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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / February 2005

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Doctors can reduce Adverse Effects by listening to their patients

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Sharon Hope - 21 Feb 2005 19:20 GMT
"Patient-reported medication symptoms in primary care."  This was published
by the Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 165, No. 2, January 24, 2005,
and mentioned in the People's Pharmacy column today.

At first glance, it should be a big DUHHHH (perhaps meriting its own
Doctoring for Dummies book), but unfortunately it is not only an important
consideration in medicine, but too infrequent for quality care.

I attended a seminar on Medical Ethics (illustrated by the case of statins)
last week at UCSD, and I was struck by one doctor (a ranking member of the
medical college, both a physician and a lawyer) who absolutely categorically
stated several times that he DID NOT BELIEVE that physicians would tell
patients that it was "impossible" that statins could be responsible for the
adverse effects they were experiencing.  Unable to contain myself, I spoke
up from the audience and, holding up printouts from 5 different emails that
I had personally received just in the past week by people who had heard just
such pronouncement from their own physicians - each of whom refused to even
consider statins as causitive in the symptoms the email author or his/her
loved ones were experiencing, even though all of the symptoms were well
documented in the medical literature as known statin adverse effects.  To
this the dubious doctor said that, while he didn't doubt the PATIENTS
claimed the doctors said it was impossible, he did not believe that the
doctors ever said "impossible."  To this the presenter of the ethics seminar
said that, while she would have been inclined to agree with his opinion
several years ago, having consulted with several of these dubious physicians
(at the patients' insistence), she no longer doubted the patient reports
that their doctors said it was "impossible."   Disturbingly, the opinionated
doctor (who instructs other doctors and doctors to be in medical school)
then said, I do not believe you.  Effectively, branding not only the
presenter, but all the patients referenced, liars.

Naturally, this was disproportionately disturbing to me, as there had been
***AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES*** for intervention during the 4 year decline on 10mg
Lipitor when my husband's growing constellation of symptoms, increasing in
severity, had been repeatedly discussed with his Primary Care Physician and
his Cardiologist.  Never once did either of them relate these symptoms to
the statin (exception: Muscle pain, he was told it was the statin, but to
"tough it out"), nor did they explore other causes (exception, near the end
of the 4th year, there was a carotid artery scan done at my insistence to
eliminate a blockage of blood flow to the brain as a cause - it was clear
and nothing else was done).

It was from this perspective that this morning's People's Pharmacy reference
struck me as important.  Here, without further introduction, is the
abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=15668373


Arch Intern Med. 2005 Jan 24;165(2):234-40.

Patient-reported medication symptoms in primary care.

Weingart SN, Gandhi TK, Seger AC, Seger DL, Borus J, Burdick E, Leape LL,
Bates
DW.

Division of General Medicine and Primary Care, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical
Center, Boston, MA, USA. saul_weingart@dfci.harvard.edu

BACKGROUND: Little is known about the prevalence and character of
medication-related symptoms in primary care and their relationship to
adverse
drug events (ADEs) or about factors that affect patient-physician
communication
regarding medication symptoms. METHODS: The study included 661 patients who
received prescriptions from physicians at 4 adult primary care practices. We
interviewed patients 2 weeks and 3 months after the index visit, reviewed
patients' medical records, and surveyed physicians whose patients identified
medication-related symptoms. Physician reviewers determined whether
medication
symptoms constituted true ADEs. We used multivariable regression to examine
factors associated with patients' decision to discuss symptoms with a
physician
and with physicians' decision to alter therapy. RESULTS: A total of 179
patients
identified 286 medication-related symptoms but discussed only 196 (69%) with
their physicians. Physicians changed therapy in response to 76% of reported
symptoms. Patients' failure to discuss 90 medication symptoms resulted in 19
(21%) ameliorable and 2 (2%) preventable ADEs. Physicians' failure to change
therapy in 48 cases resulted in 31 (65%) ameliorable ADEs. In multivariable
analyses, patients who took more medications (odds ratio [OR] = 1.06; 95%
confidence interval [CI] = 1.04-1.08; P<.001) and had multiple medication
allergies (OR = 1.07; 95% CI = 1.03-1.11; P = .001) were more likely to
discuss
symptoms. Male physicians (OR = 1.20, 95% CI = 1.09-1.26; P = .002) and
physicians at 2 practices were more likely to change therapy (OR = 1.24; 95%
CI
= 1.17-1.28; P<.001; and OR = 1.17; 95% CI = 1.08-1.24; P = .002).
CONCLUSION:
Primary care physicians may be able to reduce the duration and/or the
severity
of many ADEs by eliciting and addressing patients' medication symptoms.

