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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / December 2008Acidity of coffee and juice
I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't aggravated by the toothpaste. Coffee is also acidic, so I want to know if I should wait after drinking coffee, before I brush my teeth, and if so, how long to wait. Robert > I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before > brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't aggravated by [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Robert IMO, caries risk in the 20 minutes after ingestion of fermentable carbohydrate outweighs the risk of chemical erosion FOR MOST PATIENTS. If you have a particular problem with erosion, this should be considered. There is no carbohydrate in coffee (unless of course the coffee is accompanied by cream, sugar, danish, etc. ;-) so there is certainly no harm in not brushing right after coffee. Steve  SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before >> brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't aggravated [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Steve Thanks, Steve. I'm confused, though. My dental hygienist said the best thing I can do for my gum disease is to reduce or avoid coffee. (I think I remember she said it was because of the acidity of the coffee). I was also told by at least two dentists/hygienists that after drinking orange juice I should wait a while before brushing , because of the acidity. So if I'm supposed to wait after drinking orange juice before brushing, it would make sense that I _should_ wait after drinking coffee before brushing, if it's also acid in the coffee that could harm my gums. I _do_ add half and half cream to my coffee. Robert On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- tech.net> wrote: > >> I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before > >> brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't aggravated [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Robert I hope someone will jump in here and straighten this chap out about OJ and coffee! Absolutely NO, ZERO, NONE, NICHTS, KEIN correlation between coffee and "gum" problems. And brushing BEFORE the OJ makes the OJ taste really bad - like Jaegermeister - YUK. > On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- > tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > between coffee and "gum" problems. And brushing BEFORE the OJ makes > the OJ taste really bad - like Jaegermeister - YUK. I'll take your word for it on the Jaegermeister. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 > On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- > tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > between coffee and "gum" problems. And brushing BEFORE the OJ makes > the OJ taste really bad - like Jaegermeister - YUK. By researching on the Internet, I just found evidence (The U.S. Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine) athttp://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:be-I47F77xEJ:chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/documents/fact/fsaciderosion-220111105.pdf+coffee+acidic+dent al&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=ca reports that coffee is acidic, and it implies that coffee therefore can cause tooth/gum damage. The document corroborates the warning of my hygienist about acid damage caused by coffee. It states that, "Damage usually occurs to the teeth along the gum line, and is often followed by decay, as seen at right." On that Web page I also found the answer to the timing question I asked: > Wait at least 30 minutes, preferably an hour, before brushing after eating or drinking acidic foods I wonder, Tenthmed, what your qualifications are for dispensing health advice, as your advice contradicts the advice of my hygienist and the tenets of the U.S. Army health center. Robert On Dec 9, 4:49 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- tech.net> wrote: > > On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- > > tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Robert Jeekis! I was actually on AD in the ARMY for 10 years. See my moniker. There is NO correlation between WHATEVER acidity you may find in COFFEE or OJ, unless OF COURSE, you happen to be a LAB RAT who is bathed in the stuff 24/7 until death and histological sectioning occurs. Otherwise, there is NO CLINICAL significance to what these "professionals" have told you. Just like pregnancy robs calcium from the teeth of a pregnant mother - it just CANNOT happen. Please get real. If you have gum disease - no offence - YOU are the problem, not your environment. > On Dec 9, 4:49 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- > tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > real. If you have gum disease - no offence - YOU are the problem, not > your environment. I blame my parents. Steve Your rude comments aside... What you are finding is a case where research is being forced to find something new to research. I will agree that acidic food/drink can have a *slight* negative effect on tooth enamel. However, real world observations show these effects to be minimal. Decay is much more dependant upon plaque, the specific types of bacteria growing in that plaque, and the 'feeding' of that bacteria (sugar exposure). The raw pH of coffee is about 5 to 5.5 depending on specific brew techniques and the coffee used. Diet sodas can be as low as 3.0. The moment either of these fluids is placed in the mouth, it is immediately being mixed with saliva (much higher pH), and then swallowed. You are not placing a tooth in a low pH solution and letting it soak for hours. Plaque on the other hand