Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / May 2008
Daily Spirit-guided thought for 05/25/08
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 May 2008 09:41 GMT http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/0324ee4af292b720?
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
J A - 25 May 2008 15:27 GMT The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in various Mediterranean religious cults. Similarly, virgin birth was an unoriginal invention. As one example: Romulus and Remus, the founders of Rome, were supposedly virgin births with the god Mars being the father. If jesus had actually been capable of miracle healings, and raising the dead, it would have been well known to the Jewish and Roman authorities of the time. Both entities had very good intelligence on what was going on with the populace. The authorities of the time had trusted informants who told them what was going on in the populace.
Those informants were capable of witnessing miracle cures and the rasing of people from the dead, and then reporting those things back.
The Romans, in particluar, were very superstitious and willing to respect and take in other peoples' "gods".
Everyone would have had an interest in keeping him alive. Nearly everyone had relatives and friends who could have used a dose of miracle healing. And, of course, people lived in fear of disease and injury for themselves.
But there were also always people wandering around claiming to be able to do miracles then, as there are now. Benny Hinn? Jesus was a faker.
If jesus were capable of performing miracles, nothing stopped him from doing so in front of the Jewish authorities, or the the Roman authorities, and immediately acquiring stature and authority.
The Roman governor probably would have sought to gain favor in Rome by shipping him back to the Emperor, if jesus were for real. If Jesus actually could perform miracles cures and raising from the dead, the LAST thing anyone would have done was kill him. He would have been too useful.
Additionally, if jesus actually had shown the power of doing miracle cures and raising the dead, who would want to insult and provoke such a power, or the power behind him?
The Gospel of Thomas has numerous anecdotes about the child Jesus abusing his magical powers: transforming his playmates into goats, or turning mud into sparrows; or giving his father assistance by lengthening a piece of wood.
Bottm line - it's all made up for fools, and there's never been any shortage of them, and you're just another example.
Chuck Stamford - 25 May 2008 20:30 GMT > The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in > various Mediterranean religious cults. Need to source this, and give examples of the others gods said to rise from the dead, to include not only any similarities, but also any difference, and some reasonable analysis of those similarities and differences.
For example, skeptics, especially ignorant ones, often cite Isis here, when the truth is the differences in the myth of Isis' "rising from the dead" and the historical account of our Lord's resurrection in a glorious immortal body and later ascension into Heave to forever sit at the right hand of the Father, FAR out weigh the paltry, and in some cases, inescapable similarities. For instance, the similarity of a dead person rising from the dead between the two stories can hardly be avoided if one wishes to testify to Jesus actually rising from the dead! And this is the ONY major similarity between the two stories!!
> Similarly, virgin birth was an > unoriginal invention. Same here; need a source, and some analysis of that source.
> As one example: Romulus and Remus, the founders > of Rome, were supposedly virgin births with the god Mars being the > father. What? The story is of Mars having SEX with the priestess Rhea Silvia (according to Wiki). Thus the story is the same as that of Hercules, Achilles, and many other Greek heros, where a Greek god impregnates a mortal woman, or is impregnated by a mortal man. Are they all examples of "virgin births"? Don't be absurd!
If the story includes the sex act as part of the "fathering" of the child, then whether the father be a god or a man, the resultant birth is NOT a "virgin birth" within the story. Greek mythology is FILLED with the lusty exploits of Zesus having sex with mortal women and fathering children.
> If jesus had actually been capable of miracle healings, and raising > the dead, it would have been well known to the Jewish and Roman > authorities of the time. Both entities had very good intelligence on > what was going on with the populace. The authorities of the time had > trusted informants who told them what > was going on in the populace. This is a nonsense argument from silence, as are most arguments from silence. It seeks to make significant what DOESN'T exist...always a mistake!
Besides, it's a stupid argument that assumes it's principle premise when much of ancient history shows it to be false. Even on the OT we find numerous examples of miracles being done that are not widely known in the land, nor are the miracle workers through whom God acted.
> Those informants were capable of witnessing miracle cures and the > rasing of people from the dead, and then reporting those things back. > > The Romans, in particluar, were very superstitious and willing to > respect and take in other peoples' "gods". What you're describing is Roman apathy toward deities, not superstition, which they were no more susceptible to than any other people of their time. That apathy goes a long way toward undercutting the premise above you were trying to foist on us. We have to ask ourselves, why would the Romans concern themselves with reports of miracles that reached their ears enough to take the time to investigate their veracity? Why wouldn't they instead, do what you do, and simply act on the assumption they weren't true?
You're arguing in such a circle here I'm surprised you don't get dizzy!
