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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / January 2007

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The Original Mediterranean Diet for Weight loss

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gbiqmukhsdyy@yahoo.com - 01 Dec 2006 22:49 GMT
Well, let me quickly relate to my own experience where I learned that
when you're busy with day to day things or preoccupied with family or
friends, your weight can sometimes creep up on you without you
noticing. That is, until you realize your clothes don't fit as they
once did or at one brief horrifying moment, you catch a glimpse of a
few excess bulges in the mirror. Most of us are going through, have
gone through, or will go through the same unpleasant moment. I know
this much because it happened to me so you're not alone! I became so
frustrated when I tried powders and tablets because they were 'yukky'
and they took away any enjoyment I ever had at meal time. I no sooner
sat down to eat and all I wanted to do was leave the table almost
immediately. I thought "I can't keep this up!" I was right, I couldn't.
Then I tried the 'rabbit' thing. Dry uninteresting biscuits with
lettuce, carrots and celery etc. I was sure my ears were growing. That
didn't last long either. Finally, I relented and started one of the so
called 'fad' diets. This wasn't too bad to start with but I soon became
listless, my skin started to get dry and I was the very opposite to
enthusiastic about anything especially exercise of any sought. I
changed to another fad diet. This also had its shortcomings.
Not wanting to give up, I started searching the net and libraries every
spare moment I had. I approached some doctors & researchers and this
led me to discover the Mediterranean Diet. With great relief, I soon
found it has an abundance of supporting evidence - stacks of
verification, proof, research and very pleasing outcomes. Unlike some
of the diets cooked up in someones head over night, the Mediterranean
diet has a long healthy history. It was only days before I started
feeling vibrant again. I wanted to get out there and walk and be active
so much, I thought I would burst. You can imagine the feeling after so
many disappointments. My family was a little sceptical of a change in
diet but now they call me during the day to see what I'm going to cook
that night. Big change in my life! As a result of my weight loss and my
new healthy lifestyle, many of our friends & relations have taken up
the Medierranean diet as well. So now we're all swapping recipes and
discovering new tastes - there are so many recipes from all over the
Mediterranean that it seems endless. That's really a good thing though
because there will always be something new to try.
http://weightlosspb.blogspot.com/#
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 02 Dec 2006 08:41 GMT
Wiser to simply eat less:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/overweight.asp

> Well, let me quickly relate to my own experience where I learned that
> when you're busy with day to day things or preoccupied with family or
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> because there will always be something new to try.
> http://weightlosspb.blogspot.com/#
GeF - 06 Dec 2006 14:27 GMT
A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?

As I understand the process, heating the oil past 180° C causes it to
oxidize and it becomes as bad for the body as trans-fats and other
saturated greases..  (tell me if you know more about this).  Worse
of all it loses its good taste !!

I recently discovered this may be the reason why Mediterranean chefs
use ovens to prepare olive oil based dishes ...even, tomato
sauces.  They keep an oven going at 180°.  Thus they are guaranteed
not to burn the oil as could happen using pans over a stove top.

A further interesting detail of the way they cook, is that they use
copper pans with copper covers, thus heat transmission is fastest
and most uniform (unlike dishes prepared in ceramic pans as in northern
countries)

Thought you should know.  Comments appreciated.
William Wagner - 06 Dec 2006 16:04 GMT
> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Thought you should know.  Comments appreciated.

I use a dab of butter with my olive oil once in awhile.  Flavor for
pasta especially  squid.  Most olive oil here is used raw.

Main  oil for high temps at our house is Grape seed oil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapeseed_oil

Perhaps Pastorio can weigh in ?

Stir fryer Bill who likes the oven idea !

Signature

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade  
http://www.ocutech.com/  High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

Bob (this one) - 06 Dec 2006 17:28 GMT
>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
>>
>> As I understand the process,

You could check it you know. Somewhere other than the place
you got this nonsense to begin with.

