Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / December 2004
FDA Calls Crestor Ads 'False and Misleading'
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RobJ - 23 Dec 2004 13:54 GMT New York Times December 23, 2004
F.D.A. Calls Ads for Cholesterol Pill Crestor 'False and Misleading' By GARDINER HARRIS
WASHINGTON - AstraZeneca's recent full-page newspaper advertisements defending the safety of its cholesterol-lowering pill, Crestor, are "false and misleading," in part because serious concerns remain about the safety of the drug, federal drug regulators said Wednesday.
The advertisements stated that "the F.D.A. has confidence in the safety and efficacy of Crestor" and that the agency "as recently as last Friday publicly confirmed that Crestor is safe and effective." Neither is true, said a letter from the Food and Drug Administration to AstraZeneca.
In fact, days before the advertisements ran, top agency officials were widely quoted expressing concerns about Crestor's safety. Public Citizen, a health advocacy group, has called for Crestor's withdrawal.
AstraZeneca stopped running the advertisements in November, well before receiving the drug agency's letter, said Emily Denney, a company spokeswoman. "We stand behind the ads and our communications around Crestor," Ms. Denney said.
Dr. Sidney Wolfe, director of Public Citizen's health research group, said the company's ads "are just misrepresenting F.D.A.'s position, making it appear that even F.D.A. cleared the drug; that's a lie." Dr. Wolfe predicted that the company would soon be forced to withdraw Crestor.
Since September, the Food and Drug Administration has sent out nine letters warning companies about false promotions. Most such letters scold companies for exaggerating a drug's benefits or underplaying its risks. Rarely does such a letter criticize a company for misrepresenting the agency itself.
AstraZeneca's advertising campaign defending Crestor was begun after Dr. David J. Graham, a safety official at the drug agency, told a Congressional panel on Nov. 18 that Crestor was one of five currently marketed drugs whose safety needed "to be seriously looked at."
Dr. Sandra Kweder, deputy director of the agency's office of new drugs, told the panel that Crestor's risks were "something that we are in the process of and have been evaluating very, very closely."
That same day, Dr. Steven Galson, acting director of the agency's center for drug evaluation and research, was quoted in The Washington Post as saying that the agency "has been very concerned about Crestor since the day it was approved, and we've been watching it very carefully."
The concerns largely revolve around Crestor's effect on the kidneys. According to an analysis by Public Citizen, there were 29 reports of kidney failure or insufficiency among patients given Crestor in the first year of its approval in the United States. Considering the limited number of prescriptions for the drug, that is 75 times the rate of kidney failure or insufficiency for all other similar drugs combined, Public Citizen said. The company responded that Crestor might actually improve kidney function.
The remarks by Dr. Graham and others created widespread concern among patients and physicians. In the week after the hearing, Crestor's share of new prescriptions among cholesterol-lowering drugs tumbled 22 percent, to 6.4 percent from 8.2 percent, according to information provided by J. P. Morgan.
So AstraZeneca placed full-page advertisements in newspapers across the country for several days. Crestor's decline in prescriptions then stopped. The drug's share of new prescriptions among cholesterol-lowering drugs has remained steady at about 6.4 percent in recent weeks.
But the advertisements were false, the drug agency wrote in an undated letter to Mark R. Szewczak, AstraZeneca's director of promotional regulatory affairs. For instance, they had a boldface line that stated, "A medication can be more effective and just as safe."
The advertisements went on to claim that Crestor "lowers bad cholesterol better than the leading medications in its class."
The Food and Drug Administration's letter, written by Dr. Christine Hemler Smith, stated, "This claim is misleading because it minimizes the risks associated with the 40 mg. dose of Crestor." AstraZeneca, the letter says, agreed to reserve the 40-milligram dose for those patients who failed to lower their cholesterol with a 20-milligram dose.
"F.D.A. is not aware of substantial evidence or substantial clinical experience demonstrating that all doses of Crestor are 'just as safe' as other" cholesterol-lowering drugs, the letter states.
Similarly, the agency took issue with the advertisements' claim that the drug agency had endorsed Crestor's safety.
