Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / May 2008
gods flood
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Fred Jones - 24 Apr 2008 06:31 GMT Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in flood water, they understand that the ark could not hold the millions of species that are now found on earth, and they understand that there is no DNA evidence to show that all animals on earth came from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago.
But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider his actions. That special section is this:
God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals in the flood How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be "all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God knew he would be murdering millions of people. This realization leads to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need for such a horrendous atrocity?
You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It is mass murder on a global scale.
The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object of worship shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think about it - By (supposedly) murdering nearly every human on the planet, the Christian God is far more heinous than Hitler. No "loving" and "perfect" being can also be a mass-murderer bent of global genocide. Yet Christians willfully worship him. Why?
If you are a Christian, I would ask you to simply look inside yourself today. Why would you accept a mass murderer into your life?
And Noah's flood is not the only place where God displays these horrific tendencies toward mindless slaughter. Here are several other examples.
In the book of Exodus chapter 12 verse 28, God writes about one of his early massacres:
So the people of Israel did just as the LORD had commanded through Moses and Aaron. And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. Here the death of the children is directly at the hand of God. In Isaiah chapter 13, God paints this word picture:
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. Is this the imprint of a "loving" God? In Jeremiah chapter 49, verse 20, God paints a similar picture:
Therefore hear the plan which the LORD has made against Edom and the purposes which he has formed against the inhabitants of Teman: Even the little ones of the flock shall be dragged away; surely their fold shall be appalled at their fate. At the sound of their fall the earth shall tremble; the sound of their cry shall be heard at the Red Sea. In Hosea chapter 13, God paints a similar picture: Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. In Numbers chapter 31, God paints a similar picture: Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? Behold, these caused the people of Israel, by the counsel of Balaam, to act treacherously against the LORD in the matter of Pe'or, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. Here Moses, acting as an agent of God, specifies that thousands of male babies and children be killed, as well as thousands of women. The Bible states in verse 35 that the captured women numbered "thirty-two thousand persons in all, women who had not known man by lying with him." This was not a small attack. Tens of thousands men, women and children were massacred. In Deuteronomy Chapter 3 we find this:
Next we turned and went up along the road toward Bashan, and Og king of Bashan with his whole army marched out to meet us in battle at Edrei. The LORD said to me, "Do not be afraid of him, for I have handed him over to you with his whole army and his land. Do to him what you did to Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon." So the LORD our God also gave into our hands Og king of Bashan and all his army. We struck them down, leaving no survivors. At that time we took all his cities. There was not one of the sixty cities that we did not take from them-the whole region of Argob, Og's kingdom in Bashan. All these cities were fortified with high walls and with gates and bars, and there were also a great many unwalled villages. We completely destroyed them, as we had done with Sihon king of Heshbon, destroying every city-men, women and children. But all the livestock and the plunder from their cities we carried off for ourselves. They massacred all the men, women and children in 60 cities at God's request. Even in the "New Testament" we find the same sort of thing. In the book of Matthew, chapter 2, mixed into the Christmas story, the Bible describes an amazing massacre of thousands of babies:
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh. And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son. Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not. Think about the thousands of families who were affected by this massacre. The Bible describes their suffering: they wept and could not be comforted. Of course they could not be comforted. If you are a parent, you know exactly how distraught you would feel if an agent of the government came to your door one morning and slaughtered your children. Why would God do this? Why would you want anything to do with such a muderous, horrific being? What can we say about people who would want to believe in such a being? Why would any normal, intelligent, ethical human being "worship" such a heinous, demented and despicable "god" as this?
It is impossible for a "perfect" and "loving" being to also be heinous, demented and despicable. As an intelligent person, you should be able to see that.
This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary.
bob young - 24 Apr 2008 11:34 GMT > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And have > you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually mean? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It is mass murder on a > global scale. Ah yes, but it is a lovely story for the young at heart, brings out gasps of amazment and the "Ooohs" and th "aaaahs' and once you have got 'em at that early age there's a strong change you got 'em for life, as many posters here tend to show
> The idea that Christians would accept a mass-murderer as their object of worship > shows us something about Christians, does it not? Think about it aye but are they not programmed 'not to think'?