Publication Types:
   Multicenter Study

PMID: 15668373 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

So, as many of you have seen in most of my posts, if only the adverse
effects were more widely known, and if only doctors would screen for them,
others need not become disabled due to statin adverse effects.  A simple
message, now worked up as a study.

Unfortunately, the situation persists.

And unfortunately for patients, doctors-to-be are being instructed by
doctors like the one in the audience of the ethics seminar, who is so deeply
in denial as to ignore evidence all around him (and at least he attended).
It is little surprise that that particular physician felt the need to attain
a law degree to go with his medical credentials - one wonders if it would
have been a perceived need had he spent the hours listening to his patients
that he instead expended at law school?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 21 Feb 2005 21:03 GMT
In truth, once a doctor hears about an adverse effect, it has already
happened and even listening (i.e. acting on the information which most
already doctors do) will not reduce (the rate) of adverse effects.

You will remain in my prayers, dear Sharon, whom I love, in Lord
Christ's holy name.

May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and
Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the amazing
peace of His everlasting kingdom.

Here's how:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129

Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is
the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which
is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments,  the 2
arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the
Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the
2PD Approach.  Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His
presence known here on Usenet :-)

Also, note that Exodus 16:16 continues to remind us that 16 oz plus 16
oz makes 2 pounds, which is "a certain measure of weight," which is what
"omer" literally means in Hebrew.

Enter the 2PD-OMER Approach:

http://www.heartmdphd.com/wtloss.asp

At His service,

Andrew

Signature

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A 
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A 
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A 
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A 
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A 
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129     

> "Patient-reported medication symptoms in primary care."  This was published
> by the Archives of Internal Medicine, Volume 165, No. 2, January 24, 2005,
[quoted text clipped - 108 lines]
> have been a perceived need had he spent the hours listening to his patients
> that he instead expended at law school?
Sharon Hope - 21 Feb 2005 22:47 GMT
> In truth, once a doctor hears about an adverse effect, it has already
> happened and even listening (i.e. acting on the information which most
> already doctors do) will not reduce (the rate) of adverse effects.

Yes, but the severity of damage can be mitigated by early intervention.

If the muscle pain, for example, which started nearly immediately, had been
taken as a signal to discontinue the drug (yes, this was well before Baycol
was pulled, and long before the two AHA/ACC/NHLBI joint advisories), the
damage might have been minimal, and recovery might have happened in a matter
of months.

Instead, by NOT listening, the damage continued for 4 years until PATIENT
intervention, and the disabilities remain 3 years later.

Even here, the RATE of adverse effects would have been lower, because the
chronic fatigue, peripheral neuropathy, cognitive damage, memory loss,
transient global amnesia, and aphasia took longer to become evident.

Thus 1 AE, had it been addressed, became 7+ AEs.

> You will remain in my prayers, dear Sharon, whom I love, in Lord
> Christ's holy name.

Thank you.

> May you reject your pride and accept Him as your personal Lord and
> Savior, someday, so that you too will have eternal life and the amazing
[quoted text clipped - 172 lines]
>> patients
>> that he instead expended at law school?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 Feb 2005 05:47 GMT
> > In truth, once a doctor hears about an adverse effect, it has already
> > happened and even listening (i.e. acting on the information which most
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Thus 1 AE, had it been addressed, became 7+ AEs.