Asked how the company could state in its advertisements that the drug agency had confirmed the safety of Crestor when the agency's top officials were saying that they were concerned about the drug, Ms. Denney said, "We believe that our communications have been consistent with what has been communicated to us and with what clinical trials tell us and post-marketing data tells us."
AstraZeneca executives once had high hopes for Crestor. Analysts predicted that sales would top $1 billion this year and reach $4.5 billion by 2007. But through the first nine months of this year, Crestor sales were $596 million.
With $9.2 billion in sales last year, Lipitor, by Pfizer, is the category's biggest seller, followed by Zocor, by Merck, which had $5 billion in sales, and Pravachol, by Bristol-Myers Squibb, with $2.8 billion.
Adding to AstraZeneca's woes, an Food and Drug Administration advisory panel recently voted against approving Exanta, a stroke-prevention drug. And the company reported last week that a large study of its cancer drug, Iressa, showed that it did not improve survival rates of patients. In the study's aftermath, the company said it would stop promoting Iressa to physicians, and the drug agency said it was considering forcing the drug's withdrawal.
The company has promised to overhaul its drug development efforts, and it is fiercely defending the image of Crestor.
TC - 23 Dec 2004 14:35 GMT > New York Times > December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > The company has promised to overhaul its drug development efforts, and > it is fiercely defending the image of Crestor. Lookee, lookee, the FDA is actually trying to look as if it is doing something useful now. Too little too late, eh?
TC
Daniel Ganek - 23 Dec 2004 15:23 GMT >>New York Times >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>Neither is true, said a letter from the Food and Drug Administration >>to AstraZeneca. [[ SNIP ]]
> Lookee, lookee, the FDA is actually trying to look as if it is doing > something useful now. Too little too late, eh? > > TC I'm neither for nor against the FDA, BUT, wasn't it just a few years ago we were all bitching that the FDA took TOO long to approve drugs?
Now, we're all bitching and moaning that they're not during their job and letting drugs on the market too soon!
/dan
TC - 23 Dec 2004 15:42 GMT > >>New York Times > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > /dan Were we? I don't think so. Unless by "we" you are talking about the pharma industry.
TC
Mark Probert - 23 Dec 2004 15:57 GMT > > >>New York Times > > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Were we? I don't think so. Unless by "we" you are talking about the > pharma industry. "We" were. "We" being people who were hearing about treatments in the development stages for conditions where there was no treatment or no relief. "We" demanded a shorter process.
Mike - 23 Dec 2004 17:27 GMT > > > I'm neither for nor against the FDA, BUT, wasn't it just a few years > > > ago we were all bitching that the FDA took TOO long to approve drugs? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > development stages for conditions where there was no treatment or no relief. > "We" demanded a shorter process. If you haven't already, read "Against Leviathan: Government Power and a Free Society" by Robert Higgs. It's a real eye opener..
The FDA is as corrupt if not more corrupt than any other government bureacracy, such as the DEA and other domestic terrorist organizations.
James Stein - 23 Dec 2004 20:49 GMT >> > >>New York Times >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > relief. > "We" demanded a shorter process. You should know by now: The ideal FDA needs to approve all effective safe drugs overnight, and will catch all harmful and ineffective drugs immediately.
And that little nonsense about a process for distinguishing between the two? The public's not concerned with that.
William Wagner - 23 Dec 2004 21:41 GMT > You should know by now: The ideal FDA needs to approve all effective safe > drugs overnight, and will catch all harmful and ineffective drugs > immediately. > > And that little nonsense about a process for distinguishing between the two? > The public's not concerned with that. A watch dog does not catch everything. However his presence is of import as easy entry/harm requires mediation (legal support) else be bitten. Not perfect but otherwise protection of the hearth, home and health becomes a full time endeavor. Perhaps it should be and if so libraries should be supported and the public provided easy access. Where are you Ben Franklin? Health is tough issue these days with lots of money involved. The pharmacy I go too knows my first name not a good thing!