> Everyone would have had an interest in keeping him alive. Nearly > everyone had relatives and friends who could have used a dose of > miracle healing. And, of course, people lived in fear of disease and > injury for themselves. First off, this just isn't true. There were very few disciples of Jesus when He was killed by the Romans. Obviously, no Roman had any interest in keeping Him alive, nor did any of the Jewish leaders, or any of the many Jews who stood with them and cried "Crucify Him" as Pilate tried to release Him. Of the disciples Jesus still had, all but one scattered and hid.
Yet from this low point in Jesus' ministry there is a RADICAL upswing only weeks later! We see in the record that the number of disciples goes from about 100 to over 3000 in one day! And of those 100, they transform from cowering in upper rooms, to openly proclaiming the resurrection from the dead and ascension into heaven of Jesus.
There has to be a REASON for the complete and sudden transformation these cowering nobodies underwent. If not the fact they actually did witness Jesus rise from the dead in a glorious immortal body, and ascend into heaven, as they say, and if not that they were filled with God's Holy Spirit who emboldened them to then go out and do what we all know they then did, then what, genius?
What is your alternative explanation for this transformation? And remember, this wasn't just some sudden impluse in them that came and went. It changed them for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES. There isn't a one of them about whom we know the circumstances of their subsequent deaths that didn't die witnessing to the Resurrection to their last breath.
Explain that, if you can.
> But there were also always people wandering around claiming to be able > to do miracles then, as there are now. Benny Hinn? Jesus was a faker. > > If jesus were capable of performing miracles, nothing stopped him from > doing so in front of the Jewish authorities, or the the Roman > authorities, and immediately acquiring stature and authority. Read the NT. Jesus did many of His miracles before members of the Sanhedrin, and before members of the sect of the Pharisees, the then (religiously) predominant sect in Judaism. However, He did not do any miracles that would have caused both the Jews and Romans to make Him king, because that was not the reason He came in the flesh. How many times did He proclaim, in various ways, what He said to Pilate? "My kingdom is not of this world". Why then would any reasonable, intelligent person seek to make an objection against Jesus' miracles on the basis of Him not doing them so as to be make a king by those who say them?
It's a stupid argument, and you look stupid trying to make it.
> The Roman governor probably would have sought to gain favor in Rome by > shipping him back to the Emperor, if jesus were for real. If Jesus > actually could perform miracles cures and raising from the dead, the > LAST thing anyone would have done was kill him. He would have been too > useful. You're arguing as if Jesus were some "miracle vending machine" or a pet monkey! Here, Tiberius, a gift for you from Pilate. Just give him an olive and watch what he does!
You are an idiot, and apparently one that doesn't know the difference between the Infancy Gospel of Thomas (see note below), and the Gospel of Thomas (not all that much better!). So much for any rational argument ever coming out of you. Go learn something first; then come back and speak.
Note: The Infancy Gospel is currently attested by a WHOPPING 3 [count them: one, two, three] manuscripts; one Greek and one Latin, both dating to around the 13th century, the Syraic version dating to about the 6th century! Wow, what strong evidence that what we have of it is authentic! Besides, it's earliest dating for the original [that we don't have] is 150 ad., LONG after the supposed author died; making it a FOR SURE piece of pseudoepigraphy written by someone we have no compelling reason to suspect ever even knew Jesus, or anyone who did!! Anyone who knows anything about the formation of the NT, knows that nothing was accepted as Scripture by the very early Church until it was accepted as having been written BY AN APOSTLE or one of their personally authorized secretaries or disciples, and this FACT disqualifies IGT as a valid source of information concerning Jesus. No one died claiming IGT was historically accurate. Hundreds and thousands died proclaiming the four Evangelistic Gospels were essentially, historically accurate BEFORE THIS FANTASY WAS EVER PENNED! About 100 years before!!
Addendum to note, because it needs to be said: You know what amazes us thoughtful Christians? The inconsistency you moronic atheists and skeptics display in tripe like this. You will let slide the most egregiously flawed data if you think you can use it to bash Christianity as an irrational, made up faith, but you will throw out instantaneously and without any critical analysis whatsoever much more compelling evidence supporting the claims of the NT and the history of the very early Church, claiming since it's still possible the inference taken from them may be wrong, it can't be used at all. Talk about your special pleading fallacies!!!
Chuck Stamford
Pastor Dave - 25 May 2008 20:59 GMT >> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >body and later ascension into Heave to forever sit at the right hand of the >Father, Another Futurist self-contradiction! Yet they say they don't make them!
Jesus cannot sit at the right hand of the Father forever in Heaven, if as you believe, both He and the Father are going to leave Heaven, to come and live on some new planet Earth!
And as for what else you said to this guy, there's more to it than just similarities! There is when they developed, in what area and with whom!
 Signature What part of 'THOU SHALT NOT' don't you understand?