- By
> (supposedly) murdering nearly every human on the planet, the Christian God is > far more heinous than Hitler. No "loving" and "perfect" being can also be a [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > > This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 24 Apr 2008 11:48 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/DumbSockPuppets
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http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Warns
monkfish - 24 Apr 2008 21:32 GMT > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? > And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] > > This impossibility tells us that God is imaginary. You misunderstood.
Until you have a mature faith, feel free to ignore those parts that confuse you.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 25 Apr 2008 02:32 GMT >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? >> And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 150 lines] > > You misunderstood. Love, what did I misunderstand then.
> Until you have a mature faith, > feel free to ignore those parts > that confuse you. monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 03:41 GMT > "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Love, what did I misunderstand then. You think you know what God is and you also think that the god as you know it is imaginary. That does not mean God is imaginary. It just means you misunderstood God.
Now tell me what you think God is.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 25 Apr 2008 06:03 GMT >> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Now tell me what you think God is. Simple. There is no god. There is no jesus christ. There is no devil. There is no heaven. There is no hell or hell fire. There are no demons. There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There was no talking donkey. The book is fiction.
bob young - 25 Apr 2008 07:37 GMT > >> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message > >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There was no talking > donkey. The book is fiction. as is well illustrated:
The universe revolves around the earth. Stars are pinpricks in the heavens. The world is flat (and on pillars) Bats are a kind of bird. Rabbits chew their cud. There is enough water to flood the entire planet Women were created from a man's rib Rainbows are a promise from God
[Acknowledgements to 'James, Seattle'
> > -- > > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 19:45 GMT >> >> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> >>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > [Acknowledgements to 'James, Seattle' They sound quite poetic to me. How about you?
Do you usually chew on your cookbook instead of reading it?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 18:31 GMT >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There > was no talking donkey. The book is fiction. Is that your educated guess or your blind faith?
What does it mean for God not to exist?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Pastor Frank - 26 Apr 2008 15:56 GMT >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > There are no twenty four elders.There was not a world wide flood. There > was no talking donkey. The book is fiction. Typical atheist to define the world by what is NOT. LOL These are the same people who define the word "heart" as nothing but a blood pump. No other definitions or uses will be considered, Valentine be damned. LMAO Are you a literalist fundamentalist atheist?
bob young - 28 Apr 2008 06:03 GMT > >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > > Typical atheist to define the world by what is NOT. Well NOW's your chance to define what *is* - define [prove] the existence of Jesus and his all powerful dad LOL
in fact ROFLMAO
These are the
> same people who define the word "heart" as nothing but a blood pump. No > other definitions or uses will be considered, Valentine be damned. LMAO > Are you a literalist fundamentalist atheist? monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 16:28 GMT >> >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > in fact ROFLMAO God is prior to existence.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Father Haskell - 28 Apr 2008 22:08 GMT > >> >>> "monkfish" <monkf...@nowhere.org> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > God is prior to existence. Define "god."
Define "existence."
bob young - 29 Apr 2008 03:43 GMT > >> >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message > >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > God is prior to existence. Prove it
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. Pastor Frank - 30 Apr 2008 16:12 GMT >> >> >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Prove it Read John 1:1-14 In the beginning was the word (an abstraction of an idea / ideal or fantasy) and the word became flesh in Jesus Christ. That is why Jesus Christ is our God incarnate.
bob young - 01 May 2008 03:54 GMT > >> >> >>> "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message > >> >> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > idea / ideal or fantasy) and the word became flesh in Jesus Christ. That is > why Jesus Christ is our God incarnate. Why should I read the ramblings of a frightened primitive living in ignorance and fear? Ramblings that cannot be substantiated any further back than the first ever printed bible, about 1,200 years AFTER the claimed events. Did 'John' write in English? If not, how many translators were involved prior to any English version? You do not know of course.
It is now year 2008 GROW UP
monkfish - 01 May 2008 04:00 GMT >> "bob young" <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in message >> >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > It is now year 2008 GROW UP Still clueless?
Are you still trying to prove that language is prior to sentences?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. -- The best way to handle spams is to ignore them. But if you must reply to them, you should at least set the followup-to header to something other than your own newsgroup.
bob young - 25 Apr 2008 07:36 GMT > > "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Now tell me what you think God is. A............... MYTH
Prove me wrong.