Bill
 Signature Zone 5 S Jersey USA Shade Serious Vision Problems like Starghart?s ? --> http://www.ocutech.com/
Mark Probert - 23 Dec 2004 22:09 GMT > >> > >>New York Times > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > And that little nonsense about a process for distinguishing between the two? > The public's not concerned with that. Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all humankind.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Dec 2004 23:40 GMT > > >> > >>New York Times > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > humankind. Enter Christ Jesus :-)
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Ilena Rose - 24 Dec 2004 01:33 GMT >Who is the humblest person in the universe? >http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 I thought it was Quack Steve Barrett calling himself "The Media" in Time Magazine.
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 13:54 GMT > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Enter Christ Jesus :-) As a Jew, I find being proselytized offensive. Please do not respond to me again in this manner.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 14:12 GMT > > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > As a Jew, I find being proselytized offensive. Please do not respond to me > again in this manner. Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (please forgive me):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:37 GMT > > > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (please forgive me): Your being openly Christian is not what I found offensive. I specifically stated that your response was, IMNSHO, proselytizing, and that is what I found offensive. I trust that you are not claiming that being "openly Christian" is the equivalent of proselytizing. If so, then your definition, which is not the same as others, is offensive.
And, even after I asked you not to do it again, you did it. That is offensive.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT > > > > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > Your being openly Christian is not what I found offensive. It seems you need to be more truthful with yourself.
Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
Also, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 17:04 GMT > > > > > > > > "TC" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1103816544.372673.129810@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > > > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 88 lines] > > Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug): My neighbors are openly Christian.
My friends are openly Christian.
None of them shoves their religion in my face.
None of them would behave as you do.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 17:56 GMT > > > > > "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 118 lines] > > None of them shoves their religion in my face. I am not forcing you to read this. Nor are you forced to read the material behind the links.
> None of them would behave as you do. We each will behave differently.
Christians are not clones.
Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 21:41 GMT snip
> > > > > > > Enter Christ Jesus :-) > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I am not forcing you to read this. Nor are you forced to read the > material behind the links. When I read a response to a post of mine, I do not expect to get proseltyzed, and, frankly, I do not care how the bilge is displayed.
I politely asked you to not do it again. Instead, you responded to every one of my posts the same way. AFAIAC, once you were asked you could have done the courteous thing and honored my request. You chose to do the opposite. Tat is, AFAIAC, thrusting it in my face.
> > None of them would behave as you do. > > We each will behave differently. True. There are those who respect another right to be free of a religion not their own. And then there are those who do not.
> Christians are not clones. While that may be true on the surface, my personal experience where I have been subjected to a religion not of my choosing has been that of Chirstianity. In the US, the vast majority of cases where there is an attempt to impose a religion or the attempt to secure a governmental imprimatur of approval has been that of some Christians.
> Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug): Be as open as you want, but not in my face.
And, of course, you did nothing to respect my wish.
Mike - 24 Dec 2004 14:40 GMT > Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (please forgive me): Oh, it's ok to *be* one. Just not openly. You must fight against your tendencies, keep it to yourself, and don't come barging in demanding equal rights.
Oops, sorry, wrong group. I thought this was alt.homosexuality.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT > > Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (please forgive me): > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Oops, sorry, wrong group. I thought this was alt.homosexuality. Good analogy. Thanks for sharing it.
May God bless you in many ways this Christmas.
May God similarly bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Ilena Rose - 24 Dec 2004 01:32 GMT >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all >humankind. There is a HUMONGOUS continuum between "perfection" and the performance of the FDA, Marla.
James Stein - 24 Dec 2004 02:03 GMT >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all >>humankind. > > There is a HUMONGOUS continuum between "perfection" and the > performance of the FDA, Marla. Actually, what we refer to is the fact that people decry how long it takes the FDA to get a drug certified. And when those times are shortened, they complain that the screening process is not rigorous enough. Those two qualities are mutually exclusive, yet people desire both.
The FDA is *just* an organization. The fact that an ideal exists does not mean we can achieve it.
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:00 GMT > >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The FDA is *just* an organization. The fact that an ideal exists does not > mean we can achieve it. Which does not mean that there should be anything less than a maximum effort to achieve it.
Remember, the FDA "foot dragging" on Thalidomide prevented that tragedy from occurring here.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 14:12 GMT > > >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Remember, the FDA "foot dragging" on Thalidomide prevented that tragedy from > occurring here. Correct.
