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Medical Forum / General / Cardiology / April 2008

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Re: Is prayer good for anything?

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Pastor Frank - 07 Apr 2008 04:36 GMT
"J666" <jeaanon@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C41E300F0000AFB2F0488530@news-server.rgv.rr.com...
> On Sun, 6 Apr 2008 2:25:16 -0500, Paster Frank
>>
>> You are not on the same line, not even on the same page as
>> Andy Chung.
>
> What a wonderful compliment to give as most do not agree with Andy's
> delusional thinking and 2PDer.
> I hope you think the same of me.

   Andy knows what he is talking about. It's the psychological orientation
needed to be able to adhere to a minimal, i.e. starvation level, but well
balanced diet without giving up. It's based on experiments like the below.
   You, however have yet to come across with some data to support your
position. That's why no one's listening to you.

Pastor Frank

Drastic diet may extend human life, study finds
Nov. 15, 2007 Special to World Science

   Eating little may help people live longer, a study has found, of­fer­ing
sup­port for an idea that has tan­ta­lized sci­en­tists for dec­ades.
   Re­search­ers have long known that cut­ting an­i­mals' food supply to
near-starva­t­ion lev­els gives them-for rea­sons still un­clear-long­er
lives and health­i­er old age. Stud­ies have found that in hu­mans, too,
sharply re­duced eat­ing is as­so­ci­at­ed with health­i­er ag­ing, as long
as nu­tri­tion­al ba­lance is main­tained.
   But wheth­er this prac­tice could ac­tu­ally length­en our lives has
re­mained un­cer­tain.
   Some sci­en­tists have ar­gued that it's doubt­ful, be­cause hu­mans
al­ready live un­usu­ally long. Only one small past study in hu­mans
of­fered weak ev­i­dence that peo­ple eat­ing less lived long­er,
ac­cord­ing to its au­thors, who were al­so in­volved in the new re­search.
   The new study is the first to probe the claim by com­par­ing hu­man
popula­t­ions, wrote the Amer­i­can and Jap­a­nese sci­en­tists in a re­port
on their find­ings.
   More­o­ver, they added, it's "the first study that has shown ex­tend­ed
av­er­age and max­i­mum life span in a hu­man popula­t­ion that is
po­ten­tially due to" re­duced eat­ing. The prac­tice is known as ca­lor­ic
re­stric­tion.
   The re­search­ers stud­ied res­i­dents of the Jap­a­nese is­land of
Ok­i­nawa, known through much of the last cent­ury both for ex­cep­tion­ally
long-lived in­hab­i­tants and for very spare, though bal­anced di­et­s. The
in­vest­i­gat­ors said they found ev­i­dence that the two things are at
least par­tially re­lat­ed.
   Al­though that con­clu­sion might seem ob­vi­ous to some-given the past
re­search-the sci­en­tists wrote that to reach it, they had to ac­count for
some fac­tors that had ham­pered sys­tem­at­ic anal­y­sis. For one,
Oki­na­wan di­ets have changed, be­com­ing richer since about the end of the
1960s. Al­so, it was­n't clear how to best as­sess his­tor­i­cal di­e­tary
in­take and com­pare it to that of oth­er popula­t­ions.
   The find­ings, by Brad­ley Will­cox of the Pa­cif­ic Health Re­search
In­sti­tute and John A. Burns School of Med­i­cine in Hon­o­lu­lu and
col­leagues, ap­pear in the No­vem­ber is­sue of the re­search jour­nal
An­nals of the New York Acad­e­my of Sci­ences.
   An­i­mal tests have found that the ex­treme di­et­ing of ca­lor­ic
re­stric­tion en­tails cut­ting some 40 per­cent of calo­ries to get the
strongest life-extending ef­fects. An­i­mals placed on such reg­i­mens live
up to 40 per­cent long­er than nor­mal, as long as the di­et re­mains
nu­tri­tionally bal­anced. (Some sci­en­tists pro­pose-a­gain based mostly
on an­i­mal test­s-that tak­ing a sub­stance called res­ver­a­trol may
rep­li­ca­te ca­lor­ic re­stric­tion's ben­e­fits, with­out the
un­pleas­ant­ness.)
   Will­cox and col­leagues found that at least from the mid-20th cen­tu­ry
through the 1960s, the Oki­na­wan di­et was about 11 per­cent short of what
would nor­mally be rec­om­mended to main­tain body weight. As of 1995, the
av­er­age Oki­na­wan lived about five years long­er than the av­er­age
Amer­i­can, and about 18 months more than the av­er­age Jap­a­nese.
   The is­landers' spar­tan di­ets may have been a leg­a­cy of "pe­ri­odic
crop fail­ures that oc­curred in Oki­na­wa in the early 20th cen­tu­ry and a
long his­to­ry of mar­gin­al food sup­ply," the re­search­ers wrote.
   The study had some weak­nesses, they added; for in­stance, it could­n't
rule out that Oki­na­wans lived long­er be­cause of the types of nu­tri­ents
they ate, rath­er than the amount. None­the­less, the "ten­ta­tive"
find­ings fit with a broad ar­ray of an­i­mal stud­ies, and point to a need
for still more re­search, Will­cox and col­leagues wrote.
J666 - 07 Apr 2008 04:55 GMT
> Andy knows what he is talking about.