forms a gelatinous film on the teeth and the sugar exposures lead to acid being formed in and under that layer of crud which is right against the enamel of the teeth and protected from the neutralizing abilities of saliva. The pH easily slips below 4.0 and can remain that way for hours and hours. If I can get a 'soda-holic' to switch to diet soda or coffee instead of their normal high sugar soda, decay ceases to exist (as long as there are no sugar habits substituted and decent home care is demonstrated). Why? Because the decay producing bacteria are no longer being fed their prefered diet (sugar). Brushing and flossing then have more effect because the bacteria are not reproducing as fast, are not metabolizing the sugars into as much acid, and saliva is able to do a better job neutralizing what acids do appear. Less harmful bacteria even compete for a niche to further reduce the decay producing bacterial levels. So if you want to split hairs, coffee is technically on the acidic side of the fence. But if you aren't adding sugar and fermentable carbs, it will have a minimal effect causing decay and even erosion. Sugar sipping is the real enemy. Some kids I see with decay problems are getting chocolate milk and apple juice! Sounds less dangerous than Pepsi, but not for decay. Tenthmed is absolutely correct from a clinical stand point. That's where you will find most of our advice. Real world, practical clinical results on real live patients. You owe tm an apology. D > By researching on the Internet, I just found evidence (The U.S. Army > Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Robert > Your rude comments aside... > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > D Thanks for the detailed explications. I don't owe 'Tenthmed' an apology, and I wasn't rude to him. He's a stranger on the Internet. He doesn't identify himself as a professional. As I pointed out, he gave apparently unsubstantiated advice that contradicts mainstream health advice of individual dental professionals and groups of health professionals. It would be naive and gullible of me to accept his advice without asking him to substantiate. Even if he were a professional, his advice should be questioned; even professionals disagree with one another. And I've even encountered professionals who advised particular action and a few months later advised the opposite action, even though no relevant circumstances had changed during the intervening months. These statements are so obvious, I shouldn't need to give them. Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, yet I'm supposed to blindly believe whatever unsubstiated claims unidentified strangers here make about how I should manage the disease and I'm expected to apologize for being skeptical. I don't understand why I keep encountering advisors in newsgroups who advise with substantiating, and then are offended when their advice is challenged. It implies that the advisors think that they always know best and can never be wrong – or even partially wrong – and that the people seeking advice should be as easily led as sheep led by a sheepdog. Robert Thanks >> By researching on the Internet, I just found evidence (The U.S. Army >> Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> Robert >Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead >to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, You post that as if it established fact when it is not. Certainly perio disease needs to be treated but there is no evidence that perio disease causes heart attacks or strokes. Other factors, like C reactive protein, may be occurring independently. >> Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead >> to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > disease causes heart attacks or strokes. Other factors, like C > reactive protein, may be occurring independently. I agree. Papers I've read inferring a cause and effect relationship between periodontal disease on the one hand and cerebrovascular and cardiovascular disease on the other are weak to me. There are claims of eliminating "confounding variables" such as concomitant smoking and dietary factors, but I've never seen an explanation of how this was done. From what I've read, the evidence is a little stronger for causation of low birth weight. Of course, the periodontists love this, but I wouldn't jump on it. Steve On Dec 10, 8:16 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead > >> to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > done. From what I've read, the evidence is a little stronger for > causation of low birth weight. So all this business about getting heart disease from gum disease problems is basically a scare tactic? Bah! You know, it's just wrong to scare people without just cause. Really wrong. btw, I'm getting my firs c-reactive protein test next month so I can see how that's doing. I'm really glad to know this may be just a scare tactic. It's sad to see it passed around like its the truth amongst us regular people. > On Dec 10, 8:16 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > to see it passed around like its the truth amongst us regular > people. The operative word here is "may". I don't think the book is complete on "C-reactive protein" yet. It appears to be very non-specific. I cannot rule out a causal relationship between periodontal disease and cardiovascular/cerebrovascular disease. But as we discover again and again, association does not mean causation. You should strive for good periodontal health because you want to keep your teeth--that is a worthy goal. Anyone saying "floss or die" is really overstepping, IMO. Steve On Dec 11, 6:58 am, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net> wrote: > The operative word here is "may". I don't think the book is complete > on "C-reactive protein" yet. It appears to be very non-specific. