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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / November 2004Plavix (is my doctor a quack?)
My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood pressure meds, high cholesteral meds, asprin and Plavix. I told him after my first follow up that I didn't want to be on the medications because I hate taking drugs as I figure they mess your system up and I don't have high blood pressure or high cholesteral. He checked my charts and said..."I'll be darned your cholesteral is great and your pressure is nothing to be concerned about but we do give everyone that has this procedure this basic med package." I told him again that I didn't want them and he took me off but kept me on Plavix and asprin of which he said I would probably be on "FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!". From what I have read Plavix should only be neccessary for 3-6 months. I have been taking them for one and one half years and I have developed terrible nose bleeds and bruise very easy. I am 43 and in very good health and with the exception of the blood clot in my heart that started all this I never get sick..not even colds. I no longer see him because he sent me to collection because I couldn't pay my total bill. So I think I am going to stop taking the Plavix and stick to asprin and B-Complex as well as fish. Does anyone offer any suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart condition with nutrition? Thanks > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart > condition with nutrition? There is no nutritional replacement for either aspirin or Plavix. Sorry. (No, your cardiologist is not a quack. Many newer stents do require longer or even an indefinite time on Plavix). > Thanks You are welcome. All praises belong to my heavenly Father, Whom I love with all my heart soul, mind and strength :-) Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 > > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > Is this spam? > http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 Dr. Chung. Thanks for replying but could you expound on what conditions might call for being on Plavix for an entire lifetime when most people that are prescribed take it for only a few months? I did read on one of your posts that nutrition could be an alternative to taking medications. I have also read how asprin can be just as effective as a blood thinner for treating what ever it is that causes blood clots. I have no cholesteral problem. What does cause blood clots? I hope I didn't offend you with the referance of my doctor being a quak. Thanks for anything you can offer in depth. >> > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including >> > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Thanks for anything you can offer in depth. I'm not Dr. Chung, but I'll tell you what little I know. I'm sure he can offer you a better answer. One answer is that studies have shown that the two together do a better job. For example, http://www.firstcoastnews.com/health/articles/2002-11-18/bloodthinner.asp Another answer is that chemically they work differently to achieve the same result. So the effect is, in a sense, additive. I don't know why the time period has been extended beyond a year. It would seem to me that a drug eluting stent becomes equivalent to a bear metal stent after 2 months or so. I'm curious about that also. But I have heard that is now the practice. Bill Hello Phillip, I have'nt much to add except that platelet aggregation can cause problems with stents (ie clog them up). I had a stent implanted in my left carotid artery, and was on warfarin,aspirin and plavix for about 9 months, when they dropped the plavix. Originally I was told that I would be on it a long time, and I don't know why the change of mind. Two years on I still take warfarin (because of atrial fibrillation), and the aspirin, presumably to stop the platelets getting too friendly around the stent. I have had no problems with these drugs although on occasion the warfin dose needs adjustment. I don't think there are hard and fast rules regarding this sort of problem : at one point the vascular surgeon who inserted the stent thought differently from my cardiologist about the anti-coagulation regime. This did not cause me to lose faith in either of the medicos - in fact I appreciated their input into the problem. Regards, Barry. > > > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > > > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Thanks for anything you can offer in depth. > > > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > > > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > conditions might call for being on Plavix for an entire lifetime when > most people that are prescribed take it for only a few months? (1) Drug eluting stents (especially when there is suspicion of incomplete or no endothelialization). (2) Brachytherapy. (3) Cerebrovascular disease especially in the setting of TIAs. > I did > read on one of your posts that nutrition could be an alternative to > taking medications. I have also read how asprin can be just as > effective as a blood thinner for treating what ever it is that causes > blood clots. I have no cholesteral problem. What does cause blood > clots? Rupture of atherosclerotic plaques. > I hope I didn't offend you with the referance of my doctor > being a quak. You didn't. > Thanks for anything you can offer in depth. You are welcome. All praises belong to my heavenly Father, Whom I love with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength :-) May God bless you on this Lord's day, dear Phillip whom I love, in Christ's holy name. Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 I too was placed on plavix after 3 stents installed a couple of months ago. I was told that it was for keeping clots off the kind of stent used. I was already on aspirin, toprol, folic acid, lipitor, lisinopril from heart attack 3 years ago. Total chol was around 114 and other numbers were just fine in checkup 2 months ago. What I cannot understand is how I tossed a clot into brain and had a stroke 2 weeks ago. Have regained left side of body but still have double vision. On even more meds now - cumodin... Never thought that the heart condition would cause a stroke too. Oh ya 53 y.o. male with no family history of this stuff. Non smoker. Not overweight either. Who knows what the long term affects of these drugs are??? Oreo > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart > condition with nutrition? Thanks Are you blaming your stroke on the medications? How do you explain the coronary artery disease requiring angioplasty and 3 stents? > I too was placed on plavix after 3 stents installed a couple of months ago. > I was told that it was for keeping clots off the kind of stent used. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart > > condition with nutrition? Thanks {Top posting to follow Oreo's choice.} But this is terrible. Why are we given these drugs if they prevent nothing? You had a heart attack. THEN you were put on drugs which presumably were meant to prevent further incidences, only to have another incident requiring three stents installed, and THEN a stroke from a blood clot in the brain. What did the meds--aspirin, toprol, folic acid, lipitor, lisinopril, which all surely must have devastating side effects--do apart from enriching the coffers of their respective pharmas? I am so sorry these things have happened to you. You deserve better. We *all* deserve better. Zee > I too was placed on plavix after 3 stents installed a couple of months ago. > I was told that it was for keeping clots off the kind of stent used. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart > > condition with nutrition? Thanks Where in his post did he describe "side effects"??? Where did he mention stroke? I think you are mixing up the posts of Phillip and Oreo123. The problem with all these posts is lack of information. We have no idea what their medical history is, their blood pressure, their weight, smoking, diabetes, peripheral vascular disease, other risk factors. Did he take the medication as prescribed? What was the result of that treatment? Was his blood pressure at goal? Cholesterol reduced? Did he have carotid stenosis? Atrial fibrillation? Cerebral aneurysm? Did he flip a clot, pop a plaque, dissect an artery, or have an aneurysm leak? How old is Phillip? Oreo123 says he is 53.....you are trying to undo a something that took a lifetime to occur in just a couple months. Having a heart attack then being treated kind of puts the cart in front of the horse, don't you think? How about trying to prevent the heart attack to begin with? Secondary Prevention Trials with specific statins show they reduce events.....REDUCE not eliminate. Trials with specific ACE inhibitors show they REDUCE, not eliminate events. Trials with BETA BLOCKERS show they REDUCE, not eliminate events. Exercise, weight loss, diet, blood sugar control, blood pressure reduction, cholesterol control, all REDUCE, not eliminate risk of events (re: Jim Fix). Zee, heads up...not everyone who takes a specific medication has "devastating side effects"...... Ed > {Top posting to follow Oreo's choice.} > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Zee This is just Debbie Downer's style. If she can save *one* person from having devastating side effects, then her job is done. (I used to refer to her posts as a "crusade"). Unfortunately, her zeal to enlighten blinds her to the reality that some of these medicines actually do *help* people and the statistical significance of serious side effects is extremely small. You raise a very good point: newsgroup medical diagnosis, especially by laypeople, is a dangerous venture. L. > Where in his post did he describe "side effects"??? > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] >> >> Zee > This is just Debbie Downer's style. If she can save *one* person from > having devastating side effects, then her job is done. (I used to refer > to her posts as a "crusade"). Unfortunately, her zeal to enlighten blinds > her to the reality that some of these medicines actually do *help* people > and the statistical significance of serious side effects is extremely > small. > > You raise a very good point: newsgroup medical diagnosis, especially by > laypeople, is a dangerous venture. > > L. You are on record here as saying you began using statins in 1995. In 2001 you had your first episode of heart arrythmia. Drug Warnings : http://tinyurl.com/5uyd5 Adverse cardiovascular effects reported in patients receiving statin therapy include chest pain, hypertension, and angina pectoris. Palpitation, vasodilation, syncope, postural hypotension, peripheral edema, and arrhythmia have been reported ... . /HNG-CoA reductase inhibitors/ [McEvoy, G.K. (ed.). American Hospital Formulary Service- Drug Information 2002. Bethesda, MD: American Society of Health-System Pharmacists, Inc. 2002 (Plus Supplements).1763]**PEER REVIEWED** > > Where in his post did he describe "side effects"??? > > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > >> > >> Zee {Top posting to follow Ed's preference.