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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / October 2007

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Viral Infections May Be Linked To Obesity

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MarilynMann - 24 Oct 2007 18:41 GMT
Viral Infections May Be Linked To Obesity

ScienceDaily (Oct. 24, 2007) - Experts don't dispute the important
role that diet and activity play in maintaining a healthy weight. But
can poor eating habits and a less active lifestyle fully explain the
prevalence of obesity in the United States today? That question has
led some researchers to ask whether there might be other causes for
this serious problem.

 Researcher Richard Atkinson, M.D., asserts that there is a growing
body of evidence demonstrating that viruses may play a role in causing
obesity in humans.

"The cause of obesity is not a secret -- if you consume more calories
than you burn in daily activity, you gain weight. What is interesting
is that much of the obesity epidemic cannot be explained just by
Americans eating more and exercising less. There are other factors at
play, and viruses causing obesity may be one of them," say Dr.
Atkinson.

Dr. Atkinson, director of Obetech Obesity Research Center in Richmond,
Va., reviewed multiple published articles that demonstrate a
connection between viral infections and obesity. His article in Mayo
Clinic Proceedings* discusses five animal viruses and three human
viruses that have been shown to cause obesity in laboratory studies.

According to Dr. Atkinson, several studies offer ample evidence that
animals infected with certain human viruses experience excess weight
gain and fat storage. When researchers infected animal subjects with a
human virus known as Human Ad-36, they reported measurable increases
in the infected animals' body fat and the visceral fat that surrounds
the organs deep within the belly. In addition, studies also
demonstrated that infection with Ad-36 and the resulting weight gain
could be transmitted from infected animals to uninfected animals.

Information on virus-induced obesity in human subjects is much more
limited. Citing his own study conducted in 2005, Dr. Atkinson also
showed a connection between obesity and exposure to the Ad-36 virus in
humans. Dr. Atkinson's study screened for antibodies to Ad-36 (a sign
of exposure to this virus) in 502 people of varying body weights, both
obese and non-obese, from three cities in the United States. Ad-36
antibodies were found in 30 percent of obese individuals and 11
percent of lean individuals. Study results also showed highly
significant differences in body mass index (BMI) between antibody-
positive and antibody-negative individuals.

Dr. Atkinson also highlighted a study that looked at 89 sets of
American adult twins and screened them for Ad-36. Because twins tend
to be similar in many characteristics, including body weight, the
researchers looked at twin pairs where one twin tested positively for
Ad-36 and the other did not.

"Antibody-positive twins were slightly, but significantly, heavier and
fatter than their antibody negative co-twins," says Dr. Atkinson. "The
infected twins had a higher BMI and a greater percent of body fat than
the uninfected co-twins."

In the mid-1970s, a virus called SMAM-1 was believed responsible for
an increased death rate among commercially raised chickens in India.
SMAM-1 is associated with decreased immune function and an increased
accumulation of body fat in infected chickens. Dr. Atkinson reports
that one study tested 52 obese humans for antibodies to SMAM-1. About
20 percent had SMAM-1 antibodies, indicating exposure to this virus.
The study participants who had these antibodies were heavier and had a
higher body mass index compared with the antibody-negative group.

Dr. Atkinson's article also explores what current research has to say
about the possible mechanisms underlying virus-induced obesity. Some
research suggests that viral infections have a direct effect on
adipocytes, cells that manufacture and store fat, turning on the
enzymes of fat accumulation and recruitment of new adipocytes.

What's the next step for this research? According to Dr. Atkinson,
"the body of evidence linking adenoviruses to obesity in humans is now
sufficient to think about the next step. Ideally, we could prevent
infection and virus-induced obesity with a vaccine for the obesity
viruses. Development of a human vaccine will take several years."

*This work is published in the October issue of Mayo Clinic
Proceedings.

Adapted from materials provided by Mayo Clinic.

Mayo Clin Proc. 2007;82:1192-1198 © 2007 Mayo Foundation for Medical
Education and Research

REVIEW
Viruses as an Etiology of Obesity
RICHARD L. ATKINSON, MD

Individual reprints of this article are not available. Address
correspondence to Richard L. Atkinson, MD, Director, Obetech Obesity
Research Center, 800 E Leigh St, Suite 50, Richmond, VA 23219
(ratkinson2@vcu.edu).