J A - 25 May 2008 21:53 GMT >> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >> various Mediterranean religious cults. > > Need to source this, and give examples of the others gods said to rise > from the dead, to include not only any similarities, No you don't.
All that has to be done is to show the same basic myth story exists in mythologies other than xianity, and predates xianity.
It's simply a borrowed myth, as is virgin birth. Do you think all these yarns are going to be exactly the same?
The thing about lies, is that they change with the telling...
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-death-rebirth_deity
"" The category life-death-rebirth deity also known as a "dying-and-rising" or "Resurrection" deity is a convenient means of classifying the many divinities in world mythology or religion who are born, suffer death, an eclipse, or other death-like experience, pass a phase in the underworld among the dead, and are subsequently reborn, in either a literal or symbolic sense.
Male deities among such figures might include Osiris, Adonis, Tammuz, Zalmoxis, phoenix, Jesus, Baldr, and Odin.
Female deities who passed into the kingdom of death and returned include Inanna (also known as Ishtar) whose cult dates to 4000 BC and Persephone, the central figure of the Eleusinian Mysteries, whose cult may date to 1700 BC as the unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete.
Historically, this category has been most strongly associated with two different approaches to the study of religion. The first, which might be labelled the "naturalist" approach, seeks to explain such myths in terms of parallels with natural processes. The second, which might be labelled the "internal" approach, seeks to explain such myths in terms of individual spiritual transformation or timeless, archetypal truth. """
<snip>
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 May 2008 00:13 GMT satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > The thing about lies, is that they change with the telling... ... and you are the source of all lies as described in the Bible per an earlier exposition here on usenet:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cbaf8b927dc443f4?
Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling you to unwittingly post faith-affirming materal for Christians.
Laus Deo ! ! !
May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD- given opportunity as GOD desires:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/31c3b88286afc5bd?
<><
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
Steve - 26 May 2008 01:50 GMT > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: >>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ... and you are the source of all lies as described in the Bible per > an earlier exposition here on usenet: Actually Mr. Chung what he has said is the absolute truth and has been verified thru much painstaking research. And as a witness to such, I verify that you've inadvertently made a liar of thyself, and thusly also falsely accused a man speaking the truth. I do believe this makes two witnesses, not just one, thusly making your testimony a lie.
Steve..
 Signature A soft breeze on my brow, the wind in my hair, and the energy of life all around me....
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 May 2008 04:17 GMT satan via another sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Actually Mr. Chung what he has said is the absolute truth... Nothing is being said here.
Bottom line:
You remain the liar who is the source of all lies as described in the Bible.
May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD- given opportunity as GOD desires:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/31c3b88286afc5bd?
<><
May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful 2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of Man ...
... by being hungrier:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/f891e617d10bd689?
Hunger is wonderful ! ! !
It's how we know what GOD desires, which is what is good.
Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve paid for with their and our immortal lives.
"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...
... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)
Amen.
Here is a Spirit-guided exegesis of Luke 6:21 given in hopes of promoting much greater understanding:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/cc2aa8f8a4d41360?
Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier...
Marana tha
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
Steve - 26 May 2008 04:51 GMT > satan via another sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > -- > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? So it's true....you disrespect your own god enough to lie and conceal the truth when backed into a corner with the truth. Life must be a real bitch for you....
Steve
 Signature A soft breeze on my brow, the wind in my hair, and the energy of life all around me....
Steve - 27 May 2008 03:41 GMT > satan via another sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: >> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Nothing is being said here. Why are you lying, Chung ? Your religion is as much a sham as you are.
> Bottom line: No, the bottom line is that you've told another lie, in an attempt to keep from having top admit to the truth, and yet you claim to be a supporter of truth.
And it was such a simple truth at that !
The bottom line IS that you're a cultist headcase and a liar, or was it the holy spirit that told you to deny the truth ?
Steve
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 May 2008 07:42 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Gluttonsatan
<><
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Alpha_Omega
Here Too - 26 May 2008 06:29 GMT > > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > >>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > falsely accused a man speaking the truth. I do believe this makes two > witnesses, not just one, thusly making your testimony a lie. No, just yours, "Steve" - since you're really Rodney Eastman now using yet another sock-puppet. So, please tell us - *who's* the liar?
Steve - 26 May 2008 15:18 GMT >>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: >>>>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > No, just yours, "Steve" - since you're really Rodney Eastman now using > yet another sock-puppet. From what I've observed of your nym shifting habits, you're talking about yourself, troll.
I really don't care who you are or what you're going to say, there is only one correct way to deal with your kind...
It's called P-L-O-N-K....B-Y-E......T-R-O-L-L.......
 Signature A soft breeze on my brow, the wind in my hair, and the energy of life all around me....