>> heating the oil past 180° C causes it to
>> oxidize and it becomes as bad for the body as trans-fats and other
>> saturated greases..  (tell me if you know more about this).  Worse
>> of all it loses its good taste !!

No. It doesn't go through all that stuff. It doesn't go
through any of that stuff.

>> I recently discovered this may be the reason why Mediterranean chefs
>> use ovens to prepare olive oil based dishes ...even, tomato
>> sauces.  They keep an oven going at 180°.  Thus they are guaranteed
>> not to burn the oil as could happen using pans over a stove top.

I don't know where you got this misinformation, but it's
dead wrong. Tomato sauces are tomato-based, not oil based.
Olive oil-using cultures routinely fry stovetop with it.
They saute, shallow-fry and even deep-fry with olive oil.

Sauces aren't prepared in ovens. No one keeps an oven going
if they don't need to, and to make sauces, they don't need
to. Energy wasteful and unnecessary steps for the dish.

>> A further interesting detail of the way they cook, is that they use
>> copper pans with copper covers, thus heat transmission is fastest
>> and most uniform (unlike dishes prepared in ceramic pans as in northern
>> countries)

Who's "they" that have all this copper available? And what
northern countries cook predominately in "ceramic pans?"
This is a whole string of incorrect statements, a mishmash
of misinformation.

Olive oil is perfectly fine for frying stovetop. Ovens work
best for baking or roasting. Braising. Not sauce making.

>> Thought you should know.  Comments appreciated.

Don't go back to this source for culinary information. It's
very bad.

>  I use a dab of butter with my olive oil once in awhile.  Flavor for
> pasta especially  squid.  Most olive oil here is used raw.

Mixing olive oil and butter helps with the scorching of the
butter and adds a nice flavor boost.

>  Main  oil for high temps at our house is Grape seed oil.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grapeseed_oil
>
> Perhaps Pastorio can weigh in ?

This oven business is not a good approach and isn't in
general currency anywhere I know of.

Pastorio
GeF - 06 Dec 2006 20:04 GMT
>>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> Pastorio

If you say so.. ;)))))
Bob (this one) - 07 Dec 2006 22:20 GMT
>>>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>>>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
>
> If you say so.. ;)))))

Y'know. For somebody who knows squat about the subject, you
sure know squat about the subject. I am especially envious
about that talent for not doing any research or reading, you
know, a book or something.

I really admire your ability to form whole bodies of opinion
without cluttering them with, like, facts or pragmatic
knowledge. No empirical data to obscure and complicate the
vista. Nothing from a reliable source to muddy the waters.
No sir. Just content-free yips and empty-barrel hooting
based on thoughts more gossamer than a cloud.

Brilliant show.

Pastorio
GeF - 06 Dec 2006 19:59 GMT
>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Stir fryer Bill who likes the oven idea !

Thanks Bill..   actually, my use of olive oil is often two-fold.
First, as a means to provide contact between the pan and the stuff
being cooked.  Then a dab of the oil, raw, for the flavor.

Incidentally, the medical advice concerning cooking oils varies
widely.  Some allow peanut and/or sunflower.  Others don't.
Joe Doe - 06 Dec 2006 19:11 GMT
> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> saturated greases..  (tell me if you know more about this).  Worse
> of all it loses its good taste !!

This is debunked here:

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/cooking_olive_oil.htm

> I recently discovered this may be the reason why Mediterranean chefs
> use ovens to prepare olive oil based dishes ...even, tomato
> sauces.  They keep an oven going at 180°.  Thus they are guaranteed
> not to burn the oil as could happen using pans over a stove top.

One technique to not let olive oil reach too high a temperature is to
roll the food like say fish in the oil to lightly coat it and then fry
without any oil in the pan.  The food will release water which keeps the
temperature down.  This is obviously not the equivalent of frying but is
probably a healthier practice (In true frying the temperature of the oil
will be much higher than the boiling temperature of water which is the
purpose of deep or pan frying).  