Obesity is a serious chronic disease that has numerous etiologies. The
prevalence of obesity has increased dramatically since about 1980 in
the United States and worldwide in both developed and developing
countries. This rapid spread is compatible with an infectious origin.
This review discusses the 5 animal viruses and 3 human viruses that
have been shown to cause obesity and examines the evidence to date for
virus-induced obesity. The obesogenic animal viruses include canine
distemper virus, Rous-associated virus type 7, Borna disease virus,
scrapie agent, and SMAM-1. The first 4 viruses attack the central
nervous system to produce obesity. SMAM-1, an avian adenovirus from
India, acts directly on adipocytes and is the only animal virus that
is associated with human obesity. The 3 human adenoviruses, adenovirus
(Ad) 36, Ad-37, and Ad-5, that are associated with obesity also affect
adipocytes directly. These viruses stimulate enzymes and transcription
factors that cause accumulation of triglycerides and differentiation
of preadipocytes into mature adipocytes. Ad-5 and Ad-37 have been
shown to cause obesity in animals. Ad-36 has been studied the most and
is the only human adenovirus to date that has been linked with human
obesity. Ad-36 causes obesity in chickens, mice, rats, and monkeys and
was present in 30% of obese humans and 11% of nonobese humans. In
twins discordant for infection with Ad-36, the infected twins were
heavier and fatter than their cotwins. The growing body of evidence
demonstrating that viruses produce human obesity supports the concept
that at least some of the worldwide epidemic of obesity in the past 25
years is due to viral infections.

Mayo Clin Proc. 2007;82(10):1192-1198
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Oct 2007 19:09 GMT
If there were a virus causing obesity, we would have given away the
million dollars months ago:

http://TruthRUS.org/Guarantee

"Eat right and exercise more" is a false mantra for weight loss...

... a lie.

The true mantra for weight loss is...

... "eat less."

Truth is simple.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

> Viral Infections May Be Linked To Obesity
>
[quoted text clipped - 118 lines]
>
> Mayo Clin Proc. 2007;82(10):1192-1198
truth@is-best.com - 24 Oct 2007 20:25 GMT
Our armchair speculator opines:

"If there were a virus causing obesity, we would have given away the
million dollars months ago:"

But the real scientists don't know about what is yet to be established
to exist and more important do not care in the least about it.  Many
scientists get mail on a regular basis from peddlers of trash science
and file it in the round file instantly.

There is a flaw of logic in the above claim about a virus as cause.
Such lateral lurches of cognitive function are quite revealing.

God bless.
cteasd5941@gmail.com - 25 Oct 2007 00:12 GMT
> There is a flaw of logic in the above claim about a virus as cause.<<<<<<

There is some truth in it adenovirus 36 has been associated with
obesity. Even where twins are concerned when one is fatter than the
other, the obese twin has been found to have antibodies. Other
adenoviruses are being experimented on with some similar findings.
The problem is that it is not ethical to inoculate humans with the
virus to prove the point, but in chickens who have been given the
virus, they can eat the same but lay down more body fat.

There is of course medical conditions in humans which have the same
effect i.e. hypothyroidism.

Knowing the cause can only lead to a vaccine sometime in the future,
it will do nothing to help those who have already had the infection.
Until then there is only diet and exercise anyway.

In Christ's love
Carol T

> God bless.
Cary Kittrell - 24 Oct 2007 20:42 GMT
> If there were a virus causing obesity, we would have given away the
> million dollars months ago:

Only if this virus can violate the First Law of Thermodynamics.

In which case it will be worth much, much more than a measly million.

-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Oct 2007 21:54 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Only if this virus can violate the First Law of Thermodynamics.

That would be the expectation for anything that causes obesity without
folks eating more, which is what is being proposed.

> In which case it will be worth much, much more than a measly million.

The million dollars would not be for the virus but for the first obese
person that fails to achieve sustained weight loss using the 2PD-OMER
Approach.

Truth is simple.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Cary Kittrell - 24 Oct 2007 22:43 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> That would be the expectation for anything that causes obesity without
> folks eating more, which is what is being proposed.

No, it isn't.  Even when calories-in is fixed, coth calories-out and
unused-out will depend on a number of other parameters, both
behavioral and physiological.

