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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / March 2005Waist Circumference, BMI, and Cardiac Risk
I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of cardiac risk than body mass index. According to the report on Medscape, this is true for lipid profiles, blood pressure, and glucose levels; the correlation holds across three ethnic groups. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499868 [Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:409-415]  SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei Same article available without the registration required at medscape. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050221/hl_nm/waist_heart_dc_1 Here's another article from a different study, same conclusions. http://my.webmd.com/content/article/50/40452?src=Inktomi&condition=Healthy%20Seniors So my read on this is that men should have waists of no more than 35 inches (89 cm) and women waist sizes of no more than 33 inches (83 cm). Any ideas how this could hold universally true without any consideration of height, weight and maybe other factors like nutrition, sleep and exercise? > Same article available without the registration required at medscape. > http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050221/hl_nm/waist_heart_dc_1 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > consideration of height, weight and maybe other factors like nutrition, > sleep and exercise? By God's design. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 My favorite Galileo quote, "'You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within himself." - Galileo Galilei > My favorite Galileo quote, > "'You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it > within himself." > - Galileo Galilei With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. - Lord Jesus Christ At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 > My favorite Galileo quote, > "'You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it > within himself." > - Galileo Galilei Educare to bring out. A lot different then placing in, I guess it is the old blank slate argument vis intrinsic intelligence. I?m with Galileo and Su Tunpo on this one. Oh Your quote warms my heart so we be on topic. ;)) Bill SignatureZone 5 S Jersey USA Shade --> http://www.ocutech.com/ For vision problems http://www.truemajorityaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=jvLUJdP8H&b= 315914&msource=ustack > I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study > apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > -- > Don As has been discussed before here in SMC, for most folks there is a strong correlation between weight/BMI and waist circumference. This is why when folks lose weight, they generally find their clothes fitting more loosely around the waist and when they gain, the clothes are tighter around the waist. > "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed > us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their > use. --Galileo Galilei In truth, nowhere in the holy Bible are there instructions to not use the abilities He has given us. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1109274360.8e31efaa3a53bbd4dbfb846d3fd314ed@teranews>: >> I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study >> apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499868 >> [Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:409-415] >As has been discussed before here in SMC, for most folks there is a >strong correlation between weight/BMI and waist circumference. This is >why when folks lose weight, they generally find their clothes fitting >more loosely around the waist and when they gain, the clothes are >tighter around the waist. Yes, but apparently a stronger correlation between WC and cardiac risk than between BMI and cardiac risk, which is what the study was looking at. >In truth, nowhere in the holy Bible are there instructions to not use >the abilities He has given us. And yet so many religious (and non-religious) people live as though there were. SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1109274360.8e31efaa3a53bbd4dbfb846d3fd314ed@teranews>: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > than between BMI and cardiac risk, which is what the study was looking > at. Perhaps across different individuals per the study but should be the same degree of correlation in any *one* individual. > >In truth, nowhere in the holy Bible are there instructions to not use > >the abilities He has given us. > > And yet so many religious (and non-religious) people live as though > there were. That would be their choice. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1109424268.a7b5858b7394edb02f5244d2742e85f9@teranews>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> article <1109274360.8e31efaa3a53bbd4dbfb846d3fd314ed@teranews>: >> >> I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study >> >> apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499868 >> >> [Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:409-415] >> >As has been discussed before here in SMC, for most folks there is a >> >strong correlation between weight/BMI and waist circumference. This is >> >why when folks lose weight, they generally find their clothes fitting >> >more loosely around the waist and when they gain, the clothes are >> >tighter around the waist. >> Yes, but apparently a stronger correlation between WC and cardiac risk >> than between BMI and cardiac risk, which is what the study was looking >> at. >Perhaps across different individuals per the study but should be the >same degree of correlation in any *one* individual. Can you explain that, please? You can't usually do statistics with one individual. Are you talking about correlating BMI to WC, which was not the issue, or how both BMI and WC separately correlate to cardiac risk, which was the issue? SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1109424268.a7b5858b7394edb02f5244d2742e85f9@teranews>: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > the issue, or how both BMI and WC separately correlate to cardiac risk, > which was the issue? In truth, you can perform a statistical analysis of repeated measures from a single individual to determine correlation with an independent variable that is of interest. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1109468267.230e6510c922cf559d3d633d91a66db4@teranews>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> article <1109424268.a7b5858b7394edb02f5244d2742e85f9@teranews>: >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> >> article <1109274360.8e31efaa3a53bbd4dbfb846d3fd314ed@teranews>: >> >> >> I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study >> >> >> apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499868 >> >> >> [Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:409-415] >> >> >As has been discussed before here in SMC, for most folks there is a >> >> >strong correlation between weight/BMI and waist circumference. This is >> >> >why when folks lose weight, they generally find their clothes fitting >> >> >more loosely around the waist and when they gain, the clothes are >> >> >tighter around the waist. >> >> Yes, but apparently a stronger correlation between WC and cardiac risk >> >> than between BMI and cardiac risk, which is what the study was looking >> >> at. >> >Perhaps across different individuals per the study but should be the >> >same degree of correlation in any *one* individual. >> Can you explain that, please? You can't usually do statistics with one >> individual. Are you talking about correlating BMI to WC, which was not >> the issue, or how both BMI and WC separately correlate to cardiac risk, >> which was the issue? >In truth, you can perform a statistical analysis of repeated measures >from a single individual to determine correlation with an independent >variable that is of interest. As I asked before, can you **explain** that, please, instead of just dropping off single-sentence pronouncements? Exactly how does one go about doing that in a way that shows how waist circumference and body mass index each correlate individually to cardiac risk? And how do you correlate any results to population studies which are the norm in clinical trials? SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1109468267.230e6510c922cf559d3d633d91a66db4@teranews>: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > As I asked before, can you **explain** that, please, instead of just > dropping off single-sentence pronouncements? I can as needed. > Exactly how does one go > about doing that in a way that shows how waist circumference and body > mass index each correlate individually to cardiac risk? One can measure a surrogate marker such as hsCRP (or total cholesterol to HDL ratio). This would be a measure of cardiac risk (dependent variable) as the independent variable (either BMI or WC) varies. > And how do you > correlate any results to population studies which are the norm in > clinical trials? By predicting that an increase in the surrogate marker (s) with increasing BMI/WC within one individual represents an increase in cardiovascular risk just as seen across individuals. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1109544764.64ec147b3f8b717bcec5620747d55966@teranews>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> article <1109468267.230e6510c922cf559d3d633d91a66db4@teranews>: >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> >> article <1109424268.a7b5858b7394edb02f5244d2742e85f9@teranews>: >> >> >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in >> >> >> article <1109274360.8e31efaa3a53bbd4dbfb846d3fd314ed@teranews>: >> >> >> >> I had seen news reports similar to this before, but a recent study >> >> >> >> apparently concludes that waist circumference is a better indicator of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> >> >> http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/499868 >> >> >> >> [Am J Clin Nutr 2005;81:409-415] >> >> >> >As has been discussed before here in SMC, for most folks there is a >> >> >> >strong correlation between weight/BMI and waist circumference. This is >> >> >> >why when folks lose weight, they generally find their clothes fitting >> >> >> >more loosely around the waist and when they gain, the clothes are >> >> >> >tighter around the waist. >> >> >> Yes, but apparently a stronger correlation between WC and cardiac risk >> >> >> than between BMI and cardiac risk, which is what the study was looking >> >> >> at. >> >> >Perhaps across different individuals per the study but should be the >> >> >same degree of correlation in any *one* individual. >> >> Can you explain that, please? You can't usually do statistics with one >> >> individual. Are you talking about correlating BMI to WC, which was not >> >> the issue, or how both BMI and WC separately correlate to cardiac risk, >> >> which was the issue? >> >In truth, you can perform a statistical analysis of repeated measures >> >from a single individual to determine correlation with an independent >> >variable that is of interest. >> Exactly how does one go >> about doing that in a way that shows how waist circumference and body >> mass index each correlate individually to cardiac risk? >One can measure a surrogate marker such as hsCRP (or total cholesterol >to HDL ratio). This would be a measure of cardiac risk (dependent >variable) as the independent variable (either BMI or WC) varies. >> And how do you >> correlate any results to population studies which are the norm in >> clinical trials? >By predicting that an increase in the surrogate marker (s) with >increasing BMI/WC within one individual represents an increase in >cardiovascular risk just as seen across individuals. I appreciate you spelling it out, though I must confess I don't see any criteria or protocol to measure whether BMI or WC more closely tracks cardiac risk, which was the point of the study. I assume by tracking both independent variables against cardiac risk this would be obtained. My remaining question, I suppose, is why bother to approach the issue this way rather than directly from the population studies, which ISTM would provide a curve from which individual probabilities could be projected. What can you do with studies from one individual that apply to a patient population? SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1109544764.64ec147b3f8b717bcec5620747d55966@teranews>: [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > projected. What can you do with studies from one individual that apply > to a patient population? Answer questions regarding the relationship(s) between variables within single individuals. At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <1109649297.aec20786c7821d2789e589333ce5f7a2@teranews>: [. . .] >> I appreciate you spelling it out, though I must confess I don't see any >> criteria or protocol to measure whether BMI or WC more closely tracks [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> projected. What can you do with studies from one individual that apply >> to a patient population? >Answer questions regarding the relationship(s) between variables within >single individuals. For developing a plan to lower risk and hopefully prevent an MI, or for tracking results of treatment of a patent cardiac problem? Thanks for your answers in this thread. SignatureDon "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei > It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in > article <1109649297.aec20786c7821d2789e589333ce5f7a2@teranews>: [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > For developing a plan to lower risk and hopefully prevent an MI, or for > tracking results of treatment of a patent cardiac problem? Either question or others such as whether what is learned about the relationship(s) of these variables in the population is actually applicable to the individual. > Thanks for your answers in this thread. You are welcome :-) At His service, Andrew -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 |
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