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:38 GMT > > > >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > > >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Correct. Please do not respond to my posts. I see that you refuse to honor my requests. I find your proselytizing to be egregiously offensive.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT > > > > >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > > > >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Please do not respond to my posts. I see that you refuse to honor my > requests. I find your proselytizing to be egregiously offensive. Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
Also, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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Doug Freese - 24 Dec 2004 20:17 GMT > Please do not respond to my posts. I see that you refuse to honor my > requests. I find your proselytizing to be egregiously offensive. Quite your bitching and ignor(killfile, hit delete) the a.shole!! Your whinning is as bad and his ignorant proselytizing.
-DF
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 21:42 GMT > > Please do not respond to my posts. I see that you refuse to honor my > > requests. I find your proselytizing to be egregiously offensive. > > Quite your bitching and ignor(killfile, hit delete) the a.shole!! Your > whinning is as bad and his ignorant proselytizing. Thank you for your input.
I do not turn the other cheek. Last time I did, I got whacked in the new one.
James Stein - 24 Dec 2004 22:43 GMT >> >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all >> >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > effort > to achieve it. Agreed. The issue is simply that the range between "Speed" and "Thoroughness" is a continuum, and the correct place on that continuum is entirely subjective - depending on whether you're dying from lacking a medicine still in testing, or dying from a medicine that got out of testing too quickly for your own good. The FDA is a victim of the public's demands that it exist at both poles at once.
Of course that doesn't mean we should not do all within our power to bring the two poles closer to one another. It's merely the demand that the FDA somehow be two places at once is absurd.
Mark Probert - 25 Dec 2004 14:49 GMT > >> >>Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > >> >>humankind. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > the two poles closer to one another. It's merely the demand that the FDA > somehow be two places at once is absurd. I like the relationship of speed and thoroughness to the relationship as expressed by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle.
Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 13:58 GMT > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > >humankind. > > There is a HUMONGOUS continuum between "perfection" and the > performance of the FDA, Mark. Not nearly as large as the gap between rationality and Ilena Rosenthal.
Not nearly as large as the gap between sanity and Ilena Rosenthal.
Not nearly as large as the gap between logic and Ilena Rosenthal.
Not nearly as large as the gap between consistency and Ilena Rosenthal.
Not nearly as large as the gap between non-hypocrisy and Ilena Rosenthal.
When taken together, those gaps span such a void that even the Hubble Space Telescope would be strained to see from one end to the other.
And, no, I am not defending the FDA. They are beginning to wake up to the problem. You, however, are in a multiple millennium long stupor and will never wake up to your problems.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 14:12 GMT > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > >humankind. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > problem. You, however, are in a multiple millennium long stupor and will > never wake up to your problems. There is so much hatred in you.
May God change this to love and bless you in many other ways.
May God similarly bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:40 GMT > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > > >humankind. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > There is so much hatred in you. Wrong. Ms. Rosenthal believes that it is acceptable behavior to write to my wife in a feeble and pathetic attempt to stifle my free speech.
Now, do not respond to my posts, if you are going to tack on your screed.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 15:51 GMT > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > > > >humankind. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Wrong. It certainly is not love.
> Ms. Rosenthal believes that it is acceptable behavior to write to my > wife in a feeble and pathetic attempt to stifle my free speech. It is ironic that you feel there are others trying to stifle your free speech.
> Now, do not respond to my posts, if you are going to tack on your screed. Again, the irony.
And again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 17:06 GMT > > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and all > > > > > >humankind. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > It certainly is not love. It isd a form of pity. However, I refuse to be her victim.
> > Ms. Rosenthal believes that it is acceptable behavior to write to my > > wife in a feeble and pathetic attempt to stifle my free speech. > > It is ironic that you feel there are others trying to stifle your free > speech. There is no irony. I *requested* that you do not proslytize to me. I did nothing to stop you. I again *request* that you cease.
