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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / November 2009low-dose aspirin being questioned
"The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and strokes in individuals yet to develop obvious cardiovascular disease, should be abandoned." <http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/169546.php> Bill  SignatureGarden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA > "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports >that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bill The need for aspirin is possibly obviated even for secondary prevention in diabetics when the VAT is lost: http://WDJW.net/BeSmart Love in the truth, Andrew <>< SignatureAndrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Heart Doctor and Author of "Trust the Truth:" http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c? What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315? Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de? "The need for aspirin is possibly obviated even for secondary prevention in diabetics when the VAT is lost:" And the first step is to enter into an exercise program to that end. Exercise has been shown to selectively and before calorie restriction has a significant effect to reduce vat. Once in place, what one eats along with maintaining normal weight and the exercise will have continuing benefit. > "The need for aspirin is possibly obviated even for secondary > prevention in diabetics when the VAT is lost:" > > And the first step is to enter into an exercise program to that end. > Exercise has been shown to selectively and before calorie restriction > has a significant effect to reduce vat. BS. Complete, stink and all. On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> wrote: > > "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > >that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and > >strokes in individuals yet to develop obvious cardiovascular disease, > >should be abandoned." > > ><http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/169546.php> I do not agree with low dose aspirin for anyone. Approximately 25% of the population is aspirin sensitive, a potentially symptom free condition that predisposes the individual to an *increased* risk of MI. Proper intake of omega3 EFAs, vitamin C, B vitamins, and magnesium will dramatically lower the risk of fatal cardiac events without the risk of side effects. > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > magnesium will dramatically lower the risk of fatal cardiac events > without the risk of side effects. Citations? Thanks. On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:06:59 -0600, MU wrote > Citations? > > Thanks. Since you seem to support Chung's 2 pound diet, do you have any citations from the recognised medical literature and not simply what Chung has written? Thanks. > On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:06:59 -0600, MU wrote > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Thanks. The only one that supports Chung's 2 pound (?) diet is Chung as far as I know. I dimly recall it being called the 2 omer diet by Chung. The fixed weight intake diet is pretty silly. Compare a high veggie diet to a higher fat diet and you can get wildly different calorie counts. a neighbor wrote: > The only one that supports Chung's 2 pound (?) diet > is Chung as far as I know. The 2PD-OMER Approach is not a diet: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for His compelling you to unwittingly reveal that you do not know very much. Such is the condition of the perishing because GOD remains the Source of all true knowledge and wisdom. There are presently worldwide more than 625,550 people who either have achieved or are achieving optimal health using the 2PD-OMER Approach, whose written description and application has been allowed by the moderators for posting on the New England Journal of Medicine web site thereby providing additional evidence of others supporting this simple method of eating the right amount of food daily: http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/index.php?p=1364#comment-419 Be hungrier, which truly is healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients: http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeSmart Truth is reality: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/459c9c0ed3b24ca2? There is joy in being used by GOD to change hearts: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c? May GOD soften your heart, neighbor, so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus: http://T3WiJ.com Amen. Love in the truth, Andrew <>< SignatureAndrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Heart Doctor and Author of "Trust the Truth:" http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c? What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315? Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de? Truth: The two pound diet,aka 2pd etc. is quack science. It has flaws of both fact and logic. It was invented to fit a preexisting agenda and does not flow from evidence based on research. The diet inventor has many times been appraised of his flaws but clings to them for reasons other then science or valid medical practice All of this nonsense of measure by weight or volume comes from the agenda fitting, not well established research. But sadly even the agenda is based on misunderstood and misapplied information. Even when corrected, the author of the agenda for nothing but pride and vain face saving can not deal with that truth. The weight part came from a failed knowledge of a particular verse in scripture. When shown to be wrong, he promptly said he had been given a new interpretation to set the record straight. And of course this new information led where the agenda demands. Bottom line, ignore any reference to the two pound diet,aka 2 pd etc. and stick with established information and sources of expert authorities which do not include the vanity of vanity distorting reality in this case. There is a larger problem then misinformation obvious to anyone familiar with the inventor's posts. May God bless and protect and heal. Bottom line concerning your feigned issues with the 2PD-OMER Approach: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ba8379f6c69b4310? <>< "The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33) Amen. A Spirit-guided exegesis of Proverbs 16:33 ... http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/085dcffcafb7e4e2? Nothing happens by chance because everything happens only as GOD allows it (Ecclesiastes 9:11): http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/21527d1832960109? Sign that GOD can easily unleash an H5N1 Pandemic, for which there is no vaccine, at any time: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a4581567229974c0? What we are teaching to prepare folks in our local communities for the probable eventuality of a Pan-Flu virus deadlier than the current H1N1 Pandemic virus (i.e. one for which there is no vaccine): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfmkax1wbRU How to not be fearful: Trust the truth, Who is Jesus !!! http://T3WiJ.com May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2009th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as our Messiah, the Son of Man ... ... by being hungrier: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689? Hunger is wonderful ! ! ! It's how we know the answer to the question "What does Jesus want?" (WDJW): http://WDJW.net Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/52a3db8576495806? Hunger is the physical "hearts burning within us" feeling that unlocks the 4 mysteries of the "Road to Emmaus" adventure described in Luke 24: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/386f56c2f6d0b154? Moreover, being hungrier is the key to being Jesus' disciples: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/bd20d7c4fe878897? Being physically hungrier is how we will physically recognize Jesus when He physically returns for us to meet Him physically in the air: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/ffa6609710ea9587? "Blessed are you who hunger NOW... ... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21) Amen. Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360? Jesus is LORD, forever !!! http://JiL4ever.net Be hungrier, which is truly healthier especially for diabetics and other patients with heart disease: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb? Marana tha Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Cardiologist and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8? > Compare a high veggie diet > to a higher fat diet and you can get wildly different > calorie counts. Two and two is four. There, we've now exchanged platitudinous truisms. Are we bonding yet? > On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:21:03 -0800 (PST), trigonometry1...@gmail.com | > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > There, we've now exchanged platitudinous truisms. Are we bonding yet? On the MHA that is defined as bonding. If you haven't noticed people are general polarized, out and out loony, or looking for a fight. 4 cups of coffee and one glass of wine............Trig >> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:21:03 -0800 (PST), trigonometry1...@gmail.com | >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > 4 cups of coffee and one glass of wine............Trig I'm speechless. On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:14:00 -0600, MU wrote > Two and two is four. Can also be 11 depending on the base. > On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:14:00 -0600, MU wrote > >> Two and two is four. > > Can also be 11 depending on the base. Yes. Have to learn to think out of the box and not like much of the mindless repetition seen in many of the posts here > > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks. Search on "aspirin resistance" and you'll get thousands of articles, many in pubmed. > > >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > > >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Search on "aspirin resistance" and you'll get thousands of articles, > many in pubmed. Folks with aspirin resistance would require more aspirin and not less to none for the benefit of lowering the risk of fatal cardiac events. Here again is that Spirit-guided thought about faux-christians like you, Peter B.: 2 Peter 2:22 Yes, the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://WDJW.net/CV Bottom line concerning you: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3a93a8d803ceeb62? There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c? May GOD give you, Peter B., a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus: http://T3WiJ.com Amen. Love in the truth, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Heart Doctor and Author of "Trust the Truth:" http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c? What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315? Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de? >>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports >>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Folks with aspirin resistance would require more aspirin and not less > to none for the benefit of lowering the risk of fatal cardiac events. I'd add that he needs to search for the definition of "resistance" v.s. intolerance or w/ever it is he's attempting to relate. I have no idea. > >>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > >>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I'd add that he needs to search for the definition of "resistance" v.s. > intolerance or w/ever it is he's attempting to relate. I have no idea. I referred you to the medical literature in response to your query because the subject is widely discussed there. Sorry I couldn't make it easier for you. >>>>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports >>>>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > because the subject is widely discussed there. Sorry I couldn't make > it easier for you. You didn't "refer me" to anything specific. You pointed at a library and said "go there, seek to prove me right". Get a grip, you haven't the first line of credibility regarding control studies and the validity of their ensuing citations. Btw, "I can read" is not a qualification. LOL > >>>>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > >>>>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > You didn't "refer me" to anything specific. You pointed at a library > and said "go there, seek to prove me right". The term "aspirin resistance" is quite specific to the issue raised and yields more than 130,000 results in a Google query. No one is asking you to prove anything. > Get a grip, you haven't the first line of credibility regarding control > studies and the validity of their ensuing citations. Is that why you asked me for