Here Too - 26 May 2008 15:39 GMT > >>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > >>>>> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > It's called P-L-O-N-K....B-Y-E......T-R-O-L-L....... Sure, Rodney - sure you're going to plonk me. If you plonked me, you might miss something said about you...
You are really laughable, do you know that? You create all of these sock-puppets by finding and then using abandoned or extremely generic Usenet email accounts, put a new nym on it and voila! Rodney believes he has cleverly created a new persona. The problem is, doofus, you still have *very* revealing characteristics in your posts that make it more than obvious that it's you, not some new poster. Hey, I'm not the only one who has caught you at this little game you play - so why do you do it and then deny it?
Hmmm...maybe you *want* to get caught...I guess it wouldn't be much fun for you to be a sock-puppet in a group anonymously and not have some of your favorite antagonists chime in, huh?
And you call *me* a loon?
GET. HELP. NOW.
J A - 26 May 2008 05:00 GMT > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: >> > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> It's simply a borrowed myth, as is virgin birth. Do you think all these >> yarns are going to be exactly the same?
>> The thing about lies, is that they change with the telling... > > ... and you are the source of all lies as described in the Bible per > an earlier exposition here on usenet: ...and yet it is YOU who gets revealed as lying, and YOU who can't answer questions about your ridiculous unoriginal myths.
A couple years ago chung claimed to be near the end of a 40 day fast.
He was asked to post a photo of himself in running shorts, to see if his appearance was compatible with having done this fast.
He wouldn;t do it, and started disembling about how people were telling him how good he looked, after 40 days with no food,
Liar? We know who the liar is.
Why don't you have your "holy spirit" appear and talk to other people? Why don;t you have him tell you how to cure some widespread disease?
Why - becasue it's all a pile of bullshit.
Zen Cohen - 26 May 2008 05:47 GMT "J A" <ae@re.com> wrote in message ....
> A couple years ago chung claimed to be near the end of a 40 day fast. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > He wouldn;t do it, and started disembling about how people were telling > him how good he looked, after 40 days with no food, Chung also talks about regularly doing 200 pushups. Given that he's probably very light bc of his eating disorder it's not out of the realm of possibililty but I doubt it in light of his poor record of telling the truth in the past. Maybe he can post a youtube video of himself doing those 200 pushups. How about it, Andy?
monkfish - 26 May 2008 17:26 GMT > "J A" <ae@re.com> wrote in message > .... [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > truth in the past. Maybe he can post a youtube video of himself doing > those 200 pushups. How about it, Andy? You first. Are you good at anything?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
activ - 26 May 2008 18:01 GMT > > "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote in message > > .... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > monkfish Your babble has a fishy ring to it so you are the Internet tele- phony. I see you are also a control freak in trying to control this thread as to where it goes.
Zen Cohen - 26 May 2008 18:11 GMT >> > "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote in message >> > .... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> Youfirst. >> Areyougoodatanything? MF, fyi, you're in my kf so I can only see yer posts when someone replies to them. Nothing personal. You're just too big a bore.
>> -- >> monkfish > > Your babble has a fishy ring to it so you are the Internet tele- > phony. I see you are also a control freak in trying to control this > thread as to where it goes. that's why I kf'd him.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 May 2008 21:38 GMT http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/04a12dea8b0388df?
<><
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/076ebd277bbfd158?
monkfish - 26 May 2008 22:23 GMT >>> > "J A" <a...@re.com> wrote in message >>> > .... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > that's why I kf'd him. Or because you are too afraid to read me.
You two are not even using your real names and calling the one that does dishonest.
Incredible people.
BTW try not to edit the quoted text. It is dishonest to do so.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
activ - 26 May 2008 22:50 GMT > Or because you are too afraid to read me. > > You two are not even using your real names > and calling the one that does dishonest. To paraphrase an old saying, I can read you like a Mickey Mouse comic book
You are showing your stupidity Monk Fish - just look at my e-mail address on all my posting for my name.
You really do continue to put your foot in your mouth and make a bigger and bigger fool with passing time.
I hope you are just a small child trying to play with the grownups and not adult.
J666 - 26 May 2008 22:54 GMT On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote
> You are showing your stupidity Monk Fish It is the one thing Master Fish does well.
I wonder if Monk is short for Monkey
activ - 26 May 2008 23:08 GMT > On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I wonder if Monk is short for Monkey I try to every now and then to respond to Monkey Fish as it is really pathetic. Master Fish tries so hard to be Chung-like and has failed miserably and his posts are so foolish. On ACT practically no one responds to him and most that do are to insult him,
I guess, some, like Monkey, are just losers
J A - 26 May 2008 23:23 GMT >> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > miserably and his posts are so foolish. On ACT practically no one > responds to him
>and most that do are to insult him, Which is as it should be... ;-))
> I guess, some, like Monkey, are just losers J666 - 26 May 2008 23:33 GMT >>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Which is as it should be... ;-)) Monkey Fish is so obvious, it would be hard to take him serious.