> > In which case it will be worth much, much more than a measly million.
>
> The million dollars would not be for the virus but for the first obese
> person that fails to achieve sustained weight loss using the 2PD-OMER
> Approach.

Oh, I don't doubt that a bit.  It would be even more certain on
one ounce a day.  Or none.

-- cary
JESUS WAS A COCKSUCKER! - 25 Oct 2007 03:18 GMT
>> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> Oh, I don't doubt that a bit.  It would be even more certain on
> one ounce a day.  Or none.

we find a fat very short midget-lets see what happens then.......
> -- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Oct 2007 11:25 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote::
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> unused-out will depend on a number of other parameters, both
> behavioral and physiological.

Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
not directly measurable without destroying the food.

> > > In which case it will be worth much, much more than a measly million.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Oh, I don't doubt that a bit.  It would be even more certain on
> one ounce a day.  Or none.

You just contradicted yourself.

This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

May you wisely choose to surrender your eternally defeated self by
publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
truth@is-best.com - 26 Oct 2007 14:47 GMT
Our armchair prize holder opines:

> The million dollars would not be for the virus but for the first obese
> person that fails to achieve sustained weight loss using the 2PD-OMER
> Approach.

It was already reported in this newsgroup.  Will you now be doing a
search of archives so the winner can recieve the prize?

God bless.
Cary Kittrell - 26 Oct 2007 18:16 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote::
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
> not directly measurable without destroying the food.

So you think that three grams of sucrose combusted in a bomb calorimeter
has a different enthalpy of formation than three grams of sucrose
ingested?

-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Oct 2007 01:44 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote::
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> has a different enthalpy of formation than three grams of sucrose
> ingested?

Non sequitur.

This discussion is about food and not seasoning.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
jeeeezuzchrust@hotmail.com - 27 Oct 2007 02:50 GMT
On Oct 26, 8:44 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:

> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote::
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> This discussion is about food and not seasoning.

ROFL! Slippery little sucker, isn't he Cary? I've seen toddlers wiggle
less than he does. I wonder if he's ever held two conflicting opinions
at the same time.. <g>

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Oct 2007 11:37 GMT
convicted neighbor Panama Floyd wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> ROFL!

"Written laughter is silent despair." -- Holy Spirit.

Amen.

This simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict
you:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts

May you wisely choose to surrender by publicly declaring with your
mouth that "Jesus is LORD:"

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Archie Leach - 29 Oct 2007 01:47 GMT
>convicted neighbor Panama Floyd wrote:
[...]
>> ROFL!
>
>"Written laughter is silent despair." -- Holy Spirit.
>
>Amen.

Out of curiosity, I did a google web search on "Written laughter" and
"silent despair".

http://www.google.com/search?as_q=%22silent+despair%22&hl=en&num=100&btnG=Google
+Search&as_epq=Written+laughter&as_oq=&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=al
l&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images


47 results, ALL leading to archived posts of Dr. Ch'ung's showing up
on various web based "forums".

It would thus appear that the ONLY person in the internet who truly
believes that Written Laughter indeed is Silent Despair, or that the
Holy Spirit could possibly concur with that diagnosis, is Andrew
Ch'ung himself.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MU - 29 Oct 2007 06:33 GMT
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PLONK
ªºª rrock - 29 Oct 2007 09:02 GMT
>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> PLONK

Pffffffffft, typical Western-Christian response.

Signature

Гордый Спонсор Ангела Смерти и ее Легионов Сестер
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.angels/msg/2f5df80dfa199b93
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=8245476550623867087

Archie Leach - 29 Oct 2007 09:30 GMT
>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>PLONK

Quiet, s0ck.
JESUS WAS A COCKSUCKER! - 29 Oct 2007 15:32 GMT
>>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>yep-he is a chunk sock.
chunkers has alot of those-and they all fail.
Art Deco - 31 Oct 2007 01:46 GMT
>>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>PLONK
>
>Quiet, s0ck.
Quiet, s0ck.