citations? > Btw, "I can read" is not a qualification. LOL That must explain why you didn't bother trying to do so. >>>>>>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports >>>>>>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > and yields more than 130,000 results in a Google query. No one is > asking you to prove anything. Post those for me. I don't believe you. >> Get a grip, you haven't the first line of credibility regarding control >> studies and the validity of their ensuing citations. > > Is that why you asked me for citations? Post those for me. I don't believe you. >> Btw, "I can read" is not a qualification. LOL > > That must explain why you didn't bother trying to do so. Post those for me. I don't believe you. > >>> >>> "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > >>> >>>that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I'd add that he needs to search for the definition of "resistance" v.s. > intolerance or w/ever it is he's attempting to relate. I have no idea. Thru the wonders of the internet I bring you this unchecked bit of info. For some people, aspirin does not have as strong an effect on platelets as for others, an effect known as aspirin resistance or insensitivity. One study has suggested that women are more likely to be resistant than men[107] and a different, aggregate study of 2,930 patients found 28% to be resistant.[108] A study in 100 Italian patients found that of the apparent 31% aspirin resistant subjects, only 5% were truly resistant, and the others were non-compliant.[109] > For some people, aspirin does not have as strong an effect > on platelets as for others, an effect known as aspirin resistance [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > were truly resistant, and the others were > non-compliant.[109] I took low dose aspirin for several years. It seems to have caused the tinnitus I had starting about a year ago. I blamed it on caffeine, which does seem to worsen tinnitus, but even after months of not drinking coffee, I still had the tinnitus. I quit the aspirin a month or two ago, and it's almost gone now. I also learned that aspirin can raise the risk of gout. It may have contributed to a gout flare-up I had shortly before quitting. For me, anyway, having these two risk factors probably means I should avoid the use of aspirin except for short duration use to treat headaches. > "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > means I should avoid the use of aspirin except for > short duration use to treat headaches. I've not been one to take much for headaches. And when I was on PPI meds for GERD, I had at least a mild headache much of the time. Further aspirin and its NSAID kin were contraindicated as I WAS a GERD sufferer. This not to say I haven't used my share of NSAIDs and even aspirin back in the day for knee pain. I got over the knee pain using high dose vitamin B-3. I am not saying this was risk free but rather my stomach could no longer take any more NSAIDs so I tried the B-3 and it worked. And the GERD I got over that or at least completely control it by finally rejecting the conventional PPI meds which had gradually caused ever worsening side effects such that I tried alternative medicine's paradigm of reflux and one of its treatments betaine HCL plus melatonin (largely by chance) and I got better after spend a small fortune on conventional GERD treatment. PPI meds for GERD are sad and nasty joke on the patient. They help somewhat but in time ones becomes dyspeptic and just generally sick. These days I also take MSM, boswellia in a standardized form, and fish oil for my aches and pains. I also take a relatively large of vitamin D for the last 9 years. So you might try NSAIDs and melatonin? In hopes of protecting the gut. Anymore I can't take NSAIDs more than a day and not feel some adverse effects. Or try some the above for headaches? I mean the boswellia and EPA/DHA. Another thing that is said to help reduce the frequency of migraine headaches is high dose riboflavin which should be relatively safe. It seems I've often only tried alternative treatments after conventional treatments had worn out their welcome. Also when I was on PPI meds some of the classic migraine trigger foods could bring on a nasty headache....mainly coffee, chocolate which since I had GERD I mostly avoided anyway. And by the way, I can drink coffee now without ill effect. No GERD, no PPI meds, no headache.........Trig On Nov 9, 1:09 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" > Folks with aspirin resistance would require more aspirin and not less > to none for the benefit of lowering the risk of fatal cardiac events. Wrong! Aspirin resistance is not responsive to more aspirin. Increasing dosage in those individuals will only increase their risk of a fatal event. The fact that one cannot know that one is aspirin resistant amplifies the risk because there may be no apparent symptoms. Please note that I am not the poster who uses "Peter B.- Aboriginal" as his screen name. PeterB wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Wrong! You have been and continue to be wrong: "Platelet response to aspirin as measured by collagen-induced light transmittance aggregation, ADP-induced light transmittance aggregation, PFA-100 (81 mg versus 162 mg, P0.05), and urinary 11- dehydrothromboxane B2 was dose-related (81 mg versus 325 mg, P=0.003)." Source: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/115/25/3156 Here again is that Spirit-guided thought about faux-christians like you, Peter B.: 2 Peter 2:22 Yes, the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://WDJW.net/CV Bottom line concerning you: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3a93a8d803ceeb62? There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c? May GOD give you, Peter B., a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus: http://T3WiJ.com Amen. Love in the truth, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Heart Doctor and Author of "Trust the Truth:" http://www.amazon.com/-/e/B002G22ZWG "... no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit." (1 Cor 12:3) http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/035c93540862751c? What are the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/980b41e6999de315? Only the truth can cure the "hunger is starvation" delusion: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/74281ab7d7ce78de? On Nov 9, 10:33 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lo...