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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / November 2008

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irrigation

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gojlt2 - 19 Nov 2008 04:55 GMT
I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
"Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
insurance does not cover. The procedure involved a syringe filled with
a colored liquid which the hygenist squirted on my gums and teeth. It
took a total of 15 seconds or less. The liquid may have been mouthwash
for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.
Dartos - 19 Nov 2008 14:25 GMT
> I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
> expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.

You are basically dealing with two issues here.

1.  Questionable services and billing by the dental office.

2.  'Insurance' coverage.

I do not know of any offices who spray a rinse on teeth after cleaning
and charge almost 50 bucks.  Sounds bogus to me.

However, it is very possible you are signed up with an HMO type of
dental plan where you have to go to certain 'preferred providers'.

With that type of plan, the dentist agrees to discounted fees and
even providing some services low or no fee.  In order to compensate
for the lost income, some offices toss in unusual charges that the
insurance lists as uncovered.  If the insurance does not cover the
procedure, the patient is usually on the hook to pay.

On the other side of the coin, the insurance company does not care
about you or your dental health.  They only care about MONEY.  They
want to squeeze as much out of your employer, you, and the treating
dental office as they can.  All of their talk about 'quality care'
and helping you manage costs are advertizing mumbo jumbo.

There are sevices they will exclude that may be in your best interests.
Believing the insurance company would cover any reasonable treatment
is a *very* poor assumption indeed.  The insco is not your friend.

Dental insurance isn't even real insurance.  It is a pre-paid dental
benefit.  Your employer and likely you contribute money into the
insco coffer.  Then the insco lets some of it out to buy you
dental treatment.  The insco shops around and finds out how they can
pay the least for treatment that you will accept so it can keep the
most profit.  Might want to look into 'direct reimbursement'.  You
and your employer take care of your money and decide what gets paid
instead of a third party skimming money off of the top and giving
you crap for care.

Do you find the absolute cheapest restaurant, clothes, hair
salon/barber, mechanic, etc.??  At least your hair can grow out
of a bad cut.

So, remember:  There is no free lunch.  Plus:  Sometimes you get
what you pay for, and sometimes you get less.

D
Bill - 19 Nov 2008 19:33 GMT
> I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
> expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.

Don't expect insurance to cover ANYTHING that is not in their
financial interest.

The insurance company exists only to make a profit, not to oversee
good dental care. Since insurance companies do not have the education
necessary to determine good dentistry, they are not in a position to
determine what is good or what is bad.

That being said, it sounds like your dental office might be padding
your bill with dubious "treatment" that is just a means to make up for
cheap insurance. I don't know any legitimate scientific studies that
show a single 15 second rinse is of any lasting benefit to you
whatsoever -- but there are lots of "rinse" companies who try to sell
stuff to the dentist on the basis that the dentist will make a
financial profit. That is quite a bit different from selling something
that actually does any good. A single 15-second rinse just doesn't
pass the "stink" test.

By the way -- how did you choose this dentist? Did you ask your
neighbors and friends for the names of dentists who have proven
themselves to be honest and fair for years and years? Did you check
into their backgrounds and education, and discuss their philosophies
of conservative treatment?

Or did you just go to any old dentist that the cheap insurance company
lined up for you?

- dentaldoc
Amatus Cremona - 20 Nov 2008 01:43 GMT
Listen as we sing the "HMO Blues"

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
> expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.
gojlt2 - 21 Nov 2008 18:53 GMT
> I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
> expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, my employer started a Dental HMO
option for dental benefits, and I am "participating". There aren't
many D-HMO dentists from which to choose in my area, and I chose the
dentist closest to the office.  Seems I need to select the
conventional dental coverage as soon as possible. I wish a method
existed to find a quality dentist with reasonable fees.
Amatus Cremona - 21 Nov 2008 19:41 GMT
Now, do you understand how a dental office can possibly afford to stay in
business and provide your "covered" services at less than the overhead cost
to perform these servives??

AC

> I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> for all I know. Was I ripped off? If it was really beneficial, I would
> expect insurance to cover at least half of the fee. Thanks.

Thanks for all the replies. Yes, my employer started a Dental HMO
option for dental benefits, and I am "participating". There aren't
many D-HMO dentists from which to choose in my area, and I chose the
dentist closest to the office.  Seems I need to select the
conventional dental coverage as soon as possible. I wish a method
existed to find a quality dentist with reasonable fees.
Newbie@bix.nex - 21 Nov 2008 22:09 GMT
>Now, do you understand how a dental office can possibly afford to stay in
>business and provide your "covered" services at less than the overhead cost
>to perform these servives??
>
>AC

Think you coined a new word there sister.

