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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / June 2006migraine, blood pressure, maybe cholesterol fixed but theres a small problem
I am a caucasion male 50 years old. I had a dr.'s checkup and lab tests one month ago that showed the following problems: blood pressure 150/90 - high ldl cholesterol 240 (hdl was 40) - very high weight 195 at 5'11" - doughy and also i have been taking medications for a quite a while for migraine (maxalt and lately relpax) So the dr. suggested that we treat the blood pressure and cholesterol aggressively because the cholesterol was at a frightening level and these treatements have been known to put the migraines into remission so now, for the last month, I am taking Hydrochlorothiazide 25 - 1 per day Vytorin 10/20 - 1 per day after one month blood pressure 90/60 - normal! ldl cholesterol - not measured yet weight 188 - slightly better no migraines! (normally I would have had at least six with two of them very bad) I feel very, very good now - almost high all the time - occationally i feel a tiny pain almost wanting to start on the side of my head only to dissapear in a few seconds. Also I have very entertaining dreams now which are more interesting than anything on cable TV. Miracles of science! But all is not 100% good. My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these pills I became 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis I have right now ---- pfffffft => nothing ever and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I would like to know how to get my erections back but not my blood pressure or migraines. Are these drugs going to cause a perpetually limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! > I am a caucasion male 50 years old. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent > erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! I'd suggest playing with this. Put in you numbers and lower and higher numbers. Risk....? http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease-risk/HB00047 Please note that a hard penis seems to relate to heart health. Arteries are arteries still a heads up for your total health AKA life.. I don't give a darn about cholesterol yet I try to get HDL up. Exercise and Niacin for my adventure seem intelligent for me. As for BP talk to your doc about diuretic options. Bill  SignatureS Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. William Wagner schrieb: [...] > I'd suggest playing with this. Put in you numbers and lower and > higher numbers. > > Risk....? > > http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-disease-risk/HB00047 This gives some odd results. I always thought that being male was a risk factor for heart disease. However, with this risk calculator you get a considerably higher risk for females then for males if both have the same other values. Could it be that they made an error and switched male and female? Or are females only protected against heart disease because they usually have better risk factors? Thorsten Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in part: >William Wagner schrieb: >[...] [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Thorsten What age did you enter? -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA Jim Chinnis schrieb: > Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > What age did you enter? Different ages. I always get higher risk values for females than for males. Thorsten > Jim Chinnis schrieb: > > Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in part: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Thorsten Yea but we only have one age. But those blood numbers can vary and my point was risk is not impacted by those numbers in a linear way based on this here info. Interesting and I wonder if we will ever see handsome people speak of this on mass media. Down with the bad and up with the good. So simplistic. There may be copyright with this nonsense. Bill SignatureS Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit. Thorsten Schier <Finrod_Felagund@gmx.de> wrote in news:e7f6dp$irv$01$1 @news.t-online.com: <snip> > This gives some odd results. I always thought that being male was a risk > factor for heart disease. However, with this risk calculator you get a > considerably higher risk for females then for males if both have the > same other values. Could it be that they made an error and switched male > and female? Or are females only protected against heart disease because > they usually have better risk factors? Pre-menopause most women have lower heart disease risk but after menopause that benefit disappears rapidly. Also, women tend to be more pro-active on getting regular checkups and keeping their weight down. (However, those women who got into yo-yo dieting will have worse numbers IIRC.) Cindy Wells (whose maternal line now has heart disease and stroke on both sides to go with the migraines (on grandma's side) and TIAs (on grandpa's side); my paternal line disease risks are harder to a.ses - biological grandfather died in the military and grandma didn't go to the doctor for diagnoses in her later years.) > Thorsten > I'd suggest playing with this. Put in you numbers and lower and > higher numbers. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Bill It seems from that calculator that my cholesterol is far more of a problem than the blood pressure. It seem the consensus here is that it's the BP medicine that is causing my problems. >>I don't give a darn about cholesterol yet I try to get HDL up. >>Exercise and Niacin for my adventure seem intelligent for me. If you use Niacin, be sure that your doctor follows up with testing. Also, use traditional Niacin, which may be hard to find, instead of the "no flush" and "timed release" versions which don't work as well and cause stomach problems on many people. Ignore pen name, I'm 66 year old Caucasian male. For me: Control (no prescription medication): Tri: 155 Total C: 274 HDL: 42 LDL: 201 VLDL: 31 2G total of Niacin daily (no other changes): Tri: 100 Total C: 220 HDL: 62 LDL: 138 VLDL: 20 >> As for BP talk to your doc about diuretic options. > It seem the consensus here is that it's the BP medicine that is causing > my problems. I would talk to your doctor about what his intended blood pressure range is for you. You may be one of those people who's blood pressure jumps when they are in the doctor's office and you are being over medicated. I'd suggest that you get a home blood pressure testing kit and test yourself at home, and bring that testing kit in with you to the doctor next time and compare readings in the doctor's office. Most "water pill" type of blood pressure medicines can cause impotence, but your body should adjust within a month or two to the new pressure levels and the impotence may go away. Ignatz's Bricks Napoleon says... > My one dissatisfaction: After a couple days on these > pills I became 100% impotent! That is one sad sack penis > I have right now ---- pfffffft => nothing ever and it > doesn't seem to be getting any better. > I would like to know how to get my erections back but > not my blood pressure or migraines. Are these drugs > going to cause a perpetually limp member? Any ideas? If > I can just occasionally get a decent erection and > maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are notorious for causing impotence, as are beta blockers. I suggest you tell your doctor about the impotence, and ask him to switch your blood pressure med to one of the classes that is less likely to cause a problem - an ace inhibitor, angiotensin receptor blocker, or calcium channel blocker. I don't know what effect such a change would imply for your migranes. Also, your blood pressure doesn't have to be 90/60. That's actually a good bit below normal. For both of your meds, there are lots of alternatives. You just may need to try a number of them to get the results you want without unacceptable side effects. But that will require you to keep the pressure on your doctor. In my experience, your doctor won't mind that you're impotent unless you make an issue of it. So you will have to put your foot down on this one. > I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are > notorious for causing impotence, as are beta blockers. I > suggest you tell your doctor about the impotence, and ask > him to switch your blood pressure med to one of the classes > that is less likely to cause a problem - an ace inhibitor, > angiotensin receptor blocker, or calcium channel blocker. As I read through the thread, I see Peabody beat me to this. I discussed this in the long past with my Dr., and as he assisted greatly in my approach to cure ED, I had said to him..."NO Thiazides or Beta Blockers". He was most agreeable and sympathetic and we fought my hypertension as a team until back in the 120/80 normal range. Used an AT2 blocker and a Calcium Channel blocker. > As I read through the thread, I see Peabody beat me to this. I discussed > this in the long past with my Dr., and as he assisted greatly in my approach [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Used an AT2 blocker and a Calcium Channel blocker. There are several responses now all pointing the finger of accusation at the hydrochlorothiazide (not the vytorin) which makes me happy because it seems there are several options for lowering blood pressure. > Napoleon says... > I don't know about the Vytorin, but thiazide diuretics are [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > unless you make an issue of it. So you will have to put > your foot down on this one Thanks, further confimation that its the BP medication. I think I'm also going to try the weight loss approach along with asking about less harsh medication in the mean time. I hope the problem isn't the Vytorin because I'm pretty worried I won't be able to lower it enough just by losing weight. > I am a caucasion male 50 years old. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent > erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! Would suggest two things: (1) Lose weight. For many impotence goes away with becoming leaner and trimmer (and hungrier <-- healthy appetite). Would suggest you ask your doctor to supervise your use of the 2PD-OMER Approach: http://HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp (2) Inform your doctor about your impotence. There are medications that should help until you become healthier, more fit, leaner and trimmer when you may not need these medications anymore. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife > Would suggest two things: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Andrew > http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife That gives me hope I can help with some weight loss. You 2 lb of food a day diet looks interesting and the ultimate in simplicity, but if I'm going to be very happy on it those 2# it will have to be something like Chocolate Fudge Haagan-Daz. (Not seriously of course, but I calculate the calories would still only come to about 2000 per day which by past experience I know is easily low enough for me to lose weight with.) > > Would suggest two things: > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > which by past experience I know is easily low enough for me to lose > weight with.) It is unlikely your doctor will like the idea of your being on a Ice Cream diet dovetailed with the 2PD-OMER Approach. Instead, less of everything across the board without changing **what** you are eating except as your doctor advises you as s/he supervises you. Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love, Andrew B. Chung Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA http://HeartMDPhD.com/TheLife 90/60 for BP is a little "better" than normal. But I don't think it has anything to do with your impotence. gPeter "Napoleon" <napoleon_mmvi@yahoo.com> az alábbiakat írta a következo hírüzenetben: 1151004255.513562.287380@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... >I am a caucasion male 50 years old. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent > erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! > 90/60 for BP is a little "better" than normal. But I don't think it has > anything to do with your impotence. > gPeter I wouldn't think so either because I've always believed that impotence increased with increasing blood pressure not the other way around. > I am a caucasion male 50 years old. > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent > erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! Hi Napoleon Unfortunately for you impotence is quite common. I suggest that you read the book "The Cure of High Blood Pressure by Respiratory Exercises" written mid-last century, and now available as an e-book on www.cureofhighbloodpressure.com, and practice some of the techniques suggested (with your Doctors knowledge of course!). Hope this helps, Good Health! Comax They actually sell a device called Resperate for around 300$ that trains you to breath slowly. It's been proven effective. Andrew Weil (the alternative medicine MD from Tucson is always mentioning it.) I sent away for literature on it for my husband, and it's a reasonable device, although somewhat overpriced--but if you compare the price of meds and the price of experiencing side effects, I suppose it's worth it. Sometimes it really helps to have an actual device to force you to practice slow breathing. http://www.resperate.com/?Ls=J&lk=1 One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult. Judy > > I am a caucasion male 50 years old. > > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Comax : One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as : 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult. Any reference for that? SignatureJuhana Tne National Heart Lung and Blood Institute publishes guidelines for treatment of blood pressure: they call them JNC (Joint National Committee): the most recent is JNC 7. Here's the web site with a free download of the documents: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/hypertension/ In the "old" days, we accepted 140/90 as borderline HTN, now there's a new ideal of 120/80, yet studies show that to achieve that level, in Western societies, as we age, most people will require medication. JNC is a "moving target" as they're always updating their data and recommendations, but they base in on the levels of blood pressure and bad outcomes--stroke, heart attacks. For years we wanted diabetics at 120/80, now it's the ideal for everyone. Judy > : One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as > : 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult. > > Any reference for that? ::: One final comment: the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined ::: as 120/80. 90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult. :: :: Any reference for that? : Tne National Heart Lung and Blood Institute publishes guidelines for : treatment of blood pressure: they call them JNC (Joint National [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : For years we wanted diabetics at 120/80, now it's the ideal for : everyone. I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be better than 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg." SignatureJuhana > : In the "old" days, we accepted 140/90 as borderline HTN, now there's a > : new ideal of 120/80, yet studies show that to achieve that level, in [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 90/60. The references state that "beginning at 115/75 mm Hg, CVD risk > doubles for each increment of 20/10 mm Hg." I don't think she is saying that 120/80 wouild be better than 90/60. She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90 (the "old" standard). Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for that individual). Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor totally pooh-poohs this being a problem at all, despite the fact that for years, my mother has been yelling at me to "talk to the doctor about your blood pressure, it's too low." (My doctor quietly tells me not to pay any attention to my mother.) I am also quite certain that low blood pressure does not contribute in any way to my migraines... although a few times, when I've sought treatment in the emergency room because my migraine was out of control, it was noted that my blood pressure at those times is sometimes as low as 80/50. (I noted on one emergency room admission sheet that they diagnosed me with "migraine" and "syncope." I did NOT faint, but I suppose I probably looked like I might. Of course, that could have as easily been the migraine or all the medications I had taken.) Regards, Arlene :: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be :: better than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : She is saying that 120/80 (the "new" standard) is better than 140/90 : (the "old" standard). She said that the "ideal" blood pressure is currently defined as 120/80 and that "90/60 is actually quite low, especially for an adult." : Low blood pressure, as far as I know, is not : bad (unless it drops way too low, I guess, and it's not the norm for : that individual). I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references to back her claim. : Mine normally runs around 90/60, and my doctor : totally pooh-poohs this being a problem at all, despite the fact that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : : Arlene SignatureJuhana The reference deals with high blood pressure. Low blood pressure is an issue: it has been implicated in syndromes like chronic fatigue, and if a patient can not maintain their blood pressure with changes in position--orthostatic hypotension--they are at risk for dizziness or at worse, fainting. Tilt table testing is used to formally diagnose orthostatic hypotension. I was at a recent lecture on blood pressure, and the cardiologist stated that with older people who have "stiffer" blood vessels, rapid lowering of blood pressure may cause them to not be able to maintain adequate circulation. So, you want me to justify what qualifies as hypotension. Blood pressure norms vary by age: there are tables for children. After 18 the normal blood pressures are defined by the article I cited. Symptomatic hypotension is a completely different subject than guidelines for treating high blood pressure. Again, I've read recent articles that are implicating orthostatic hypotension in chronic fatigue, and clearly some patients tolerate lower blood pressures, but older patients frequently do not--they stand up and faint. If it's not that severe, they might just feel fatigued and ligthheaded. I just peeked at pubmed, and although many articles implicate low blood pressure in chronic fatigue, a recent article showed that many people drop their pressure on the tilt table without symtpoms. So, it's controversial. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=16378795&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum The bottom line, for me, is that if you are lowering someone's blood pressure by medications, you need to be careful, as they have become used to a higher pressure, and many do have symptoms with too rapid lowering and too low of a blood pressure. Here's an article on blood pressure lowering and orthostatic hypotension http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=1 6685202&itool=pubmed_abstractplus&dopt=abstract&dr=abstract Is that enough evidence? Judy > :: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be > :: better than [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > : > : Arlene "I know that low blood pressure is not bad unless it causes dizziness or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some references to back her claim." How do you know this to be true? Low blood pressure can be a serioous problem in certain situations. Judy > :: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be > :: better than [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > : > : Arlene :::: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be :::: better than [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] :: or fainting. That is the reason I was asking her to post some :: references to back her claim. : How do you know this to be true? Dr. John P. Cooke, who is the head of Stanford Medical School's vascular unit, states it clearly in his book /The Cardiovascular Cure/ (Broadway Books, 2003, p. 6): "In my opinion, the lower your blood pressure, the better. Obviously, if your blood pressure is too low, you will faint. But I tell my patients that their blood pressure should be just high enough to keep them from falling over. Even if your blood pressure is as low as 90/60 but you can stand without trouble, this is healthy and, in the long run, better for your heart and vessels." http://tinyurl.com/oo7py SignatureJuhana "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: >:::: I did not find any reference for your claim that 120/80 would be >:::: better than [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > >http://tinyurl.com/oo7py Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern: http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle.do?primaryKey=715681&nl_id=tho20jun06 -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA : "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: :::: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] : : http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle.do?primaryKey=715681&nl_id=tho20jun06 Thanks for a a good posting! It seems that Dr. Cooke is not well informed in this respect. SignatureJuhana "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: >: Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern: >: >: http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle.do?primaryKey=715681&nl_id=tho20jun06 > >Thanks for a a good posting! It seems that Dr. Cooke is not well informed in >this respect. He was probably well-informed at the time of writing, which could have anywhere between about 2000 and 2002... -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> > Actually, low blood pressure without fainting is a concern: > > http://www.theheart.org/viewArticle.do?primaryKey=715681&nl_id=tho20jun06 > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA As a person with normally very low blood pressure, I'm naturally very interested in this topic. This article does NOT say that low blood pressure is a concern... it says only that it is a concern in patients with corony heart disease (CHD)! And, they are talking about patients with HBP whose blood pressure is being lowered with medication, and how to maintain the balance between dyastolic and systolic without lowering one or the other too much. I would imagine, as Judy said previously, that it is a problem in some situations, but not always. If you faint or pass out or have chronic fatigue, that is a problem. If your blood pressure is normally higher, and then suddenly drops... that is a problem that needs to be looked into. If you are on blood pressure medication and your blood pressure takes a nosedive from very high to too low, that is a problem and your medication probably needs to be adjusted. If you have no symptoms and feel fine and have always had low blood pressure, that is NOT a problem. Regards, Arlene : "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> :: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] : have no symptoms and feel fine and have always had low blood : pressure, that is NOT a problem. In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards associated with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by isolated systolic blood pressure: Am J Cardiol. 2004 Aug 1;94(3):380-4. A likely explanation for the J-curve of blood pressure cardiovascular risk. Kannel WB, Wilson PW, Nam BH, D'Agostino RB, Li J. Boston University School of Medicine/Framingham Heart Study, Framingham, Massachusetts 01702-5827, USA. We prospectively tested in the combined original and offspring Framingham cohorts the hypothesis that the increase in cardiovascular disease (CVD) incidence at low diastolic blood pressure (BP) is largely confined to subjects with increased systolic BP and hence an increased pulse pressure. The 10-year risk of 951 nonfatal CVD events and 204 CVD deaths was estimated at diastolic pressures of <80, 80 to 90, and > or =90 mm Hg, according to concomitant systolic BP. An increasing tendency for a J-curve relation of CVD incidence to diastolic BP was observed with successive increments in accompanying systolic BP. In both genders, a statistically significant excess of CVD events was observed at a diastolic BP of <80 mm Hg only when accompanied by a systolic BP of >140 mm Hg that persisted after adjustment for age and associated CVD risk factors. Patients with this condition of isolated systolic hypertension have been shown to benefit from antihypertensive treatment. PMID: 15276113 http://tinyurl.com/g5gwc SignatureJuhana "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: >In the abstract below it is explained that the possible hazards associated >with low diastolic blood pressure are probably caused by isolated systolic >blood pressure: There seem to be at least two hypotheses. One has to do with pulse pressure, which is often high in *treated* hypertension and in isolated systolic hypertension. The other concerns the low diastolic pressure, which may hamper perfusion of heart muscle, particularly where coronary artery disease is present. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA : "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : pressure, which may hamper perfusion of heart muscle, particularly : where coronary artery disease is present. It is also known that the outcome of drug treated hypertension is not as good as hypertension treated by diet. To my knowledge pulse pressure is associated with arterial stiffness which in turn is mostly caused by impared endothelial function. Do you think that my reasoning correct if I think that pulse pressure (or isolated blood pressure) could be treated by enhancing endothelial function by fish oils, dietary arginine, phytochemicals and glycemic control? SignatureJuhana "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: >: "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: >: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >pressure) could be treated by enhancing endothelial function by fish oils, >dietary arginine, phytochemicals and glycemic control? I don't think I know enough to really comment. If the problems of low diastolic pressure or high pulse pressure are due to poor perfusion of the heart muscle, I don't know if improved endothelial function would make a sufficient differece to resolve it or not. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA "kol_Isha" <kol_isha@hotmail.com> wrote in part: >"Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >Arlene I don't disagree with you. But I'd say this is an area that is not well-understood. (Like most.) -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > "Jim Chinnis" <jchinnis@SPAMalum.mit.edu> >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Arlene There is also a correlation between low diastolic and dementia/Alzheimer's. Before anyone gets uptight, notice I said correlation and not causation. From what I understand there is not enough data to say whether low diastolic causes dementia/Alzheimer's or whether impending dementia/Alzheimer's causes low diastolic. The only mechanism suggested is that low diastolic results in reduced perfusion in the brain and reduced perfusion may result in dementia/Alzheimer's. Jay Thanks for the excellent article: very up to date and complete. If we go back to Napoleon's original concerns: his blood pressure was fairly dramatically lowered. If we run his Framingham risk, and we don't have all the details to do so, it would likely suggest an LDL goal of 100 or 130 depending on the 10 year risk. The bottom line is, he has some risk for atherosclerosis, his blood pressure was lowered fairly dramatically in a short period of time, and he suffered side effects: likely due to med side effects and possibly due to the blood pressure lowering. He's likely a person where 90/60 is too low of a blood pressure. We have been arguing if there is a level of blood pressure that is too low, and obviously there is: it is of most concern if you have heart and/or kidney disease, or are symptomatic with it. This is a migraine forum. Migraine can cause autonomic dysfunction, some of that may be reflected in some dysregulation of blood pressure--which is the likely mechanism for the success of calcium channel blockers, beta blockers, ACE inhibitor and ARB's for the prophylaxis of migraine. As Arlene as written several times, if you are healthy and tolerate your relatively low blood pressure without symptoms, then it's not a cause for concern. Judy > "Juhana Harju" <shantigiriorama@gmail.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > -- > Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA > Thanks for the excellent article: very up to date and complete. > If we go back to Napoleon's original concerns: his blood pressure was [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >>-- >>Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA <snip> > The bottom line is, he has some risk for atherosclerosis, his blood > pressure was lowered fairly dramatically in a short period of time, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cause for concern. > Judy <snip> My understanding is that healthy blood pressure is also a factor of height, weight and gender. However, a patient may be uncomfortable with their bp and should discuss it with their doc - particularly if undesirable side effects are present (Quality of life matters - and the doc isn't the one who has to deal with it). Similarly, a doctor might be unhappy with a patient having too low a bp and want to change the meds. Cindy Wells (who had the latter with Calan (for migraine prophylaxis) starting with a normal bp. My doc tested my bp standing, sitting and lying down and questioned why I wasn't coming into the clinic with bruises from falling when I got up in the morning. Thus we tried the next med in the list the neuro had made of things to try to break the frequency/ severity routine.) : I am a caucasion male 50 years old. : [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] : limp member? Any ideas? If I can just occasionally get a decent : erection and maintain my other benefits ...what a utopia! Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse effects. In an Israeli study below drinking pomegranate juice daily reduced systolic blood pressure by 21 mmHg (not 21% as the abstract mistakenly states). That would be enough in your case. Besides lowering blood pressure the juice would also improve your antioxidant status considerably. http://www.pomwonderful.com/pdf/clinical_nutrition.pdf SignatureJuhana > Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure > lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse effects. In [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://www.pomwonderful.com/pdf/clinical_nutrition.pdf I don't have high blood pressure, but I take 4 ounces of Pomegranate juice twice a day for impotence problems, and one side effect that I noticed was that it lowered my blood pressure by about 10 mmHg Systolic and by about 05 mmHg Diastolic. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15947695&query_hl=4 For the record: These guys really ought to proofread more carefully, too. The full text version of the Journal of Urology article has a typo in the formula for finding the Body Mass Index. IB :: Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure :: lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : noticed was that it lowered my blood pressure by about 10 mmHg : Systolic and by about 05 mmHg Diastolic. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=15947695&query_hl=4 Thanks for your posting! I had not thought about this kind of use of pomegranate juice. I had not seen the study either. : For the record: : These guys really ought to proofread more carefully, too. The full : text version of the Journal of Urology article has a typo in the : formula for finding the Body Mass Index. : : IB SignatureJuhana > :: Pomegranate juice might be a healthier alternative for blood pressure > :: lowering medications, most likely without any unpleasant adverse [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > : > : IB Really, the proofreading is outrageout |
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