are posting about *removal of
amalgam filling*.
Try to follow, Steven Fawks.
Jan Drew - 19 Mar 2009 05:18 GMT
> hello, i've had an amalgam filling in my tooth for about 20 years.
> Lately i've been thinking about getting it removed since my immune
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> JB

Do not get all the work done at the same time.
Too much stress on the body, and the immune system.

And, yes the mercury vapors go to the brain and all organs.

I had mercury poisoning from *mercury alamgams*
 
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