Services + Survives...

Freudian, no doubt.
Amatus Cremona - 24 Nov 2008 03:13 GMT
OOOPS

Signature

/

Amatus

/

>
>>Now, do you understand how a dental office can possibly afford to stay in
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Freudian, no doubt.
Newbie@bix.nex - 21 Nov 2008 22:57 GMT
>> I had a dental cleaning today. The hygenist had on my chart to apply
>> "Antibacterial Irrigation-FM" Code D4997 for a fee of $46.25 which
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>Thanks for all the replies.

Yer welcomed.

>Yes, my employer started a Dental HMO
>option for dental benefits, and I am "participating".

Not uncommon.

> There aren't
>many D-HMO dentists from which to choose in my area,

No surprise there.

> and I chose the
>dentist closest to the office.  

Reasonable.

>Seems I need to select the
>conventional dental coverage as soon as possible.

Are you sure ?

>I wish a method
>existed to find a quality dentist with reasonable fees.

The 'method'  actually already exists.

Forget dental 'insurance' and find a nice friendly, toasty,
homestyle dental office.
If it looks like a cattle shop, keep looking.

Recommendations from older acquaintances, friends, mothers,
grandpa's, even your girlfriend's aunt's cousin, can be helpful.

Find a dentist without the largest ad in the phonebook,
not signed up on your "employers plan", and has a good
local rep, with many years in practice. 10+ is a good starting
point.

Then expect to pay for services competently rendered.
Focus on quality not cost.

If you balance the cost of so called dental 'insurance' versus
what it actually costs to fix dental pathology; you would be surprised
to find that in the long run "Dental Insurance" only benefits the
insurance company.
Not the patient, and not the doctor.

This is what scares me when the government says they want
to "FIX" healthcare.

There are so very few POLITICIANS that are actually practitioners in
any medical field, and yet they want to dictate your treatment.
They don't have a frakkin' clue. Most employers don't either.

>a quality dentist with reasonable fees.

What kind of "Quality" ? Good, Fair, Excellent, Crappy... ?
How does a patient determine quality ?

"Reasonable" How do we determine that ?
What you deem reasonable, or what the dentist
needs to continue in business?

Reasonable is: "What are you willing to pay for a service?"
Reality is:  
"What does it cost to produce this service, and make a pay the
overhead and make a profit ?"

Consider for a moment automobile tires.
Do you buy the best longest lasting ?
Or do you sometimes buy what will get you through for now ?
There is some guy that has to do the work of removing the old
mounting the new, balancing, and testing.
Should he work for free ?

Overhead costs are: electric, water, phone, other bills, salaries,
buys the equipment, materials,

and... oh yeah... my family needs to eat, get clothes, and buy
gasoline once in a while too.

OK went a little overboard, but unless you have ever run
a small business you don't really understand the costs.
Steven Fawks - 21 Nov 2008 23:18 GMT
>quality dentist with reasonable fees.

Hmmm....what's reasonable?

 rent/mortgage
 utilities
 salaries
 lab
 supplies (bonding resin is $100/5ml e.g.)
 computers
 software
 equipment  (lasers are $50K and up, X-ray machines $100K+, chairs
 $5K+, autoclaves, handpieces, delivery systems, curing lights,
 cabinets,etc., etc.)
 malpractice insurance
 health insurance
 continuing education

The dental office can cost $200/*hour* just sitting there without even
counting paying for the equipment and supplies.
Fifty dollar fillings and 500 dollar crowns aren't realistic unless
someone wants to foot some of the overhead costs.

JMO,
Steve
Newbie@bix.nex - 23 Nov 2008 03:19 GMT
Yeah, that "reasonable" comment always punches my button too !

Funny they don't ask for 'reasonable' fees for heart surgery, knee
replacement, or parachutes.

What does a Maybach cost ? <look it up>
Is that "reasonable" ?

Funny, you didn't even mention salaries and taxes.

>>quality dentist with reasonable fees.
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>JMO,
>Steve
Newbie@bix.nex - 23 Nov 2008 03:21 GMT
Whoops, you did mention salaries, my bad.

>Yeah, that "reasonable" comment always punches my button too !
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>>JMO,
>>Steve
 
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