Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2008
advice needed on old amalgam fillings
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N8N - 15 Dec 2008 16:46 GMT Hi all,
I hope that this is an appropriate place to start this discussion, if not, please let me know where would be appropriate.
OK, backstory - I'm 34 years old, had a family dentist as a kid, and went every year for regular cleanings etc. Also had braces in junior high/early high school but they didn't work out so well (more on that later.) Family dentist only gave me one filling and that was my freshman or sophomore year in college. After I graduated college, I did not have dental insurance so since I had no problems with my teeth I just didn't go to a dentist. Finally got a job with insurance in 2000 but was laid off six months later. Went to a dentist - just picked a name off the list of dentists that participated in my insurance program - quickly before my insurance ran out. Was shocked to hear that I needed to have six (!?!?!?!) teeth filled but went ahead and did it because I didn't know when I would have insurance again. All of the fillings done were amalgam, except for the one done by my old family dentist, not sure what that one was. I did not have a good feeling about this dentist because a) I suspected that he was filling everything that might possibly look like a hole to get the most from my insurance and b) this was in Detroit, not the most affluent area, everything seemed to be done quick and cheap. I didn't have time to find the "rich people's dentist" though.
Fast forward to today. I got a better job about three years ago, but still wasn't having problems with my teeth so put off going to the dentist until I could get a recommendation with a GOOD one. Was recommended a dentist by my PCP and when I checked him out online found that he was highly recommended by all his patients. Went in for the usual irradiating, scraping, and buffing, and was told several things:
1) I apparently have very large, strong roots on all my teeth save for my lower front teeth. Was told that this was possibly due to orthodontic work in the past, that moving teeth too quickly can cause roots to not develop fully or even become reabsorbed. This makes sense, because I quit wearing my retainers in college because while I was told that I only needed to wear them at night, if I did so my teeth would actually shift enough during the day that I'd have to jam the retainers in, and I remember having several mildly loose and sensitive teeth. I decided that I was not vain enough to put up with this for the rest of my natural life and just let my teeth go where they would. I have two noticeably crooked teeth but other than that no issues.
2) I was told that amalgam fillings were "old tech" and that that office hadn't used them at all since the mid-90's. In fact, the dentist flat out told me that in his opinion amalgam fillings, if left in the teeth for 10+ years, eventually would cause the teeth to crack, requiring that they all be capped (at of course great expense.) He only found evidence of decay on one of the filled teeth and recommended that that one be replaced at my next visit, but suggested that I should plan on having ALL of the fillings replaced before too long to prevent issues down the road. My concern is that this will probably cost me over $300 per tooth and I don't know that this will be reimbursed by my insurance (Aetna) He also found a spot on one tooth where the pick would catch on the edge of the filling but said that there was no decay evident, seems to me that that is a sloppy filling and reflects badly on the last dentist.
So... what do I do about these old amalgam fillings? I certainly don't want to end up like my dad with multiple caps on his teeth... does this new dentist sound on the up and up? I'm a little disappointed but honestly based on my impression of the previous dentist am not totally surprised. Should my insurance coverage cover replacement of old amalgam fillings if the teeth are not decaying/ fillings are not loose/etc. or are we getting into morally questionable territory?
thanks for any advice,
nate
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 15 Dec 2008 21:34 GMT > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > nate You should not replace "old tech" fillings because they are "old tech". They should be replaced if they are failing. No filling material is without its problems. Amalgam does expand slightly. For that matter composite resin contracts (not so slightly). The key to a successful filling is correct design of the cavity preparation and correct placement and handling technique of the filling material. Replacing fillings because they pose a theoretical chance of a problem in the future is IMO (and using your words) "getting into morally questionable territory. Get another opinion.
Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
Nate Nagel - 15 Dec 2008 23:15 GMT >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 83 lines] > > Steve Steve,
thanks for your reply. I thought it might be something like that. I thought I had done my homework this time because I had the luxury of not being in a hurry to go...
Do you feel that there is some merit to his position though? Is cracking of teeth more of a problem when they have old amalgam fillings in them as opposed to other types?
I did some googling after I posted that enquiry and found that it seems that amalgam actually on average lasts *longer* than composite resin, which is what I ASSume he's going to want to use... but neither one it sounds like often lasts more than 10-15 years or so. I don't particularly look forward to having fillings redone every decade or two, and particularly so when I assume that every time a tooth is drilled it is farther weakened making it that much more likely that it'll fail at some point...
What's your opinion on gold fillings? How long do those last, should I even consider going down that road? I really would prefer a "permanent" solution if there is one, and my teeth have always been strong and trouble free even given, frankly, indifferent care by Yours Truly at times. I do brush... flossing, not so much. Tartar buildup... awful. (not much I can do about that... I do search out "firm" toothbrushes, which are hard to find, and use tartar control or baking soda toothpastes... still grows like weeds.)
thanks again for any thoughts.