@thetruth.com> wrote: > PeterB wrote: > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > dehydrothromboxane B2 was dose-related (81 mg versus 325 mg, > P=0.003)." Which proves nothing about the benefits of aspirin in those who are aspirin resistant. There are plenty of studies proving the failure of aspirin to reduce MI events in a substantial portion of the population. And you can't know if you are one of those people whose resistance to aspirin therapy may become life threatening. PeterB wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> PeterB wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Which proves nothing about the benefits of aspirin in those who are > aspirin resistant. The fact that these investigators still observed a dose response in patients with varying amounts of aspirin resistance supports what the Holy Spirit guided this physician to write earlier and above: "Folks with aspirin resistance would require more aspirin and not less to none for the benefit of lowering the risk of fatal cardiac events." -- Andrew, in the Holy Spirit. Source: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3d12d32824a4df74? Here again is that Spirit-guided thought about faux-christians like you, Peter B.: 2 Peter 2:22 Yes, the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://WDJW.net/CV Bottom line concerning you: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3a93a8d803ceeb62? There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c? May GOD give you, Peter B., a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus: http://T3WiJ.com Amen. Be hungrier, which is truly healthier especially for diabetics and other patients with heart disease: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb? Marana tha Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Cardiologist and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8? On Nov 10, 10:50 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> wrote: > PeterB wrote: > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > patients with varying amounts of aspirin resistance supports what the > Holy Spirit guided this physician to write earlier No, it doesn't. There is no data whatsoever on the effects of your "recommendation" in terms of health outcomes in real people, for one because the parameters of aspirin resistance are still in the early stages of study. Your advice is both misleading and potentially dangerous. PeterB wrote: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > PeterB wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > patients with varying amounts of aspirin resistance supports what the > > Holy Spirit guided this physician to write earlier: "Folks with aspirin resistance would require more aspirin and not less to none for the benefit of lowering the risk of fatal cardiac events." -- Andrew, in the Holy Spirit Source: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3d12d32824a4df74? > No, it doesn't. It does for the discerning who have the understanding that aspirin for secondary prevention remains a critical part of the standard of care supported by the peer-reviewed medical literature: "Aggressive secondary prevention is critical to improving long-term outcomes in patients with ischemic coronary artery disease, cerebrovascular disease, and peripheral artery disease. An essential component of successful secondary prevention is antiplatelet therapy, which in most patient populations consists of aspirin, clopidogrel, aspirin plus clopidogrel, or aspirin plus extended-release dipyridamole." Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19558255 Here again is that Spirit-guided thought about faux-christians like you, Peter B.: 2 Peter 2:22 Yes, the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://WDJW.net/CV Bottom line concerning you: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3a93a8d803ceeb62? There is pure joy in being used by GOD to change hearts: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/8824c8a5b7c7518c? May GOD give you, Peter B., a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26) so that you would be born again of water and Spirit (John 3:3 and 3:5) so that you would come to trust the truth, Who is Jesus: http://T3WiJ.com Amen. Be hungrier, which is truly healthier especially for diabetics and other heart disease patients: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9642aafa0aad16eb? Marana tha Prayerfully in the awesome name of our Messiah, LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-certified Cardiologist and Author of the 2PD-OMER Approach: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f882137d4e2858d8? > On Nov 10, 10:50 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > stages of study. Your advice is both misleading and potentially > dangerous. Let's see, who to believe, who to believe? Hmm, a cardiologist who has been my physician or "Peter The Tool. Hmmm. what do you think, "Peter"? lol >>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Search on "aspirin resistance" and you'll get thousands of articles, > many in pubmed. What? Did you invent a mind-reading search engine? I search for "aspirin resistance" and get proofs that "proper intake of omega3 EFAs, vitamin C, B vitamins, and magnesium will dramatically lower the risk of fatal cardiac events without the risk of side effects." too? lol Pass. > >>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > What? Did you invent a mind-reading search engine? Since I gave you the word string to use, that wouldn't be a logical question, now would it? > I search for > "aspirin resistance" and get proofs that "proper intake of omega3 > EFAs, vitamin C, B vitamins, and magnesium will dramatically > lower the risk of fatal cardiac events without the risk of side > effects." too? The entirety of your query to me was the word "citations" with a question mark. I suppose you expected me to read your mind in order to know exactly which part of my comment you wanted a citation for? Hint: you may need to do more than one search. > lol > > Pass. > > >>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > Pass. MU seems to be a Chung fan. I found MU saying following: "Holier than thou bullshit, Kirkman and you know it. How about telling the rest of the Usenet world about your *decade* long harassment of Dr. Andrew Chung and your criminal faking to be a certified US doctor (which you are not)." Is MU an alter ego for Chung? And no I am not interested enough to check. It seems evident that Chung google stars some of his postings 5 or 6 times. Something I could do if I used my full number of free email addresses. MU and Chung............Trig > MU seems to be a Chung fan. I am Chung. > I found MU saying following: > "Holier than thou bullshit, Kirkman and you know it. > How about telling the rest of the Usenet world about > your *decade* long harassment of Dr. Andrew Chung > and your criminal faking to be a certified US doctor (which > you are not)." Kirkman is Chung. > Is MU an alter ego for Chung? And no I am > not interested enough to check. It seems [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > MU and Chung............Trig Chung and MU. Got it? On Nov 10, 2:58 pm, "trigonometry1...