Roland
GeF - 06 Dec 2006 19:54 GMT
>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Roland

Thanks for the very informative link.  It certainly cuts across what
I thought I knew.

Perhaps french chefs use ovens simply for the control such cooking
allows (as opposed to stove top cooking which requires  twiddling knobs
or shifting the position of the pan over the flame)
Bob (this one) - 07 Dec 2006 22:13 GMT
>>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Thanks for the very informative link.  It certainly cuts across what
> I thought I knew.

You guessed at every bit of it. Cobbled together bits of
randomly collected misinformation.

> Perhaps french chefs use ovens simply for the control such cooking
> allows (as opposed to stove top cooking which requires  twiddling knobs
> or shifting the position of the pan over the flame)

I'm a French-trained chef. This stuff is nonsense. Clearly -
I mean very, very clearly - you have no idea what a French
chef does or doesn't do. You aren't any sort of cook
yourself if you think "stove top cooking [...] requires
twiddling knobs or shifting the position of the pan over the
flame." You seem to think that cooking is a process that
demands 100% concentration and attention. Silly you.

All your "perhaps" comments show it to be guesswork. Buy a
cookbook. Check a reliable source. You clearly - I mean
very, very clearly - haven't done the most rudimentary looking.

All of Julia Childs' books will give you clear explanations
of French culinary technique. In English. When you're done
with them, let me know, I'll give you a couple hundred more
to look at.

Pastorio
GeF - 08 Dec 2006 00:05 GMT
>>>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning the
>>>> olive oil used in frying fish, meats, onions, etc.. ?
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Pastorio

So you feel attacked in *the marrow of your self-hood*, hé, Pastorio ?
I thought so as I read your aggressively pompous pap.

By the way, I'm not a cook.  Mais je suis Français.  And the info I
related in my original post was taken from a documentary narrated
by one of the Troisgros brothers showing him utilising a 180°C oven
as described, using copper pans and covers, as described, making a
tomato sauce, as decribed.

They run one of the most famous 3 star restaurant in all of France.
Bob (this one) - 08 Dec 2006 16:13 GMT
>>>>> A detail concerning the "Mediterranean diet" : how to avoid burning
>>>>> the
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> So you feel attacked in *the marrow of your self-hood*, hé, Pastorio ?

No. I feel like Don Quixote tilting at windbags.

> I thought so as I read your aggressively pompous pap.

Your psychology is every bit as good as your culinaria. Nearly.

I am put off by specious twaddle with no real bearing on
daily kitchen operations that are offered as realistic. I'm
disturbed by grossly incorrect statements that might lead
others to reach the same impractical conclusions. I'm
distressed by lazy research and incompetent assertion as
results of it.

> By the way, I'm not a cook.

No. Really? I believe I said that, but it was no brilliance
on my part. Your words exemplified the concept of "res ipsa
loquitur."

> Mais je suis Français.

All the more shameful, given the resources available to you.
You've absorbed nothing from what is arguably the culture
with the most advanced and detailed culinary tradition on earth.

>  And the info I
> related in my original post was taken from a documentary narrated
> by one of the Troisgros brothers showing him utilising a 180°C oven
> as described, using copper pans and covers, as described, making a
> tomato sauce, as decribed.

I'm not sure I believe you. Most upscale French restaurants
cook in copper. Most French homes - as you should well know
- don't use so much copper cookware.

Which Troisgros was it? Let's see, there's Pierre who makes
tomato sauce this way:
    "In a large saucepan, combine 1 tablespoon of the olive oil
and the
onion, cover the pan, and sweat the onion for about 10
minutes over
medium-low heat.
    "Add the tomatoes, thyme, bay leaf, garlic, 1 tablespoon of
the vinegar,
the honey and 1 additional tablespoon of the oil. Simmer,
uncovered,
over medium heat, until much of the liquid has evaporated,
about 15
minutes. Discard the bay leaf, and season to taste with salt
and pepper.
    "Put the entire mixture into a food processor and puree.
Put through a
fine sieve."