Chung has not answered, so perhaps you can.

1. Should children go to bed and school hungry

2.  Does a pregnant women need to eat an extra 2 pounds a day for each child
she is carrying or is it not a child, but a fetus and so does not need 2
pounds a day
Pastor Frank - 08 Apr 2008 02:02 GMT
>> Andy knows what he is talking about.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> she is carrying or is it not a child, but a fetus and so does not need 2
> pounds a day

   Nature designed us to expend considerable effort to get our food, all of
which is now unnecessary, and we spend our eating time just filling up to
the max, with the result that our children and most everyone else are
overweight and have diabetes and heart problems only found in old people
previously.
   Get serious!!!! Over-eating and obesity is killing us, and your
ankle-biting doesn't help matters. Or are you food addicted and can't help
yourself?
J666 - 08 Apr 2008 13:59 GMT
>     Get serious!!!! Over-eating and obesity is killing us, and your
> ankle-biting doesn't help matters. Or are you food addicted and can't help
> yourself?

Overeating is bad BUT that does not mean that Chung's 2PDer is good.

It is absolutely absurd that basing a diet on the volume of one omer per day
of manna as in Exodus means that everyone, from young to old, from small to
big, should eat only 2 pounds of any food a day.

It is very hard to take seriously what you say when you support that unsound
and absurd 2Pder.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 08 Apr 2008 14:13 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Wailingsatan
Pastor Frank - 09 Apr 2008 10:50 GMT
>>     Get serious!!!! Over-eating and obesity is killing us, and your
>> ankle-biting doesn't help matters. Or are you food addicted and can't
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> unsound
> and absurd 2Pder.

   Why would Andy need to specify, that the 2 pounds of food must be a
balanced diet? Is he talking to totally brainless people? I don't think I
eat 2 lbs a day, unless you include what I drink.
   It's easy to trash everything in sight like you do, only coming up with
something better shows brains, and I haven't seen you even try.
Mike Mordant - 10 Apr 2008 00:39 GMT
> >>     Get serious!!!! Over-eating and obesity is killing us, and your
> >> ankle-biting doesn't help matters. Or are you food addicted and can't
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>     It's easy to trash everything in sight like you do, only coming up with
> something better shows brains, and I haven't seen you even try.

Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
diet:

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> "Bob (this one)" wrote:

>>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

>>>"Bob (this one)" wrote:

>>>>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:

>>>>>AmazingBollWeevil wrote:

>>>>>>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote

>>>>>>>AmazingBollWeevil wrote:

>>>>>>>>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>AmazingBollWeevil wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>AmazingBollWeevil wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>wrote ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>AmazingBollWeevil wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Food does not heal.  The Lord is the source
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>of all healing.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And tell us how you feel about medications,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dear Andrew.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>They are necessary tools for doctors.

>>>>>>>>>>>>So, you believe that food is somehow not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>necessary tool for doctors?

>>>>>>>>>>>Yes.  Food is not a necessary tool for doctors when
>>>>>>>>>>>food is plentiful (ie when everyone is either
>>>>>>>>>>>well-fed or over-fed).

>>>>>>>>>>>The only medical condition that requires food is
>>>>>>>>>>>starvation.

>>But below you say that "it is necessary for the goal of health &
>>wellness" to eat a balanced diet. Food is all there is to any diet and
>>"health and wellness" are issues for the medical community.

