On Aug 2, 1:19 pm, New...@bix.nex wrote:

You are obviously a troll so no worries there, but perhaps some
answers are in order to further elucidate the situation.

First clue to what?  I am not a dentist and need to have these terms
explained.  When I asked for an explanation I was informed that only a
couple of surfaces needed touching up due to wear marks.  Had I been
told my entire bite would be altered there is no way I would have kept
the appointment.  The dentist realized this which I assume is why he
played it down during his explanation.

Wrong, I did not consent and sitting through an appointment does not
constitute consent if you are lied to about what the procedure
involves.  According to your logic the only way a dentist could do a
procedure without consent would be to break into your house and tie
you down, which is obviously ridiculous.

Doubtful yes, but unfortunately true as confirmed by two other
dentists.

Wrong again, the dentist who did the work acknowledged that this
collision can have very detrimental effects on the roots of these
teeth.

Don't care.

Sorry, did not.

Good one...

Fool.

I am sure the authorities will be happy to know about that.

Opinion.

Thanks for noting the typo, and again you are wrong.

No never heard of him.

Two dentists that have examined me since this procedure concurred that
it was unnecessary and that it resulted in an over-equilibration of
the top and bottom molars.

Strictly speaking anyone can call themselves a TMJ specialist but what
is your point?  Never mind, I know what it is...

Thanks for your insight, troll.

I suggest that a_riot is a troll.

It called me one with very little provocation.

On Aug 2, 8:23 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

Thanks for your response Steve.  I realize this situation may make me
look a little daft to put myself in this position but at some point
you have to trust that what the dentist tells you is the truth
otherwise you would never let anyone work on you.

I was in the chair for about 20-30 minutes, not all of which was
sanding of course, as he spent time putting paper between my molars
and asking me to clench my teeth.  There was no pain or sensation at
all and no anesthetic was used.  My teeth are not particularly
sensitive so I couldn't even feel the grinding, I could just see and
smell the enamel flying out of my mouth but had no way to determine
how much was being removed (note to self, always demand a mirror to
watch the entire procedure).  I have now been examined by two other
dentists, one that says he specializes in occlusion and a TMJ
specialist and both are rather astounded that a dentist would go in
and remove a lot of cusp material in an asymptomatic patient with no
preparation such as casts, scans, measurements or even a simple wax
imprint of my bite, in preparation to change some fillings.  Seems
like a 'scorched earth' dental policy, far beyond what was
necessary.

From my understanding now, the theory that the bite should conform to
the "canine rise" has been out of date for a number of years, and
having this bite thrust upon me when I had no desire to change my bite
seems like battery to me.  The TMJ dentist speculated that it looks as
though he equilibrated my teeth while I was reclining in the dentist
chair so that when he looked at my bite during the procedure, my jaw
was too far back due to being in a reclined position, so he
accidentally gave me this weird bite where my lower jaw has to be all
the way back for my anterior teeth to not crash.  When I sneeze, my
lower anterior teeth just smash into the upper anterior teeth with a
lot of force causing pain.  There are so many different problems now,
that I am not sure if he could have done a worse job on purpose.
Since I can't feel the molars touch now, it feels like I have had them
all extracted.  I can't chew my food correctly either since most of
the chewing has to be done by the anterior teeth but they are now
crashing.  This must be what a cat feels like after its been declawed.

As far as consent is concerned, I told him that I never have had any
TMJ symptoms during the initial consult and that I like my bite even
if it doesn't conform to some theoretical dental ideal.  He then
justified the procedure stating that he needed to remove a very minor
amount of enamel so that the restorations wouldn't get damaged once
they were in.  "You don't want to have to pay for restorations all
over again in a couple years do you?"  he asked.  Any patient hearing
this would not suspect that this procedure would result in a complete
anatomical change in my bite and jaw geometry.  I wasn't informed of
any risk (TMJ symptoms), alternative procedures (nightguard, splints
etc), or referred to a specialist (prosthodontist).

In fact while he was doing the procedure, he sensed I was somewhat
worried since I joked about trying to level a table with a saw, and
that we all know how that ends.  He reassured me by telling me some
stupid story about a steamboat engine repairman who charged $1000 to
repair the engine.  When he showed up he just hit the engine with a
hammer in a certain place which fixed it.  The owner complained about
the high fee for such a simple repair, to which he replied that yes
its easy to fix but you have to know exactly where to hit it.  I
suspect this analogy was meant to assure me that the $500 fee for 20
minutes of work was justified because of his extensive knowledge about
where and how much to remove.  When I went back to his office a week
later, I challenged him and asked him what training he had in this
procedure.  He just said "35 years experience".  I pressed him and
asked if he had any training at an accredited dental institution to
which he just said "yes, a lot of training".  It seemed like a dodge
to me, so I am guessing his "training" consisted of trial and error on
many patients over the years.

When I think back to other dental work that I have had which only
consisted of mercury fillings and one crown to replace an old mercury
filling, my occlusion must have been slightly altered every time
something was done, but I actually never noticed as I think my mouth/
jaw has been pretty adaptable to small changes.  That's what makes me
think he did a real hatchet job since in the past I have never had a
problem with some minor occlusal adjustment.  I now feel like I have
someone else's mouth like I had submitted to some strange plastic
surgery where they did a jaw transplant.

This cannot be what a successful complete occlusal adjustment feels
like.
Your perspective is appreciated.

I don't know.  I read the OP and wonder.

The description of the change is not consistent with an equilibration.  It
is consistent with joint inflammation pushing the posterior teeth apart, or
spasms of certain muscle groups resulting in the mandible being shifted
forward.

Equilibration does flatten back teeth.  No arguing there.  However, in the
absence of full orthodontics, it is "sometimes" needed.  Personally, I never
to an equilibration without placing the patient in an NTI first.

To have a malpractice case, the OP would need to prove that the jaw was
different before the procedure (photos or models).

A poorly done equilibration will not create pain and symptoms of "TMD"
without some underlying muscle spasm.  That muscle spasm is not initiated by
the equilibration.  Odds are, the extra time of having the mouth open was
just the "straw that broke the camel's back".  The next small filling, large
series of yawns, eating a jaw breaker, providing certain types of "personal
favors", etc., would probably have caused the same symptoms.

AC

On Aug 2, 11:23 pm, Steven Bornfeld <dentaltwinm...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

By the way , I am not a lawyer either, but I gather much of legal
theory hinges on what a reasonable person would
do. For example , would a reasonable person have agreed to the
procedure, had they  known what they
consented too. Would a reasonable dentist have done this procedure??
This seems to
indicate that the law is designed to fair and "reasonable"

On Aug 5, 5:59 pm, oralhea...@comcast.net wrote:

With or without their consent and understanding?

It only helps prevent these things?  Doesn't seem worth messing with
an asymptomatic sophisticated biomechanical system for that.  Plus, it
seems like it has as good a chance at making things worse.

Well I would be just as angry if my orthopedist made a modification to
my anatomy without my permission.

What IS taught in dental school these days?  I haven't required a lot
of dental visits in the past decade or so but the industry seems to
have radically changed over the past number of years.

Because you are an idiot.

Aha ! There he goes again.

Nut-case