Signature

Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco
Official "Usenet psychopath and born-again LLPOF minion",
 as designated by Brad Guth
COOSN-266-06-39716

Archie Leach - 31 Oct 2007 09:39 GMT
>>>>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>PLONK
>>
>>Quiet, s0ck.
>Quiet, s0ck.
Quiet, s0ck.
Cary Kittrell - 29 Oct 2007 20:54 GMT
> On Oct 26, 8:44 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> less than he does. I wonder if he's ever held two conflicting opinions
> at the same time.. <g>

But hey -- at least we've now learned that sugar, which can comprise
tens of percents of the dry weight of many foods, from pastries to any
number of commercially prepared foods -- and which, often enough,
yields the larger part of the caloric content -- is actually
merely "seasoning".

Presumably, as it is just "seasoning", we can ignore it in
any discussion of nutrition.

-- cary
Don Kirkman - 26 Oct 2007 18:18 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <1193394339.386388.41010@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:

>Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
>not directly measurable without destroying the food.

And why is it necessary to "directly" measure calories when the
literature (not to mention product labels) is full of charts and sources
of estimated calorie figures fully adequate for ordinary real life use?
Let the food be destroyed in the digestive tract, not in a laboratory.
Your repeated reference to a bomb calorimeter is pedantic at best, and a
viable inference is that it is an attempt to mislead.
Signature

Don Kirkman

Cary Kittrell - 26 Oct 2007 19:05 GMT
> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
> article <1193394339.386388.41010@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Your repeated reference to a bomb calorimeter is pedantic at best, and a
> viable inference is that it is an attempt to mislead.

And octane ratings can tell Dr. Chung nothing about the gas he pumps
into his car, for the same reasons.

-- cary
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Oct 2007 11:41 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> >Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
> >not directly measurable without destroying the food.
>
> And why is it necessary to "directly" measure calories...

The same reason why it is necessary to directly measure speed with a
speedometer in order to prevent overspeeding.

Truth is simple.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Don Kirkman - 27 Oct 2007 19:47 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <1193481692.604918.91310@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>:

>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>> >Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
>> >not directly measurable without destroying the food.

>> And why is it necessary to "directly" measure calories...

>The same reason why it is necessary to directly measure speed with a
>speedometer in order to prevent overspeeding.

So you can't tell the difference between 30mph and 50mpg without a
speedometer?  This isn't rocket science, you know.  If you don't
understand, refer back to my comments  about lab standards (bomb
calorimeters) and real life practical measurements (calorie charts).

It seems a little ridiculous for you to insist on bomb calorimeter
measurements as the only acceptable standard for a practical measure of
dietary calories while you maintain that it's the sheer weight of the
food, not the calorie content, that you've discovered to be the magic
approach (which all other diet researchers have overlooked).
Signature

Don Kirkman

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Oct 2007 20:45 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> So you can't tell the difference between 30mph and 50mpg without a
> speedometer?

You probably mean 50 mph rather than 50 mpg.

The person who does not pay any attention to his/her speedometer is
much more likely to be ticketed for overspeeding than the person who
keeps an eye on his/her speedometer.

Truth is simple.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Don Kirkman - 28 Oct 2007 08:02 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <1193514335.280212.223580@v3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:

>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly:
>> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>> >> >Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
>> >> >not directly measurable without destroying the food.

>> >> And why is it necessary to "directly" measure calories...

>> >The same reason why it is necessary to directly measure speed with a
>> >speedometer in order to prevent overspeeding.

>> So you can't tell the difference between 30mph and 50mpg without a
>> speedometer?

>You probably mean 50 mph rather than 50 mpg.

Yes, but you understood it anyway, didn't you?

>The person who does not pay any attention to his/her speedometer is
>much more likely to be ticketed for overspeeding than the person who
>keeps an eye on his/her speedometer.

The person who keeps his eye on his speedometer may have an accident
whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
surrounding traffic, and be watching for problems in the roadway.  You
can't cite any evidence for your assumption about being ticketed unless
you watch the speedometer.

You forgot to respond to this part:

>It seems a little ridiculous for you to insist on bomb calorimeter
>measurements as the only acceptable standard for a practical measure of
>dietary calories while you maintain that it's the sheer weight of the
>food, not the calorie content, that you've discovered to be the magic
>approach (which all other diet researchers have overlooked).
Signature

Don Kirkman

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 28 Oct 2007 08:12 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Yes, but you understood it anyway, didn't you?