God used to live in the clouds. Now he exists outside the universe. Christians keep pushing God further and further away. You must unlearn what you have learned. ~ Yoda
On every hand there seems to be design to defeat design. If God created man -- if he is the father of us all, why did he make the criminals, the insane, the deformed and idiotic? Should the mother, who clasps to her breast an idiot child, thank God? [Robert Green Ingersoll, from "Why I Am an Agnostic" (1896)]
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 19:42 GMT >> > "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> >> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Christians keep pushing God further and further away. You must unlearn > what you have learned. ~ Yoda God is here with us. Atheists "keep pushing God further and further away. You must unlearn what you have learned."
> On every hand there seems to be design to defeat design. If God created > man -- if he is the father of us all, why did he make the criminals, the > insane, the deformed and idiotic? Should the mother, who clasps to her > breast an idiot child, thank God? > [Robert Green Ingersoll, from "Why I Am an Agnostic" (1896)] Simplistic flat reasoning.
God is beyond YOUR right and wrong. God is above YOUR good or bad. God is even prior to existence.
You need to figure out what it means for God to create us in His image.
What does it mean for anyone to create anything in his image?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 25 Apr 2008 22:32 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMonkFish
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http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Faith
Pastor Frank - 27 Apr 2008 04:09 GMT >> > "monkfish" <monkfish@nowhere.org> wrote in message >> >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > thank God? > [Robert Green Ingersoll, from "Why I Am an Agnostic" (1896)] At least we can see you don't post to atheist groups anymore, because you get more answers in Christian NGs, and because you are interested in Christianity. Why do you cite people who have no knowledge of the God of Christ? See below how Christ explains His God to a sceptical Philip.
Pastor Frank
"GOD" THE CHRISTIAN MEANING OF THE WORD ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE: The word "God" is not a proper name but a title of a position of whatever is your standard of virtue and ideal of perfection against which you measure all behaviour. (Jesus in Matthew. 5:48) I.e. In 2 Corinthians 4:4, Paul says that Satan is: "...the god (theos) of this world", i.e. reality. And again in Philippians 3:19, Paul says there are people: "...whose God (theos) is their belly", i.e. gratification, pleasure. Also, Jesus speaks of mammon being a god or devil, representing the greed for possessions, money and power. (Mt:6:24:) Jesus tells us in Jn:4:24 that His "GOD IS A SPIRIT", (i.e. akin to a quality of attitude, like love and care which imbues a person and animates the flesh), and "they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." Jesus explains further in John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM." Philip saith unto him: "Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us." Jesus saith unto him: "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? HE THAT HAS SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then: Show us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself, but the FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS." Jesus in Jn:10:30: I and my Father are one. Jesus in John 12:44-46`Then Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in me, believes not in me but in Him who sent me. And he who sees me sees Him who sent Me. I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in me should not abide in darkness." Jesus in Lk 17:20-21: And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said: "The kingdom of God cometh not with observation. Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! For, behold, the kingdom of GOD IS WITHIN YOU." 1Jn:4:8: He that LOVETH not, knoweth not God; for GOD IS LOVE. 1Jn:4:16: And we have known and believed the LOVE that God hath to us. GOD IS LOVE; and he that dwelleth in LOVE dwelleth in God, and God in him. Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye LOVE one another; as I have LOVED you, that ye also LOVE one another. Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have LOVE one to another. Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye LOVE one another, as I have LOVED you. Greater LOVE hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Acts:17:28: For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring. Proverbs 10:22 God is nearer than our own soul, closer than our most secret thoughts. Heb:1:8: But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Pastor Frank - 25 Apr 2008 07:11 GMT >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? >> And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] > feel free to ignore those parts > that confuse you. Actually why should God NOT be "Imaginary" also. Money is imaginary, isn't it? Unless you imagine it has value, it's just a little piece of worthless paper. Animals and atheists attach no value to God, but thinking people do, and that is the difference.
Fred Jones - 25 Apr 2008 13:14 GMT >>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? >>> And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > paper. Animals and atheists attach no value to God, but thinking people do, > and that is the difference. Frank you and I are nothing more than highly evolved animals. It is the higher thinking part, the intelligence factor that sets humans apart from animal. It is because of that thinking part why god does not exist. See, the people who are over you in what ever church you belong to set it up that way. It's is to control you. And I see it is working quite well. See this religion thing is a lot like the implication or metaphor behind the name monkfish. I'll let you chew on that for a while.
monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 20:09 GMT >>>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >>>> flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the [quoted text clipped - 168 lines] > well. See this religion thing is a lot like the implication or metaphor > behind the name monkfish. I'll let you chew on that for a while. You are like a fruit fly which insists that seasons do not exist.