I wonder if monkeys look at Monkey Fish and ask if they are descended from him.
Well, Monkey should enjoy all this negative attention - because for a loser, bad attention where others at least acknowledge your existence is better than no one even knowing you exist.
We've all done our good deed for the day.
J A - 26 May 2008 23:40 GMT >>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > than > no one even knowing you exist. I'm not sure MonkTurd even knows whether or not he exists.
I'm remember him questioning whether or not he does, and as a public service, I advised him to test the situation by walking out in front of a truck.
Apparently, he doesn't question existence enough to do the experiment.
> We've all done our good deed for the day. J666 - 26 May 2008 23:45 GMT > and as a public > service, I advised him to test the situation by walking out in front of a > truck. It is a shame, because that is likely the only good thing Monkey could do.
OTOH, maybe his mommy does not let him play in the streets.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:56 GMT >> and as a public >> service, I advised him to test the situation by walking out in front of a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > OTOH, maybe his mommy does not let him play in the streets. It's not nice to talk about people that way.
Would you like to know how to love your enemies?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 27 May 2008 01:25 GMT > satan via another sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > > satan via asockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Would you like to know how to love your enemies? Neither satan nor his sockpuppets (corporeal demons) are capable of love.
Therefore, it remains wiser to simply rebuke him and move on to addressing others who are able to love.
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9adc500316e28fce?
activ - 27 May 2008 01:11 GMT > > and as a public > > service, I advised him to test the situation by walking out in front of a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > OTOH, maybe his mommy does not let him play in the streets. What is as funny as a "barrel of monkeys" is that Monkey Fish thinks he is so clever and wise rather than the fool he is.
He is so full of himself that his head must be where the moon don't shine.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 01:29 GMT >> > and as a public >> > service, I advised him to test the situation by walking out in front of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > He is so full of himself that his head must be where the moon don't > shine. If you really think so, you would not be talking about me so much.
It's always better to talk about wise people than about fools.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
Phobos - 27 May 2008 01:49 GMT > What is as funny as a "barrel of monkeys" is that Monkey Fish thinks > he is so clever and wise rather than the fool he is. > > He is so full of himself that his head must be where the moon don't > shine. Yes he is and yes his head probably is there.
It can be fun to watch him try so hard, but unlike the little engine in his favorite book him mother reads to him, no he cannot.
Perhaps time to let him play by himself in his playpen
monkfish - 27 May 2008 02:06 GMT >> What is as funny as a "barrel of monkeys" is that Monkey Fish thinks >> he is so clever and wise rather than the fool he is. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Perhaps time to let him play by himself in his playpen God is love. You will find Him when you get sick and tired of your hateful life.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:59 GMT >>> "activ" <ACTaylorIV@gmail.com> wrote in message news:263b38fe-5f7f-415f-89fe-10cb9a832541@s33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Apparently, he doesn't question existence enough to do the experiment. Would you like to learn how to love yourself?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:21 GMT >>>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > We've all done our good deed for the day. You are what you do here and now. Aren't you ashamed of yourself yet?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:58 GMT >>> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Which is as it should be... ;-)) You really should try to love even your enemies.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 26 May 2008 23:58 GMT >> On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I guess, some, like Monkey, are just losers I must have pushed your honesty button.
You came into being specifically to troll me. I do appreciate your service. Without you, I would have been talking to myself. Now we have several posters at ACT. Thanks again.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 26 May 2008 23:48 GMT > On Mon, 26 May 2008 16:50:50 -0500, activ wrote > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I wonder if Monk is short for Monkey Do you really believe that you appear as honest as Dr. Chung here?
Do you have a job?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
J666 - 26 May 2008 23:53 GMT >> It is the one thing Master Fish does well. >> >> I wonder if Monk is short for Monkey > > Do you really believe that How could anyone not believe that.
We must be making your day - glad to be of help
monkfish - 27 May 2008 01:05 GMT >>> It is the one thing Master Fish does well. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We must be making your day - glad to be of help I do appreciate another chance to be gracious and magnanimous.
But I also worry about your quality of life. If all you can do to enjoy life is to sneer at people, I can help you.
[quote] Biblical Sneers
There are five sneers recorded in the Bible:
* The wicked sneer at God (Isaiah 57:4) * The arrogant man sneers at his enemies (Psalm 10:6) * The Pharisees sneered at Jesus (Luke 16:14) * The people and rulers sneered at Jesus on the cross (Luke 23:35) * The men of Athens sneered at Paul (Acts 17:32) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneer [/quote]
Is it nice to sneer at people?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
Zen Cohen - 26 May 2008 23:08 GMT >> Or because you are too afraid to read me. No more afraid than I am to read the scribblings of my three-yr-old daughter. Except she's a bit more intellectually advanced than you are.