It remains possible that you had meant 50 mpg, my understanding aside.

> >The person who does not pay any attention to his/her speedometer is
> >much more likely to be ticketed for overspeeding than the person who
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
> surrounding traffic, and be watching for problems in the roadway.

Actually, someone who does not devote part of his/her peripheral
vision to the speedometer (ie does not keep an eye on his/her
speedometer) is someone who will be a poor judge of his/her own speed.

Truth is simple.

Be hungry...  be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Don Kirkman - 28 Oct 2007 18:46 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <1193555570.055866.222710@z9g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:

>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly:
>> >> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>> >> >> >Calories are meaningless units of measure for food because they are
>> >> >> >not directly measurable without destroying the food.

>> >> >> And why is it necessary to "directly" measure calories...

>> >> >The same reason why it is necessary to directly measure speed with a
>> >> >speedometer in order to prevent overspeeding.

>> >> So you can't tell the difference between 30mph and 50mpg without a
>> >> speedometer?

>> >You probably mean 50 mph rather than 50 mpg.

>> Yes, but you understood it anyway, didn't you?

>It remains possible that you had meant 50 mpg, my understanding aside.

No, it does not remain possible because my intended meaning precluded
that possibility.

>> >The person who does not pay any attention to his/her speedometer is
>> >much more likely to be ticketed for overspeeding than the person who
>> >keeps an eye on his/her speedometer.

>> The person who keeps his eye on his speedometer may have an accident
>> whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
>> surrounding traffic, and be watching for problems in the roadway.

>Actually, someone who does not devote part of his/her peripheral
>vision to the speedometer (ie does not keep an eye on his/her
>speedometer) is someone who will be a poor judge of his/her own speed.

>Truth is simple.

Yes, truth is simple; you wrote "keeps an eye on," not "devote part of .
. . peripheral vision to the speedometer."
Signature

Don Kirkman

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 29 Oct 2007 01:34 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> No, it does not remain possible because my intended meaning precluded
> that possibility.

You have a history of not being truthful and there has been no
evidence that you have had a change of heart as far as the truth is
concerned.

> >> >The person who does not pay any attention to his/her speedometer is
> >> >much more likely to be ticketed for overspeeding than the person who
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Yes, truth is simple;

Glad you agree.

> you wrote "keeps an eye on," not "devote part of .
> . . peripheral vision to the speedometer."

They are synonymous for two-eyed folks :-)

Truth remains simple.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Don Kirkman - 29 Oct 2007 08:08 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in
article <1193618084.378998.311620@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com>:

>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>> >> >You probably mean 50 mph rather than 50 mpg.

>> >> Yes, but you understood it anyway, didn't you?

>> >It remains possible that you had meant 50 mpg, my understanding aside.

>> No, it does not remain possible because my intended meaning precluded
>> that possibility.

>You have a history of not being truthful and there has been no
>evidence that you have had a change of heart as far as the truth is
>concerned.

You haven't responded to what I wrote; my intention precludes the
possibility you wish existed.

Now, provide some evidence that I have a history of not being truthful
or retract the statement.
Signature

Don Kirkman

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 29 Oct 2007 09:09 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> You haven't responded to what I wrote; my intention precludes the
> possibility you wish existed.

Actually, I have responded to what you wrote and the response is as
above and below:

"You have a history of not being truthful and there has been no
evidence that you have had a change of heart as far as the truth is
concerned."

> Now, provide some evidence that I have a history of not being truthful
> or retract the statement.

The above serves well as evidence.

Here would be some more:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d997a6dc98d08c36?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4dfbdbe9ba96e9dc?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/02997ef006f22ffa?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/04f32ec007ca7cfc?

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/0e32fb9db418fdd2?

Bottom line:

You remain pathologically untruthful.

For this reason, you remind me of our dearly departed Bob (this one)
Pastorio:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

Bob was also pathologically untruthful:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/libel.asp

It was about this time of year in 2006 that Bob was stricken with
cancer of unknown origin that led to his inauspicious death on Fool's
day in 2007.

