Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / July 2007
2nd echocardiogram results here.... help.
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PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 17:30 GMT aortic root: 2.2 left atrium: 2.1 right ventrical: (nothing listed?) left ventricular diastole: 3.8 LV systole: 2.2 interventricular septum: .81 LV posterior wall: .77 aortic cusp separation: 1.4
LA volumes:
BSA: 1.5 LA Vol: 12 LA Index: 8
Mitral regurgitation:
VC PISA Radius ERO RV RF
Aortic Regurgitation: VC PISA radius ERO RV RF
This echo was done itilizing techniques of color flow and spectral analysis. Interrogations were done in the inflow and outflow tracts of both the left and right heart chambers. This study demonstrated the following:
1. Normal cardiac chamber sizes are present. 2. The valvular structures and chambers appear to be anatomically normal. 3. Left ventricular ejection fraction is 60-65% with normal regional wall motion. 4. Normal right ventricular function is present. 5. Moderator band can be seen in the right ventrical which is a normal finding. 6. Trace tricuspid insufficiency. 7. Pulomonary artery systolic pressure is estimated at 27 mmHg by doppler.
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I dont understand what these volumes mean.. the BSA, PISA, etc stuff... and what the reference values for the aortic root, left atrium, etc are.
As for the pulmonary pressure... is that normal? or too high?!?!
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 17:59 GMT also, i was very nervous when i had the test done and my pulse rate was up. could this had made the pulmonary pressures higher?
i had been running around a bit before the test, back and forth from some places and as we know, whenever i stand up or walk around a bit, my pulse goes higher than normal and stays that way for a while even after rest.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Jul 2007 18:01 GMT > aortic root: 2.2 normal.
> left atrium: 2.1 normal.
> right ventrical: (nothing listed?) Then presumed normal.
> left ventricular diastole: 3.8 normal.
> LV systole: 2.2 normal.
> interventricular septum: .81 normal.
> LV posterior wall: .77 normal.
> aortic cusp separation: 1.4 normal.
> LA volumes: > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > 7. Pulomonary artery systolic pressure is estimated at 27 mmHg by > doppler. This would be reassuringly normal.
> -------------- > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > As for the pulmonary pressure... is that normal? or too high?!?! Your echocardiogram is reportedly completely normal.
May you recognize this to be the blessing from GOD that it is.
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 18:08 GMT yeah, but isnt 27 mmhg high for a systolic pulmonary artery pressure? i have read that the normal should be anywhere between 14 and 25.. anything higher than 25 is considered PH. or anything higher than 30 at exercise, though... in a sense i was nervous.. so... it could have been higher. when im nervous my whole entire body goes into this nutty state.
the doctor who looked over the echo is the same doctor that did my mom's cath's and other things, so... i know he knows what hes doing.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Jul 2007 18:23 GMT > yeah, but isnt 27 mmhg high for a systolic pulmonary artery pressure? Not abnormally high but one might be pressed to write that it may be high normal.
> i have read that the normal should be anywhere between 14 and 25.. > anything higher than 25 is considered PH. or anything higher than 30 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the doctor who looked over the echo is the same doctor that did my > mom's cath's and other things, so... i know he knows what hes doing. Then you should be reassured that he does not interpret your echocardiogram to be abnormal.
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PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 18:29 GMT > > yeah, but isnt 27 mmhg high for a systolic pulmonary artery pressure? > > Not abnormally high but one might be pressed to write that it may be > high normal. i remember though, when they did my aunt's echo's, it showed mildly high pressures and then when she had a cath done it was read as somewhere in the 70s! and ive read numerous stories like this on the net, too.
so, dont knw what to think, given i have the tricuspid regurgitation.
as for the right atrium and all, does it look like there may be some issue there? 2.1 is a normal size for the atrium?
do you know of a site i could use for reference values?