Just because you cannot see the big picture, you think you already know whatever there is to know. Such hubris is unbecoming to limited beings like us.
How do we even know our knowledge is limited?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Pastor Frank - 27 Apr 2008 04:24 GMT >> Actually why should God NOT be "Imaginary" also. Money is imaginary, >> isn't it? Unless you imagine it has value, it's just a little piece of >> worthless paper. Animals and atheists attach no value to God, but >> thinking people do, and that is the difference. >> > Frank you and I are nothing more than highly evolved animals. I think it's a lot more, than just "nothing more". Why is everything "nothing more" to you? Where it should be the most exciting thing in the world.
> It is the higher thinking part, the intelligence factor that sets humans > apart from animal. It is because of that thinking part why god does not > exist. Only YOUR god doesn't exist. I have a display cabinet full of bona fide existing gods, which are all for sale. Make me an offer!!! Our Christian God is "love", ..a Quality, right up to and including the absolute of perfection as in Jesus Christ, ...which we are to emulate.
> See, the people who are over you in what ever church you belong to set it > up that way. It's is to control you. < Why would you want me, or anyone out of control. Look at your parents, teachers, Police, judges etc. etc. who are all there to control you.
> And I see it is working quite well. See this religion thing is a lot like > the implication or metaphor behind the name monkfish. I'll let you chew on > that for a while. I am glad it is. Only you seem to be suspicious, if not cynical and paranoid as well. But those are the effect atheism has on people.
Fred Jones - 27 Apr 2008 14:53 GMT >>> Actually why should God NOT be "Imaginary" also. Money is imaginary, >>> isn't it? Unless you imagine it has value, it's just a little piece of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Why would you want me, or anyone out of control. Look at your parents, > teachers, Police, judges etc. etc. who are all there to control you. My parents lost that control long ago, it's called leaving the nest. Teachers are not in authority. Police only have authority when they observe a crime. The only time a judge is in command is when you are in his court, or when you by law have been put under a sentence because of a conviction.
>>And I see it is working quite well. See this religion thing is a lot like the >>implication or metaphor behind the name monkfish. I'll let you chew on that >>for a while. > I am glad it is. Only you seem to be suspicious, if not cynical and > paranoid as well. But those are the effect atheism has on people. Really Frank? Do you know what a monkfish is? What is a monkfish Frank?
J666 - 25 Apr 2008 14:53 GMT > Money is imaginary, > isn't it? Unless you imagine it has value, We create money and we give it value - we use that value to buy goods and services instead of having a barter system way of commerce. The value of money can increase and decrease over time.
bob young - 25 Apr 2008 07:19 GMT > > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? > > And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 152 lines] > > Until you have a mature faith, ROFL
"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits." [Dan Barker]
Faith is Doubt. [Emily Dickinson]
Without pledging ourselves to any particular Confession (Protestantism or Catholicism), we have restored to faith its prerequisites because we were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out. [Adolf Hitler]
> feel free to ignore those parts > that confuse you. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 19:31 GMT >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >> > flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > taken on its own merits." > [Dan Barker] Does that mean you have no faith in the scientific method?
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bob young - 26 Apr 2008 05:09 GMT > >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's > >> > flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the [quoted text clipped - 167 lines] > Does that mean you have no faith > in the scientific method? I never use 'faith' I prefer to use 'facts'
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 26 Apr 2008 16:25 GMT >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >> >> > flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in [quoted text clipped - 174 lines] > > I never use 'faith' I prefer to use 'facts' Do you really think the scientific method is a fact? Do you really think all scientific theories are facts? Have you read any book on philosophy of science?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
bob young - 27 Apr 2008 03:30 GMT > >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's > >> >> > flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in [quoted text clipped - 178 lines] > Do you really think all scientific theories are facts? > Have you read any book on philosophy of science? You'd better pray that the next airpalne that you fly on was not designed by a team relying of 'faith' rather than 'facts'
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 27 Apr 2008 04:37 GMT >> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 188 lines] > You'd better pray that the next airpalne that you fly on was not > designed by a team relying of 'faith' rather than 'facts' If they were real Christians, they would have put safety before profit. Yes, I would like that.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 27 Apr 2008 04:55 GMT >>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 192 lines] > they would have put safety before profit. > Yes, I would like that. Are you sure a christian would put safety before profit? How can you be sure they are real christians? How do you define a real christian? How can you tell if someone is a real christian? If you were in a room standing next to some body would you know if that person is a christian? How do you know I'm not an angle sent by god to correct you? Would you see the errors in your ways If I were an angle and obey the great loving god? How would you know if you are receiving correction from god? Do you know what it means to be corrected by god.