>>And, the vast majority of the world's 6 billion people are not well-fed
>>or over-fed. Most are not far from the edges of starvation. What foods
>>should they be eating to get this "balanced diet?"

> Food that is blessed by God.

And how is one to determine which foods they would be? What are the
signals that alert us to the blessing having been given? And if it's
all
foods are blessed, it evades the question you suggest with your
direction that people eat a balanced diet.

>>>>>>>>>>So you're saying that if a patient came to you
>>>>>>>>>>suffering from, say, scurvy, you wouldn't suggest they
>>>>>>>>>>eat foods high in vitamin C?

>>>>>>>>>No.  I would suggest a balanced diet.

>>That would include a lot of Vitamin C. Because it alleviates a bad
>>medical condition...

> Actually, a lot is not required.

And that would be feeding for a medical condition other than
starvation
- contradicting you earlier statement.

>>>>But that "balanced diet" isn't necessary if you're only eating 2
>>>>pounds of food per day?

>>>The "balanced diet" is not necessary for the goal of weight loss
>>>however it is necessary for the goal of health & wellness.

>>So if a person were to weigh, say 400 pounds, is it your claim that
>>nutritional concerns - a balanced diet - is not a necessary issue until
>>they get to their ideal weight?

> I have written plainly.

You have written cryptically and evasively. Sparring for the sake of
sparring with no honest intent to answer medical questions. If your
intent were not to be evasive, you would answer directly with
substantial information. You don't. As here. you offer nothing to
people
who might want to follow the 2PD but don't know how to balance their
diet.

>>Then they should change *what* they eat
>>to balance it?

> There is no evidence that a 400 pound person has been eating an
> unbalanced diet.

But if they have, then they will need to change their diet. To what?
What foods should they be eating to create this balanced diet you urge
them to follow?

>>And what is a balanced diet - definition with examples, please? What are
>>the criteria for such a diet? How would one structure such a diet? What
>>to include; what to exclude?

> If the Lord blesses what you are eating, it will be balanced.

In the functional world, how is one to know if a diet is balanced? How
would you explain to one of your patients that they need to eat a
balanced diet and what it includes? Excludes?

Pastorio
J666 - 10 Apr 2008 01:11 GMT
> Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
> diet

Yes, just 2 pounds a day of fudge, pizza, raw carrots or sugar-free Jello
should work from the youngest to the oldesr, from the smallest to largest
person. All you need is a scale and your healh and being blessed is in the
"balance"according to Disciple Chung.
Pastor Frank - 10 Apr 2008 16:44 GMT
>> Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
>> diet
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> person. All you need is a scale and your healh and being blessed is in the
> "balance"according to Disciple Chung.

    Please show you have a brain by explaining how you would improve on the
2pd so that the average food addicted person will understand, is able to do
it with minimal effort and be motivated to persist. Or are you just a
refuter? LOL
Dubh Ghall - 11 Apr 2008 10:59 GMT
>>> Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
>>> diet
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>2pd so that the average food addicted person will understand, is able to do
>it with minimal effort and be motivated to persist.

Understanding, is irrelevant.

The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
to have the will to do so.

Also, there are a great many things to be considered, when calculating
a diet.

The size of the person, how much exercise they get,  how much exercise
they require, how much exercise they are capable of, even their mental
state, can have an effect.

Anyone, serious about losing weight, would be well advised to ignore
loonies like Chung, and pay their own family doctor a visit.
He is in a MUCH better position to guide them, than your crazy little
friend.

By the by, the abbreviation for "pound", be it  Avoirdupois, or Troy,
is lb.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 11 Apr 2008 12:01 GMT
satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
> > satan via another sockpuppet hissed:
> >> satan via yet another sockpuppet hissed:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Understanding, is irrelevant.

Lie.

Understanding serves as the foundation upon which knowledge is built.
Without understanding, knowledge can have no utility.

"A house built on sand can not stand." -- LORD Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Many thanks, much praise, and all the glory to GOD for HIS compelling
you to unwittingly demonstrate you have neither understanding nor
knowledge.

