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Medical Forum / General / Dentistry / August 2008[Fwd: Trip Report - Algodones Dentistry
Bottom line: DO IT! *THE GOOD* The natives are friendly. Most speak English, and if they don't there's somebody nearby who does. The dentists are willing to work for 4 hours or more at a sitting and will shoot you sufficiently full of lidocaine that you're numb the entire time AND MORE. I had possibly 9 (I didn't count and don't have a detailed bill yet) crowns and three fillings. Total chair time 16 hours spread over 6 days. $2700. Husband has implants, crowns, a root canal, a bridge and a partial. BIL had crowns, root canals and partials. Their work required much less chair time than mine. Implant post insertion and attached teeth still to go in 6 months. They use bottled water for drinking/dental purposes, but the sinks use whatever comes out of the tap. Some website said Algodones used Yuma city water, but the office didn't confirm that. They had higher-tech equipment (digital x-rays) than the last local dentist I went to. If you need a specialist, (s)he will come to YOU, and possibly while you wait. Prescription stuff IS cheaper and the big pharmacy is only a few short blocks from the border. The pet pharmacy is a little further. August means no crowds. Free parking (when that gets filled up there's a huge $5/day lot). Short or no pedestrian line to cross the border back into the US. Don't even think of driving across the border, the parking probably won't be any closer to where you want to go and you risk whatever you risk by driving across the border -- not the least being a LOOOOOOONG wait even in August. We found an ordinary motel with AC, 2 double beds, TV (HBO too), microwave, refrigerator and a small pool for $40/night. RegaLodge on 4th Avenue. The Del Sol supermarket is a few blocks away. I know nothing about silver jewelry prices (they price by weight, apparently), but the stuff sold by the street vendors is attractive. I bought a ring for $20. Lots of opticians too. Even with my nasty prescription, I got my glasses in an hour. Cheapest: $20 for single-vision or bifocals plus $10 for tint and $10 for exam. My right lens was better than the one I'm wearing. The left one wasn't, so the guy made another left one in my old prescription. An acceptable outcome. If you don't like the frames this shop has, go to the next. There are hundreds. *THE BAD* Had I accepted the offer of a private tour of the Yuma Sewage Treatment Plant it would have been the highlight of the trip. There is nothing to do in Yuma that you can't do in the town you left because there was nothing to do there. Plan on bringing your entertainment with you unless you're an alcoholic. Air conditioning is essential. Check out the high and low temperatures and plan accordingly. Food quality was not a high priority ("soft" is prime), but avoid the Jack-in-the-Box breakfast bowl. If you go in a group, it's probably wise for everybody to go to a different dentist. There were only a few other patients while we were there, but the three of us did a lot of waiting while the two dentists worked on us. I'd recommend bringing some kind of cushion -- my tailbone is really painful. I don't know how you choose a dentist. My SIL used one recommended by someone she knew. I picked ours because they had the most professional-looking webpage, handled all the procedures we needed, and responded promptly and in excellent English to my emailed questions. My tongue is still sore so I can't really tell how the crowns feel, but they seem a little rough with some unexpected edges. If they don't disappear with time and usage I'll have the guy smooth them down when we go back in 6 months. *THE UGLY* Yuma. It's not actually ugly, it's just like every other town of similar size in the US that's REALLY warm.  SignatureCheers, Bev ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why should I be tarred with the epithet "loony" merely because I have a pet halibut? --Monty Python Not to be totally OT, but does anyone know what the mean % net profit of the average sole-proprietorship business is? For example, the local plumber, electrician, restauranteur, IT consultant, lawyer, neighborhood pharmacy (if there are any left). I do not mean the net % profit for a corporation, where in the instance of a dental business it is usually zero, as all the profit is supposed to be distributed as either income to the dentist or as end of FY dividends to the dentist. But what is the average % net for the average sole-proprietorship. The dental management gurus throw the number out as a 40% goal for the dental business environment in the USA, but most dentists seem to be happy with a 30 - 35% figure. Do other business people turn a similar level of profit? I was also wondering if the fictitious Dra. Luz Garcia-Ruiz in Matamoros is netting 40% or is she also living in a squalid state of poverty? What is the difference in the Cost Of Living, Cost of Labor, and taxation between Matamoros and Brownsville? I'm sure that she is not giving away her dentistry and that she does have overhead expenses such as rent/mortgage, electricity, salaries, supplies, taxes, lab fees, et cetera. Do Mexican dentists pay the same as US/Canadian dentists for Cerec machines, digital x-ray systems, operating microscopes, steri-centers, handpieces, computers, dental units/chairs/lights, and lasers, or do the corporations like Siemens, GE, Mid-West, and ADEC, make and sell them for much lower countries like Mexico/Costa Rica/India/China? If all these dental practices and pharmacias are privately owned businesses, then there has to be a profit somewhere. It is not state-supported/socialized dentistry. Anyone remember seeing 1980's dentistry from the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc nations? Remember N2, I hear it is still alive and well. > Not to be totally OT, but does anyone know what the mean % net profit of > the average sole-proprietorship business is? For example, the local [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > dentistry from the Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc nations? Remember > N2, I hear it is still alive and well. Seems to me a primarily service-oriented business has to show a greater relative profit relative to (for example) retailing. A dentist only has 2 hands. Steve >> Not to be totally OT, but does anyone know what the mean % net profit of >> the average sole-proprietorship business is? For example, the local >> plumber, electrician, restauranteur, IT consultant, lawyer, neighborhood >> pharmacy (if there are any left). > Seems to me a primarily service-oriented business