J666 - 26 May 2008 23:26 GMT >>> Or because you are too afraid to read me. > > No more afraid than I am to read the scribblings of my three-yr-old > daughter. Except she's a bit more intellectually advanced than you are. Have we determined Monkey Fish's physical age, we know his mental age seems to be about two on a good day.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:19 GMT >>>>> "activ" <ACTaylo...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:884efe49-e9e8-41e4-9f6e-888cc8fb0486@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Or because you are too afraid to read me. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > seems > to be about two on a good day. That's nice. Let it all hang out!
Would you like to know how to love your enemies?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 27 May 2008 00:16 GMT >>> > "activ" <ACTaylo...@gmail.com> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No more afraid than I am to read the scribblings of my three-yr-old > daughter. Except she's a bit more intellectually advanced than you are. Am I pushing your anger button? Would you like to know how to love your enemies?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
monkfish - 26 May 2008 23:49 GMT >> > "activ" <ACTaylo...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I hope you are just a small child trying to play with the grownups and > not adult. Big mistake. Now you have to post your address as well.
Are you as honest as Dr. Chung? If so, do you have a job?
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 May 2008 18:04 GMT Wiser to rebuke satan and then move on:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Rebukesatan
<><
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels
J A - 26 May 2008 23:08 GMT couple years ago chung claimed to be near the end of a 40 day fast.
He was asked to post a photo of himself in running shorts, to see if his appearance was compatible with having done this fast.
He wouldn;t do it, and started disembling about how people were telling him how good he looked, after 40 days with no food,
Liar? We know who the liar is.
Why don't you have your "holy spirit" appear and talk to other people? Why don;t you have him tell you how to cure some widespread disease?
Why - becasue it's all a pile of bullshit.
J A - 26 May 2008 23:08 GMT couple years ago chung claimed to be near the end of a 40 day fast.
He was asked to post a photo of himself in running shorts, to see if his appearance was compatible with having done this fast.
He wouldn;t do it, and started disembling about how people were telling him how good he looked, after 40 days with no food,
Liar? We know who the liar is.
Why don't you have your "holy spirit" appear and talk to other people? Why don;t you have him tell you how to cure some widespread disease?
Why - becasue it's all a pile of bullshit.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 26 May 2008 23:53 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Ignorantsatan
<><
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels
J A - 27 May 2008 00:47 GMT Chung is hissing at his own posts today.
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Ignorantsatan > > <>< > > http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Counsels Chuck Stamford - 26 May 2008 01:28 GMT >>> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >>> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No you don't. Of course YOU don't. You're nothing but an anti-Christian ideologue who would use anything, regardless of it's validity, to sling at the Christian faith. It couldn't be more obvious that you don't care about facts, or truth, or valid argumentation; that all you care about is castigating Christians and their beliefs.
Chuck Stamford
J A - 26 May 2008 01:49 GMT >>>> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >>>> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> No you don't.
> Of course YOU don't. You're nothing but an anti-Christian ideologue who > would use anything, regardless of it's validity, to sling at the Christian > faith. It couldn't be more obvious that you don't care about facts, or > truth, or valid argumentation; that all you care about is castigating > Christians and their beliefs. You're a liar.
I pointed out that many other, older mythologies had stories about raising the dead and virgin birth, and you pretend that the details of the stories would somehow make the conclusion that xinainty borrowed the stories, unsupportable.
How? What details might exist that would do that?
Don't you think that ideas of someone returning from the dead, or being born from a virgin, are bizarre and unique enough by themselves, to make it evident that they were borrowed?
Do you think all the supernatural beings and all the raising the dead and virgin birth stories in all the myths are actually true and real?
If not, then why do you think the jesus stories are real?
Explain why someone with common sense *wouldn't* assume the pre-existance of raising the dead and virgin birth stories in other myth systems, isn't an indication that xianity borrowed those stories.
If jesus still exists, 2000 years after crucifiion, then produce him, let us see him.
> Chuck Stamford Thom Madura - 26 May 2008 00:24 GMT >> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 158 lines] > > Chuck Stamford If you read Joseph Campbells books on religious mythology - you will find that virtually all of the so called Christian claims came from other religions. Some came directly from the Jewish - and are documented right in the bible.
THe "Love your enemies" came from Buddha
Revere your enemies as you revere your parents. --The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra
The Koran itself disputes both that the christ was the son of god and that he rose from the dead.
The jewish religion - for whom the savior was supposedly sent - doesn't recognize the christ as a savior - or a god - or the son of god - etc. Noting that the Christ died a Jew (INRI KING OF THE JEWS) - this is telling evidence against the christ.