Or maybe - probably - you misunderstood this from
Marie-Pierre and Michel:
"Cooking / The tomato
    "The tomato represents part of my roots, an ingredient that
was essential in developing my sense of taste. Before using
tomato, I often roast it for a long time to further
concentrate its flavours, give it more acidity, bring out
the sweetness and firm up its flesh."
[...]
    "Finally, and perhaps most surprisingly, I also use
tomatoes in classic sauces and compotes. In this case it’s a
matter of drawing on what might be called “the spirit of the
tomato,” that surprising mix of sweetness and acidity
combined of course with its flavour. This is the case, for
instance, in the “Derrière de lapin à la mauresque”
(Moorish-style rabbit legs), where the tomato, as in many
traditional cuisines, serves as an acidic binder that
“carries” the herbs and spices."

Or maybe the recipe for "Tart Tomatoes"
    "Peel the tomatoes by dipping them in boiling water to
loosen the skin. Cut each tomato into 4 “petals,” removing
the seeds, and line them up on an oiled baking sheet.
    "Salt, pepper, and sprinkle lightly with sugar. Drizzle
with olive oil and roast very slowly in an oven at 100 C
(225 F, gas 3-4) for 3 to 4 hours. The longer they cook the
more wrinkled they will become and the more their acidity
will be accentuated.
    "Store them in a covered container, with olive oil to cover."

Interestingly, that last instruction isn't a good one.
Botulism is a distant possibility.

So, having watched a documentary you're unequipped to
understand, you extrapolated to *all* cooks what this man
does. So you talked about ceramic pans from other European
cultures. So you concluded erroneously about what was going
on. So you took *one* source as *all* the information there
was about it? You're not a cook, to be sure; you're not a
logician, either.

> They run one of the most famous 3 star restaurant in all of France.

<LOL> I've eaten with them a few times over the years, last
maybe 15 years ago. They also have claimed to have invented
many new techniques, some of which stand scrutiny. They were
last at the popular forefront with Cuisine Minceur, and
that's a long time ago.

In parting, here's a tasty recipe from them:
        Sweet-and-sour cherry tomatoes
    Match these tomatoes with pan-fried foie gras or veal liver
with bitter orange sauce. Be sure to keep the liquid from
the marinade, which can be used again. It’s so flavourful
that you can use it as a dressing for a salad of beetroot,
carrot or cabbage. I also like to contrast these tomatoes
with ewe’s or goat’s cheese.
    60 cherry tomatoes
    500 g acacia honey (1 lb 2 oz)
    40 cl sherry vinegar (1 2/3 cups)
    3 garlic cloves
    1 sprig rosemary
    1 vanilla pod
    3 tbsp extra-virgin olive oil
    Salt, pepper
    60 coriander seeds
Dip the tomatoes in boiling water for a few seconds to
loosen their skins and peel them. Place them in a heatproof
dish, tightly packed. Season with salt and pepper. In a
saucepan, boil the honey until lightly caramelised. Add the
crushed garlic, a slit and seeded vanilla pod, rosemary,
coriander seeds and olive oil. Pour this mixture over the
tomatoes to cover them well and bring briefly to a boil. Add
the vinegar off the heat, cover and leave to cool on the
table. Set aside in a cool place for at least 24 hours, to
allow the tomatoes to soak up all the flavours.

Au revoir...

Pastorio
GeF - 08 Dec 2006 17:00 GMT
Primitive.
Bob (this one) - 08 Dec 2006 17:33 GMT
> Primitive.

<LOL> And people think that Chung slip-slides away...

Pastorio
GeF - 08 Dec 2006 20:16 GMT
Pauvre con !
Bob (this one) - 09 Dec 2006 04:51 GMT
> Pauvre con !

Elegant.

Departee. Like repartee, but shouted over the shoulder on
the way out the door because they person has nothing
reasonable to say. So they say *something* anyway.

You know, GeF, you get to look more and more silly with each
empty note. In French and in English.