Laus Deo ! ! !

http://HeartMDPhD.com/LausDeo

Let there be no doubt that GOD is the Source of all knowledge, wisdom,
understanding, and intelligence so that without HIM, you will always
flounder:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Flounderingsatan

... and those who follow your wicked ways will continue to despair:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/SadAtheists

May we, who are Jesus' disciples, continue to rebuke you at each GOD-
given opportunity as GOD desires:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Rebukesatan

<><

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of
Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD

Hunger is wonderful:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Hunger

It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy
of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish ( gone !!! )
forever ...

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyFour

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Bob

... gone:

http://YouTube.com/watch?v=Qb6d_z5C35E

Such will be the demise of all those who refuse to know **and** love
the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love/TheTruth

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/Luke6_21

A simple parable for the wise and discerning:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Parable

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be healthier:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthier

Marana tha

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
A latter-day disciple of the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/DiscipleNow
J666 - 11 Apr 2008 14:27 GMT
> The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
> to have the will to do so.

The desire to lose weight has to be the first step - not the desire of
family, friends, or doctor, but the desire of the person wanting to lose
weight.

There are programs, like Weight Watchers, which can help people, but
basically it has to be a change in life style which encompasses reduction in
quantity and increase in quality of what you eat and an increase in physical
activity.  

The best way is a gradual reduction in the amount/calories of what you eat so
when you reach your weight you just need to keep eating at that level. If you
do it too fast, the body thinks it is starving and slows dowm the metabolic
rate so you need even fewer calories to maintain your weight, so it is harder
to lose weight.  Weight loss is a long-term, even life-long goal.

To paraphrase a slogan from Clinton's 1992 campaign:

It's the calories stupid.
Dubh Ghall - 11 Apr 2008 16:44 GMT
>> The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
>> to have the will to do so.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
>It's the calories stupid.

Just so.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 12 Apr 2008 07:45 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Imbecilesatan
J666 - 12 Apr 2008 12:54 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Its_The_Calories_Stupid
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 12 Apr 2008 13:32 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/DumbSockPuppet
J666 - 12 Apr 2008 13:40 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/2PD_Crap_Approach
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 12 Apr 2008 17:47 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Flailingsatan
Bill Bowden - 12 Apr 2008 07:14 GMT
> > The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
> > to have the will to do so.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> It's the calories stupid.

Actually, 50% of the calories go into metabolism. You don't have to do
much except vegitate to burn half the calories you eat. I lost 30
pounds just sleeping all day before I had cancer surgery. When I left
the hospital, they gave me a big box of chocolate chip cookies to
fatten me up. I only weighed 138 and almost 6 feet high. I ate boxes
of cookies and bags of nuts for 2 months to try and gain weight. I'm
back to normal now (165).

-Bill
Pastor Frank - 13 Apr 2008 02:20 GMT
>> The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
>> to have the will to do so.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> To paraphrase a slogan from Clinton's 1992 campaign:
> It's the calories stupid.

   Preaching like that to addicts is just one more waste of time. Andy
Chung has the answer. Feel blessed and invigorated by the "wide awake" state
of your mind when hungry.
Pastor Frank - 13 Apr 2008 02:14 GMT
>>>> Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
>>>> diet
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> The average over weight person, has to *want* to lose weight, and has
> to have the will to do so.

   Is that what they teach you at AA? You know nothing about addiction, do
you?
Dubh Ghall - 13 Apr 2008 11:20 GMT
>>>>> Actually, Dr. Chung has said that it does not need to be a balanced
>>>>> diet
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>    Is that what they teach you at AA? You know nothing about addiction, do
>you?

If you say so, Frank.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 13 Apr 2008 11:37 GMT
Clearly you are an...

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Imbecilesatan

<><

http://HeartMDPhD.com/ChristianBrethren
J666 - 08 Apr 2008 00:55 GMT
>   Andy knows what he is talking about.

One of the Holey Asstrinities speaks up - the Chung, the Pester and big-mouth
monkfish
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 08 Apr 2008 02:23 GMT
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Idioticsatan
Pastor Frank - 08 Apr 2008 04:12 GMT
>>   Andy knows what he is talking about.
>
> One of the Holey Asstrinities speaks up - the Chung, the Pester and
> big-mouth
> monkfish

   You are a bit of a yahoo, aren't you?
J666 - 08 Apr 2008 13:25 GMT
>   You are a bit of a yahoo, aren't you?

Better than being one of the Holey Asstrinities
 
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