It would be hard to call the Jews and Muslims atheists - since they are not. In fact- both the Muslims and Christians recognize the god of abraham - ie - the jewish god - as the one true god.
Birth fathered by a god and by a human woman exist - Perseus being the most obvious - mothered by a virign locked away - Danae.
It is unusual for a religion to claim the resurrection of their god - since most god are expected to be eternal - ie - always have and always will exist - so their god is not capable of death. It is interesting that all christian religions describe their god that way - most in their masses - "As he was in the beginning, is now - and ever shall be" and do not see the obvious contradiction that causes. However, in the ancient Babylonian religion - far predating christianity - their god Tammuz - the god of vegetation did it.
Still - the resurrection of the soul - or living again in some way - is a major part of most early religions as well. Symbolic resurrection, or rebirth of the spirit, occurred in the Hellenistic mystery religions, such as the religion of the goddess Isis of Egypt. Zoroastrianism holds a belief in a final overthrow of Evil, a general resurrection, a Last Judgment, and the restoration of a cleansed world to the righteous - some 500 to 600 years before the christ. Of course - the jewish religion also predates the Christ for that.
What little the christian religions did not directly take with them from their jewish origins is mostly rehash of religious myths that predate them. The December 25th date of the birth of the christ - was to replace the Roman Festiival of the sun on that day - and likely has little to do with the actual day the christ supposedly was born . Noting that December is winter in that area - and freezing weather and snow are unlikely but possible - it is more likely that the actual birthday of the christ was after harvest and before winter - warm enough to sleep in a stable.
EVEN you would understand that if the christ died on a cross - that DATE would be on a different DAY each year following through history - and not on a Sunday every year.
As far as the bible - a bible is a compiled reference book - and its authenticity is dependent not on the book itself - but on the source material it "REFERS" to. By the time it was written - there was NO documentation for the Old Testament. One does have to question including the Old Testament - now claimed to be archaic by many religious organization - but since it was included 300 years after the death of christ - there is no basis for that.
With the exception of a few supposedly authentic Apostolic letters - there is no original documentation for the bible. Those letter can be dated - but cannot be authenticated as to author. In fact - it is this problem with the bible that causes the most problems - authorship is absent in most cases. Even in cases where people's names are used - they are normally written in third person - so a statement by the christ - for instance - was not transcribed by the christ. We can assume that the stories were embellished - or highly edited - to make their religions points - but we have no basis for believing we have any actual words of the christ in the bible.
Bible scholars even question some of the texts supposedly written by JOHN as unlikely to be written by him. The story of the stoning of the prostitue (He who has not sinned cast the first stone) was not in early versions of the bible at all - and is one of the passages considered most likely to have been manufactured. There is no evidence that the bible waited to be constructed for proof of its passages. The bible was constructed at the order of the Roman Emperor Constantine the first - to come up with a uniform doctrine of the religion - at the council of nicea in 325 AD. Before that - there was no recognized uniform doctrine - and bibles were custom made and varied widely.
First - one should not believe that all those who do not believe in the christ or bible are atheists. The great majority of the people of the world do not believe in the bible or the christ = and believe in other religious deities - of which there are thousands- none of which are proven wrong in the bible.
However -it would seem that you would be able to use "google" to find out this information for yourself and therefore not make a fool of yourself making up stories that are not factually accurate.
monkfish - 26 May 2008 00:40 GMT > If you read Joseph Campbells books on religious mythology - you will > find that virtually all of the so called Christian claims came from [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Revere your enemies as you revere your parents. > --The Perfect Enlightenment Sutra This kind of misrepresentation is not acceptable. BTW the Buddha is not a myth but a real person.
One more post like this, you will be ignored.
 Signature monkfish * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header.
activ - 26 May 2008 03:27 GMT > > If you read Joseph Campbells books on religious mythology - you will > > find that virtually all of the so called Christian claims came from [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > * The followup-to header is set to alt.christnet.theology. > ** alt.atheism is removed from the groups header. I think someone as smart, intelligent, learned and wise as you must get frustrated with the some of the mere peons who do not get it no matter how hard you try to educate them even on the basic elements.
I think as the guru, the teacher you should show a little more patience and understanding of the masses who obviously do not get things as innately or quickly or sith such insight as you with your sharp mind.
I am sure most everyone looks up to you as a paragon, an ideal a goal, the apex of wisdom and so please continue to read from those misguided individuals as they can learn.
Keep up the good fight for the Truth.