monkfish - 27 Apr 2008 23:30 GMT >>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 206 lines] > How would you know if you are receiving correction from god? Do you know > what it means to be corrected by god. Flippancy would not help you.
Do you hate God?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 27 Apr 2008 23:42 GMT >>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 210 lines] > > Do you hate God? If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? Are there angles? Is there a real devil? Is there a real hell? How do you know there is a real hell. Do you know what sin is? How do you define sin? Can you define sin? If your in a room all by your self can you sin if nobody sees you? Is an action a sin if it against a sinner?
Semper Libèr® . - 28 Apr 2008 00:18 GMT > >>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of > >>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 212 lines] > > > If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? By using the test (of the spirits) we were given... Which, btw, you failed.
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 01:58 GMT >>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 221 lines] > If your in a room all by your self can you sin if nobody sees you? Is an > action a sin if it against a sinner? All good questions.
What does it mean for you to sin?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 28 Apr 2008 02:42 GMT >>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 225 lines] > > What does it mean for you to sin? What does it mean for you to sin?
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 03:41 GMT >>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>>>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 231 lines] >> > What does it mean for you to sin? To disobey God.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 28 Apr 2008 03:45 GMT >>>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >>>>>>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 233 lines] > > To disobey God. And now you see one of the basic differences between us. I do not recognize your god, there for I commit no sin.
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 04:23 GMT >>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story >>>>>>>>>> >> >> > of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 242 lines] > And now you see one of the basic differences between us. I do not > recognize your god, there for I commit no sin. You are like a fool who is proud to be color blind and thinks that he can ignore all traffic signals.
Shouldn't you do everything to figure out how to read traffic signals instead?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Fred Jones - 28 Apr 2008 13:00 GMT >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story >>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 248 lines] > Shouldn't you do everything to figure out > how to read traffic signals instead? Done that did the math. False is that false does. If this god is real it leads people to do great atrocities.
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 17:04 GMT >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's >>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > story of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered [quoted text clipped - 259 lines] > Done that did the math. False is that false does. If this god is real it > leads people to do great atrocities. Only if it exists in the mode presumed by you. But, God is prior to existence, and above right and wrong. That means God is not something that can be blamed.
I know, it's not that easy to grasp. But, even you would not dream of blaming the law of gravity for killing building accident victims.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Pastor Frank - 14 May 2008 13:05 GMT > And now you see one of the basic differences between us. I do not > recognize your > god, there for I commit no sin. You may not commit any sin again "my" God, but you certainly commit sins against your own god, that is unless you are perfect, for near everyone has his own set of principles he seeks to live up to, and those principles ARE your god. Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10) Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
Adonis - 15 May 2008 05:57 GMT >> And now you see one of the basic differences between us. I do not recognize >> your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > his own set of principles he seeks to live up to, and those principles ARE > your god. Your a very confused person.
> Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in > Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see > in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3) bob young - 28 Apr 2008 06:11 GMT > >>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of > >>>>>>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 233 lines] > > To disobey God. "My child, my child, no god has ever given you an instruction, every godlike instruction you have ever been given has been given to you by another human.
That is why we keep telling you to grow up.
Oh....and your one line responses are becoming so predictable, so weak, [or cute] or vacillating it it getting near time to pull the plug on monkfish.
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 28 Apr 2008 11:41 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Despairingsatan
<><
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/GreatAssembly
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 16:34 GMT >> >>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story >> >>>>>>>> >> >> > of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 253 lines] > [or cute] or vacillating it it getting near time to pull the plug on > monkfish. You are playing with the toy god people abandoned thousands years ago. No wonder it does not move.
