Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / August 2006
Your daily quote of sanity - August 25
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The Lord, pt. II - 25 Aug 2006 22:40 GMT "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it dies."
---M.K. Gandhi
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Aug 2006 23:07 GMT Nymshifting neighbor wrote:
> "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it > dies." > > ---M.K. Gandhi "Faith in LORD Jesus Christ never dies." -- Holy Spirit
Amen !
Laus Dei !
Marana tha !
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Cary Kittrell - 25 Aug 2006 23:09 GMT > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Faith in LORD Jesus Christ never dies." -- Holy Spirit People never lose faith? I thought that even Jesus Himself talked about that happening.
-- cary
Big Dave - 26 Aug 2006 01:53 GMT >> Nymshifting neighbor wrote: >> > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > People never lose faith? I thought that even Jesus Himself > talked about that happening. This is Chung's Jesus. Other Jesus' mileage may vary.
David H. #2217
Ben Kaufman - 26 Aug 2006 13:37 GMT <SNIP>
>> People never lose faith? I thought that even Jesus Himself >> talked about that happening. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > David H. > #2217 Kinda moot since they stopped selling leaded gasoline.
Ben
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Aug 2006 06:52 GMT > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > People never lose faith? Not when they have placed their faith in the LORD.
> I thought that even Jesus Himself talked about that happening. It is written HE will not lose any of HIS sheep.
May GOD continue to heal you heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
panamfloyd@hotmail.com - 26 Aug 2006 07:45 GMT > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Not when they have placed their faith in the LORD. http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/
Hey, Cary. Betcha two US dollars he says something like, "They never had true faith to begin with.". <g>
-Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 Aug 2006 14:26 GMT > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/
>From your cite: "On January 16, 1984, I sent out this letter announcing my new-found atheism to more than fifty colleagues, friends, and family members:"
"Dear friend, " "You probably already know that I have gone through some significant changes regarding spiritual things. The past five or six years has been a time of deep re-evaluation for me, and during the last couple of years I have decided that I can no longer honestly call myself a Christian. You can probably imagine that it has been an agonizing process for me. I was raised in a good Christian home, served in missions and evangelism, went to a Christian college, became ordained and ministered in three churches as Assistant Pastor. During those years I was 100 percent convinced of my faith, and now I am just about 100 percent unconvinced."
No mention of his having placed his faith in LORD Jesus Christ.
No mention of GOD's love, which is the fruit of faith in LORD Jesus Christ.
"The purpose of this letter is not to present my case. Yet, I will point out that my studies have brought me through many important areas, most notably: the authenticity of the Bible, faith vs. reason, church history--and a bunch of other fun subjects like evolution, physics, psychology, self-esteem, philosophy, parapsychology, pseudo-science, mathematics, etc."
Without the LORD, all intellectual pursuits are meaningless (Ecclesiastes).
"I'm not sure what the purpose of this letter is, except to serve as a point of information to a friend or relative whom I consider to be important in my life, and with whom I could not bear to be dishonest. I have not thrown the baby out with the bath water. I still basically maintain the same Christian values of kindness, love, giving, temperance and respect that I was raised with. Christianity has much good. Yet I feel I can demonstrate an alternate, rational basis for those values outside of a system of faith and authority. Of course, I admit, those values cannot save me from the fires of hell--but it is irrational to hold a fear of something which is non-existent, and to allow that fear to dominate one's philosophy and way of life."
Love is not a Christian value but a choice made through GOD's generous gift of free will to obey Christ Jesus' two commandments:
(1) Love GOD with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
(2) Love all others including your enemies unconditionally as you would love yourself.
"If the Bible is true I will run to it willingly. If there is a God, I would be silly to deny Him. In fact, the little child in me still sometimes wishes to regain the comforts and reassurances of my former beliefs. I am a human being with the same fears and feelings we all share. The Bible says those who seek will find. You know me. I am constantly seeking. And I have not found. Right now I am somewhere between the agnostic and the atheist, although I spend a great deal of time in both camps."
Those with faith in LORD Jesus Christ find what they seek.
Those without faith in LORD Jesus Christ will remain lost.
"There is much more to say, and I would greatly appreciate any input you can offer. I would suggest, though, that before we attempt any meaningful dialogue, we should understand as much as possible about each other's thoughts. If you wish, I will send you any of various papers I am preparing, including: The Bible, Faith vs. Reason, . . ."
"My LORD **and** my GOD !" -- Archetypal atheist "doubting" Thomas supplanting reason with faith upon seeing the risen Christ Jesus.
"Finally, I am not your enemy. Our enemy is the one who doesn't care about these subjects--who thinks that you and I are silly to be concerned with life and values. I intend no disrespect to you, or anyone who is genuinely interested in religion and philosophy. It is the non-thinker who bothers me and with whom meaningful interaction is impossible."
"Dan Barker"
>From the other things that he has written, it is clear that he holds the opinion that arguing/debating are interactions that have meaning because they serve to test the truth, Who is the LORD. This opinion is confirmed with his writing "If the Bible is true I will run to it willingly." His having this opinion from the outset reveals that though he convinced himself through self-debate that he had faith, he never did because those with faith have the LORD's peace, which passes all worldly understanding so that they no longer test the LORD but simply trust HIM. Moreover, it is written that we are not to test the LORD our GOD. May GOD help neighbor Dan Barker whom I love unconditionally in Jesus' most precious and holy name. Amen.