has to show a greater > relative profit relative to (for example) retailing. A dentist only has > 2 hands. The Valenzuela office we used had 2 dentists (Valenzuela and one other), one accountant-receptionist, and 3 or 4 assistants. If they needed an endodontist or periodontist, they came in from outside. Root canals were $140. Porcelain+metal crowns were $200 (other offices quoted $120) and $280 if a post was required. The office was small, but clean, air-conditioned and cheerful. The chairs could have been a lot better, of course; we did a LOT of sitting. Maybe most people shop... SignatureCheers, Bev * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Do not try to solve all life's problems at once -- learn to dread each day as it comes. -- Donald Kaul > Not to be totally OT, but does anyone know what the mean % net profit of > the average sole-proprietorship business is? For example, the local > plumber, electrician, restauranteur, IT consultant, lawyer, neighborhood > pharmacy (if there are any left). FWIW, when my husband sold cross-assembler software by mail-order out of the house, the profit margin was something like 95% and we were still undercutting the less-sophisticated and less-useful competition who actually ADVERTISED. > If all these dental practices and pharmacias are privately owned > businesses, then there has to be a profit somewhere. The doc said there were ~150 dentists there, but he didn't know how many independent businesses there were. There were definitely a lot of multi-office practices, and many offered both dental and optical services. A few added in cosmetic surgery of various sorts; the one doctor we talked to carried out his liposuction procedures in the local hospital. The bargains were on Mexican-made (or maybe Chinese-made) stuff -- pharmaceuticals, glasses. Made-in-USA stuff like Pert shampoo and contact lenses were comparable to USA prices. One of the websites said that services were cheap because of low salary expectations, low overhead, low prices on whatever people had to buy, and no malpractice insurance. Based on my experience you can't get a doctor to testify against another doctor unless circumstances are so egregious that complicity might be suspected -- accordingly, the lack of malpractice insurance is irrelevant. Maybe it was an act for the tourists, but everybody we talked to was friendly and not insulted if you didn't want to buy their stuff. As a long-time yard-sale shopper I'm used to haggling, and neither of us was offended by the process -- unlike a lot of USAians who seem to be outraged that their cast-off goods don't command 90% of the original purchase price. Everything I observed was certainly as professional as anything I've had done in the USA, and in some cases moreso -- and I've had a LOT of dental work done in nearly 6 decades. Here's a handy list of some of the dental / optical / medical establishments in Algodones. We used Jose Valenzuela and my sister-in-law used Connie Ayala. http://www.losalgodones.com/dental_index.htm And, for those interested, here's a list of Tijuana plastic surgeons: http://www.sdro.com/tjplastic_surgeons.htm It may be noted that an eye surgeon in Bogota pioneered lasik surgery. Sometimes the first world isn't all it's cracked up to be. SignatureCheers, Bev * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Do not try to solve all life's problems at once -- learn to dread each day as it comes. -- Donald Kaul So you are saying your husband had a 95% profit? Not bad. > So you are saying your husband had a 95% profit? Not bad. The only costs were postage, diskettes (see, I SAID 'back in the old days'), envelopes and xeroxing. ~$5 on a $100 product -- or a $150 product or a $400 product. Oh yeah, we also had to buy invoice books. Very important :-) SignatureCheers, Bev =============================================== "If God had wanted us to use the metric system, Jesus would have had 10 apostles." - Jesse Helms What I'm asking is this: Did your husband charge $105.00 for a piece of software that cost him $100.00 or Did your husband charge $195.00 for a piece of software that cost him $100.00 One is a 5% profit, the other is a 95% profit. Please explain. > What I'm asking is this: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Please explain. He sold for $100 something that cost him $5. 95% of the selling price was profit. Included, however, was customer service and updates forever. He even taught some customers how to do assembly language programming over the phone. As long as they were paying for the phone call he'd help them solve their problems. Some USPS office somewhere sent him a multipage form to fill out explaining how he arrived at his price. He sent them back a letter saying he surveyed the competition and cut the lowest price in half and that if that price was too low he'd be happy to charge them whatever they wanted to pay, just let him know. They placed the order at the regular price. SignatureCheers, Bev ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I don't need instructions, I have a hammer." -- T.W. Wier Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. > Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case. I'm sorry, was a case in progress? Hey, I was an English major and I speak 3 languages. You want math, go elsewhere. SignatureCheers, Bev ---------------------------------------------- Linux: The penguin is mightier than the sword 2000% profit Signature/ Amatus / > >> What I'm asking is this: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > that price was too low he'd be happy to charge them whatever they wanted > to pay, just let him know. They placed the order at the regular price. > Based on my experience you can't get a doctor to testify against another > doctor unless circumstances are so egregious that complicity might be > suspected Not so. There are doctors (and I imagine dentists) who specialize in providing paid testimony for lawers. SignatureVaughn Nothing personal, but if you are posting through Google Groups I may not receive your message. Google refuses to control the flood of spam messages originating in their system, so on any given day I may or may not have Google blocked. Try a real NNTP server & news reader program and you will never go back. All you need is access to an NNTP server (AKA "news server") and a news reader program. You probably already have a news reader program in your computer (Hint: Outlook Express). Assuming that your Usenet needs are modest, use http://news.aioe.org/ for free and/or http://www.teranews.com/ for a one-time $3.95 setup fee. Will poofread for food. |
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