} Oreo said he had a stroke after he had been taking the medications. We don't know that the medications lessened or prevented anything. All we *know* is...he was taking the meds. He had events. Those meds do indeed have potential for side effect. But presumably Oreo chose to take risk of those side effects because he hoped they would lessen or prevent events. Apparently, he rolled the dice and seven went home with some other guy. Yes. Oreo could have posted to smc in a rare booze, debauchery and pork chop free moment. We only know what he's told us. And he's told us he had normal cholesterol leves and no family risk. He had his heart attack--one of the more than 50 per cent who do with no risks--and all the subsequent events with a normal cholesterol level and a truckload of meds. Zee > Where in his post did he describe "side effects"??? > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > > > Zee Here it is in a nutshell.... No family history of heart disease no stroke. At 49 I had blocked right coronary artery heart attack... Male, non smoker, 5'8" 180 pounds. Arrived too late and just cath'd. Placed on lipitor, folic acid, lisinopril, toprol (originally metoprolol)... Three years later - Sept 04 had stress test and cath'd. Placed 3 stents. One artery - left side - had gone from 40 to 80 percent blocked in 3 years and was stented. Other stent was from heart attack which was now closed to 90 percent. Plus another stent downstream. Was placed on plavix. Then almost 3 weeks ago had a stroke. Had double vision and then left side went numb. Regained left side - vision is still double. Placed on cumodin. In hosp they found hole between heart chambers that 20 percent of us have. They looked at legs for clots and found nothing. Here are chol numbers before 3 stents installed and before the stroke... Yes I modified diet intensly but we are not discussing that here. Well yet. 5/28/04 Friday. B.P. 100 over 64 and heart rate was 56. Chol 111 <200 mg/dl Trig 65 <150 mg/dl HDL-C 42 >41 mg/dl LDL-C 56 <100 mg/dl Risk factor 2.6 0-5.1 PSA .43 0 - 4.0 ng/dl And 4 years ago not fasting these were the numbers... total 239 hdl is 39 ratio is 6.1 I cannot understand why I had a stroke while being so good with diet and meds. One more mistake was not having long term disabilty insurance as I am , well was, self employed. I had someone tell me yesterday that doctors get a commission from drug companies for placing someone on drugs. Is that true? Supposedly that was reported in AARP.? > {Top posting to follow Ed's preference.} > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >> > >> > Zee You are the exception rather than the rule. I'd be curious to know your doctor's explanation for all this. There may be no explanation, although I wonder the role the Septal Defect played in this. As for a commission for all the prescriptions I write.....All I can say is "I wish!"....then I would be worrying how to pay my daughter's college tuition.... The answer is no, we don't get paid for the prescriptions we write. Some companies offer a fee to enroll patient's in "studies"...as Zee pointed out. I certainly haven't seen any of that cash... Ed > Here it is in a nutshell.... > [quoted text clipped - 128 lines] > >> > > >> > Zee The sentence below that begins with "I WISH" should read: I wish!"....then I would NOT be worrying how to pay my daughter's college tuition.... > You are the exception rather than the rule. > [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > > >> > > > >> > Zee We know Ed we know what you meant. But lessee...you have a couple other college educations coming up? Don't misplace that elevating pen. Could become a collector's item, especially if the drug is recalled. P.S. I think you're beginning to grow on me. Don't want you to worry.... Zee Colourin' with Deep Purple > The sentence below that begins with "I WISH" should read: > [quoted text clipped - 163 lines] > > > >> > > > > >> > Zee I am flattered you remembered..... > We know Ed we know what you meant. But lessee...you have a couple other > college educations coming up? Don't misplace that elevating pen. Could [quoted text clipped - 225 lines] > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Zee > Here it is in a nutshell.... > > No family history of heart disease no stroke. At 49 I had blocked right > coronary artery heart attack... Male, non smoker, 5'8" 180 pounds. Here you may possibly be 40 lbs heavier than "ideal." > Arrived > too late and just cath'd. Placed on lipitor, folic acid, lisinopril, toprol [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > B.P. 100 over 64 and heart rate was 56. Optimal. > Chol 111 <200 mg/dl Optimal. > Trig 65 <150 mg/dl Optimal. > HDL-C 42 >41 mg/dl Not optimal (> 50 is optimal). > LDL-C 56 <100 mg/dl Optimal. > Risk factor 2.6 0-5.1 > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > total 239 Not optimal. > hdl is 39 Not optimal. > ratio is 6.1 What were the triglycerides ? > I cannot understand why I had a stroke while being so good with diet and > meds. Quite possibly underlying metabolic syndrome (MetS) may not have been addressed. What have been the values of your fasting blood glucose ? > One more mistake was not having long term disabilty insurance as I am > , well was, self employed. > > I had someone tell me yesterday that doctors get a commission from drug > companies for placing someone on drugs. Is that true? No, it is not true. Supposedly that was > reported in AARP.? AARP is not a news agency. Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 Chungy boy is a quack and not even a real doctor... ANYMORE, not even on tv. You should run from anything he has to say. Chungy boy and his advice will get you in big trouble...... > > Here it is in a nutshell.... > > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > Is this spam? > http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 > Chungy boy is a quack and not even a real doctor... ANYMORE, not even on tv. > You should run from anything he has to say. Chungy boy and his advice will > get you in big trouble...... It seems you are yet another Bob Pastorio wannabe (rolling eyes upward). May God continue to give me strength in Christ's blessed name. Amen. It is written in Ephesians 2: 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. All is a waste of time until you find the way to eternal life with the Creator of the universe. When you do, there is no waste of time because there will be an infinite amount of it. Walking about aimlessly thinking it is *your* time, *your* money, *your* lot, *your* labor, *your* profit, and *your* power that you are using is tantamount to self-worship. For Christ lights up the way through John 14: 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me..." This bring us back again to the following very simple decision tree for the untruthful folks such as yourself, neighbor, who have chosen to walk in the "dark": (1) Accept Christ. Risk: Nothing. Benefits: Salvation, purposeful life, eternal life, unimaginable riches in God's eternal kingdom. (2) Reject Christ. Risk: Eternal separation from God. Eternal torment of your soul by satan. Benefits: Nothing. Again, one has to conclude that those (ie you, Carey, Steve, Bob, Zee, Frank, Hawki, Rolando, Don et al) who would reject Christ have not thought out their decision *logically*. Would suggest you cast a glance at Bob Pastorio as a special example of untruthfully eloquent self-worship (BTW, Bob remains in my prayers out of Christian love) who is being driven to madness by my ignoring him (http://makeashorterlink.com/?V29A236C9 and more recently http://makeashorterlink.com/?V25D312E9). All this power belongs to God who has judged Bob Pastorio with His Word (http://makeashorterlink.com/?G33F51E69). All praises to Him, Whom I love with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength :-) You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love, in Christ's holy name. May you accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, someday, so that you too will escape satan's rule and torment of your soul after you die. Please do consider the following as your logic should dictate before it is too late: http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 (Please note that God truly made this special link describing that He is the great "I am" and that His message is as simple as the number 2 which is a number between 1 to 9 and reminds us of His 2 commandments, the 2 arms of the cross, the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2 finger sign of the Prince of Peace [who remains *V*ictorious over death and satan], and the 2PD Approach. Let it not ever be written that Christ did not make His presence known here on Usenet :-) Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 >>Chungy boy is a quack and not even a real doctor... ANYMORE, not even on tv. >>You should run from anything he has to say. Chungy boy and his advice will >>get you in big trouble...... > > It seems you are yet another Bob Pastorio wannabe (rolling eyes upward). Roll whatever you want, fraud-boy. The world has spotted you for the sanctimonious fake you are. Your OCD Scrupulosity (google it) and your open hatred *prove* your falsity and your dementia. Your endless lies mark you for the condemnation of God who abhors malicious cranks bearing false witness. Have a lovely day. Bob > Here it is in a nutshell.... > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > companies for placing someone on drugs. Is that true? Supposedly that was > reported in AARP.? Yes pharma gives "gifts" to physicians who presecribe their meds. Office equipment, from pens to computers, trips to the local watering hole and the Bahamas, and pay huge consultancy fees for their "rent-a-quote" doctors to go on speaking junkets and author cholesterol guidelines which make patients out of us all. An article from AARP on The Truth About the Drug Companies the former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine. Available through Amazon.com http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/prescription/Articles/a2004-09-13-drugmakersdope.html http://tinyurl.com/552lj ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And from www.nofreelunch.org THE BULLSHIT PARADE Subject: You missed the biggest problem Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 18:53:51 -0600 From: <xxxx@wt.net> To: <justsayno@nofreelunch.org> The worst problem with drug promotion lies not with the sales reps but with industry-funded research. I personally witnessed the excesses for 8 years while on the faculty of a major medical school. This operates at several levels. First, one must understand that in academics teaching is like catching fly balls and publishing is like hitting home runs. They didn't pay Hank Aaron for his fielding. It isn't just the publishing and reflected glory to the institution that drives academicians to do research. The institution takes a cut of every grant, whether it's industry money or an NIH grant. The percentages vary, but they are rather large; a $10MM grant yields several million for the hospital, school, or whatever institution the grantee works for. Those who bring in grant money have *power*. What can they get with that power? A raise, a bigger office, private secretary, less time actually having to teach residents or touch a patient (when I was in academics it seemed to be a matter of prestige to *not* carry a pager). Also, although it is difficult to directly gain monetarily from grant money, one can usually buy a few new computers or other toys that may find their way home. Publishing favorable articles leads to invitations to speak at fun places - all expenses paid - and receive nice honoraria to boot. Yes, the drug companies fly private practitioners to nice places, but who are they listening to? Impartial lecturers? No - they are listening to the drug whores who will say nice things about the product. Some of the drug whores I met during my own march in the bullshit parade were big names in the field, including departmental chairmen. Some of the biggest names in my specialty are, in my opinion, on the take. The people who really get wined and dined at these meetings are the "mouthpieces", not the attendees. One time I was even mailed a lecture, complete with slides to present, at a sponsored meeting at a very nice resort. When I balked and insisted on giving my own lecture with my own slides it caused a major storm. Another time, one of my colleagues asked another colleague to do the statistics for his drug company data. When the results came back unflattering he asked if perhaps a different statistical test might be tried. If a researcher plays the game well, publishing flattering studies and giving lots of positive lectures, he might get a real plum: a "consultant's contract", or a position on the "advisory board". This can mean tens ofthousands of dollars of income per year for very little actual work. Therefore the real danger is in the poisonous influence the private sector has on the generation of scientifi studies. Bad results and balanced lectures are not rewarded. Sadly, with the drying up of public funds for research in the past two decades, academic institutions have had to rely more and more on private funding. When I graduated medical school in 1979 medical journals did not require financial disclosure. Now you see it everywhere - a sad reflection of the influence of commercial research funding, and the closest anyone will come to actually admitting we have a serious problem. When a drug rep buys you lunch you know you are being fed a sales pitch. The truly insidious aspect of all this is that published peer-reviewed articles funded by drug companies are usually taken at face value, and the lectures are given by drug whores (after all, they are the ones with funding and have written all the articles - they are the "authority" by virtue of the sheer volume they have published). The damage done by this misinformation takes years to undo. > > {Top posting to follow Ed's preference.} > > [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > >> > > >> > Zee > > Here it is in a nutshell.... > > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > > Yes pharma gives "gifts" to physicians who presecribe their meds. There are some companies (pharma) that give "gifts" to physicians in hopes that these physicians will change their prescribing patterns. This is not the same as a commission. This is called marketing. It is analogous to getting a free balloon at a grocery store compliments of a local bank that wants your business. Judge it as you will (shrug). You remain in my prayers, dear Zee whom I love, in Christ's holy name. Hope you have received the book I have sent you by now. Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 > I too was placed on plavix after 3 stents installed a couple of months ago. > I was told that it was for keeping clots off the kind of stent used. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > What I cannot understand is how I tossed a clot into brain and had a stroke > 2 weeks ago. Have regained left side of body but still have double vision. Would suspect paroxysmal atrial fibrillation. > On even more meds now - cumodin... It seems your doctor(s) suspect the same. > Never thought that the heart condition would cause a stroke too. Oh ya 53 > y.o. male with no family history of this stuff. Non smoker. Not overweight > either. Once you have proven yourself to have heart disease, a negative family history no longer matters. > Who knows what the long term affects of these drugs are??? Your doctor(s) do. May God bless you on this Lord's day, dear neighbor whom I love, in Christ's holy name. Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 > My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including > Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart > condition with nutrition? Thanks check google under "de lorgeril" and also under "mediterranean diet".. >> My cardiologist put me on a whole array of medications including >> Plavix after an angioplasty and stint insertion. They included blood [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > check google under "de lorgeril" and also under "mediterranean diet".. It may well help in other ways, but I don't think that will help with blood clotting - unless you perhaps have information to the contrary. Bill >>check google under "de lorgeril" and also under "mediterranean diet".. > > It may well help in other ways, but I don't think that will help with blood > clotting - unless you perhaps have information to the contrary. > > Bill You're right, of course. Incidentally, what my doc said about plavix, is that its effectiveness was about the same as aspirin, except that it doesn't irritate the stomach.. >They included blood >pressure meds, high cholesteral meds, asprin and Plavix. I told him [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >suggestions or advice or have any information about treating heart >condition with nutrition? Thanks I got a stent back in September and its a drug coated stent. I was told to take the Plavix for 6 months. Many stents my regular doctor said only required 1 month of Plavix. I didn't have high blood pressure so they didn't give me any high blood pressure medication. I did have a cholesterol count of 275 though so I have been put on Crestor but that is going to be changed to another cholesterol medication shortly because Crestor isn't controlling it properly. I too hate taking drugs and I worry about what has caused this. My family hasn't had a lot of history with heart problems. I do think your doctor is a quack or he would have paid more attention to your tests and not be giving you high blood pressure and cholesterol medication when you didn't need it. Time to find a new doc. As for this "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" I have been lurking here lately and I see him as a troll. Every newsgroup seems to have a troll and this one has him. If he was a real doctor he would be busy out making money and not posting "How to become a Christian" here. He would be out saving the world. I would say you need to find a new doctor and be checked out. The heart is a little scarey to mess with. Best of luck to you. Sigh...... The "cholesterol drug and blood pressure drugs" have value beyond their "indicated" usage. Statins and ACE inhibitors (a class of blood pressure medications like enalapril) have anti-inflammatory effects, help stabilize plaque to reduce risk of plaque rupture, and help improve endothelial dysfunction. the Heart Protection Study demonstrated benefit regardless of cholesterol level in diabetics. PROVE-IT and REVERSAL also demonstrated risk reduction. REVERSAL, I believe, showed plaque REGRESSION when using 80mg Lipitor...imagine shrinking those nasty coronary artery clogging plaques.... The HOPE Trial demonstrated risk reduction with the ACE inhibitor Altace that supposedly goes beyond "mere" blood pressure lowering (the pleomorphic/"pixie dust" effect). CURE, I believe, demonstrated using Plavix for up to a year after an "event". And, one would think an antiplatelet medication would be needed after the stent is done elucidating it's medication...... There are other trials........just hit Medscape or similar website and read them. As for Chung.....he is a cardiologist in Atlanta I believe (I'll be down there in a couple weeks). He is also a born again Christian how is a bit overzealous but, essentially, harmless. CRESTOR.....you can't get you cholesterol down using the most potent statin available today? You need to find out why....that is "what caused this"...and a family history is a family history whether it's one or a dozen relatives. Diet, exercise....did they at least offer a cardiac rehab program? > >They included blood > >pressure meds, high cholesteral meds, asprin and Plavix. I told him [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Best of luck to you. > Sigh...... > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > relatives. Diet, exercise....did they at least offer a cardiac rehab > program? Would concur with the above (except about being overzealous :-). Please feel free to give me a call when you are in Atlanta (my number is on my web site) and perhaps we'll be able to get together, God willing. Servant to the humblest person in the universe, Andrew -- Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist http://www.heartmdphd.com/ ** Who is the humblest person in the universe? http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 What is all this about? http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48 Is this spam? http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867 |
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