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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / September 2006Possible Start of the H5N1 Avian Flu Pandemic - The Great Tribulation ?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love > unconditionally. According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why should we look to him/her/it for help? > In Satan's amazing grip, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ex-Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > Andrew wrote > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why should > we look to him/her/it for help? Because we will need HIS help. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (love10@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why >> should we look to him/her/it for help? > > Because we will need HIS help. Speak for yourself, Earthquack. Most people on this planet can fend for themselves. You fundies do it all the time, although you *think* you are getting help from your invisible sky fairy.  SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why should > > we look to him/her/it for help? > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love > unconditionally. > > Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, ROTFLMAO It was a valiant effort Kurt. So how does it feel to be loved unconditionally? Normally when you troll this site you get them threatening you with eternal damnation and spitting indignation at your blasphemies. But not Andrew, God bless his simple little soul. The MD/PhD is clearly his one little sin - the sin of lying. He's far too simple to have even graduated from high school. > > > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why should > > > we look to him/her/it for help? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ROTFLMAO "Written laughter is silent despair." May GOD help you out of your despair, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > "Written laughter is silent despair." > > May GOD help you out of your despair, dear neighbor whom I love > unconditionally. Written love is silent despair Andrew. Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Nechesh (Nechesh@googlemail.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> "Written laughter is silent despair." >> >> May GOD help you out of your despair, dear neighbor whom I love >> unconditionally. > > Written love is silent despair Andrew. LOL! I mean, ROFLMAO! I mean... heh... hahahaha sheesh! SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > > "Written laughter is silent despair." > > > > May GOD help you out of your despair, dear neighbor whom I love > > unconditionally. > > Written love is silent despair Andrew. Not for the discerning. "The third time HE said to him,'Simon son of John, do you love me?' Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, 'Do you love me?' He said, 'LORD you know all things; you know that I love you.' Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep...'" (John 21:17). May GOD help you with your needs, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message > "The third time HE said to him,'Simon son of John, do you love me?' > Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, 'Do you love [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Tightly in Satan's amazing grip, Andrew, written love is closeted gayness.... > Andrew <>< <== is that a bass? > -- > Andrew B. Chung > ex-Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > "The third time HE said to him,'Simon son of John, do you love me?' > Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, 'Do you love > me?' He said, 'LORD you know all things; you know that I love you.' > Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep...'" (John 21:17). Oh Andrew, Andrew... quoting scripture? We can all do that... Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God. I am the Snake that giveth Knowledge & Delight and bright glory, and stir the hearts of men with drunkenness. To worship me take wine and strange drugs whereof I will tell my prophet, & be drunk thereof! They shall not harm ye at all. It is a lie, this folly against self. The exposure of innocence is a lie. Be strong, o man! lust, enjoy all things of sense and rapture: fear not that any God shall deny thee for this. > > "The third time HE said to him,'Simon son of John, do you love me?' > > Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, 'Do you love > > me?' He said, 'LORD you know all things; you know that I love you.' > > Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep...'" (John 21:17). > > Oh Andrew, Andrew... quoting scripture? We can all do that... Yes, including satan. May GOD heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > > Oh Andrew, Andrew... quoting scripture? We can all do that... > > Yes, including satan. WHOAHAHAHAHA <swishes forked tail in dashing fashion reminiscent of Zorro> YES LITTLE ANDREW, I WANT YOUR SOUL WAHAHAHAHAHA <tries to look sinister while sharpening his trident and sweating like a bastard> f.ck ME IT'S HOT DOWN HERE! <turns off the fires of Hell and switches on the AC) PHEW THAT'S BETTER! THINK I'LL GET ME A NICE COLD BEER <opens fridge door while revelling in his own diabolical wickedness> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Nechesh (garyellins@gmail.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> > Oh Andrew, Andrew... quoting scripture? We can all do that... >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > PHEW THAT'S BETTER! THINK I'LL GET ME A NICE COLD BEER > <opens fridge door while revelling in his own diabolical wickedness> Did somebody say COLD beer? Be right there! SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. >> > Oh Andrew, Andrew... quoting scripture? We can all do that... >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >PHEW THAT'S BETTER! THINK I'LL GET ME A NICE COLD BEER ><opens fridge door while revelling in his own diabolical wickedness> Don't forget that Satan believes in God. Blessings, John Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet John (john9212112@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this: > Don't forget that Satan believes in God. Yes, but does he believe in Santa Claus? SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. John wrote:> Don't forget that Satan believes in God. > Blessings, > John So do I John. But my experience of Him is rather different from the twisted, evil tyrant portrayed in the Bible. The christian interpretation of Biblegod bears virtually no relation at all to the real God. And your cowering, craven obedience to Biblegod, out of fear of his wrath and punishment, is pitiful. However, christian attempts to proselytise and to convert are dispicable, and you and your beligerent religion are deserving of condemnation for the crimes you personally continue to perpetrate against your fellow man. > John wrote:> Don't forget that Satan believes in God. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > So do I John. But my experience of Him is rather different from the > twisted, evil tyrant portrayed in the Bible. The Holy Bible portrays LORD Jesus Christ as kind, just and right. "My LORD **and** my GOD ! " -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas upon seeing the risen Christ Jesus > The christian > interpretation of Biblegod bears virtually no relation at all to the > real God. Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). > And your cowering, craven obedience to Biblegod, out of fear > of his wrath and punishment, is pitiful. In truth, we obey HIM because we love HIM with all of our hearts, souls, minds, and strengths. > However, christian attempts to proselytise and to convert are > dispicable The unconditional love we have for everyone including those who despise us compels us to show everyone the way to eternal life that is possible through LORD Jesus Christ. > , and you and your beligerent religion are deserving of > condemnation for the crimes you personally continue to perpetrate > against your fellow man. Again, without the LORD, your opinion will always be meaningless (Ecclesiastes). May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > The Holy Bible portrays LORD Jesus Christ as kind, just and right. And God the Father as a genocidal psychopath... Either way, any god which claims the right to judge you and who threatens you with punishment and damnation is a false god. > "My LORD **and** my GOD ! " -- Archetypal Atheist "Doubting" Thomas > upon seeing the risen Christ Jesus "LORD" in an english bible (the NIV for example) is several different words in the original language. Taking different Hebrew names, referring to different divinities, adding them to Greek names, and then pretending they are all one and the same "LORD" is dishonest. I therefore accuse you of lying and of trying to deceive. > Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). Which LORD? And claiming differing viewpoints are 'meaningless' bacause they do not accept your viewpoint is called 'blind faith'. But fear not Andrew, if you forsake Biblegod, then the true god can restore your sight... > In truth, we obey HIM because we love HIM with all of our hearts, > souls, minds, and strengths. This is not true. You are now lying to yourself. You obey him, because if you don't he'll cast you into hell to suffer an eternity of torment. > The unconditional love we have for everyone including those who despise > us compels us to show everyone the way to eternal life that is possible > through LORD Jesus Christ. Unconditional love compels you only to love. This is in stark contrast to showing them contempt with your disrespectful proselytising. To claim that you proselytise out of love is a lie. You are a liar. > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love > unconditionally. My heart needs no healing. I am not subject to the fear and threats of your false god. May you heal your own heart and free yourself from the shackles of the slavegod. > > The Holy Bible portrays LORD Jesus Christ as kind, just and right. > > And God the Father as a genocidal psychopath... No. "Now that you know ME, you know my Father Who sent me." -- LORD Jesus Christ. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? >> > The Holy Bible portrays LORD Jesus Christ as kind, just and right. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "Now that you know ME, you know my Father Who sent me." -- LORD Jesus > Christ. And again you affirm you are groveling to TWO gods, violating the Commandments. Andrew, you are condemned. > >> > The Holy Bible portrays LORD Jesus Christ as kind, just and right. > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > And again you affirm you are groveling to TWO gods Actually, LORD Jesus Christ affirms that there is one GOD the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > Actually, LORD Jesus Christ affirms that there is one GOD the Father, > the Son, and the Holy Spirit. More lies Andrew. The concept of the trinity was invented and imposed upon the christian church by a pagan Roman emperor in the 4th century AD. He did this for political, rather than religious, reasons. http://history-world.org/first_nicene_council.htm May GOD stop you from lying in His name. > > Actually, LORD Jesus Christ affirms that there is one GOD the Father, > > the Son, and the Holy Spirit. > > More lies Andrew. It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? >> > Actually, LORD Jesus Christ affirms that there is one GOD the Father, >> > the Son, and the Holy Spirit. >> >> More lies Andrew. > > It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully. You are too ignorant and impaired in thinking ability to know whether or not you write truthfully. Christianity is just as manmade as TV advertising and political campaigns are. May YOU GET HELP and heal your mind, dear Andrew Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (love2 @heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love > unconditionally. May a diseased yak leave a surprise in your underwear drawer. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Andrew wrote: > > > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love > > unconditionally. > > May a diseased yak leave a surprise in your underwear drawer. Sorry my prayers on behalf of others bothers you so terribly. Please forgive all my iniquities. May GOD also continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? >> > "Written laughter is silent despair." >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Not for the discerning. For values of "discerning" approaching "clinical kooky." SignatureMark K. Bilbo -------------------------------------------------- "As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans for everything bad that happened during and after Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people who lived here were much more prepared for a big storm than the federal government that promised us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry] http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC "Everything New Orleans" http://www.nola.com >> > "Written laughter is silent despair." >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > me?' He said, 'LORD you know all things; you know that I love you.' > Jesus said, 'Feed my sheep...'" (John 21:17). "Feed my sheep..." Is that similar to, "Suck my dick..."? Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (love10@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> > > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so >> > > why should we look to him/her/it for help? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "Written laughter is silent despair." How else is one supposed to express laughter in a TEXT-ONLY forum, numbnuts? SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Andrew wrote: > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > How else is one supposed to express laughter in a TEXT-ONLY forum Just as you have. > , numbnuts? Your name-calling is forgiven as far as I am concerned. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit Just as you have. > Your name-calling is forgiven as far as I am concerned. > > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love > unconditionally. Hey Vic, you're one lucky dude. Andrew loves you. Of course, you are not obliged to accept his love, anymore than you are obliged to believe that his love is sincere... Because it isn't sincere, is it Andrew? Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Nechesh (Nechesh@googlemail.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> Your name-calling is forgiven as far as I am concerned. >> >> May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love >> unconditionally. > > Hey Vic, you're one lucky dude. Andrew loves you. Yuk. Tell him I don't swing that way. > Of course, you are not obliged to accept his love, anymore than you are > obliged to believe that his love is sincere... > > Because it isn't sincere, is it Andrew? That's OK, surface-love is better than nothing. Apparently his omniscient god can't read minds. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. >> > > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so >> > > why should we look to him/her/it for help? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep! "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep! "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep! "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep! "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." SignatureMark K. Bilbo -------------------------------------------------- "As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans for everything bad that happened during and after Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people who lived here were much more prepared for a big storm than the federal government that promised us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry] http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC "Everything New Orleans" http://www.nola.com > Beep! "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is > silent despair." Beep. "Written laughter is silent despair." Beep. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -- You know if you play this backwards, it contains messages from the Devil... ;-) >> > According to you fundies, god is the one causing the pandemic, so why >> > should [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It was a valiant effort Kurt. So how does it feel to be loved > unconditionally? He loves a lot of people "unconditionally". We're all careful not to drop the soap..... > Normally when you troll this site you get them threatening you with > eternal damnation and spitting indignation at your blasphemies. > > But not Andrew, God bless his simple little soul. The MD/PhD is clearly > his one little sin - the sin of lying. He's far too simple to have even > graduated from high school. That's the really disturbing part. Apparently he really does have advanced degrees from a good university. He alludes to having been "beaten to death" by the police in 1997. I'm wondering if he didn't take a head injury, and then descended into this world of his. >> Andrew wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Because we will need HIS help. So, the only way this "god" of yours can attract followers, is to create a catatrophe, then "save" peple from it? That's like the fire department being an arsonist. Not much of a "god" - I'm glad he doesn't actually exist.... > Andrew wrote: > >> Andrew wrote [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > So, the only way this "god" of yours can attract followers, is to create a > catatrophe, then "save" peple from it? No. The purpose of the Great Tribulation is not for attracting followers but to test HIS brethren. > That's like the fire department being an arsonist. No. This would be like a blacksmith heating a sword to temper its steel. > Not much of a "god" - I'm glad he doesn't actually exist.... Most assuredly without doubt, HE exists and every head will bow and ever knee will bend acknowledging that HE is: "KING of kings and LORD of lords." (Revelation 19:16) Amen ! Laus Deo ! Marana tha ! May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> So, the only way this "god" of yours can attract followers, is to create >> a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The purpose of the Great Tribulation is not for attracting followers > but to test HIS brethren. Well, then he's a rather stupid god. Most of the people so far afflicted with H5N1 have been non-xians, probably never expoused to his "light". They aren't HIS/HER/IT'S brethren, so he's doing the whole thing wrong. >> That's like the fire department being an arsonist. > > No. Yes. > This would be like a blacksmith heating a sword to temper its steel. Well, with H5N1 he's currently pounding on non-christians, so how can this be "GOD" versus, say, SATAN, to whom you are ACTUALLY grovelling? You really are wacky, Andrew. > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. Not to the discerning. > Most of the people so far afflicted with H5N1 have been non-xians, probably > never expoused to his "light". In truth, the first cluster in Indonesia occurred in a Christian village in a Christian family who had family members praying at the bed-side daily for 3 months straight for the sole-survivor. By all accounts, the survival of this young man is a miracle: http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/15107685.htm?source=rss&channel= miamiherald_world http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html > They aren't HIS/HER/IT'S brethren, so he's doing the whole thing wrong. See above. > >> That's like the fire department being an arsonist. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, with H5N1 he's currently pounding on non-christians, so how can this > be "GOD" versus, say, SATAN, to whom you are ACTUALLY grovelling? Your believing in satan implies you now believe in GOD. > You really are wacky, Andrew. Your name-calling is forgiven as far as I am concerned. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html Rubbish. It's largely been occuring to non-xians. >> They aren't HIS/HER/IT'S brethren, so he's doing the whole thing wrong. > > See above. Rubbish. It's largely been occuring to non-xians. >> >> That's like the fire department being an arsonist. >> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Your believing in satan implies you now believe in GOD. Your acknowldging my statement indicates you know you are worshipping satan. >> You really are wacky, Andrew. > > Your name-calling is forgiven as far as I am concerned. > > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love > unconditionally. Written love is closted gayness. > fully in satan's amazing grip, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ex-Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit > >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Rubbish. It's largely been occuring to non-xians. The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except as cited above. > >> They aren't HIS/HER/IT'S brethren, so he's doing the whole thing wrong. > > > > See above. > > Rubbish. It's largely been occuring to non-xians. See above. > >> >> That's like the fire department being an arsonist. > >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Your acknowldging my statement indicates you know you are worshipping satan. Actually, my compelling you to believe in GOD proves otherwise. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit >> >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except > as cited above. From what you say, if any people who have been afflicted are NOT xian, then that means if cannot be your jesus/god causing H5N1. Most of the H5N1 victims are Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese etc. Most are NOT xian, ergo you're prophesy of the "The Great Tribulation" is either nonsense, or you are consorting with Satan. >> >> They aren't HIS/HER/IT'S brethren, so he's doing the whole thing >> >> wrong. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > See above. You see above. >> >> >> That's like the fire department being an arsonist. >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Actually, my compelling you to believe in GOD proves otherwise. I deal with reality. You believe in supernatural beings. You believe one of your supernatural beings is causing people to die of a disease. You are a nut. > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Kurt whom I love > unconditionally. Written love is closeted gayness. > fully in delusion, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ex-Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit >> >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except > as cited above. So in a country where Christians are a very small minority, they were the ones who caught the bird flu? Wow. God must really hate you guys... SignatureMark K. Bilbo -------------------------------------------------- "As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans for everything bad that happened during and after Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people who lived here were much more prepared for a big storm than the federal government that promised us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry] http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC "Everything New Orleans" http://www.nola.com It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1156127028.696081.232030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: >> >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> >> >> So, the only way this "god" of yours can attract followers, is to >> >> >> create >> >> >> a >> >> >> catatrophe, then "save" peple from it? >> >> > No. >> >> Most of the people so far afflicted with H5N1 have been non-xians, >> >> probably >> >> never expoused to his "light". >> > In truth, the first cluster in Indonesia occurred in a Christian >> > village in a Christian family who had family members praying at the >> > bed-side daily for 3 months straight for the sole-survivor. By all >> > accounts, the survival of this young man is a miracle: >> > http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/15107685.htm?source=rss&channel= miamiherald_world Villages can't be Christian (that way lies magic, not reality); members of the population can be. I don't see where it says the people described in the story were Christian, and the words "pray" and "prayer" don't appear in the Miami Herald article at all. >> > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html This is mostly a verbatim copy of the MH story, with some additions. >The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except >as cited above. Ginting, the man at the heart of the story, consulted a traditional healer; the only person mentioned as praying is his mother, and she says she thanked God (after his recovery, obviously) and it is not clear from the wording that she prayed *prior to his recovery*. Here, too, you seem to be extending your interpretation beyond what is plainly written. There is really no [publicizing of] "the religious beliefs of the afflicted." SignatureDon Kirkman > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1156127028.696081.232030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Villages can't be Christian (that way lies magic, not reality); members > of the population can be. This particular village has been called Christian by the press in other earlier articles. > I don't see where it says the people > described in the story were Christian, and the words "pray" and "prayer" > don't appear in the Miami Herald article at all. They were described as being Christian by the press in other earlier articles. > >> > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html > > This is mostly a verbatim copy of the MH story, with some additions. But not verbatim as you have observed. > >The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except > >as cited above. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > she thanked God (after his recovery, obviously) and it is not clear from > the wording that she prayed *prior to his recovery*. The use of the word miracle is the key to understanding that the perspective is Christian. > Here, too, you seem to be extending your interpretation beyond what is > plainly written. There is really no [publicizing of] "the religious > beliefs of the afflicted." There are other earlier articles that describe the family members as Christian. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Don whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1156199182.713465.200050@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> article <1156127028.696081.232030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> >> >> Most of the people so far afflicted with H5N1 have been non-xians, >> >> >> probably >> >> >> never expoused to his "light". >> >> > In truth, the first cluster in Indonesia occurred in a Christian >> >> > village in a Christian family who had family members praying at the >> >> > bed-side daily for 3 months straight for the sole-survivor. By all >> >> > accounts, the survival of this young man is a miracle: >> >> > http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/15107685.htm?source=rss&channel= miamiherald_world >> Villages can't be Christian (that way lies magic, not reality); members >> of the population can be. >This particular village has been called Christian by the press in other ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >earlier articles. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> I don't see where it says the people >> described in the story were Christian, and the words "pray" and "prayer" >> don't appear in the Miami Herald article at all. >They were described as being Christian by the press in other earlier ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >articles. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html >> >The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >as cited above. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I'm sure others will see the contradiction in your statements about where this information was publicized; it'll be interesting to see if you acknowledge it. My money is on the negative. >> Ginting, the man at the heart of the story, consulted a traditional >> healer; the only person mentioned as praying is his mother, and she says >> she thanked God (after his recovery, obviously) and it is not clear from >> the wording that she prayed *prior to his recovery*. >The use of the word miracle is the key to understanding that the >perspective is Christian. Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, shamans don't have miracles? >> Here, too, you seem to be extending your interpretation beyond what is >> plainly written. There is really no [publicizing of] "the religious >> beliefs of the afflicted." >There are other earlier articles that describe the family members as >Christian. That is not what you said in your earlier post and repeated in this one (emphasis added).. SignatureDon Kirkman > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1156199182.713465.200050@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>: [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > where this information was publicized; it'll be interesting to see if > you acknowledge it. My money is on the negative. It is an error. There were many article to choose from with the primary focus on the miracle. Sorry about the error. Please forgive all my iniquities. > >> Ginting, the man at the heart of the story, consulted a traditional > >> healer; the only person mentioned as praying is his mother, and she says [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, shamans don't have miracles? They have not popularized the use of the word miracle. > >> Here, too, you seem to be extending your interpretation beyond what is > >> plainly written. There is really no [publicizing of] "the religious [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > That is not what you said in your earlier post and repeated in this one > (emphasis added).. It was an error. Though my LORD is perfect, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit is perfect, I am not. Please forgive all my iniquities. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Don whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1156209616.576386.276720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> article <1156199182.713465.200050@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>: >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> >> article <1156127028.696081.232030@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>: >> >> >> >> "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <love11@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> >> >> >> Most of the people so far afflicted with H5N1 have been non-xians, >> >> >> >> probably >> >> >> >> never expoused to his "light". >> >> >> > In truth, the first cluster in Indonesia occurred in a Christian >> >> >> > village in a Christian family who had family members praying at the >> >> >> > bed-side daily for 3 months straight for the sole-survivor. By all >> >> >> > accounts, the survival of this young man is a miracle: >> >> >> > http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/15107685.htm?source=rss&channel= miamiherald_world >> >> Villages can't be Christian (that way lies magic, not reality); members >> >> of the population can be. >> >This particular village has been called Christian by the press in other >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >earlier articles. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> I don't see where it says the people >> >> described in the story were Christian, and the words "pray" and "prayer" >> >> don't appear in the Miami Herald article at all. >> >They were described as being Christian by the press in other earlier >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >articles. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >> > http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0706/346741.html >> >> >The religious beliefs of the afflicted have not been publicized except >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> >> >as cited above. >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >> I'm sure others will see the contradiction in your statements about >> where this information was publicized; it'll be interesting to see if >> you acknowledge it. My money is on the negative. >It is an error. There were many article to choose from with the >primary focus on the miracle. It was an error to *say* the two you cited were the only ones; either that statement was untruthful or you statement that there were many to choose from is untruthful. If there were many to choose from it seems rather illogical to cite only two which do not support your assertions. Now let's see if you can come up with cites for those other "many" articles. SignatureDon Kirkman > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1156209616.576386.276720@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com>: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > It was an error to *say* the two you cited were the only ones; I did not write that the two articles were the only two online stories about the miracle. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear Don whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > > Not to the discerning. For example, those who can discern the difference between cows and rabbits? Biblegod believes that rabbits chew the cud. I'll repeat that so the breathtaking stupidity of it can sink in. GOD SAYS THAT RABBITS CHEW THE CUD. Thus spake the Lord: However, of those that chew the cud ... you may not eat the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. (Deut 14:7) Irrefutable, biblical proof that Biblegod is a bit dim. Of course, he might not be stupid. It might be that the Bible isn't His word at all, but the words of a bunch ignorant desert nomads writing in the late stone age. Oops sorry, I forgot. That's blasphemy. Stupid it is then. > > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > > > > Not to the discerning. > > For example, those who can discern the difference between cows and > rabbits? No. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No. No? Is that the best you can do in the face of YOUR god, and YOUR bible. "no" ?! LOL Is that "no I can't discern the difference between cows and rabbits"? or is that <sticks fingers in ears and screws eyes tightly shut> "No I'm not listening lalalalalalala I can't hear you lalalalalalala" ? Do you believe that rabbits chew the cud like your 'stupid' god tells you? I s'pose you have to, otherwise he'll damn you and curse you and revile you and punish you. What's the matter Andrew? Are you scared that you may lose the ability to lie to yourself if you keep exposing yourself to the ludicrous absurdities of your faith? "No"? LOL again Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: > Kurt Gavin wrote: > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > Not to the discerning. For example, those who can discern how many legs a grasshopper has. Biblegod believes that grasshoppers and crickets have 4 legs I'll repeat that so the breathtaking stupidity of it can sink in. GOD SAYS THAT GRASSHOPPERS HAVE 4 LEGS Thus spake the Lord: All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. (Lev 11:20-22) Irrefutable, biblical proof that Biblegod is a bit dim. Of course, Andrew can only respond 'no' to such claims by his god, because like his god, he prefers ignorance to knowledge. > Most assuredly without doubt, HE exists and every head will bow and > ever knee will bend acknowledging that HE is: I am not a slave. My knee will not bend. The god which demands the bended knee is evil. This is not love, it is coercion. It is evil. >> Andrew wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Because we will need HIS help. You need somebody's help. How long have you been drooling over the prospect of a pandemic now? Another one of your "predictions" that's never gone anywhere... SignatureMark K. Bilbo -------------------------------------------------- "As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans for everything bad that happened during and after Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people who lived here were much more prepared for a big storm than the federal government that promised us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry] http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC "Everything New Orleans" http://www.nola.com Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: > Kurt Gavin wrote: > > Well, then he's a rather stupid god. > Not to the discerning. For example, those who can discern the difference between cows and rabbits? Biblegod believes that rabbits chew the cud. I'll repeat that so the breathtaking stupidity of it can sink in. GOD SAYS THAT RABBITS CHEW THE CUD. Thus spake the Lord: However, of those that chew the cud ... you may not eat the rabbit or the coney. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a split hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. (Deut 14:7) Irrefutable, biblical proof that Biblegod is a bit dim. Of course, he might not be stupid. It might be that the Bible isn't His word at all, but the words of a bunch ignorant desert nomads writing in the late stone age. Oops sorry, I forgot. That's blasphemy. Stupid it is then. [piggybacking] > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love > > unconditionally. Are you suggesting to God what He should do? -- cary > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love > > > unconditionally. > > Are you suggesting to God what He should do? No. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > > > May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love > > > > unconditionally. > > Are you suggesting to God what He should do? > No. Then why did you say "May GOD help us all..." ? -- cary > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Then why did you say "May GOD help us all..." ? Asking GOD for help is not the same thing as suggesting to GOD what HE should do. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Asking GOD for help is not the same thing as suggesting to GOD what HE > should do. Why ask? If He's going to do it, your asking makes no difference. And if He was not, is your asking going to change His mind? And if you CAN get Him to change His mind, then what is the subtle difference between asking and suggesting? -- cary > > > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Why ask? Unconditional love. > If He's going to do it, your asking makes no difference. It makes a difference in how HE regards me. > And if He was not, is your asking going to change His mind? Possibly (Jonah 3:10, John 2:3-9). > And if you CAN get Him to change His mind, then what is the subtle > difference between asking and suggesting? A world of difference: HIS will be done and not mine. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Possibly (Jonah 3:10, John 2:3-9). A strange sort of God, who knows infinitely more than you do, yet Who doesn't choose the best of all possible actions for this global threat involving the lives and health of billions -- unless you ask Him to. Or alternatively, Who in fact had already chosen to best of all possible actions -- and then decided to do what you asked instead, because you asked. > > And if you CAN get Him to change His mind, then what is the subtle > > difference between asking and suggesting? > > A world of difference: > > HIS will be done and not mine. You have to ask him to to His will?... Curiouser and curiouser. > May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love > unconditionally. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > threat involving the lives and health of billions -- unless you > ask Him to. With GOD all things are possible (Matthew 19:29). > Or alternatively, Who in fact had already chosen to best of all > possible actions -- and then decided to do what you asked instead, > because you asked. HIS will be done and not mine. > > > And if you CAN get Him to change His mind, then what is the subtle > > > difference between asking and suggesting? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You have to ask him to to His will?... No. It remains my choice to ask HIM things through prayer. > Curiouser and curiouser. All thanks and praises to GOD for your interest. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > > > > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia > > > > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > With GOD all things are possible (Matthew 19:29). That's reassuring. However, it's also completely orthoginal to what I asked. > > Or alternatively, Who in fact had already chosen to best of all > > possible actions -- and then decided to do what you asked instead, > > because you asked. > > HIS will be done and not mine. What, you get a choice as to which will occur? > > > > And if you CAN get Him to change His mind, then what is the subtle > > > > difference between asking and suggesting? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No. It remains my choice to ask HIM things through prayer. Even though, as we have just exhaustively demonstrated, that is thoroughly illogical. OK. Just checking. -- cary Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: > HIS will be done and not mine. If "god" has a will, why bother to ask him for stuff? He's omniscient, isn't he? Doesn't that mean he knows what's going to happen to you, so isn't asking him to change his mind a waste of time? And if he is omniscient, he knows if I'm going to heaven or hell, therefore praying for me is futile, right? SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: > > > HIS will be done and not mine. > > If "god" has a will HE does. >, why bother to ask him for stuff? To glorify HIM. > He's omniscient, isn't he? HE is. > Doesn't that mean he knows what's going to happen to you, so > isn't asking him to change his mind a waste of time? HE knows what HE has planned for you. HE has given you HIS generous gift of free will. Through your free will, you can choose to surprise HIM as the people of Niniveh did when they all chose to repent (per the Book of Jonah) compelling HIM to change HIS mind about destroying them at the moment HE had originally planned. > And if he is omniscient HE is omniscient. >, he knows if I'm going to heaven or hell HE knows HIS plans for you. HIS plans are not static but dynamic covering **every** contingency and degree of freedom associated with countless number of souls each with their respective free wills. > , therefore praying for me is futile, right? No. You would no longer be here in this world if prayers on your behalf were futile. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >> (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > HE has given you HIS generous gift of free will. How can you reconcile two contradictory statements back to back, let alone in the same post? A god that knows all (past, present and future) knows the outcome of every event in the universe forever. There can be no free will, since I cannot change my mind and counter the god's plan. Sure, you can say it, and you probably will. The god knew I would change my mind, it was part of his plan. Like when PeeWee fell off his bike in that movie, and said "I meant to do that". > Through your free will, you can choose to surprise HIM as the people of > Niniveh did when they all chose to repent (per the Book of Jonah) > compelling HIM to change HIS mind about destroying them at the moment > HE had originally planned. A god that knows the outcome of every event in the universe throughout time cannot be surprised. It would be like watching the ballgame on Tivo after listening to it on the radio. If this part of the bible is true, it falsifies other parts of the bible. Like the commandment that says you must honor thy father and mother. Jesus said there are five such commandments that must be followed in order to get into heaven. But Jesus also said that to become his desciple one must hate their father and mother (among others). If both verses were true, it follows that Jesus' desciples cannot be allowed to enter heaven. >> And if he is omniscient > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > degree of freedom associated with countless number of souls each with > their respective free wills. This is just a bullshit rationalization filled with "must-be's" since the bible says nothing of the sort. Besides, nothing can be "countless" to an omniscient god. But let's talk about the implications of God's Plan, the one he knows so well. He knows the time and date of birth and death of every person who has lived or will live on this planet. It's in the bible. [Psalm 139:16] "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" If this is true, then: 1. God planned every abortion that has taken place on this planet. 2. God planned every murder that has taken place on this planet. 3. God planned every rape resulting in conception that has taken place on this planet. 4. There is no free will, and prayer is futile. >> , therefore praying for me is futile, right? > > No. You would no longer be here in this world if prayers on your behalf > were futile. You, sir, are wrong. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > How can you reconcile two contradictory statements back to back, let > alone in the same post? They are not contradictory for those with discerning hearts. > A god that knows all (past, present and future) > knows the outcome of every event in the universe forever. HE does despite HIS choice to generously give free will to all souls. > There can be > no free will, since I cannot change my mind and counter the god's plan. In truth, you can and have changed your mind even though you cannot change GOD's plan. Free will is not power though you may choose to covet the latter. Being powerless is not being without free will. Being locked up in jail does not cause a loss of free will despite a loss of freedom and power. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > They are not contradictory for those with discerning hearts. In other words, you don't have an answer for him. O that thou wouldest see your pomegranates wither, thou who art a byword for idiocy! -Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > In other words, you don't have an answer for him. Not one that you are able to understand, apparently. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Floyd whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Not one that you are able to understand, apparently. That's a laugh. You have constantly failed to show that you are capable of replying to a complicated rebuttal of your arguments. I begin to wonder if you are just simply incapable of understanding what you read. What's going on inside that pretty little head of yours, Andy? Do the words we write sound like the adults in a Peanuts cartoon? "Wah wah wah god wah wah wah and I wah you wah." Oh, yeah..almost forgot. May you become as popular as a boil on the king's backside, thou wolf in sheep's clothing! -Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html > > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > That's a laugh. Observing you fills me with sadness and not laughter. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Floyd whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Observing you fills me with sadness and not laughter. That's odd...because observing *you* fills me with laughter and not sadness. Wow, maybe we're really in parallel universes! -Panama Floyd, Atl. aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA! EAC Martian Commander "..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next." -Mark Twain Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones: http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet (panamfloyd@hotmail.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> Observing you fills me with sadness and not laughter. > > That's odd...because observing *you* fills me with laughter and not > sadness. Wow, maybe we're really in parallel universes! I doubt there are two parallel lines in EQ's universe. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Panama Floyd (panamaflyd@aol.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> > How can you reconcile two contradictory statements back to back, let >> > alone in the same post? >> >> They are not contradictory for those with discerning hearts. > > In other words, you don't have an answer for him. I wasted 30 minutes of my life typing that post in an attempt to educate him, and he snipped most of it! SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <nospam4@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message >> > HE knows what HE has planned for you. >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > HE does despite HIS choice to generously give free will to all souls. Contradictions in the bible and xian mal-logic strongly argue against anything like your jesus/god(s). However, you can win this argument merely by producing your jesus/god(s), and have them prove their existence and powers. If you can't do that - then you and christianity are just vulgar, destructive garbage. Well? Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> > HE knows what HE has planned for you. >> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > They are not contradictory for those with discerning hearts. They *are* contradictory by definition. If the outcome of all events is known by anyone, there is no free will. You've apparently re-defined "discerning hearts" to mean dysfunctional frontal lobes. >> A god that knows all (past, present and future) >> knows the outcome of every event in the universe forever. > > HE does despite HIS choice to generously give free will to all souls. You're spinning your wheels now, Earthquack. >> There can be >> no free will, since I cannot change my mind and counter the god's >> plan. > > In truth, you can and have changed your mind even though you cannot > change GOD's plan. In truth, I *am* able to change my mind, therefore there is no omniscient god. > Free will is not power though you may choose to covet the latter. > > Being powerless is not being without free will. > > Being locked up in jail does not cause a loss of free will despite a > loss of freedom and power. You need a new set of tires, Chungbot. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > They *are* contradictory by definition. Statements do not have definitions. > If the outcome of all events is known by anyone, there is no free will. Because it has been GOD's infinite will that souls receive HIS generous gift of free will, the outcomes of all events are not static. Indeed, GOD can change HIS mind about what HE has pre-planned at the very last moment as HE did in sparing the inhabitants of Nineveh as describe in the book of Jonah. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >> (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Statements do not have definitions. You of all people should be able to read between the lines. I was talking about the definitions of "omniscience" as it applies to the Christian god, and "free will". <snip re-iterated nonsense> SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. >> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >> (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >very last moment as HE did in sparing the inhabitants of Nineveh as >describe in the book of Jonah. To deny Him the ability to change His mind and will would be to deny Him His free will. Blessings, John > >> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > >> (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > To deny Him the ability to change His mind and will would be to deny > Him His free will. Yes, you and I both understand this to be biblical support for GOD's Own free will. Indeed, HE made us in HIS image and not the other way around. What is interesting is the inherent logical flaw that atheists have when they insist that GOD can not change HIS mind without losing omniscience and that we can't have free will because GOD would again lose HIS omniscience (IOW, omniscience is incompatible with free will). This seems to be arising from an irrational aversion to the thought that GOD does know everything while permitting us to exercise our free will in making mental choices by which we will be judged by HIM. May GOD continue to heal our hearts, dear brother John whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? >> >> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >> >> (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Yes, you and I both understand this to be biblical support for GOD's > Own free will. The blind leading the blind. Retards comparing notes..... <snip some nonsense> Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD (nospam13@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: >> To deny Him the ability to change His mind and will would be to deny >> Him His free will. > > Yes, you and I both understand this to be biblical support for GOD's > Own free will. What you don't understand is that free will cannot exist if there is a Divine Plan. You *want* the god to have free will. And you *want* the god to be omniscient. But the two attributes cannot co-exist in the same system. A reasonably intelligent person is able to make this determination. EQ, you must have some kind of reasonable intelligence, or at least *had* it. Either you refuse to think about what you believe, or you are unable to do so *because* of what you believe. > Indeed, HE made us in HIS image and not the other way around. He is male and white. He was invented by a male-dominant white society. The African voodoo gods are black. Native North American gods are brown, and the Greek gods are all white and beautiful. All gods are created by believers, and they tend to look like the believers, or at least what the believers would consider a formidable authoratative image. > What is interesting is the inherent logical flaw that atheists have > when they insist that GOD can not change HIS mind without losing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that GOD does know everything while permitting us to exercise our free > will in making mental choices by which we will be judged by HIM. What logical flaw is that, EQ? Name it. You guys are big on assertion, but never back them up with facts. So here is the reality of the situation. Nobody can know the future. Nobody. There are too many possibilities. If a god with a Divine Plan knew the future as we know the past, the future would be unalterable, just as the past is unalterable. A "divine plan" is like a history book in reverse. I can't make it any simpler for you. Either you refuse to think about what you believe, or you are unable to do so *because* of what you believe. I don't know why I waste my time responding to you. You don't learn anything. You snip my posts and turn my words against me. You're a robot for Jayzus, and you refuse to think for yourself. You're a waste of human DNA. On the bright side, you're a perfect example of the horrors of Christianity. SignatureUncle Vic aa Atheist #2011 Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department. Member: Intensional misspellingg club. > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > (nospa...@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: > >> To deny Him the ability to change His mind and will would be to deny > >> Him His free will. > > Yes, you and I both understand this to be biblical support for GOD's > > Own free will. > What you don't understand is that free will cannot exist if there is a > Divine Plan. Actually, free will can exist in thought only even when there is no actuation. For example, you could let your friends bury you up to your neck in sand at the beach so that you no longer can do anything. Though they will have taken away your freedom, they will not have taken away your free will. > You *want* the god to have free will. If GOD did not have free will, HE would not have been able to either change HIS mind as described in the book of Jonah nor would HE have been able to love us as described in the book of John. Therefore, it logically follows that GOD has free will. > And you *want* the > god to be omniscient. GOD is all knowing. At any given moment, HE knows all things. Moreover, HE has planned out the future allowing for n-degrees of freedom to accommodate the respective free wills of all the souls in the universe. > But the two attributes cannot co-exist in the same > system. With GOD all things are possible (Matthew 19:26). > A reasonably intelligent person is able to make this determination. A more intelligent person should be able to see that not only is it is possible for GOD to be omniscient and have free will, it is to be expected. Indeed, increasing amounts of knowledge toward omniscience increases the range of free will instead of limiting it. Mathematically, this means that as GOD's knowledge approaches infinity so too will HIS power and HIS free will. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Vic whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > very last moment as HE did in sparing the inhabitants of Nineveh as > describe in the book of Jonah. Which implies a lack of complete knowledge on his part -- if some new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He didn't forsee the new input, otherwise His final decision would not involve a change of plan. Of course, this is hardly surprising in a God who would -- drown virtually everything on Earth, and -- then regret having done so, saying basically "Hey, they can't help themselves". -- cary > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Which implies a lack of complete knowledge on his part Actually, it reveals that HIS knowledge about the future is as dynamic as the future. At any given moment, GOD knows all the permutations of what can happen in the future contingent on the choices that all souls make using their respective free wills. Because HE is sovereign, the actuation of these choices is entirely in HIS control per HIS infinite will. In this way, HE chooses to have things occur largely according to HIS plan. > -- if some > new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He > didn't forsee the new input Actually, situations don't change unless HE permits it. For this reason, the only things that potentially may be unexpected (thoughts made through free will are by definition unpredictable) are what we choose to think about. It is not how the folks in Nineveh acted but their repenting and turning their thoughts toward GOD that compelled HIM to change HIS mind. >, otherwise His final decision would > not involve a change of plan. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- then regret having done so, saying basically > "Hey, they can't help themselves". Yes. It is clear that GOD has free will too. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > will. In this way, HE chooses to have things occur largely according > to HIS plan. If He can trace all those possible paths beforehand, and knows which one will be realized, then there is no reason whatsoever for Him to have plan A at one point, and then switch to Plan B. There His omniscience must not be so omni- after all. > > -- if some > > new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > reason, the only things that potentially may be unexpected (thoughts > made through free will are by definition unpredictable) Then they are random? In any case, if they are "unpredictable" to Him, then again, His knowledge is less than complete. > are what we > choose to think about. It is not how the folks in Nineveh acted but > their repenting and turning their thoughts toward GOD that compelled > HIM to change HIS mind. And He didn't see that coming? If so, then He overlooked something. But if not, then He should have been intending mercy from the beginning. > >, otherwise His final decision would > > not involve a change of plan. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Yes. It is clear that GOD has free will too. Not to mention being a genocidal -- and zoocidal and phytocidal -- monster. Someone who would drown millions of people, and then decide that hadn't been such a good idea after all, doesn't appear to be omniscient even about his own future. -- cary > > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > for Him to have plan A at one point, and then switch to Plan B. > There His omniscience must not be so omni- after all. HIS knowledge is complete at any given moment. Thus, HE remains omniscient. > > > -- if some > > > new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Then they are random? No. They have purpose. > In any case, if they are "unpredictable" to > Him, then again, His knowledge is less than complete. HIS knowledge is complete at any given moment because HE knows all thoughts as they occur. > > are what we > > choose to think about. It is not how the folks in Nineveh acted but > > their repenting and turning their thoughts toward GOD that compelled > > HIM to change HIS mind. > > And He didn't see that coming? No. > If so, then He overlooked something. There was nothing to see until it happens. > But if not, then He should have been intending mercy from the beginning. Not according to what is written in the book of Jonah. > > >, otherwise His final decision would > > > not involve a change of plan. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > decide that hadn't been such a good idea after all, doesn't appear > to be omniscient even about his own future. HE has every right to unmake anything HE has made. HE is LORD GOD Almighty, Sovereign over all existence. Indeed, most assuredly without doubt, I know HIM to be kind, just, and right. Laus Deo ! Marana tha ! May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD > > > > > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Thus, HE remains omniscient. So you're saying that He knows all the past and present... but not the future? I don't think that qualifies as omniscience. > > > > -- if some > > > > new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > HIS knowledge is complete at any given moment because HE knows all > thoughts as they occur. Again you're saying that He knows all the past and present... but not the future? That would explain an awful lot. > > > are what we > > > choose to think about. It is not how the folks in Nineveh acted but [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No. Oh, then He does know the future then? > > If so, then He overlooked something. > > There was nothing to see until it happens. Ah, so now we're back to His being unable to see what will come to pass? > > But if not, then He should have been intending mercy from the beginning. > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > HE has every right to unmake anything HE has made. Drowning six month old babies is drowning six month old babies; I'm startled that any doctor would try to justify such a thing. > HE is LORD GOD Almighty, Sovereign over all existence. > > Indeed, most assuredly without doubt, I know HIM to be kind, just, and > right. The bobbing corpses of nearly all the people of the world -- men, women, babies, infants, the unborn in their wombs -- suggest otherwise. > Laus Deo ! > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > Andrew wrote: > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > So you're saying that He knows all the past and present... Correct. > but not the future? HE knows infinitely better than anyone else what is in the future because HE made the master plan for the future. > I don't think that qualifies as omniscience. It does for me. When you are a passenger on an airplane, you place your life in the hands of someone who knows far less about past and present and nothing about the future. > > > > > -- if some > > > > > new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Again you're saying that He knows all the past and present... but > not the future? See above. > That would explain an awful lot. It explains how important it is to seek out HIS infinite will through prayer so that being in HIS will, you will be assured that you will be in the future HE has planned. > > > > are what we > > > > choose to think about. It is not how the folks in Nineveh acted but [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Oh, then He does know the future then? HE should... HE made the master plan for the future. > > > If so, then He overlooked something. > > > > There was nothing to see until it happens. > > Ah, so now we're back to His being unable to see what will come to pass? Not as far as our thoughts arising out of our respective free wills. Again, it is HIS infinite will that we have our respective free wills. > > > But if not, then He should have been intending mercy from the beginning. > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Drowning six month old babies is drowning six month old babies; > I'm startled that any doctor would try to justify such a thing. Children are automatically admitted into HIS kingdom so they do not die even when they depart from this world as children. "Do not keep the children from ME. GOD's kingdom belongs to such as these." -- LORD Jesus Christ. > > HE is LORD GOD Almighty, Sovereign over all existence. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The bobbing corpses of nearly all the people of the world -- men, > women, babies, infants, the unborn in their wombs -- suggest otherwise. Shows how little you know. May GOD keep healing your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Andrew wrote: > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > HE knows infinitely better than anyone else what is in the future > because HE made the master plan for the future. "better than anyone"... but not completely; do I understand what you are saying? Not completely, because if He did completely know the future, then we woud not have free will? Sorry, that's too cluttered a sentence; allow me to simplify. Kindly check one: __ God knows everything that will happen. __ God does not know everything that will happen. -- cary > > > Andrew wrote: > > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > "better than anyone"... **infinitely** better > but not completely; Knowing infinitely better than anyone else is knowing completely. > do I understand what > you are saying? Apparently not. > Not completely, because if He did completely > know the future, then we woud not have free will? It remains HIS infinite will that all souls have HIS generous gift of free will. > Sorry, that's too cluttered a sentence; allow me to simplify. Kindly > check one: > > __ God knows everything that will happen. > > __ God does not know everything that will happen. _X_ GOD has made the master plan for the future. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Andrew wrote: > > > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > > Knowing infinitely better than anyone else is knowing completely. Ah. So then God did "completely know" that the people of Nineveh were going to change their minds -- and yet His initial plan did not take such knowledge into account, leading to His "repenting" of His initial intent. Very curious. -- cary > Andrew wrote: > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > Ah. Yes. > So then God did "completely know" that the people of Nineveh > were going to change their minds HE knew it was possible because HE gave them free will **and** planned beforehand to have Jonah inform them of HIS plan to destroy them for sinning against HIM. > -- and yet His initial plan > did not take such knowledge into account, leading to His > "repenting" of His initial intent. No. See above. > Very curious. People have the most difficulty understanding what they are unable to do. GOD is merciful. Most people like you are not. GOD is loving. Most people like Randy (Pulpitfire) are not. May GOD continue you heal your heart along with Randy's, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Andrew wrote: > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > HE knew it was possible Ah: so He did not know it with certainty. Your interminable flip-flopping on this seems rather likely to leave our faithful readers with a more negative impression of Christians than most of them warrant. I'd suggest a simple "It's a mystery to me" would be far less likely to make the casual reader wonder "Is THIS your brain on Christianity?". -- cary > Andrew wrote: > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > Ah: so He did not know it with certainty. HIS choice to not know beforehand what our choices will be via HIS choice to give us free will. > Your interminable flip-flopping on this seems rather likely to leave > our faithful readers with a more negative impression of Christians > than most of them warrant. In truth, the faithful readers see only your flip-flopping. > I'd suggest a simple "It's a mystery > to me" would be far less likely to make the casual reader wonder > "Is THIS your brain on Christianity?". Without the LORD, your opinion is meaningless (Ecclesiastes). May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > -- cary > > Andrew wrote: > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > HIS choice to not know beforehand what our choices will be via HIS > choice to give us free will. Well, I do at last think I get where you're heading with this: God chose not to be omniscient. OK. Fair enough. And rather creative, too. -- cary >> > Andrew wrote: >> > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > >OK. Fair enough. And rather creative, too. When you read a mystery novel, do you just flip to the last page and read the ending before starting? Well, some do, I suppose, but most don't. But they all can if their free will decision is to do it that way. Or they can refrain and enjoy the unfolding of the story. And so it is God's choice whether or not to read the story out of order. But, He is the author so He actually does know the ending but it is probably more interesting for Him to let the story unfold. Blessings, John > Andrew wote: > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > Well, I do at last think I get where you're heading with this: > God chose not to be omniscient. No. HE remains all-knowing, which is omniscience. This would be like Bill Gates giving you $100.00. Mr. Gates would still be a multi-billionaire despite his generosity. GOD is still omniscient despite HIS generous gift of free will to all souls. > OK. Fair enough. And rather creative, too. All praise belongs to GOD, my Creator, Whom I love with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > Andrew wote: > > > > Andrew wrote: {...} > > > > > > So then God did "completely know" that the people of Nineveh > > > > > > were going to change their minds [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > No. HE remains all-knowing, which is omniscience. If He truly does "not know beforehand what our choices will be", then He is clearly not omniscient. -- cary > > > Andrew wote: > > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > If He truly does "not know beforehand what our choices will be", then > He is clearly not omniscient. GOD knows all that is knowable making HIM by definition omniscient. As for knowing the future, HE knows because HE has planned the future. As for knowing what our thoughts are, HE knows because HE is clairvoyant. As for knowing what our thoughts will be, it remains HIS infinite will that we retain the free will generously given by HIM. Most assuredly without doubt, the actuation of our thoughts is controlled by HIM. We sin in thought before the act and even when there is no act. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > > > > Andrew wote: > > > > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > GOD knows all that is knowable making HIM by definition omniscient. So: some things are not "knowable" even by God? -- cary > Andrew wrote: > > > Andrew wrote: [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > So: some things are not "knowable" even by God? Incorrect. GOD can take away our free will anytime HE chooses making HIM able to know all our future thoughts. In the interim, it is GOD's infinite will that all souls retain HIS generous gift of free will. May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear neighbor Cary whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? >> > > Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >> > > (nospam4@heartmdphd.com) made the light shine upon us with this: [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >will. In this way, HE chooses to have things occur largely according >to HIS plan. I know all of the permutation of possible outcomes in a hand of blackjack. Does this make me knowledgeable about any hands outcome besides knowing that no one will be holding five aces? >> -- if some >> new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >their repenting and turning their thoughts toward GOD that compelled >HIM to change HIS mind. Repenting thier sinful ways is not a mind execercise. >>, otherwise His final decision would >> not involve a change of plan. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Yes. It is clear that GOD has free will too. And regrets as well ? >May GOD continue to heal your heart, dear Cary whom I love >unconditionally. If you truly loved Cary or any of us you would seek out some help for your psychosis. Love is shown by action not words. You cannot help anyone until you escape from this demon haunted world you have created around yourself. Reality is so much richer and fulfilling than fatasy. I had a friend who killed a family drunk driving. The only way he could live with himself is to believe that a god had a plan for him that somehow required him to learn a lesson at the expense of nice family. Have you done something that you cannot bear to live with as well? Forgive yourself; you are just a clever monkey that has screwed up, no worst than the rest of us. Come back to sanity, we will welcome you with open hearts. >Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, > >Andrew <>< Marveling in this amazing universe of real things wondering why we need to make up stuff when the universe is so splendid as it is. > Andrew wrote: > >> Andrew: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > blackjack. Does this make me knowledgeable about any hands outcome > besides knowing that no one will be holding five aces? No, because you do not control how the order of the cards will be rearranged with shuffling. GOD, however, does control all things including that which the world believes to be random (Proverbs 16:33). For this reason, HE remains omniscient despite HIS choice in HIS infinite will that we retain HIS generous gift of free will. May GOD keep your heart beating, dear neighbor whom I love unconditionally. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17). http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/d3b7b57d0fbf89ed? > >> -- if some > >> new situation changes what He had been about to do, then obviously He [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Marveling in this amazing universe of real things wondering why we > need to make up stuff when the universe is so splendid as it is. > http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/healthfluindonesia To answer the header, no, this is clearly not the species jump forecast by evolutionary science to be highly probable. > May GOD help us all, dear brethren and neighbors whom I love > unconditionally. You pray, I'll think. > Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, > > Andrew http://impressive.net/people/gerald/2001/11/04/14-06-16-med.jpg Like Andrew, I'm only saying it COULD happen... Thus, of course, "destroying all forms of matter and energy, materials, beings and illusions". ... but if it doesn't happen, just remember I said "possible"... -- cary |
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