> > the doctor who looked over the echo is the same doctor that did my > > mom's cath's and other things, so... i know he knows what hes doing. > > Then you should be reassured that he does not interpret your > echocardiogram to be abnormal. yeah, but it also makes me aware that he rarely seems to make mistakes with these and really has an eye for these things and.. when i saw that PA pressure, i freaked out.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Jul 2007 19:19 GMT > > > yeah, but isnt 27 mmhg high for a systolic pulmonary artery pressure? > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > as for the right atrium and all, does it look like there may be some > issue there? 2.1 is a normal size for the atrium? Yes.
> do you know of a site i could use for reference values? It should be on your copy of the report that was given to you.
> > > the doctor who looked over the echo is the same doctor that did my > > > mom's cath's and other things, so... i know he knows what hes doing. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > with these and really has an eye for these things and.. when i saw > that PA pressure, i freaked out. There no need to be upset about a PASP of 27 mmHg.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
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Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 19:27 GMT > > as for the right atrium and all, does it look like there may be some > > issue there? 2.1 is a normal size for the atrium? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It should be on your copy of the report that was given to you. Nope, they didnt have any reference values on this second one. this one's in a slightly different formula from that other echo i had done in december.. on this latest one they have the .77 an .81, etc... cm's.
> There no need to be upset about a PASP of 27 mmHg. well, whats the actual reference value for normal pulm. systolic pressure? they didnt include this either.
id have thought they would have included what the pressures in the right atrium were as well? or is that how they obtained this? im assuming on this one they could actually see my pulmonary artery unlike that last one... ?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Jul 2007 19:54 GMT > > > as for the right atrium and all, does it look like there may be some > > > issue there? 2.1 is a normal size for the atrium? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in december.. on this latest one they have the .77 an .81, etc... > cm's. Simply multiply by 10 and you will have mm.
References values do vary slightly from one echo lab to another so that you would be wise to get those values from the cardiologist who interpreted your echocardiogram.
> > There no need to be upset about a PASP of 27 mmHg. > > well, whats the actual reference value for normal pulm. systolic > pressure? > they didnt include this either. See above.
> id have thought they would have included what the pressures in the > right atrium were as well? This would be done by inspecting your neck veins during the study.
> or is that how they obtained this? im > assuming on this one they could actually see my pulmonary artery > unlike that last one... ? That would be a question for the cardiologist who reviewed the taping of your echocardiogram.
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Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 20:26 GMT could i assume that the echo could be off by making the pressures seem lower or higher? just how much are these echos accurate? the tech herself is great and does know her stuff and the doc who read it, from what i have seen and experience via my mom, knows his stuff.. though he is a little jumpy and making some quick assumptions, but.. who knows.
it doesnt say anything regarding a 'conclusion' or recommendations or what they think should be done. this doctor is actually one of the head of that cardiology department.
so i should definitely not be worried about this pressure reading, at all? even despite this tricuspid regurgitation?
odd that they didnt mention the mitral valve regurgitation this time. hmm.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Jul 2007 20:56 GMT > could i assume that the echo could be off by making the pressures seem > lower or higher? Most of the error comes from the estimated RA pressure which is added to the measured pressure across the tricuspid valve to arrive at the PA systolic pressure.
> just how much are these echos accurate? It varies somewhat depending on the operator.
> the tech herself is great and > does know her stuff and the doc who read it, from what i have seen and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > so i should definitely not be worried about this pressure reading, at > all? even despite this tricuspid regurgitation? Correct.
> odd that they didnt mention the mitral valve regurgitation this time. > hmm. Mitral regurgitation can vary with blood pressure during the echocardiographic exam.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
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Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 21:19 GMT but what is the true normal range for pulmonary pressures? 14-25? 14-30? i also heard that anywhere between 25 and 35 and still not considered PAH? who knows. i keep hearing different things. and again, no reference value on the report.
could a longstanding PP of 27 mmhg cause problems down the line?