@gmail.com |" <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > > > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > MU and Chung............Trig I believe that Chung (who now admits to posting under different aliases) is a PR goon. He exhibits most of the tactics documented in the "Warning" post. I believe his religious language is designed to interfere with a proper focus on topical discussion. His interaction with advocates of natural medicine is demonstrating a language pattern consistent with those who astroturf for industry. As many suspected, this character is phony on more levels than one. > >>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > >>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Pass. You say "Run the marathon for me and I'll take prize." To convince yourself, you'll have to the work/the reading. 4 cups of coffee and 8 oz of wine..............Trig >>>>> On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >>>>> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > You say "Run the marathon for me and I'll take prize." I do neither. > To convince yourself, you'll have to the work/the reading. > > 4 cups of coffee and 8 oz of wine..............Trig Explains your incoherent postings. >> > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >Search on "aspirin resistance" and you'll get thousands of articles, >many in pubmed. Strange that when I say to search PubMed for "vaccine safety" you say that I haven't provided any citations. Feeling a little (more) hypocritical today? SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com > >> > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > that I haven't provided any citations. Feeling a little (more) > hypocritical today? No, I'm not. You were challenged to produce specific data proving your claims and you hoped a search result using the words "vaccine safety" would pass for evidence. In this case, I merely responded to a general request for citations by suggesting the other poster use an appropriate search string to do his own research. >> >> > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >> >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >a general request for citations by suggesting the other poster use an >appropriate search string to do his own research. Read what you just wrote. I was asked to provide evidence of research into vaccine safety so I provided a link to articles found using that search string in PubMed. You were asked to provide evidence of research into aspirin resistance so you provided a suggestion to search Google for that search string. I realise that you can't do your own research because it might turn up something that disagrees with your mindset, but you don't really have to demonstrate your sophistry so unambiguously. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com On Nov 10, 8:50�pm, Peter Bowditch <myfirstn...@ratbags.com> <snip the usual harassing and spam> Hawking his sicko web sites and lies. Snip the usual nonsense which is a waste of bandwidth > >> Strange that when I say to search PubMed for "vaccine safety" you say > >> that I haven't provided any citations. Feeling a little (more) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Read what you just wrote. I don't have to, idiot, I wrote it. > I was asked to provide evidence of research into vaccine safety > so I provided a link to articles found using that search string in > PubMed. No, Fluffy, that's not what I asked for. I asked you to produce specific data that would support your claims, not merely "evidence of research." Your response, as usual, was to hide behind a search query. > You were asked to provide evidence of research into aspirin > resistance so you provided a suggestion to search Google for that > search string. Because the other poster was not more specific. In fact, he complained that I hadn't read his mind, saying he could not expect to find evidence of nutritional benefits in treatment of heart disease by doing the recommended search. The entirely of his post to me was the word "citations" with a question mark. > I realise that you can't do your own research because it might turn > up something that disagrees with your mindset, but you don't really > have to demonstrate your sophistry so unambiguously. Let us know when find an argument. >> >> Strange that when I say to search PubMed for "vaccine safety" you say >> >> that I haven't provided any citations. Feeling a little (more) [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Let us know when find an argument. Martin - he really IS that stupid. SignaturePeter Bowditch aa #2243 The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com >>> >> > On Nov 3, 12:30 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >>> >> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > something that disagrees with your mindset, but you don't really have > to demonstrate your sophistry so unambiguously. You're wasting your time. Peter blows off then claims the citations exist but refuses to provide even one in 130,000 (his reference). Gee, I dunno. Maybe we give a damn about being accurate. And maybe we don't much care about know-nothing blowhards who throw bad advice and accusations around because they're too emotionally stunted to admit they're just too damned stupid to know what the heck they're talking about. Hey, Peter, ever stop to think for a second that sometimes when it seems like everyone is on your a.s there's a reason for it? And that reason is you? Bill who putters a écrit : > "The latest issue of the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin (DTB) reports > that the use of low-dose aspirin to protect against heart attacks and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bill |
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