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > periodontal health because you want to keep your teeth--that is a worthy > goal. Of course it is. > Anyone saying "floss or die" is really overstepping, IMO. well that's the scare tactic I have a problem with. It's really wrong. 'Us regulars' aren't using it. I agree with Steve (big surprise <G>). The same things that cause heart disease *probably* cause other diseases within the human body. Treating the perio problem in a vacuum is not likely to prevent these other problems from arising. Of course, the perio may not be *successfully* treated without improving the overall health of the patient as well.... D >> Anyone saying "floss or die" is really overstepping, IMO. > well that's the scare tactic I have a problem with. It's really > wrong. > 'Us regulars' aren't using it. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > D I am prepared for a flogging if it turns out periodontal disease causes coronary artery disease. Now I'm on the record! Steve >>> Anyone saying "floss or die" is really overstepping, IMO. > >> well that's the scare tactic I have a problem with. It's really >> wrong. SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >> 'Us regulars' aren't using it. >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Steve Inform SB's wife immediately to unpack the dominatrix outfit ! >So all this business about getting heart disease from gum disease >problems [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >to see it passed around like its the truth amongst us regular >people. It's not a scare tactic and some people believe it. I just think the evidence has not proven it yet but may in the future. The calcium test is also good to get. >>So all this business about getting heart disease from gum disease >>problems [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >The calcium test is also good to get. So is a PSA. But one has nothing to do with the other. >So is a PSA. > >But one has nothing to do with the other. But the calcium test does have to do with the heart which was the topic of discussion. http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Diseases/cscan/cscan_all.html > On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:25:36 -0800 (PST), dumb_fishie99 . > It's not a scare tactic and some people believe it. I just think the > evidence has not proven it yet but may in the future. ah, I see. > The calcium test is also good to get. Calcium test? Ah well, too late, I already got the prescription for the blood tests. I will see if that's included once I get the results back; there are a lot of tests on that sript. Good to know though thanks. >> I agree. Papers I've read inferring a cause and effect relationship >> between periodontal disease on the one hand and cerebrovascular and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >people >without just cause. Really wrong. Well, not exactly. There is some evidence from veterinary medicine regarding heart, kidney, and liver Dz, correlated to perio dz. But how many dogs seek out the hygienist every six months ? >>> Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even >>> lead to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Steve I typed "periodontal disease" stroke "heart attacks" in Google and got 44,800 results. Some examples: http://www.perio.org/consumer/mbc.heart.htm > Researchers have found that people with periodontal disease are almost twice as likely to suffer from coronary artery disease as those without periodontal disease. http://www.saveyoursmile.com/healthygums/heartattacksstrokes.html > An ever-growing body of research links advanced gum disease and the occurence of heart attacks and strokes. > In studies conducted in the United States, Canada, Great Britain, Sweden, and Germany, researchers found that people with advanced gum disease also had a 25% to 100% increased risk of suffering from a heart attack than those without advanced gum disease. By comparison, those who smoke have a 60% increased risk of suffering from a heart attack than those who do not. > > A similar relationship exists between advanced gum disease and the development of strokes. http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/f896a.htm > AAN MEETING: Periodontal Disease May Increase Risk Of Stroke > > TORONTO, ON -- April 21, 1999 -- People with periodontal disease are more likely to have thickened carotid arteries, which can lead to stroke and heart disease, according to a study released at the American Academy of Neurology's 51st annual meeting in Toronto. > For the study, 52 people who had never had a stroke were given oral exams and ultrasound tests to determine the thickness of their carotid arteries, which are the two main arteries in the neck supplying blood to the head. > The people with the most periodontal disease had the most thickening of the arteries. On average, the carotid artery wall was thicker by about one-half millimetre in the group with the most periodontal disease than in the group with the least periodontal disease. > "This means that periodontal disease may not just present a problem with oral hygiene and pose a risk for loss of teeth, but it may in fact present a problem with cardiovascular health and loss of neurological function or loss of life as well," said study author and neurologist Mitchell Elkind, MD, of Columbia University in New York. And I've only skimmed the surface with these quotes. Of course, if your mind is closed, you won't believe the facts, just as the minds were closed of the doctors who believed that smoking didn't cause serious health problems, and