Chuck Stamford - 26 May 2008 01:34 GMT >>> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >>> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 171 lines] > religions. Some came directly from the Jewish - and are documented right > in the bible. Now tell me why I should be impressed by Joseph Campbell, and ignore the hundreds of other mythologists who say the Resurrection can't possibly be myth, the oral traditions having been reduced to writing within the living memory of people who were witnesses to the life of Jesus...not to mention all the other historians who note so many remarkable differences, and in most cases a complete lack of any vector for these "dying and rising gods" myths and the record of Jesus Christ's resurrection, as to conclude they couldn't be connected in anyway whatsoever?
All you do is make my last point to JA for me. Another case of special pleading as a poor substitute for real, critical analysis. You guys always start from your conclusions and work backwards.
Thom Madura - 26 May 2008 02:14 GMT >>>> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >>>> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 166 lines] > hundreds of other mythologists who say the Resurrection can't possibly be > myth, quote please
the oral traditions having been reduced to writing within the living
> memory of people who were witnesses to the life of Jesus. proof please ..not to mention
> all the other historians who note so many remarkable differences, and in > most cases a complete lack of any vector for these "dying and rising gods" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > pleading as a poor substitute for real, critical analysis. You guys always > start from your conclusions and work backwards. Mr. Campbell documents his statements very well.
There remains no source documentation for the Old Testament at all.
With the exception of a few datable Apostolic letters that otherwise cannot be authenticated - there is no other first person source documentation for the bible.
There is no documentation that is claimed to be second person that is verifiable for the bible. Otherwise - quote it. There are NO instances of verifyable oral statements having been reduced to writing.
I take note you asked for specific examples of so called christian principles that existed in other religions before christianity - I gave you quite a number of examples that you snipped off - because obviously you cannot dispute those.
You asked the question I provided the information THat is not working backwards.
There are no Mythologists that say that the so called resurrection of the christ absolutely cannot be a myth. Even a christian mythologist would not go that far - although I would not take their opinion seriously anyway.
Chuck Stamford - 26 May 2008 02:24 GMT >>>>> The rising from the dead myth had been around long before jesus in >>>>> various Mediterranean religious cults. [quoted text clipped - 185 lines] > > Mr. Campbell documents his statements very well. If that's true, you sure butchered them here.
Look, you're working off a false assumption here, which is that I think the way I do because I'm just not properly informed on my subject. You seem to think that if I would just read Campbell, I could no longer reasonably hold the position I do, and that's absurd. There is no monolithic academic opinion that echoes Campbell's.
Chuck Stamford
Roger Pearse - 26 May 2008 15:13 GMT > If you read Joseph Campbells books on religious mythology - you will > find that ... (argument by book snipped) I'm afraid that few of us believe stuff just because someone says it.
> The Koran itself disputes both that the christ was the son of god and > that he rose from the dead. Must be right, then.
> The December 25th date of the birth of the christ - was to replace > the Roman Festiival of the sun on that day .... Perhaps. What evidence from ancient sources indicates this replacement?
> With the exception of a few supposedly authentic Apostolic letters - > there is no original documentation for the bible. Those letter can be [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > points - but we have no basis for believing we have any actual words of > the christ in the bible. This is nonsense.
> The bible was constructed at the order of the Roman Emperor Constantine > the first - to come up with a uniform doctrine of the religion - at the council > of nicea in 325 AD. Before that - there was no recognized uniform doctrine > - and bibles were custom made and varied widely. Also nonsense. Didn't you check any of this? Any fool knows that the story about Nicaea is a lie:
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
> First - one should not believe that all those who do not believe in the > christ or bible are atheists. No-one does. But most of those cursing both are.
> However -it would seem that you would be able to use "google" to find > out this information for yourself and therefore not make a fool of > yourself making up stories that are not factually accurate. Indeed. So why didn't you?
Roger Pearse
Pastor Dave - 26 May 2008 16:13 GMT >If you read Joseph Campbells books on religious mythology - you will >find that virtually all of the so called Christian claims came from >other religions. He may say it, but it wouldn't be true. He is ignorant on the subject and leaves out what doesn't suit him.
>Some came directly from the Jewish What's your point? Now you show your ignorance!
Jesus was a Jew. Jesus came to the Jews. Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish prophecies found in the Old Testament. The first Christians were Jews.
Again, what's your point? You're ignorant about this and you're reading the work of a man who is ignorant about this.
<snip>
The examples you gave are ridiculous, in that none were borrowed from them. But you're not smart enough to find out why. You want to read only what says what you already want it to say and any information that I give you, will be hand waved away!
But if you really are interested in the truth and finding out what it is you are missing, then get the book:
The Gospel and the Greeks, by Ronald H. Nash
...and you'll find out why Campbells is an idiot and how he has made an idiot of you.
And that's all I'm going to say about this. You now have what you need. Goodbye.
 Signature God sends us meat, the Devil sends us cooks.
|
|
|