We are talking about God for grownups here. To do so, you need to understand what it means for time to be prior to existence. Can you do that?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
bob young - 29 Apr 2008 03:44 GMT > >> >>>>>>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story > >> >>>>>>>> >> >> > of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this [quoted text clipped - 262 lines] > what it means for time to be prior to existence. > Can you do that? Can you loonie?
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. Pastor Frank - 15 May 2008 14:10 GMT >> > What does it mean for you to sin? >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > given has been given to you by another human. > That is why we keep telling you to grow up. Our God is the repository of ideals of perfection. To "disobey God" therefore is to set your aims low and short of perfection. See below
Pastor Frank
To fail occasionally living up to high standards is not hypocritical, but it is hypocritical to succeed occasionally in living up to one's low standards. --anon--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 28 Apr 2008 04:09 GMT http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForMonkfish
> >> If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? You'd know how to spell angel and you would be praising GOD.
> >> Are there angles? Yes. There are also angels.
> >> Is there a real devil? There is satan, the devil, who is the source of all lies as described in the Bible.
> >> Is there a real hell? There is a hell:
http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
> >> How do you know there is a real hell. http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob
> >> Do you know what sin is? Yes.
> >> How do you define sin? Not doing what GOD desires.
> >> Can you define sin? Just did.
> >> If your in a room all by your self can you sin if nobody sees you? Yes.
> >> Is an > >> action a sin if it against a sinner? An action (or even a thought) is a sin if it is not what GOD desires.
> > All good questions. > > > > What does it mean for you to sin? > > > What does it mean for you to sin? It means eternal separation from GOD for those without the atoning sacrifice of LORD Jesus Christ:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/JesusChrist
May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Fred:
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/PrayForFred
Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,
Andrew <>< -- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords. http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
Dancing Monkey - 28 Apr 2008 20:01 GMT <tripe removed>
With whom does she sleep with Chung? Is he doing all the things that you never did?
Poor man, you.
duke - 28 Apr 2008 16:44 GMT >What does it mean for you to sin? Tell God you'll decide and not him.
duke, American-American ***** "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI *****
Pastor Frank - 19 May 2008 09:15 GMT > If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? > Are there angles? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If your in a room all by your self can you sin if nobody sees you? > Is an action a sin if it against a? Apparently you haven't found any satisfactory answers for these questions yet. For many finding a satisfactory answer is the purpose of their lives. That requires a lot of thought, and me telling your answers you have heard before and rejected, serves no purpose. I.e. an atheist may define the word god as an invisible old man in the sky, which obviously does not exist. But a theist may define the word God as an ideal of perfection to live up to, as exemplified by Jesus Christ, and which therefore does exists. Let's see whether you can't find sensible definitions for the words: angel, hell, devil etc. on your own.
bob young - 20 May 2008 10:56 GMT > > If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? > > Are there angles? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Let's see whether you can't find sensible definitions for the words: > angel, hell, devil etc. on your own. Religious jargon - all of them
Thom Madura - 22 May 2008 03:15 GMT >>> If I were an angle sent by god how would you know? >>> Are there angles? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Religious jargon - all of them Not quite - AN angel is a Baseball Player from a certain California Baseball team.
Devil is a term used for spiciness in cooking - hence Deviled eggs.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 22 May 2008 11:29 GMT > satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) despairingly wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Devil is a term used for spiciness in cooking - hence Deviled eggs. May we, who are Christians, continue to pray for your perishing soul, dear Thom:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3cef85cf7bd411d0?
Prayerfully in the awesome name of LORD Jesus Christ,
Andrew <>< -- http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/3558812d72ab4e17?
bob young - 28 Apr 2008 06:07 GMT > >>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of > >>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 210 lines] > > Do you hate God? He is simply throwing back at you the type of stupid stuff you throw at us each time you have your back to the wall trying to 'show' your god.
No we don't hate your god, all we ask is that it 'shows' then all we athests will be no more..
> -- > monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header > because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing > and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy. monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 16:31 GMT >> >>>> >> >> > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of >> >>>> >> >> > Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's [quoted text clipped - 222 lines] > No we don't hate your god, all we ask is that it 'shows' then all we > athests will be no more.. God is rather like time and space but of course is much more and is prior to existence.
Are time and space prior to existence?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
duke - 28 Apr 2008 16:38 GMT >God is rather like time and space >but of course is much more and >is prior to existence.