the fools who are climate change deniers. I experienced this phenomenon of stupid, closed-minded doctors myself. I had one of the top ten-rated glaucoma doctors on the world, but despite his rank, he denied that there were any natural supplements or natural regimens that could help glaucoma patients. He claimed that once optic nerves are damaged by glaucoma, the damage can't be reversed. I developed blind spots which grew at different rates in both eyes. The blind spots indicated nerve damage caused by glaucoma, and they showed up on three consecutive visual field tests. The doctor told me I would soon need glaucoma surgery. I embarked on a quest to find alternative remedies, spending hundreds of hours researching the topic. I found many peer-reviewed, double-blind, placebo-controlled scientific studies published in medical and ophtalmological journals that demonstrated that a variety of natural therapies can not only slow, but also stop and even reverse glaucoma damage (contradicting what my glaucoma specialist had told me) so I started to apply the therapies and take the supplements. On my next visual field test, the blind spots had cleared completely from both eyes. The glaucoma specialist said the results should be impossible and had no explanation. A placebo effect was not a factor because I had been seriously worried that the natural regimen would fail and that I'd need to have the glaucoma surgery. That was about a decade ago and I remain on the regimen and have had no glaucoma damage since then. Even though I'm just a layman with a journalism degree, I outwitted one of the top doctors on the globe! The only regimens the doctor believed in were the standard drugs and surgery. His narrow thinking automatically ruled out any other possibilities. You guys remind me of that doctor; your minds are closed and you believe only what you want to believe – not what the evidence clearly shows you should believe. That's partly why I'm skeptical of what people tell me; I couldn't even trust one of the top ten glaucoma specialists on the planet to know what he was talking about! When I encounter such closed-minded people, I think of the adage, "There are none so blind as those who will not see." There's plenty of evidence that advanced gum disease can lead to strokes and heart attacks, but your minds are closed to that evidence. So, as with the glaucoma, I can make up mind own mind on the gum disease/stroke/heart disease topic, and choose to believe that they are related because of the substantial and mounting evidence of that, and I choose to ignore the opinions of rogue dentists (if that's what you are) because your opinions on that topic appear to be just as extremely irrational and foolish as those of the climate change deniers and my former glaucoma specialist. And your stupid denial of the link is another reason why I was wise to be skeptical of whatever advice I get on newsgroups (or from any other source, for that matter) and why you're arrogant to have written that I owe 'Tenthmed' an apology for being skeptical of his advice. Robert >>>> Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even >>>> lead to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > > Robert Repeat after me: Association is NOT the same as causation. Notice that most of the sources you quote posit a correlation between gum disease and cardiovascular/cerebrovascular disease. All of them waffle on the subject of cause and effect. It may be that carotid thickening causes periodontal disease. Oh, and about the "confounding variables"--it could just be that overweight, diabetes, smoking--all associated with increased risk and severity of periodontal disease--might just have more to do with the increased risk of cardiovascular disease/cerebrovascular disease than the periodontal disease itself. The verdict is really out on this. But a couple of studies suggested it, and the periodontists jumped all over this. I'm an old, pretty cynical bastard. When someone trumpets a new medical "truth" that will "revolutionize" clinical practice, I look, I read, and I wait a while. I think I do keep my mind somewhat open, but not so open that my brains fall out. Good luck, Steve >Repeat after me: Association is NOT the same as causation. Notice that >most of the sources you quote posit a correlation between gum disease [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Good luck, >Steve He's accusing others of being closed minded while at the same time refusing to understand the difference between association and causation. >> Repeat after me: Association is NOT the same as causation. Notice that >> most of the sources you quote posit a correlation between gum disease [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > refusing to understand the difference between association and > causation. It's not really an easy concept for most people, and the distinction is often overlooked--as you must surely know. Steve > It's not really an easy concept for most people, and the distinction is >often overlooked--as you must surely know. > >Steve I agree it's not an easy concept but if someone holds him or herself out as an expert, then that person should be familiar with it. > I'm an old, pretty cynical bastard. When someone trumpets a new medical >"truth" that will "revolutionize" clinical practice, I look, I read, and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Good luck, >Steve Me too. Please pass the Scotch. > And your stupid denial of the link > Robert 'We' haven't denied any and all connections between perio and other illnesses. 