> > Now, do not respond to my posts, if you are going to tack on your screed. > > Again, the irony. Like I said, no irony. Just your inability to recognize another's point of view.
listener - 24 Dec 2004 17:19 GMT >> > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA >> > > > > >and [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > Like I said, no irony. Just your inability to recognize another's > point of view. You are wasting your words and time. "Dr." Chung is mentally unbalanced and no amount of asking, pleading or cajoling will get him to stop.
L.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 17:56 GMT > >> > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA > >> > > > > >and [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > > L. It seems that Frank is a psychologist who believes that his patients choose to be mental unbalanced.
So he tells them to stop but they don't.
Thankfully I am neither mentally unbalanced nor his patient :-) Sorry my being openly Christian continues to offend you, Frank (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 21:43 GMT > >> > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA > >> > > > > >and [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > You are wasting your words and time. "Dr." Chung is mentally unbalanced > and no amount of asking, pleading or cajoling will get him to stop. I recognize that. I know the type.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 17:56 GMT > > > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and > all [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > It isd a form of pity. However, I refuse to be her victim. I suspect you often feel the victim.
> > > Ms. Rosenthal believes that it is acceptable behavior to write to my > > > wife in a feeble and pathetic attempt to stifle my free speech. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > There is no irony. I *requested* that you do not proslytize to me. I did > nothing to stop you. I again *request* that you cease. Are you requesting that I give up my right to free speech ?
> > > Now, do not respond to my posts, if you are going to tack on your > screed. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Like I said, no irony. Just your inability to recognize another's point of > view. My point of view here is irony.
As you wrote you seem unable to recognize it.
However, I recognize your displeasure.
Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
Again, may what I have written continue to enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 21:45 GMT > > > > > > > >Agreed. There are those who expect perfection from the FDA and > > all [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > I suspect you often feel the victim. If so, I am one nasty victim.
> > > > Ms. Rosenthal believes that it is acceptable behavior to write to my > > > > wife in a feeble and pathetic attempt to stifle my free speech. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Are you requesting that I give up my right to free speech ? Speak freely to anyone. I have the right to ask you not to preach to me. If you cannot *respect* that, then it shows just how un-Christian you are.
> > > > Now, do not respond to my posts, if you are going to tack on your > > screed. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > However, I recognize your displeasure. But choose to continue the dispelasing behavior.
How obnoxiuous.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Dec 2004 23:40 GMT > >> > >>New York Times > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > And that little nonsense about a process for distinguishing between the two? > The public's not concerned with that. IOW, folks want Lord Jesus Christ to take over the FDA :-)
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:01 GMT > > >> > >>New York Times > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > IOW, folks want Lord Jesus Christ to take over the FDA :-) Nope. I like government and religion kept in their own houses. Please keep yours in yours.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 14:12 GMT > > > >> > >>New York Times > > > >> > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > Nope. I like government and religion kept in their own houses. Please keep > yours in yours. Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Mark Probert - 24 Dec 2004 14:41 GMT > > Nope. I like government and religion kept in their own houses. Please keep > > yours in yours. > > Sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug): Your being openly Christian is not what I found offensive. I specifically stated that your response was, IMNSHO, proselytizing, and that is what I found offensive. I trust that you are not claiming that being "openly Christian" is the equivalent of proselytizing. If so, then your definition, which is not the same as others, is offensive.
And, even after I asked you not to do it again, you did it. That is offensive.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 15:46 GMT > > > Nope. I like government and religion kept in their own houses. Please > keep [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And, even after I asked you not to do it again, you did it. That is > offensive. Again, sorry my being openly Christian offends you (shrug):
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
And, may what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Shawn Hearn - 25 Dec 2004 15:50 GMT > > > Nope. I like government and religion kept in their own houses. Please > keep [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > And, even after I asked you not to do it again, you did it. That is > offensive. Don't bother arguing with this moron "Dr. Chung." He's like a Stepford wife. He just repeats tired old cult classics and spews absolute nonsense. An original thought, Dr. Chung never had.
MrPepper11 - 23 Dec 2004 16:07 GMT Remember Rezulin - the "miracle" diabetes pill on the FDA's fast-track approval, now cited as a suspect in at least 556 deaths. But heck, it made $2.1 billion in sales for Warner-Lambert. The sordid tale is still online at http://www.latimes.com/rezulin
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 23 Dec 2004 15:59 GMT > >>New York Times > >>December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > /dan There really is no pleasing everybody so it is wiser to simply seek out God's will.