That's not how the reporting is done.  If one person out of a thousand
is having adverse reaction(s), the rate stays at 0.1% even if the one
person has 100 different symptoms (though the list of AEs gets longer).  

At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Hawki63@sbcglobal.net - 21 Feb 2005 22:52 GMT
however true this is...

if ANY doctor used the word "IMPOSSIBLE" to me....that would likely be my
last visit!!!

> In truth, once a doctor hears about an adverse effect, it has already
> happened and even listening (i.e. acting on the information which most
[quoted text clipped - 179 lines]
>> patients
>> that he instead expended at law school?
listener - 21 Feb 2005 23:38 GMT
> however true this is...
>
> if ANY doctor used the word "IMPOSSIBLE" to me....that would likely be
> my last visit!!!

I agree. But perhaps part of the reason many doctors feel strongly about
statins (in particular) is in part due to statements like these (besides
what they see firsthand in theiw own practice):

"Statin therapy has saved thousands of lives by preventing heart attacks
and strokes. In major studies of thousands of patients on statin therapy,
as many patients had muscle complaints on placebo or nothing as on statin
therapy!  This means that when patients are not sure whether they are
receiving sugar pills (placebo) or statin therapy, they are as likely to
have muscle complaints on the sugar pills as they are on the statin
therapy. Therefore many patients with muscle complaints on statins are
not having a reaction to the drugs and they should continue this
important therapy.

The vast majority of patients receiving statin therapy tolerate it
without any side effect.  Statins have been shown to be safer than
aspirin in studies of over 80,000 patients.  There is some evidence that
patients with heart and vascular conditions who stop their statin therapy
abruptly may be at increased risk of having medical problems. "

http://www.impostertrial.com/patient.htm

...."the substantial protective effect of statins, particularly on
coronary artery disease, is well documented and by far outweighs the
potential risk of statin-induced polyneuropathy."

Statins and Risk of Polyneuropathy: A Case-control Study, by D. Gaist,
MD, PhD; U. Jeppesen, MD, PhD; M. Andersen, MD, PhD; L. A. Garcia
Rodriguez, MD, MSc; J. Hallas, MD, PhD; and S. H. Sindrup MD, PhD;
Neurology, May 2002.

"...high blood levels of cholesterol do bear a relation to heart disease
risk; and statin drugs that lower cholesterol reduce the risk of heart
disease and stroke, which are primary causes of death and disability,
respectively, in the US:

Beatrice A. Golomb, MD, PhD on Statin Drugs
March 7, 2002 interview


"Considering that Dr. Golomb is the premier research authority on statins
in the world, and also is independent of pharm co funding and has
absolutely no reason to 'spin' anything, I take her at her word."

Sharon Hope
sci.med.cardiology

So we have a class of drugs that is helping millions. Hopefully, ongoing
research will aid in weeding out those few who might be predisposed to
more severe side effects. Just as *we* have to grapple with the
risk/benefit issue of these drugs so too do the doctors who prescribe
them and many of them feel the benefit outweigh the risks.

L.
Hawki63@sbcglobal.net - 22 Feb 2005 02:29 GMT
I agree ...and am a perfect example....I entered a Lipitor drug
trial...being assured that I would at least receive Lipitor...but maybe not
a vitamin that was being tested with it...ie ...could be in the placebo
group...but was guaranteed that I would receive Lipitor

within 2 weeks I "ached all over"...having watched my spouse have Lipitor
troubles...I reported to the NP that I was dropping out of study...

she politely broke my code..and said "you have been on placebo.....total
placebo..as this trial for the first month EVERY patient took no active
drug...

good illustration of the workings of the mind!!

since that time I tried statins again...first Pravachol...no side
effects...but 18 months later..my lipids hardly budged..so started
Lipitor..voila...after 3 months my lipids dropped like a rock...NO side
effects...

unfortunately I have recently stopped the Lipitor..mainly due to
"heartburn"....may or may not be related....in fact...4 months no
Lipitor..and heartburn is still there...