'We' just think the *cause* of the other problems is likely to be a factor in the development of perio, not that perio is the disease that starts it all. Funny that you are so skeptical of dentists with 15-30 years of experience, and then you rattle off 'research' from an internet search. Over 95% of the patients I see with perio are *SMOKERS*. Not much of a stretch to see that smokers are also at a high risk for cardiac/circulatory disorders. So if you are a smoker and you have perio, big surprise...NOT! If you have perio and are not a smoker, it is very possible something is not right with your overall health. Of the research done in the medical field, only a handful is really ground breaking, well done work. Researchers are in a profession of research. It's often publish or perish. This leads to a lot of slop out there that the media (who just wants a story to print or put on the air) will grab and hype for a day. If you really want to prove something by research, you need a double blind study with only *ONE* variable between the groups, and a large enough sample size to make it have good p value. Since that is virtually impossible with medical research, they go for huge sample sizes and claim to "adjust" the data to take into account factors like sex, age, smoking, race, weight, etc. Not a very reliable way to actually prove anything. Insinuating a connection is easy though. That's why you can find research to supports about any view you want to believe. BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. Steve Fawks >> And your stupid denial of the link Robert > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Steve Fawks Now you tell me. >> BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. >> >> Steve Fawks >> > Now you tell me. You didn't buy more Enzyte did you?? ;-) Steve >>> BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > ;-) > Steve No, but I have a crate of Krebiozen and Laetrile in the back, next to the N2. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>> BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Steve Kewl ! May I send a pallette of E-meters and 12 cases of Dianetics soft-backs to store in the warehouse ? All Hail Xenu ! -or- Xemu, whatev... >>> BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. >>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >;-) >Steve Didn't you get the starter pack that we sent ? >> And your stupid denial of the link >> Robert [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Over 95% of the patients I see with perio are *SMOKERS*. 100% of my perio patients are breathing and have a heart beat. 100% of my perio patients have poor hygiene and do not seek regular dental care. The 'smokers' are characters led by Dennis Hopper in "Water World" with Kevin Costner, right ? That's a stretch dude. >Not much >of a stretch to see that smokers are also at a high risk for >cardiac/circulatory disorders. So if you are a smoker and you have >perio, big surprise...NOT! If you have perio and are not a smoker, >it is very possible something is not right with your overall health. Better: If you are a smoker and have heart/lung/pulmonary disease That is NOT a surprise. If you are a heavy drinker and have liver disease that's not a surprise either. If you don't brush and floss your teeth effectively and daily, then perio dz is not a surprise. >Of the research done in the medical field, only a handful is >really ground breaking, well done work. Researchers are in a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Since that is virtually impossible with medical research, In humans, at least at this time in history. Was tried in the past by some inhumane thugs. >they go >for huge sample sizes and claim to "adjust" the data to take into >account factors like sex, age, smoking, race, weight, etc. Not a >very reliable way to actually prove anything. Insinuating a connection >is easy though. That's why you can find research to supports about >any view you want to believe. Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. >BTW, stupid is trying to become an expert by using google for a day. > >Steve Fawks Ignorance is the bane of those who are yet to be taught. Stupidity is the inability to learn. A distinct difference. >> Of course, the periodontists love this, but I wouldn't jump on it. >> >> Steve > >I typed "periodontal disease" stroke "heart attacks" in Google and got >44,800 results. Some examples: Yeah, I believe everything posted on the internet too ! NOT! >Yeah, I believe everything posted on the internet too ! > > NOT! I see that type of thing often mentioned . Just because someone searches for two topics doesn't mean that all of the hits are for both of them. They are for any word mentioned. >>Yeah, I believe everything posted on the internet too ! >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >searches for two topics doesn't mean that all of the hits are for both >of them. They are for any word mentioned. That's why I use Advanced Ask.com >That's why I use Advanced Ask.com I don't know why but I couldn't get it to load. >>Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead >>to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >disease causes heart attacks or strokes. Other factors, like C >reactive protein, may be occurring independently. Not to mention double cheese burgers ! <my fave> >Not to mention double cheese burgers ! <my fave> There is that. However having a heart attack isn't fun. I know from personal experience earlier this year. And my total cholesterol was under 200 when I was having the heart attack. >>Not to mention double cheese burgers ! <my fave> > >There is that. > >However having a heart attack isn't fun. I know from personal >experience earlier this year. Very sorry to hear that. > And my total cholesterol was under 200 >when I was having the heart attack. So sorry tthat you proved that cholesterol