>Are time and space prior to existence? No, but God is.
duke, American-American ***** "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI *****
monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 17:51 GMT >>God is rather like time and space >>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI > ***** Good for you. What does it mean for God to exist?
How do you relate to God? Is it necessary for God to exist? Shouldn't it be acceptable as well if God makes existence possible and is not created to exist?
On the other hand, if you are talking about Jesus Christ, He should have existed and should exist.
What does it mean for Jesus Christ to exist?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
duke - 28 Apr 2008 23:59 GMT >>>God is rather like time and space >>>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Good for you. >What does it mean for God to exist? The Supreme Creator.
>How do you relate to God? >Is it necessary for God to exist? >Shouldn't it be acceptable as well >if God makes existence possible >and is not created to exist? I don't know.
>On the other hand, >if you are talking about Jesus Christ, >He should have existed and should exist.
>What does it mean for Jesus Christ to exist? God become man.
duke, American-American ***** "The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI *****
Don Kirkman - 28 Apr 2008 19:45 GMT It seems to me I heard somewhere that duke wrote in article <rprb14t5vh61oga595ol3ebri8lfnhrsoj@4ax.com>:
>>God is rather like time and space >>but of course is much more and >>is prior to existence.
>>Are time and space prior to existence?
>No, but God is. So God existed before existence existed?
J666 - 28 Apr 2008 21:17 GMT > So God existed before existence existed? Before the Beginning there was a Great Nothingness except for the dormant Primordial Egg from which everything eventually arose.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 28 Apr 2008 21:32 GMT >>God is rather like time and space >>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > No, but God is. no such thing as god duke, there is no god
> duke, brainwashed dumbass monkfish - 28 Apr 2008 21:41 GMT >>>God is rather like time and space >>>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > no such thing as god duke, there is no god Do you know what God is?
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Father Haskell - 28 Apr 2008 22:10 GMT > >>>God is rather like time and space > >>>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Do you know what God is? You and SheBlew are going to get along great.
Pastor Frank - 29 Apr 2008 12:22 GMT >>>God is rather like time and space >>>but of course is much more and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > no such thing as god duke, there is no god "There is no god" of YOUR definition, for I have a whole display cabinet full of existing gods, who are all for sale, for the won't lift a wooden finger for me. But perhaps they will for you? Make me an offer.
Pastor Frank - 15 May 2008 13:57 GMT >> Do you hate God? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No we don't hate your god, all we ask is that it 'shows' > then all we athests will be no more.. I don't think you mean that. I showed you the proof many times, and just because our Christian God is not that invisible creature in the sky your grand pappy told you about, you keep ignoring it. see below again
Pastor Frank
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) become fully manifested in Jesus Christ giving His life for us sinners on the cross of Calvary. We therefore know our God and have seen Him through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour. (Jesus in John 14:6-10) Atheists don't know our God and therefore can't see manifestations of love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3)
bob young - 16 May 2008 10:29 GMT > >> Do you hate God? > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > > I don't think you mean that. I showed you the proof many times............ L I A R
and just
> because our Christian God is not that invisible creature in the sky your > grand pappy told you about, you keep ignoring it. see below again [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > love and care in human beings, and to the death if need be, such as we see > in Jesus Christ. (Jesus in John 3:3) Pastor Frank - 29 Apr 2008 00:00 GMT >> Does that mean you have no faith >> in the scientific method? > > I never use 'faith' I prefer to use 'facts' "Methods" of any description are not fact, but a procedure, Bob. Also you can only have faith in the fidelity of your wife, and you can never be sure, that is unless you have chained her to the bed, or make her wear a chastity belt. Is that what you do, to derive at the "facts" you need to be sure, without needing faith?
Pastor Frank - 26 Apr 2008 16:05 GMT > "Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the > only way you can > accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that > it can't be taken on its own merits." > [Dan Barker] You forgot to tell us how you apply your principle you call "own merits", or should I say god? You look at your child and have faith, that he will amount to something some day. You even spend your hard-earned money to send him to school to learn something useful, ....all on faith alone. Or do you require your child to amount to something first, for you to put your faith in him "on his own merits"?
Pastor Frank - 25 Apr 2008 07:02 GMT > Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? > And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might > actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and > therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and > intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth. > They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in flood water, Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the known world didn't include "Mt. Everest"?
