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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / May 2008Can this cause harm??
I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or other organs? I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same thing. I was just curious. > I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to > wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I was just curious. Elite runners train at higher altitudes to have their bodies become more efficient by performing on air with a lower percentage of inspired oxygen. You would only be restricting your airflow. It is not at all the same thing and I don't recommend you train that way. Intervals of all out sprints then race pace will help you improve your time. > I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. This automatically happens by becoming healthier. > I got to > wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to > what you wear while playing football. No. If such protective mouthpieces were harmful, they would be banned from being sold to our athletes. > To get the body used to performing with less oxygen? Your nostrils would not be obstructed so there would be no suffocation. > Or would this be bad for the heart or other organs? No. See above. > I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same thing. Not if they are not planning to run a race at high altitudes. > I was just curious. Hopefully, this means you are having less palpitations. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier: http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier Marana tha Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <><  SignatureAndrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow On May 19, 12:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> wrote: <Bad Chung medical advice snipped> Once again, Chung proves that he is not fit to practice medicine or give sound medical advice. Chung ignored the OP's intent in the question that was asked and implied that it is okay and even helpful to use a protective mouthpiece during running training to increase stamina to run a 5 K. Chung completely ignored the fact that there is no need to wear a protective mouth guard while running and that it would obstruct air flow (ie minute ventilation) in a potentially harmful way, even though the nostrils were not obstructed. One does not have to be suffocated to be harmed. Altitude training is used by some competitive athletes, even those who are not intending to race at high altitudes. http://www.runningonline.com/zine/Training/133.sht The OP asked if wearing a mouthpiece and therefore obstructing air flow while training would mimic the same effects as exercising at higher altitudes would. The answer is no. Athletes train at altitude in order to have their bodies become more adapted and efficient at using oxygen, which is present in lower fractions of inspired air at altitude. This in turn may increase red blood cells hemoglobin and oxygen carrying capacity. Wearing a mouthpiece while running only serves to decrease the amount (minute volume) of air one breaths. The oxygen concentration of the air is still the same. > On May 19, 12:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > serves to decrease the amount (minute volume) of air one breaths. The > oxygen concentration of the air is still the same. Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being in a higher altitude? stryped was thinking very hard : >> On May 19, 12:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being > in a higher altitude? Tie Chung on your head and run as fast as you can... ? Uncle Frederik has brought this to us : > stryped was thinking very hard : >> Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being >> in a higher altitude? > > Tie Chung on your head and run as fast as you can... ? On a serious note: http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/15270290260131911 http://www.elite-performance.org/downloads/iht_study.pdf :-) > > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being > in a higher altitude? By running in a depressurization chamber... ... but the risk of high altitude sickness is greater than the benefit, which is zero if there are no plans for running competitively in a race that is to be conducted at a higher altitude. It remains smarter to simply become healthier to improve athletic performance. Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier... Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD explained on 19/05/2008 : >>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: >> >> Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being >> in a higher altitude? > > By running in a depressurization chamber... With you attached on the atheletes head? It seems to me I heard somewhere that stryped wrote in article <be934c31-b00f-48d6-b28b-e901a2f9cab9@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >> On May 19, 12:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >> wrote: >> <Bad Chung medical advice snipped> >> Once again, Chung proves that he is not fit to practice medicine or >> give sound medical advice. Chung ignored the OP's intent in the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> harmful way, even though the nostrils were not obstructed. One does >> not have to be suffocated to be harmed. >> Altitude training is used by some competitive athletes, even those who >> are not intending to race at high altitudes. >> http://www.runningonline.com/zine/Training/133.sht >> The OP asked if wearing a mouthpiece and therefore obstructing air >> flow while training would mimic the same effects as exercising at [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> serves to decrease the amount (minute volume) of air one breaths. The >> oxygen concentration of the air is still the same. >Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being >in a higher altitude? AFAIK from about thirty years of running, reading running magazines and running newsgroups, reading a few running books, running with (a few) people of Olympic caliber, and running some 90 races including marathons, all I know of is to simulate high altitude training by breathing an air mixture with reduced oxygen through a mask or in a specially built chamber. As all the most credible messages are telling you, it's not the volume of air but the richness of the mixture you breathe that counts. > It seems to me I heard somewhere that stryped wrote in article > <be934c31-b00f-48d6-b28b-e901a2f9c...