Nate
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Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 15 Dec 2008 23:55 GMT > I did some googling after I posted that enquiry and found that it seems > that amalgam actually on average lasts *longer* than composite resin, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Nate Gold is a wonderful material. Direct gold is almost never used anymore--most commonly as a filling material in licensure exams. The theory seems to be that it is so labor-intensive to place that if you can do a good gold foil filling you can do anything. Cast gold is also terrific. In this age of radioactive-white teeth, patients don't much go for the look of gold anymore. But gold works very well. The only crown in my mouth is a lower molar crown made of cast gold. Old amalgam fillings can fail. In general, the larger the filling, the greater the chance of failure. Really large cavities should onlay the cusps--regardless of the material used. Crowns may be advisable, but sacrifice greater amounts of tooth structure. No restoration should be represented as lasting forever. None will guarantee permanence, esp. if your oral hygiene is subpar. You may never get another cavity, and then lose your teeth to periodontal disease. Get a good trustworthy dentist who will not overtreat. Oh, and learn to love flossing. ;-)
Steve
 Signature Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001
N8N - 16 Dec 2008 21:24 GMT On Dec 15, 6:55 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
> > I did some googling after I posted that enquiry and found that it seems > > that amalgam actually on average lasts *longer* than composite resin, [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Get a good trustworthy dentist who will not overtreat. Oh, and learn > to love flossing. ;-) So if I'm understanding you correctly the cost premium of a gold filling is FAR more than that of just the added cost of the material... yes?
sounds like I should probably just schedule the one filling to be replaced (I'm assuming dentist wants to use composite) and worry about the others if/when I have to? or is there actually a valid case for proactively replacing what appear to be perfectly functional and non- problematic amalgam fillings?
nate
Steven Bornfeld - 16 Dec 2008 23:03 GMT > On Dec 15, 6:55 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld > <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > nate I think both Dartos and I were pretty clear that the only benefit of being "pro-active" in this case is likely to be to the dentist's finances. In the case of the one filling, if there is decay it should be replaced with an appropriate material. Yes, the cost differential of either direct gold or cast gold will be greater than the differential in the cost of gold--because of the increased time of placement in the first place, and the use of a dental lab in the second. However, if this is a big filling, you will be getting a superior restoration with cast gold. If it's a small filling, it hardly matters what you use.
Steve
Nate Nagel - 16 Dec 2008 23:24 GMT >> On Dec 15, 6:55 pm, Mark & Steven Bornfeld >> <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > Steve I don't have any large fillings, so suspect I'll just get the one fixed and not worry about it.
I have to admit I'm pretty unfamiliar with things dental because I've just never had to be (I try to be sympathetic when I hear of people having serious restoration work done, but I can't honestly say that I understand what's involved - worst dental experience of my life was simply having two wisdom teeth removed, and the worst part of that was just the muscle pain from the surgeon having to manhandle my jaw,) so I appreciate all the advice.
nate
 Signature replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Newbie@bix.nex - 18 Dec 2008 21:51 GMT >is there actually a valid case for >proactively replacing what appear to be perfectly functional and non- >problematic amalgam fillings? > >nate In a word: No.
goldbanjo - 16 Dec 2008 00:00 GMT Nate, I'm not a dentist but a regular reader and poster here. I wanted to make a comment on the tartar situation and what helped me. First of all, I don't think most dentists recommend hard toothbrushes as they can damage gums. Mine always gives me extra soft after my cleanings, every 3 months. I floss, use water pik and brush after every meal. Even then, there is still some white stuff remaining. Get a rubber tip on the metal stick (GUM makes them). After you floss and brush, take the tip and go around every tooth, front and back and remove this white stuff because that's what hardens and turns into plaque/tartar. If you catch it early, it won't happen...or at least you can lessen it. Watch the area near your front bottom teeth because that's where it collects a lot. I know this ritual will take time but it has helped me a lot. I have advanced gum disease because I had years of tartar as a younger person and didn't know the ramifications of it and am now paying the price with bone loss and extractions. You said there's nothing you can do about it but there is, just don't let it accumulate and harden (and get frequent cleanings). My periodontist has seen a great change since I started doing this. Good luck.
Dartos - 16 Dec 2008 20:40 GMT I can give you another opinion right now.
I haven't used amalgam since 1985, but I do not remove functional amalgams.
There is no evidence that replacing old amalgams will lessen the chance of cracked teeth. It may even start or propogate cracks just by drilling them out!
Yes, they may need crowns someday, but that may happen no matter what you do today.
Either a crook, or someone that has swallowed a bunch of hooey.
D
> You should not replace "old tech" fillings because they are "old > tech". They should be replaced if they are failing. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Steve
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