Fred Jones - 25 Apr 2008 13:23 GMT >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And >> have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Are you a little child who can't figure, that in those times the known > world didn't include "Mt. Everest"? The "known world" did not know about the America's yet either. Your argument is weak like you. The myth of the flood says the whole earth was covered. In fact Genesis 7:20 says the mountains were covered. It does not say only half covered, it says covered. So you are implying the flood was contained in some kind of bubble so that the flood was only in the local geological area. That means the story is just that a story. It is a lie.
monkfish - 25 Apr 2008 20:14 GMT >>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >>> flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > the local geological area. That means the story is just that a story. It > is a lie. Flat reasoning again. The whole world KNOWN TO THE NARRATOR was covered.
You really should try to read books from the perspective of the writers as well as your own perspective.
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
bob young - 26 Apr 2008 05:10 GMT > >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And > >> have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bubble so that the flood was only in the local geological area. That means the > story is just that a story. It is a lie. It also shows, if we take the other argument, god was ignorant of the existence of Mt. Everest.
monkfish - 26 Apr 2008 16:38 GMT >> >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >> >> flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > It also shows, if we take the other argument, god was ignorant of the > existence of Mt. Everest. Extreme flat reasoning.
God is not what you think it is. People at the time of the flood did not know much about the world. Just as you don't know much about the universe and even our scientists don't know much about it before the big bang.
You anachronistic arguments are so silly until we realize that you sincerely believe there could be an entity out there which can put the eternal truths in language, to be true for all ages. That faith is incredible unscientific and philosophically clueless.
You are so clueless about language. Kindly read this carefully, please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Language
 Signature monkfish * alt.atheism is removed from the header because atheists there consider quoting the Bible proselytizing and as such it is prohibited by their undebatable policy.
Pastor Frank - 29 Apr 2008 00:08 GMT >> >> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's >> >> flood? And [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > It also shows, if we take the other argument, god was > ignorant of the existence of Mt. Everest. No. I guess we need to congratulate both of you again on believing in miracles, i.e. like molluscs walking all the way up on Mt. Everest, their remains to be found embedded there by mountain climbers. We would rather believe, that the area was once covered by the sea. Do you mind?
Pastor Frank - 27 Apr 2008 04:29 GMT >>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? >>> And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > contained in some kind of bubble so that the flood was only in the local > geological area. That means the story is just that a story. It is a lie. The Black See area was flooded up to the mountains, till the water cut a channel to the Mediterranean. I think you just love to chant atheist mantras, all of which are irrelevant to what Jesus Christ is all about.
Fred Jones - 27 Apr 2008 15:22 GMT >>>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And >>>> have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > channel to the Mediterranean. I think you just love to chant atheist mantras, > all of which are irrelevant to what Jesus Christ is all about. Frank, your bible is very clear:
Genesis 6:17. And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. Genesis 6:7. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
The bible is using words that imply the entire life on earth not just an intersection of a city. Or are you saying to only humans in existence at that time at that point of history only lived to the local vicinity of this flood? That the only animals were living at that location only?
Genesis 8:4. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
Now dear Frank. There is evidence of a local flood in that area, in fact there is evidence of reoccurring floods in that area. Now we also have to look at the glaring contradictions of this most famous biblical event in human history. How many animals was your god to lead into the ark? When did Noah enter the ark? How long did the flood last? How long was the ark afloat? When did the earth dry after the flood?
bob young - 28 Apr 2008 06:31 GMT > >>> Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? > >>> And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > channel to the Mediterranean. I think you just love to chant atheist > mantras, all of which are irrelevant to what Jesus Christ is all about. Noah takes 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark Gen 7:2-3 Noah takes one pair of animal onto the ark - Gen 6:19
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an impossible story. 1. The largest boat ever built could not even come close to housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7 million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. This is patently impossible, using only materials and tools available to Noah, to build an arch large enough to hold all these creatures, together with suitable environments for each of them to live in, keeping them all separated so they don't eat or kill each other. And then provide room and an environments for many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants, molds etc. on this planet? 2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month escapade? 3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive. What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must have been one stinking ship! 4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an additional year or more after the flood subsided? 5. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11. 6. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old! This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as greater tale than Santa Claus, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy! Genesis 6:6 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them." 9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. Genesis 7 1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven [a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made." 6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female, came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth. 11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with the
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