>> however true this is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> L.
Sharon Hope - 22 Feb 2005 03:48 GMT
>> however true this is...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> http://www.impostertrial.com/patient.htm

Yes, Dr. Phillips does not seek to unduly alarm the patient.

You fail to mention that on that same page, however, he includes:
a.. What are the Symptoms of Muscle Toxicity?

a.. What is Myopathy?

a.. What to do if You Think You are Having a Reaction to Your Statin Therapy

On the physician side of that same site, professional due diligence in
attention to adverse effects is assumed:
http://www.impostertrial.com/physician.htm
Physician Information
a.. Statin Associated Rhabdomyolysis

a.. What is Known about Statin Associated Myopathy with Normal CK?

a.. How to Evaluate Patients with Muscle Symptoms on Statins?

a.. How to Treat Patients with Hypercholesterolemia Who Can't Take Statin
Therapy

a.. Percutaneous Muscle Biopsy

a.. Post-Rhabdomyolysis Syndromes

> ...."the substantial protective effect of statins, particularly on
> coronary artery disease, is well documented and by far outweighs the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Rodriguez, MD, MSc; J. Hallas, MD, PhD; and S. H. Sindrup MD, PhD;
> Neurology, May 2002.

Again, correct.  But you left out the findings of the study:

"We found that users of statins were at
a 4- to 14-fold increased risk of developing idiopathic

polyneuropathy compared with the background population,

and that this adverse effect may primarily

occur after long-term treatment with statins."

and

"For patients treated with statins for 2 or more years the odds ratio of
definite idiopathic polyneuropathy was 26.4"

and

"Conclusions: Long-term exposure to statins may substantially increase the
risk of polyneuropathy."

> "...high blood levels of cholesterol do bear a relation to heart disease
> risk; and statin drugs that lower cholesterol reduce the risk of heart
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Beatrice A. Golomb, MD, PhD on Statin Drugs
> March 7, 2002 interview

more from that interview:

"On March 7, 2002, Colorado HealthSite interviewed Beatrice A. Golomb, MD,
PhD, principal investigator of a study on Statin Drugs by the National
Institutes of Health:
"Question: What are the common complaints of patients who take statins?
Dr. Golomb: The most common problems we hear reported pertain to muscle
pain or weakness, fatigue, memory and cognitive problems, sleep problems,
and neuropathy. Erectile dysfunction, problems with temperature regulation
(feeling hot or cold, or having sweats), are among the other problems
reported. "
http://www.coloradohealthsite.org/topics/interviews/golomb.html

> "Considering that Dr. Golomb is the premier research authority on statins
> in the world, and also is independent of pharm co funding and has
> absolutely no reason to 'spin' anything, I take her at her word."
>
> Sharon Hope
> sci.med.cardiology

Dr. Golomb is often interviewed about adverse effects of statins.  An
example is the following:
Statin Adverse Effects: Implications

for the Elderly

by Beatrice A. Golomb, M.D., Ph.D.

" Nonetheless, all drugs have

potential adverse reactions despite their potential

benefits. Understanding these risks is vitally important,

particularly in elderly patients in whom both risks and

benefits differ relative to younger patients."

and

"Muscle problems are the most common reported

adverse effects of statins, according to an observational

database maintained by the University of California at

San Diego Statin Study group. Perhaps the most feared

adverse effect of statins is rhabdomyolysis--a condition

in which there is severe breakdown of muscle tissue

that may be toxic to the kidneys and result in kidney

failure or death."

and

"

Adverse muscle problems from statins, in addition to

rhabdomyolysis, take a variety of forms (Table).