Pastorio
GeF - 09 Dec 2006 19:28 GMT
>> Pauvre con !
>
> Elegant.

no comment ;)
Bob (this one) - 10 Dec 2006 06:16 GMT
>>> Pauvre con !
>>
>> Elegant.
>>
> no comment ;)

Even when you comment, there's no real comment.

Pauvre fou...

Pastorio
GeF - 10 Dec 2006 09:44 GMT
> Pauvre fou...

enfin ;)
Bob (this one) - 10 Dec 2006 21:43 GMT
>> Pauvre fou...
>
> enfin ;)

Seulement pour vous, cher ami...

Pastorio
GeF - 10 Dec 2006 22:52 GMT
>>> Pauvre fou...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Pastorio

Faites attention à votre pression, cher Bob..
Bob (this one) - 10 Dec 2006 23:13 GMT
>>>> Pauvre fou...
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Faites attention à votre pression, cher Bob..

Bas. Bien a bas. Vous?

Pastorio
GeF - 10 Dec 2006 23:27 GMT
>>>>> Pauvre fou...
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Pastorio

parfois 80/140 parfois 90/150 mais parfois encore plus :-(
Bob (this one) - 12 Dec 2006 13:52 GMT
>>>>>> Pauvre fou...
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> parfois 80/140 parfois 90/150 mais parfois encore plus :-(

Dommage... restez bien.

Pastorio
William Wagner - 12 Dec 2006 16:04 GMT
> >>>>>> Pauvre fou...
> >>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Pastorio

Sat.

Bill

............

Aside any good smoked eel suggestions or providers you like for  holiday
table ?

.............
P.S.   Sat.

sat                  ADJ    9 9 X   X X POS            
sat                 ADJ   [XXXCO]  
enough, adequate, sufficient; satisfactory;

sat                  ADV    POS                        
sat                 ADV   [XXXCO]  
enough, adequately; sufficiently; well enough, quite; fairly, pretty;

Not that I'm that smart but the Mac program   "Latin Words" hides my
ignorance well.

Signature

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade  
http://www.ocutech.com/  High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

Bob (this one) - 12 Dec 2006 17:14 GMT
>>>>>>>> Pauvre fou...
>>>>>>> enfin ;)
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Bill

Bill, I must confess to virtually never understanding your
posts - two of them showing up at the moment. Like this one.
Using whole sentences, could you say what this means? Do you
think some word above means "sat?" Do you think it's Latin?

Are you asking me about smoked eel?

Pastorio

> ............
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Not that I'm that smart but the Mac program   "Latin Words" hides my
> ignorance well.
GeF - 12 Dec 2006 23:55 GMT
> Aside any good smoked eel suggestions or providers you like for  holiday
> table ?

I second the request... wanted : a provider of dutch "gerookte paling"...!
GeF - 13 Dec 2006 00:00 GMT
>> Aside any good smoked eel suggestions or providers you like for  
>> holiday table ?
>
> I second the request... wanted : a provider of dutch "gerookte paling"...!

En als bonus kun je in Zierikzee een palingbroodje kopen :-))
sherry - 30 Jan 2007 05:34 GMT
Hi Everyone,
there seems to be a new development in the field of "Low carb diets" .
I was reading about it on
http://www.medical-health-care-information.com/Health-living/crab-
diets/index.asp

which says 'Limit carbohydrates to no more than 10 percent of your
daily calorie intake'.

1) Eat only allowed foods.
2) Eat NO foods that contain sugar or white flour.
3) Be aware of "hidden" sugars and carbohydrates.
4) Cut out caffeine.
5) Take fiber supplements.
6) Take vitamin and mineral supplements.
7) Drink LOTS of water.

> Well, let me quickly relate to my own experience where I learned that
> when you're busy with day to day things or preoccupied with family or
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Mediterranean that it seems endless. That's really a good thing though
> because there will always be something new to try.http://weightlosspb.blogspot.com/#
 
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