It is possible that you will soon be similarly stricken and so the
Holy Spirit guides me to prepare an Internet tomb for you just as HE
has recently guided me to do the same for Ferd and David Silverman:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/DonKirkman

May you wisely choose to be spared by receiving eternal life through
surrendering upon publicly declaring with your mouth that "Jesus is
LORD:"

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/TheWay

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Mark T - 29 Oct 2007 09:14 GMT
> Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

... which is Yawheh not the human Jesus of Nazareth.

Signature

Then God spoke all these words.  He said: 'I am Yahweh your God who brought
you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. You shall have NO
GODS (INCLUDING JESUS) EXCEPT ME.'  - Exodus 20: 1-2

--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/

FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.

My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall

MU - 29 Oct 2007 05:04 GMT
> > The person who keeps his eye on his speedometer may have an accident
> > whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> vision to the speedometer (ie does not keep an eye on his/her
> speedometer) is someone who will be a poor judge of his/her own speed.

Racing anyone? As a racing advocate, SCCA licensed, competing in the
Historics internationally, avid F1 fan, where racing could care less about
speeding tickets lol, every car has speed indicating functions. RPMs, etc
etc.

Why? Judging speed by vision alone is only a oart of the best data
solution.
JESUS WAS A COCKSUCKER! - 29 Oct 2007 15:35 GMT
>> > The person who keeps his eye on his speedometer may have an accident
>> > whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Why? Judging speed by vision alone is only a oart of the best data
> solution.

yep-your a dumbfuck.
race fans are morons in the highest order.
redneck moron.
you probably think pro wrestling is real too.
retard.
Don Kirkman - 29 Oct 2007 19:56 GMT
It seems to me I heard somewhere that MU wrote in article
<jrd4m6ikwn81.zotlguoypxps.dlg@40tude.net>:

>> > The person who keeps his eye on his speedometer may have an accident
>> > whereas someone watching the road can judge his own speed, that of
>> > surrounding traffic, and be watching for problems in the roadway.

>> Actually, someone who does not devote part of his/her peripheral
>> vision to the speedometer (ie does not keep an eye on his/her
>> speedometer) is someone who will be a poor judge of his/her own speed.

>Racing anyone? As a racing advocate, SCCA licensed, competing in the
>Historics internationally, avid F1 fan, where racing could care less about
>speeding tickets lol, every car has speed indicating functions. RPMs, etc
>etc.

Dr. Chung's chosen topic was ordinary traffic driving, especially how to
avoid tickets for speeding.  Nothing to do with specialized things like
race cars (for which RPMs are not directly convertible to MPH because of
gear ratios and tire/wheel size including tire pressure variations).
Race drivers appear to use their real speedometers, not rely on RPM as a
surrogate.

What wisdom do you have about the original issue?
Signature

Don Kirkman

MU - 25 Oct 2007 05:43 GMT
> "Eat right and exercise more" is a false mantra for weight loss...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> ... "eat less."

As a strength/power trainer, it would be in my best financial interests to
disagree.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Oct 2007 07:49 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> As a strength/power trainer, it would be in my best financial interests to
> disagree.

Until you discover that your clients perfom better when they eat less,
down to the optimal amount to become healthier (hungrier) thereby
losing the harmful VAT that is the source of poisonous adipocytokines
which cause muscle atrophy.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
MU - 26 Oct 2007 08:35 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Andrew <><

To a one. Even the ones that were  taught (offensive linemen) that weight
was great, when we got their weight inline with their physique, they were
better performers.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Oct 2007 18:48 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> was great, when we got their weight inline with their physique, they were
> better performers.

Yes.

An athlete having harmful VAT is like a speedboat with its anchor
down.

May GOD bless you in HIS mighty way making you healthier (hungrier)
than ever:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/PressRelease

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
MU - 27 Oct 2007 10:03 GMT
> > > > As a strength/power trainer, it would be in my best financial interests
> > to
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> An athlete having harmful VAT is like a speedboat with its anchor
> down.

Professional athletes live most of their lives outside of their sport.
Unhealthy mass/overfat may buy them a short term rise in income.

Or not.

VAT compromises the neutral, vertical line of balance; overfat athletes who
fall, as they often do, on each other create the exactly incorrect
application of f=ma that is desired in performance blocking, for instance.

Overfat athletes who train, let's say the bench press, have a compromised
range of bar movement. Good, most of the time not.

Point? Overfat, in the end all, ain't worth it.
 
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