Shortness of breath sometimes accompanies statinassociated

muscle problems. The "respiratory exchange

ratio"--the ratio of carbon dioxide exhaled per oxygen

inhaled--is altered in people with statin myotoxicity

(Phillips et al., 2004). Occasionally, shortness of breath

is the predominant symptom. Patients may experience

marked shortness of breath that occurs following

initiation of statin therapy and is sustained while statins

are continued for which no etiology is identified on

extensive cardiopulmonary workup. These symptoms

resolve completely with statin discontinuation.

Muscle problems associated with statins may be more

common among the elderly."

and

"Cognitive problems also occur with statins and may

also have more impact in elderly patients. Two

randomized trials that were designed to assess cognitive

effects of statins have shown worsening in cognitive

function (Muldoon et al., 2002, 2000). In addition,

several case reports (King et al., 2003, 2001; Orsi et al.,

2001) and one large case series (involving 60 patients)

(Wagstaff et al., 2003) have reported deleterious

cognitive effects of statins on memory and cognitive

function."

and

"Analogous to the case for muscle adverse effects, the

impact of cognitive adverse effects from statins, when

they occur, may be more profound in the elderly."

and

"
A large variety of other adverse effects have been

reported with statins, including (but not limited to)

gastrointestinal and neurological effects, psychiatric

problems, immune effects (e.g., lupus-like syndrome),

erectile dysfunction and gynecomastia (breast

enlargement in men), rash and skin problems, and sleep

problems.

Of particular note for the elderly population, the

PROSPER trial found a significant 25% increase in

incident cancer in participants over age 70 randomized

to statin therapy versus placebo (Shepherd et al., 2002)."

> So we have a class of drugs that is helping millions. Hopefully, ongoing
> research will aid in weeding out those few who might be predisposed to
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> L.
listener - 22 Feb 2005 05:12 GMT
> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Yes, Dr. Phillips does not seek to unduly alarm the patient.

Nice way of putting your "spin" on it. So is he just making it all up?  
Thousands of lives saved..? safer than aspirin...? It clearly speaks for
itself.

> You fail to mention that on that same page, however, he includes:

No I didn't. Do ya see the link I posted?

>> ...."the substantial protective effect of statins, particularly on
>> coronary artery disease, is well documented and by far outweighs the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Again, correct.  But you left out the findings of the study:

I think the words I quoted speak for themselves.

>> "...high blood levels of cholesterol do bear a relation to heart
>> disease risk; and statin drugs that lower cholesterol reduce the risk
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>  among the other problems reported. "
>  http://www.coloradohealthsite.org/topics/interviews/golomb.html

Boy, ya got me there. Right. People sure do complain! Even with that, Dr.
Golomb sees the value in statins. I thought you took her at her word? I
guess your a discriminating word taker - the ones you don't like you
discard.

>> "Considering that Dr. Golomb is the premier research authority on
>> statins in the world, and also is independent of pharm co funding and
>> has absolutely no reason to 'spin' anything, I take her at her word."
>>
>> Sharon Hope
>> sci.med.cardiology

Strong words. Unfortunately, your misleading, over-emphasis, skewing of
studies and overreaching make it difficult to take *you* at your word. It
gets really screwy when you imply that, when I quote from the very studies
you cite, the authors themselves are misleading!(or something like that -
it's hard to know exactly what your point is).

>> So we have a class of drugs that is helping millions. Hopefully,
>> ongoing research will aid in weeding out those few who might be
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>> L.

L.
Sharon Hope - 23 Feb 2005 04:09 GMT
>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> >a.. Post-Rhabdomyolysis Syndromes

> No I didn't. Do ya see the link I posted?

Not everyone trusts links and exercises them.

The snippet you provided was significantly out of context.  The context was
statin adverse effects.