count has nothing to do with probability of MI. I did the Atkins for about 3 years, ate nothing but eggs, cheese, beef, pork, chicken, veggies, salads, etc... Cashews, Pecans, and Pistachios were snacks. Kept my carbs under 20 gm/day. <that's one slice of bread, or one tortilla> No bread, pasta, donuts, sugar, cheesecake, etc. Was hard at first, but was easy to adapt. My cholesterol was 167 after eating 6 eggs, 1/2 lb. of bacon, and drinking three cups of coffee with real cream. No sucrose, glucose, or any kind of complex carbs. My friendly doc that has treated me for over 15 years was amazed. We had a good laugh, and went out for a Double Cheeseburger with Bacon, Jalapenos, and extra pickles. Just to celebrate lunch ! The buns ended up in the circular file. No fries were included. No soda. Just some nice, clean, freshly brewed, un-sweetened tea. Then we ran about 4 miles around the track. Had to go back to work; unfortunately, the deer were ready to harvest and were teasing us. Gonna get a backpack for my bow for next time. Yum. I luv venison. We have more deer out here on the "Point" than we have people. There is at least one in my yard every day. Signature/ Amatus / > >>>Not to mention double cheese burgers ! <my fave> [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Yum. > I luv venison. >>> I wonder, Tenthmed, what your qualifications are for dispensing >>> health advice, as your advice contradicts the advice of my hygienist >>> and the tenets of the U.S. Army health center. >>> >>> Robert Healthy skepticism is a good idea (especially on the internet). I think most of the 'regulars' on this list realize over time who is giving sound advice, and who isn't. No way you can know that over a week or two. However, you might have used a little of that same skepticism when you were getting fed that line about brushing your teeth after drinking coffee. <G> 'Proving' something in a lab is not proving anything when it comes to live patients. It cannot be substituted for observing real people for years and years. So, although you don't know 'us', we have more actual clinical experience than most dental professionals you will encounter. 'We' also have not become entrenched in one belief to exclude new ideas and techniques. 'We' also have *nothing* to *sell* you, and no solicitation to visit us in RL to make a dime from our posts on this site. Something you might want to consider... D >>>> I wonder, Tenthmed, what your qualifications are for dispensing >>>> health advice, as your advice contradicts the advice of my hygienist [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > D I'm sure you're not speaking for Dr. Dave. ;-) Steve LOL!! Forgot about him entirely. I do not consider him 'one of the regulars'. D >> 'We' also have *nothing* to *sell* you, and no solicitation to visit >> us in RL to make a dime from our posts on this site. >> >> Something you might want to consider... >> >> D > I'm sure you're not speaking for Dr. Dave. ;-) > > Steve >Peiodontal disease can cause serious helath problems. It can even lead >to death via heart disease or stroke if it's not managed properly, If you could prove that you would deserve a Nobel prize. > On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- > tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > between coffee and "gum" problems. And brushing BEFORE the OJ makes > the OJ taste really bad - like Jaegermeister - YUK. I just dug a bit deeper, and found more evidence that you don't know what you're writing about, 'Tehthmed': > http://www.tenderlovingcaredds.com/DentalErosion.aspx That page lists coffee with a P.H. level of five, and it says any food whose number is under seven is acidic and therefore causes dental harm. Robert >> On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- >> tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >Robert Theoretically. Are you familiar with logarithms? >>That page lists coffee with a P.H. level of five, and it says any food >>whose number is under seven is acidic and therefore causes dental harm. >> >>Robert > >Theoretically. Are you familiar with logarithms? Isn't that beating on a felled tree with some sticks ? A very ancient form of percussion, sure. Log-A-Rhythm, right ? ;-]] >> On Dec 8, 4:47 pm, Robert Montgomery <info-bl...@northern-data- >> tech.net> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Robert The problem with that factoid is that this blanket statement is inferred from studies like this one: http://pediatricdentistry.metapress.com/content/1157l653t8206100/ Note that Starbucks coffee doesn't appear particularly destructive. More importantly, note how long the teeth were immersed in the various beverages. I like coffee too, but... Steve >>> I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before >>> brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't aggravated [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Robert Coffee is not a periodontal risk AFAIK. If you're concerned about the orange juice, rinse out with water first. There is a theoretical risk of some decalcification going on with any acidic juice--but OJ just isn't that acidic. Maybe the folks who take vinegar will have more of a problem. The stuff just isn't in contact with the enamel long enough to cause a real problem in my experience. Heavily sugared and carbonated drinks--another story. Steve SignatureMark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 >>>> I was told by my dentist to wait after drinking orange juice before >>>> brushing my teeth, so that the acidity of the juice isn't [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Steve Thanks to you respondents for the information. Robert |
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