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > messages are telling you, it's not the volume of air but the richness of the > mixture you breathe that counts. Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than worrying about oxygen percentage breathed. It seems to me I heard somewhere that Truth wrote in article <375027c0-a42d-4e1e-b413-8c84b2f8a04a@u36g2000prf.googlegroups.com>: >> It seems to me I heard somewhere that stryped wrote in article >> <be934c31-b00f-48d6-b28b-e901a2f9c...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >> >> On May 19, 12:18 pm, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <ach...@emory.edu> >> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> >Is there any way to replicate the high altitude training without being >> >in a higher altitude? >> AFAIK from about thirty years of running, reading running magazines and running >> newsgroups, reading a few running books, running with (a few) people of Olympic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> messages are telling you, it's not the volume of air but the richness of the >> mixture you breathe that counts. >Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks >with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval >training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than >worrying about oxygen percentage breathed. Absolutely true, and even a good many of the world class elite don't do altitude training. My intent, badly presented, was to give Stryped some idea of the complexity of even attempting to simulate altitude training. Thanks for setting it all straight. > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: > >> >satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly posted: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >> >> Once again, Chung proves that he is not fit to practice medicine or > >> >> give sound medical advice. Lie. It remains my choice to not give specific medical advice via usenet. > >> >> <hiss sputter hiss hiss> > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Absolutely true... Not for the discerning. Folks like Stryped with cardiac symptoms (palpitations) should focus on becoming healthier as the sole means of improving their physicial performance. Truth is simple. May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/134aca053227804c? Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD explained on 20/05/2008 : > It remains my choice to not give specific medical advice via usenet. But you do a lot of religious propaganda, no? It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <b34057fd-5f1e-4092-97ce-e5ffdfd097fd@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>: >>Yamantaka wrote: >> >Unless stryped is already an elite runner who regularly finishes 5Ks >> >with world class times, he would do well to concentrate on interval >> >training and stride techniques to improve his 5K time rather than >> >worrying about oxygen percentage breathed. >> Absolutely true... >Not for the discerning. >Folks like Stryped with cardiac symptoms (palpitations) should focus >on becoming healthier as the sole means of improving their physicial >performance. When did you examine Stryped to develop this diagnosis and what literature supports your anti-exercise fixation that he needs to become healthier to improve his physical performance? The man has been running much more than you have. These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine and offering medical advice, both of which you routinely deny that you do. convicted neighbor Don Kirkman <donsno2@charter.net> wrote in part: > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote: > > > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/eba65870ec60aea4? > >These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine... Not to the discerning. > and offering medical advice... Not to the most casual observer. > , both of which you routinely deny that you do. It remains my choice to continue writing truthfully... .. which is easy to do when guided by the Spirit of truth, Who is the Holy Spirit: http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/KnowingHIM Your difficulties here simply shows that the Holy Spirit is absolutely right to convict you: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don: http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForDon Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit, Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD formulated on Wednesday : >> These statements seem to come pretty close to practicing medicine... > > Not to the discerning. What about spamming and religious propaganda? You do a lot of that, no? http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/33f0bff6428185a8? <>< http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/6fca21f72365c0f7? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD dodged all questions and explained : <nothing> On May 21, 2:26 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> wrote: <snip Chung Dung> Chung is a liar, a fraud and unfit to practice medicine. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/df5882fac4251f24? <>< http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/6fca21f72365c0f7? Truth pretended : > On May 21, 2:26 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <lov...@thetruth.com> > wrote: > <snip Chung Dung> > > Chung is a liar, a fraud and unfit to practice medicine. Ditto. Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words.. "About two years ago, my wife and I watched an IMAX film about climbing Mt. Everest and learned that despite their exhausting regimen, the climbers consumed only 10 lbs of food per week. That's less than 2 lbs of food per day! Since none of the climbers died from starvation, I think it is safe to assume that 2 lbs per day should be more than adequate for us non-climbing folks. " -- Andrew B Chung So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him... > Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words.. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > So clearly it was not the HS, as he now claims, that inspired him... I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully (and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths. Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the moment of influence of their power over you? See how that works? Clearly you and Mr Chang want a pizza. :))))))))) I buy. You dance. Now. MU pretended : >> Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words.. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully > (and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths. Clearly you are an ignoramus. > Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the > moment of influence of their power over you? Obviously something I have written has touched a nerved. > See how that works? Oh yeah, looks like it did. http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/a49acfc310e2ced3? <>< http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/9adc500316e28fce? >>> Origins of the 2 pound diet in Chung's own words.. >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> I do love it when children attempt to present half-facts, youthfully >> (and "clearly" lol) interpreted, as whole and undeniable Truths. >> Did your Mummy and Daddy influence you? Were you always aware at the >> moment of influence of their power over you? > > Obviously something I have written has touched a nerved. Let's try this again. Do you always know at the moment of being influenced by someone or something, that you were? After serious thinking stryped wrote : > I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to > wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same > thing. Concentration of O2 at higher altitudes is lesser than at sea level. Therefore training in such circumstances would stimulate your body produce more RBCs. However, as you are training at sea level, using a restrictive mouthpiece would only stress your accessory muscles, IMO. I doubt it will improve performance. > I was just curious. It seems to me I heard somewhere that stryped wrote in article <8b3aab5f-4301-4b15-a9fc-db65b37ebab2@27g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>: >I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to >wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to >what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to >performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or >other organs? >I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same >thing. By "do the same thing" do you mean run with a mouthpiece, or get the body used to performing with less oxygen? It makes a difference. ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be inhaled. If this happened to a football player, he is in a crowd at all times (and football players remove their mouthpieces every few minutes). Runners typically tend to be alone, away from help, and unwilling to make adjustments (like removing a mouthpiece and resting a while) during their training runs. >I was just curious. I'm also curious - why you think it would work. The usual way to improve times is to train by learning to run faster with the same amount of oxygen. > >I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to > >wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be > inhaled. The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis especially when tethered to the face mask. May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Don: http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/134aca053227804c? Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ, Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17? It seems to me I heard somewhere that Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in article <22287a6c-8429-4a94-9dd5-9174944ea6cf@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>: >> >I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to >> >wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to >> >what you wear while playing football. To get the body used to >> >performing with less oxygen? Or would this be bad for the heart or >> >other organs? >> >I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same >> >thing. >> By "do the same thing" do you mean run with a mouthpiece, or get the body used >> to performing with less oxygen? It makes a difference. >> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be >> inhaled. >The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis especially >when tethered to the face mask. You're making assumptions without any basis; nobody including the OP has mentioned the size or shape of a possible mouthpiece, nor has a face mask been contemplated at all. (I don't recall seeing football players with face masks of the type you seem to have in mind.) And are you implying that it's possible to choke on an object only if it gets *past* the epiglottis? Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD was unsure and brought this to us : >> ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally >> be inhaled. > > The mouthpiece is not likely to get past the epiglottis So you're not very sure there, are you? Thanks. >>I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to >>wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > ISTM using a mouthpiece is potentially dangerous since it could accidentally be > inhaled. I don't see it making the path to the lungs but, go on... Have you tried using a slice of pizza as a mouthpiece.. would it get stuck ???????? Mr Chang and you are invited to take up my pizza and beer deal and be my guinea pigs Take it or leave it. MU formulated the question : >>> I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to >>> wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I don't see it making the path to the lungs but, go on... Clearly only an ignoramus would think that the mouth is directly connected to the lungs. But go on... >>>> I know elite runners will train at high altitudes to do the same >>>> thing. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Clearly only an ignoramus would think that the mouth is directly > connected to the lungs. But go on... Thanks, Inhaling is the act of breathing into the lungs. it could also be used in terms of ingestion nonetheless, it has to end up inside either the lungs or the tummy-wummy (or as we experts call it, the stomach). Now show me a mouthpiece that would be able to pass to the lungs. Or tummy-wummy, Mr. Kiddie. Forin all the years i trained athletes, was and am an athlete, I have never once seen one or heard of one so inhaled. Over to you, Mr. Kiddie. lol > I am a 36 year old runner wanting to improve my 5k times. I got to > wondering, would it hurt me to run with a mouthpiece in similar to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I was just curious. Get a tent designed to go over your bed and lower the oxygen level to the altitude you want to train at. It will set you back a couple of thousand bucks. SignaturePramesh Rutaji p297tongue6221@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply |
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