PetShopQueen007 - 25 Jul 2007 22:23 GMT and whats the difference between "mean" pulmonary arterial pressure and the systolic. i know what systolic means, but the reference values for the two are very different. for 'mean' its much lower. on other searches it says the normal systolic should be anywhere between 20-30 mmhg...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Jul 2007 00:42 GMT > but what is the true normal range for pulmonary pressures? What is more clinically relevant is what is normal for you. Your present measurement of 27 mmHg would now serve as your baseline since you presently do not have symptoms. It is possible that is your symptoms were to recur that they would redo your echocardiogram and possibly measure a 37 mmHg (10 pt increase) which would be clinically significant for you since it would be associated with symptoms.
> 14-25? 14-30? i also heard that anywhere between 25 and 35 and still > not considered PAH? who knows. i keep hearing different things. and > again, no reference value on the report. > > could a longstanding PP of 27 mmhg cause problems down the line? Not clinically seen.
Again, would consider your PASP of 27 mmHg to be a normal baseline for you since you are presently not having any symptoms.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
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Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 26 Jul 2007 05:08 GMT > What is more clinically relevant is what is normal for you. Your > present measurement of 27 mmHg would now serve as your baseline since > you presently do not have symptoms. It is possible that is your > symptoms were to recur that they would redo your echocardiogram and > possibly measure a 37 mmHg (10 pt increase) which would be clinically > significant for you since it would be associated with symptoms. do i have PH or not? thats all i want to know. would a doctor consider this that?
> Again, would consider your PASP of 27 mmHg to be a normal baseline for > you since you are presently not having any symptoms. well, in a sense i do have symptoms. hence, why ive been going to the cardiologists...
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Jul 2007 12:07 GMT > > What is more clinically relevant is what is normal for you. Your > > present measurement of 27 mmHg would now serve as your baseline since [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > do i have PH or not? Not according to the echocardiogram report you have given.
> thats all i want to know. would a doctor consider this that? Your history does not fit PH either.
> > Again, would consider your PASP of 27 mmHg to be a normal baseline for > > you since you are presently not having any symptoms. > > well, in a sense i do have symptoms. Not presently according to what you have written recently.
> hence, why ive been going to the cardiologists... You did reportedly have symptoms in the past.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
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Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 26 Jul 2007 16:57 GMT > Your history does not fit PH either. well, some of the problems i was having back when i was a teenager still make me wonder. but yeah, again, the worsening of it didnt occur until this year.. but it still makes me wonder. the SOB was going on for quite a while, but id just flicked it off as being out of shape.
and is this true?
" A systolic pulmonary artery pressure of 27 is not considered pulmonary hypertension.
Pulmonary hypertension is present when the mean (the average between systolic and diastolic) is greater than 25. For this to happen, the systolic pressure is usually greater than 40 - 50. "
and exactly how accurate are these echos compared to caths? so, this has been two echos ive had done and even though i dont know the measurements from the first one, it just said "no evidence of hypertension". and my symptoms havent worsened exactly, that i can really say. then again, it depends on how you look at it. if you compare it to how i was in december/january... its totally better. if you compare it to sporadic moments of problems within the last 2 years.. it would be feeling worse. but, i could also contribute that to a bunch of other problems, too. so who knows anymore.
again, i really do appreciate your input and replies.. and patience, LOL. i know im a pain in the a.s.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Jul 2007 18:01 GMT > > Your history does not fit PH either. > > well, some of the problems i was having back when i was a teenager > still make me wonder. but yeah, again, the worsening of it didnt occur > until this year.. but it still makes me wonder. the SOB was going on > for quite a while, but id just flicked it off as being out of shape. It may have been from your VAT since you reportedly have PCOS.
> and is this true? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > systolic and diastolic) is greater than 25. For this to happen, the > systolic pressure is usually greater than 40 - 50. " It is correct.
> and exactly how accurate are these echos compared to caths? Accurate enough to obviate the need for caths in most instances.
> so, this > has been two echos ive had done and even though i dont know the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > years.. it would be feeling worse. but, i could also contribute that > to a bunch of other problems, too. so who knows anymore. GOD knows.
