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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / March 2005

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How to know if the cancer exists by a blood or lymph test?

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Dmitry - 11 Feb 2005 14:51 GMT
Hello
How to know if the cancer exists, but not by pulmonary lymph nodes size
measure? For example, by a blood or lymph test?
The pulmonary lymph nodes do not change in size and stay enlarged
slightly. The cancerous kidney was removed on December 4, 2004.
J - 12 Feb 2005 11:01 GMT
> Hello
> How to know if the cancer exists, but not by pulmonary lymph nodes size
> measure? For example, by a blood or lymph test?
> The pulmonary lymph nodes do not change in size and stay enlarged
> slightly. The cancerous kidney was removed on December 4, 2004.

Dmitry, lymph nodes form chains throughout the body, connected to each
other.
I think there's problems with sampling lymph nodes. I've seen that with
other cancer patients on newsgroups.
So they've had whole chains of lymph nodes removed.  But that wouldn't
remove any (potential) cancer in the lymph node chains that they have to
leave behind.  It's a big surgery and i think it's usually done when
removing a tumor or when the lymph nodes are symptomatic if there's no
other solution.

Since your father does not currently have a tumor, I don't know that the
risks of doing so (and potential complications) is a good idea.
You could go with him to see a thoracic surgeon.  Ask the surgeon to show a
body of a man and circle the whole areas of where he would have to cut your
father open (with open surgery) and again, that would not remove the other
lymphs where the potential cancer is.  There's probably 1,000's of lymph
nodes in the body. Some show swollen, some are very tiny.  They can't
remove them all.

I'm not a doctor nor a surgeon, but wonder what you hope to accomplish by
putting your father through that, if he's feeling fairly well at the
moment..?
J - not a doctor
Dmitry - 15 Mar 2005 15:18 GMT
You wrote "at the moment". I want him to feel fairly well always. Most
of doctors say that preventing a desease is more effective than
treating. I want to prevent the cancer spreading. I want to know if the
cancer exists. How to know?

> > Hello
> > How to know if the cancer exists, but not by pulmonary lymph nodes size
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> moment..?
> J - not a doctor
J - 17 Mar 2005 11:33 GMT
> You wrote "at the moment". I want him to feel fairly well always. Most
> of doctors say that preventing a desease is more effective than
> treating. I want to prevent the cancer spreading. I want to know if the
> cancer exists. How to know?

Dmitry,
I think we were hoping that removing one kidney would prolong your father's
life (which it certainly did, because, if I recall correctly, he was
bleeding?), if not put him into spontaneous remission.
I'm not a doctor, but I think that kidney cancer can spread to the other
kidney.

"Lymph nodes (next to kidney), lung, bone, liver, brain, skin" is what it
says here
<http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_2X_What_are_the_risk_factors_f
or_metastatic_cancer_67.asp?sitearea
=>

It seems to me that since his chest lymph nodes are swollen, it's almost
certainly due to cancer, (unless he had some infection, viral or other) and
he's at risk for spead. I don't know of any way 100% to stop that.
I don't know of any 100% way to know where the cancer is without a bunch of
expensive and potentially cause him to be much worse, tests.
I realize that you want him always, but I don't know of any guaranteed
treatment for kidney cancer.
If you and your Dad were living in the US, he might benefit from being in a
clinical trial.
Many in trials (on treatment or placebo) do better in clinical trials, but
that's to improve symptoms.
If he has no symptoms, at the moment, there doesn't seem to be anything to
treat.

There's some tests mentioned here (to look for mets)
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000516.htm
They also mention bloodwork.
I wonder if that would help you?
Of course, he cannot have them every month. There's risks to having too
many imaging tests.
J
Dmitry - 17 Mar 2005 13:47 GMT
We want to treat the cancer, not "symptoms". He does not have symptoms.
We do not want to wait for symptoms, we want to prevent symptoms.
He takes a herbal tincture medicine now, but we do not see what the
medicine does. His surgeon did not recommend participating in a
clinical trial with interferon alfa 2a and a placebo or other medicine,
because he thinks that interferon alfa 2a impairs immunity.
Thanks for your links.
J - 17 Mar 2005 17:14 GMT
> We want to treat the cancer, not "symptoms". He does not have symptoms.
> We do not want to wait for symptoms, we want to prevent symptoms.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> because he thinks that interferon alfa 2a impairs immunity.
> Thanks for your links.

http://www.cancerguide.org/
http://www.acor.org/ Mailing lists
J
Steph - 21 Mar 2005 08:35 GMT
> We want to treat the cancer, not "symptoms". He does not have symptoms.
> We do not want to wait for symptoms, we want to prevent symptoms.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> because he thinks that interferon alfa 2a impairs immunity.
> Thanks for your links.

Under many circumstances, the only sensible thing to treat is "symptoms"
whether we want that or not
Dmitry - 21 Mar 2005 12:03 GMT
Why can not we kill cancer sells in the body and treat cells with gene
P53 defect? Why should we treat "symptoms" only?
Steph - 21 Mar 2005 17:10 GMT
> Why can not we kill cancer sells in the body and treat cells with gene
> P53 defect? Why should we treat "symptoms" only?

Because some things are possible and some are not, and we have to accept the
difference
 
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