>>> ...."the substantial protective effect of statins, particularly on
>>> coronary artery disease, is well documented and by far outweighs the
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
>>  among the other problems reported. "
>>  http://www.coloradohealthsite.org/topics/interviews/golomb.html

Your choice of quotes were so far out of context per the content and intent
of the citations to be laughable.

They simply didn't pass the "laugh test."

Is this approach something that you needed to go to class at Pfizer to learn
to do?

I ask because it is exactly reminiscent of the approach that Pfizer took
last week at the FDA hearing.

Per http://tampatrib.com/nationworldnews/MGB3UOEJA5E.html
Witnesses Challenge FDA Over Painkillers
By RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR Los Angeles Times
Published: Feb 17, 2005

"Although a Pfizer scientist asserted that there is no clear evidence that
Celebrex poses a risk, members of the committees rejected his position.
``That just doesn't pass the laugh test,'' Alastair Wood of Vanderbilt
University, chairman of the hearing, said after Pfizer omitted the key study
that documented problems with Celebrex.

Wood was referring to a study sponsored by the National Cancer Institute
involving 2,000 patients over almost three years. Patients receiving higher
doses of Celebrex had higher rates of heart attacks and strokes.

All three cox-2 drugs were approved by the FDA as stomach-friendly
alternatives to traditional drugs for the relief of arthritis pain,
beginning with Vioxx in 1999."

The news article didn't mention if ad hominem attacks were also part of the
Pfizer corporate approach in the hearings...

>>> L.
>
> L.
listener - 23 Feb 2005 14:29 GMT
>>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>>>>
>>>> http://www.impostertrial.com/patient.htm

>> No I didn't. Do ya see the link I posted?


> Not everyone trusts links and exercises them.

! Excuse me for saying this, but that is a really stupid thing to say.

> Your choice of quotes were so far out of context per the content and
> intent of the citations to be laughable.

Sorry that you find such a serious issue laughable. (With thanks to A.
Chung!)


> They simply didn't pass the "laugh test."
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> The news article didn't mention if ad hominem attacks were also part
> of the Pfizer corporate approach in the hearings...

I don't know but it seems to me that you've been consistently attacking
*me* lately. You really seem hung up on the "ad hominem' thing that you
accuse me of....Although with your view, I can understand how you might
take criticism and correction as attacks.

As I said, I think the quotes speak clearly for themselves. Everyone can
read the full context and make up their own mind.

L.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Feb 2005 18:37 GMT
> >>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
> >>>>
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> Sorry that you find such a serious issue laughable. (With thanks to A.
> Chung!)

(You are welcome although God should get the credit for any real change
in you, Frank)  


At His service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Sharon Hope - 28 Feb 2005 03:56 GMT
>>>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message

>>> No I didn't. Do ya see the link I posted?
>
>> Not everyone trusts links and exercises them.
>
> ! Excuse me for saying this, but that is a really stupid thing to say.

http://www.us-cert.gov/current/current_activity.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=security+malicious+code+link+spoofed
listener - 28 Feb 2005 04:53 GMT
>>>>> "listener" <listener@nospam.net> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=security+malicious+code+link+s
> poofed

Not that this deserves an answer....

Still really stupid.

L.
Sharon Hope - 22 Feb 2005 03:14 GMT
Yes, I hear from people all the time who have taken such action.
Unfortunately, depending upon their insurance coverage, they can then wait
months to see another doctor.

Also, for others, particularly those harmed by statin adverse effects when
there was little or nothing published, the questions asked about the
symptoms include a list of things, including all meds, as well as family
background, possibility of stroke, possibility of stress, etc. When the
doctor is ruling out a list of causes, and the patient really has no idea of
the cause but is simply concerned that the symptoms go away, it is less
likely they would stomp out and discontinue with the doctor.

Either way, while it should be buyer beware, the study is a worthwhile
reminder to doctors to listen to their patients.

> however true this is...
>
[quoted text clipped - 195 lines]
>>> patients
>>> that he instead expended at law school?
 
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