> again, i really do appreciate your input and replies.. and patience, > LOL. You are welcome :-)
Redirecting all thanks and praises to GOD so that we will both be that much more blessed.
> i know im a pain in the a.s. Not for those who love you as they would their own sister.
Be hungry... be healthy... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
PetShopQueen007 - 27 Jul 2007 22:31 GMT ok, so saw my pulmonologist this afternoon for a followup from the other thing. well.. he saw the echo report and said well, 25 was the cut off for "normal" and mine is 27, so.. he didnt think i have PH. considering all the other things as well. that i passed their 6 minute stress walk and the CT scan, the echo (which pretty much came back perfect and all the right heart stuff was fine) and the the PFT. but... i mean, there's many people that pass all of those just fine with flying colors and they still have PH. ive even known of people who've had it whos levels were in the 60s and 70s and they still were barely symptomatic. so, who knows.
well, normally, anything 25 and over they consider it to be PH and and in that case id think even a 23 would be high. i mean, how did they come up with this scale anyway, really? isnt it possible that a PP of 30 or 35 for someone could actually be normal for that person and not cause any strain?
i talked to my mom's other cardiologist on the phone. well... he was callng my mom about something about her, and then she put me on the phone. ha. but he said that he wouldnt be concerned with the 27. that "it depends on the person, as in age, size, weight, etc" that doesnt make sense. and he seemed to say about that whole "mean" pressure thing, that.. it depends.. but still.. the systolic, either way shouldn't be anything higher than 25. eeek.
but what would cause someone's PP's to be 27? if no other problems exist with the heart and lungs? when they should be lower? i mean.. with systemic blood pressure.. thats different. many factors.. such as .. sodium, stress, weather, exercise, etc. but with the lung pressures.. cant it realistically be the same? everyone always says, no, its totally different... but how do they know? PH seems to be a very understudied condition and maybe, just like our systemic pressures, that it is possible for a persons PP's to vary just as a systemic blood pressure. i would think when your systemic blood pressure rises.. all the blood pressure throughout the body will as well.. even in the organs.. like.. the lungs... the kidneys.. the brain, etc. but not to dangerous levels. within a certain range.. but.. ya know what i mean?
ive even heard of people get numerous catherizations done and the levels be off. one woman was telling me online that she had one cath and it showed a PAP of 43 and then she had another one done a couple months later and it was down to a 23! or something like that. and then she was in the hospital for something else a couple weeks later and then it was up in the 50s and then back down again to a 17 or 20 or something like that a few months later. and i dont think she was on any meds, either.
its an interesting thought, though.
maybe more people have "PH" than is recognized and they dont even know it themselves... but it causes no problem, damage, or even progresses... ever. or intermittent.
so, if say my PAP came back on the echo of a 32 or 35.. then would i need to be worried? everyone always says. even at a 35 on an echo, one shouldn't be too worried.
how exactly DO they measure the PP's on an echo, via the tricuspid regurgitation with this jet velocity technique anyway?
is it true that theres no other way to determine PP's unless there s some tricuspid regurg?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Jul 2007 23:15 GMT > ok, so saw my pulmonologist this afternoon for a followup from the > other thing. well.. he saw the echo report and said well, 25 was the [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > need to be worried? everyone always says. even at a 35 on an echo, one > shouldn't be too worried. Your history simply does not match PH.
Indeed, none of your test results match PH either.
> how exactly DO they measure the PP's on an echo, via the tricuspid > regurgitation with this jet velocity technique anyway? It is using the principles of Doppler where there is a frequency shift of the reflected sound waves as a function of velocity of blood flow at the point of reflection.
> is it true that theres no other way to determine PP's unless there s > some tricuspid regurg? Without tricuspid regurgitation there would not be the needed reflected sound waves for Doppler measurement.
Be hungry... be health... be blessed:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/PressRelease
Prayerfully in Jesus' awesome love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Cardiologist
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