> Hey, Cary. Betcha two US dollars he says something like, "They never > had true faith to begin with.". <g> Hope what the Holy Spirit has guided me to write has not disappointed anyone.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Floyd whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
panamfloyd@hotmail.com - 31 Aug 2006 02:38 GMT > > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > No mention of his having placed his faith in LORD Jesus Christ. You dumb bitch-assed moron. You were supposed to wait until AFTER Cary took the bet. Can't you do ANYTHING right?
-Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 31 Aug 2006 02:56 GMT > > > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > You dumb bitch-assed moron. Name-calling simply shows how lost you remain.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Floyd whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
blackrotspon@yahoo.com - 31 Aug 2006 03:43 GMT Seen elsewhere: God hate amputees.
panamfloyd@hotmail.com - 31 Aug 2006 04:09 GMT > > > > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Name-calling simply shows how lost you remain. And your sensitivity to it shows what a pale imitation of a man you are. Now where's my two dollars?
-Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 31 Aug 2006 11:01 GMT > > > > > > > Andrew wrote: > > > > > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > And your sensitivity to it shows what a pale imitation of a man you > are. Now where's my two dollars? Your parents whom you are still living with have your lunch money :-)
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Floyd whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
The discerning heart and the Holy Bible:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3fa4ecde07979a5a?
The spiritually blind and the Holy Bible:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/213405b65c04ea11?
Cary Kittrell - 28 Aug 2006 17:22 GMT > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Hey, Cary. Betcha two US dollars he says something like, "They never > had true faith to begin with.". <g> But of course. No one ever put his hand to the plow, and then looked back, either.
-- cary
bob young - 27 Aug 2006 05:25 GMT > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > People never lose faith? I thought that even Jesus Himself > talked about that happening. nobody has any idea what the Late JC was supposed to have said, all we have are scribblings about 1.4 generations later
> -- cary Uncle Vic - 26 Aug 2006 04:07 GMT Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this:
> Nymshifting neighbor wrote: >> "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Faith in LORD Jesus Christ never dies." -- Holy Spirit It did in Dan barker. Therefore, the "holy spirit" lied. Why do you believe in a liar, Earthquack?
 Signature Uncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club.
Al - 26 Aug 2006 14:15 GMT > "Faith in LORD Jesus Christ never dies." -- Holy Spirit Want proof he's nuts? Chung is attributing a QUOTE to "holy spirit"!!!
bob young - 27 Aug 2006 05:24 GMT > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > "Faith in LORD Jesus Christ never dies." -- Holy Spirit At least not until some nut makes up another religion for weaklings to follow.
> Amen ! > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 Aug 2006 08:54 GMT > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > At least not until some nut makes up another religion for weaklings to > follow. "Heaven and earth will pass away. MY words will never pass away." -- LORD Jesus Christ.
May GOD continue to heal your heart dear neighbor Bob whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
bob young - 29 Aug 2006 06:45 GMT > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "Heaven and earth will pass away. MY words will never pass away." -- > LORD Jesus Christ. See what I mean !
> May GOD continue to heal your heart dear neighbor Bob whom I love > unconditionally. My heart pumps blood.
Electronic impulses in some brains result in them wallowing in superstition.
> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 29 Aug 2006 08:15 GMT > > > > Nymshifting neighbor wrote: > > > > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > See what I mean ! You mean nothing without the LORD (Ecclesiastes)... so there is nothing to see at the moment.
May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Bob whom I love unconditionally.
Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit
As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed?
Ben Kaufman - 27 Aug 2006 19:44 GMT >> Nymshifting neighbor wrote: >> > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >At least not until some nut makes up another religion for weaklings to >follow. <SNIP>
They tried but weights made in the shape of a crucifix were very dangerous if dropped. :-)
Ben
Sgt.Sausage - 25 Aug 2006 23:19 GMT > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it > dies." > > ---M.K. Gandhi I believe Mr. Gandhi -- great man that he was (and he *truly* was one of the GreatOnes(tm) -- I believe he could not have been more wrong on this one.
Faith and reason are incompatible, by definition.
"Reason" is based on observation, and logic.
"Faith" is based on belief and trust, specifically in the absense of reason.
The two can never be resolved. They are, by definition, incommensurable.
Pastor Kutchie - 26 Aug 2006 02:37 GMT > > "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it > > dies." [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The two can never be resolved. They are, by > definition, incommensurable. Faith and belief are at the bottom of the intellectual food chain
Ben Kaufman - 26 Aug 2006 14:18 GMT >> "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it >> dies." [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >The two can never be resolved. They are, by >definition, incommensurable. I am not very knowledgable about Ghandi, however, based upon the above quote (which appears to be edited but is hopefully not out of context) he is saying only that faith must be guided by reason, not vice versa.
For example, your kid is terribly sick. Do you have blind faith that God is going to make him well or do you bring him to a Dr?
Ben
SkumTaht - 26 Aug 2006 03:15 GMT "The Lord, pt. II" <chungismybeyotch@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1156542005.089534.69470 @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it > dies." > > ---M.K. Gandhi SkumTaht - 26 Aug 2006 04:03 GMT The Lawd doesn't exist, so stop fantisizing you idiots.
"The Lord, pt. II" <chungismybeyotch@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1156542005.089534.69470 @h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> "Faith... Must be enforced by reason...When faith becomes blind it > dies." > > ---M.K. Gandhi
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