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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Philippic - 24 Dec 2004 01:13 GMT > There really is no pleasing everybody so it is wiser to simply seek out > God's will. Well, there's clearly no point looking in that so-called 'good book' for it: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/howto.html
> May what I have written enlighten you and others. > > Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory And here too: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe, How nice! And yet somehow we don't see you 'giving away all that you have'. Why is that, I wonder...?
Philippic
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 03:57 GMT > > There really is no pleasing everybody so it is wiser to simply seek out > > God's will. > > Well, there's clearly no point looking in that so-called > 'good book' for it: > http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/howto.html For those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible teaches how to seek out God's will in what is going on in the world. For those who are close-minded, the Holy Bible shows only the flaws and imperfections of man. God is not the God of dead but of the living. (Luke 20:38).
> > May what I have written enlighten you and others. > > > > Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory > > And here too: > http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ Not really in comparison to this:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
> > Servant to the humblest person in the universe, > > How nice! And yet somehow we don't see you 'giving > away all that you have'. Why is that, I wonder...? I do not have anything that does not belong to God.
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
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bearclaw@cruller.invalid - 24 Dec 2004 04:03 GMT > For those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible teaches > how to seek out God's will in what is going on in the world. What does it teach for those not so filled?
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 04:12 GMT > > For those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible teaches > > how to seek out God's will in what is going on in the world. > > What does it teach for those not so filled? That man (including the skeptical reader) is flawed, fallible, and judgmental.
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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bearclaw@cruller.invalid - 24 Dec 2004 04:14 GMT > > > For those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible teaches > > > how to seek out God's will in what is going on in the world. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That man (including the skeptical reader) is flawed, fallible, and > judgmental. As are his publications. This is news? Further responses limited to misc.consumers as I hate crossposting.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Dec 2004 04:39 GMT > > > > For those who are filled with the Holy Spirit, the Holy Bible teaches > > > > how to seek out God's will in what is going on in the world. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > As are his publications. This is news? No. This is my answer to your question.
> Further responses limited to > misc.consumers as I hate crossposting. Your choice.
May God bless those who read the following:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
May what I have written enlighten you and others.
Such is the work being done here for Christ's glory (http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
-- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/
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GMCarter - 24 Dec 2004 10:15 GMT snip....>
>I'm neither for nor against the FDA, BUT, wasn't it just a few years >ago we were all bitching that the FDA took TOO long to approve drugs? > >Now, we're all bitching and moaning that they're not during their job and >letting drugs on the market too soon! Ah--there's a number of issues here.
Drugs for life-threatening conditions such as AIDS and some cancers NEED faster approval to help people obtain access. Such accelerated approval is predicated on the companies doing larger Phase IV follow-up studies to evaluate toxicities that may not be picked up in smaller studies.
Companies usually renege.
Meantime, Pharma spends inordinate resources on products for chronic but not necessarily imminently life threatening conditions such as arthritis pain and cholesterol. These require life long use of drugs and are MUCH more profitable. But studies are usually 6 months or a year and do not take into account polypharmacy (use of many drugs) and long duration. Thus, they'll miss the longer term toxicities.
Which suits them fine as long as they can assure multi-billion dollar per year profits on overcharging drastically for these medications.
They answer only to the parasites of Wall Street, not to the mission of people's health and what will best serve individuals facing chronic or acute conditions.
George M. Carter
zwalanga - 23 Dec 2004 18:03 GMT > > New York Times > > December 23, 2004 [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] > > TC Have to make a little noise to mollify the masses (and Probert). This is just the dogs running the grounds. Keep Bush safe.
Zee
John 'the Man' - 23 Dec 2004 18:00 GMT > F.D.A. Calls Ads for Cholesterol Pill Crestor 'False and Misleading' > By GARDINER HARRIS 'False and Misleading' is coded lingo for practices of conventional medicine that qualifies as Quackery.
Just my opinion, but I am right as usual. :) -- john gohde http://groups-beta.google.com/group/Natural-Health
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