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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2004

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PSA Test.  Took it 4 weeks ago.! No result but do have billing.

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John Loomis - 10 Feb 2004 03:03 GMT
Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
I recieved a notice from the only Hospital within 80 miles that they may
cancel Blue Cross, and Blue Shield, due to the fact that the insurance
company wants a 29% discount, and the Hospital can only afford a 20%
discount.  Jees....What do I have to move after living here for since 1979?
to find a hospital that will insure me?  What if I change carriers....Then I
do not get  any regard for prostate cancer, and existing ailments since
Policy inception....
This Country is in very Bad Shape.
I cannot get viagra paid for by Blue Cross.  I think that sucks too.  They
pay for birth control pills, and such but if a "Man" needs erectile function
medication....forget it!
What the difference?  Birth Control allows a woman to have sex without
conception.
Why cannot a man get an aid to allow him to have sex, and without
conception.  Jees.
I pay 1750 every 2 months for Blue Cross of Calif.
I am getting reamed......
Anyway.. so what...any ideas out there gladly taken.  I know moving is the
option......
Good wishes to all my friends.
Still waiting for a PSA taken in January.....jees I give.
I almost feel like never getting a PSA again, and just go on....
What could it hurt?
John Loomis
John B - 10 Feb 2004 04:00 GMT
Hi John, I too have blue cross but of Illinois.  I pay $1200 for me and my
wife  every 2 months and get this with a  $5000 deductible. Once my
deductible was paid blue cross paid for almost everything.
john bing
PSA 10, 09/10/00 @52
Biopsy Neg
PSA 16, 09/09/02 @54
PSA 17, 03/10/03 @54
Biopsy 02/29/03 G7 (3+4) T1c- 1 of 10
RRP 06/19/03 @54
Path Report T2c G6 Clear Margins
PSA 2 Weeks Post .7
PSA 6 Weeks Post <.01
PSA 6 Months Post ,.01

> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> What could it hurt?
> John Loomis
Leonard Evens - 10 Feb 2004 16:52 GMT
> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> What could it hurt?
> John Loomis

Note that not paying for either Viagra or for birth control pills is
discrimination against two people, not just the person taking the pills.
 Your access to Viagra affects your spouse, and a woman's access to
birth control affects her partner.   So this is not a matter of
discrimination against men or women.   It is a matter of transferring
more of the costs of medical care to the patient.

Otherwise, I agree with you about the state of medical insurance in this
country.   Every other developed country in the world has universal
medical insurance, which of course is not the same thing a "socialized
medicine".   Note that thanks to LBJ, we do have close to universal
health insurance for people over 65,  and it has worked pretty well.
But the powers that be want to transfer more of those costs to us also.
 From their perspective, if you are stupid or imprudent enough to get
sick, and you didn't inherit a bundle from your parents, you should go
broke paying for it yourself, shouldn't you? ;-)
John Loomis - 11 Feb 2004 02:05 GMT
> > Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> > Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> broke paying for it yourself, shouldn't you? ;-)
> Hello Leonard,  Yeah....seems that way...I get a dentist appointment, and
pay it all.
I see the eye Dr. and pay it all.
I want viagra, prescription, Pay it all.
I pay 1750 every 2 months for aboutr a 10,000 deductible, and what do I get?
I agree I got help after paying about 8,000 towards premiums for my surgery
etc.....
I feel that they are going to take me down though in the aftermath.....
Thanks for the note.
I wish I could put this in some perspective that I can deal with.
Working an 9 hor day, and helping at home leaves little time for searching
for answers.
You are a nice man.
A friend, John Loomis
Steve Kramer - 11 Feb 2004 11:34 GMT
>   From their perspective, if you are stupid or imprudent enough to get
> sick, and you didn't inherit a bundle from your parents, you should go
> broke paying for it yourself, shouldn't you? ;-)

That's another one.  I'm getting so tired of hearing people tell old people
to divest their money so that LBJ's socialistic program can pick it up their
tab.  My f-i-l has Alzheimers.  Because of it, they decided to sell their
second home in Florida (on the beach on Estero Island -- Value today:  $1
Million).  Then, their lawyer tells them to buy a really nice house here, a
newer Mercedes and give their money to their children.  Which, they did not!
Yes, the nursing home is taking almost all of their money, but the
government is paying one red cent.  And likely, neither will his children.

You go out into the world and make your own way.  It used to be, "if you are
smart, you will put away some money so that you won't be a burden on your
family."  Now, it's, "if you are smart, you'll spend it all and hide the
rest so that the government will take care of you."
Leonard Evens - 11 Feb 2004 15:14 GMT
>>  From their perspective, if you are stupid or imprudent enough to get
>>sick, and you didn't inherit a bundle from your parents, you should go
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Yes, the nursing home is taking almost all of their money, but the
> government is paying one red cent.  And likely, neither will his children.

I've been on both ends of this.   My mother had a stroke and required
care for three years before she died.   We paid for it.   My mother was
reasonably prudent and indeed she had a small four room house in
Florida,  which we sold after she died for $40,000.  There was no way
she could have accumulated enough money to pay for nursing room care,
and selling the house would have paid for about one year at the time.
Instead, since the only thing she could communicate was that she didn't
want to be in a nursing home, we hired someone to take care of her in
her own house, which was a bit less expensive than a nursing home, but
not much.  My wife's grandmother, who was quite wealthy when she was 60
lived to almost 105 and she almost ran out of money.  If she had lived a
couple of year longer, we would have had to pay for her care, which
would have put a big dent into what we had available for our own old
age.   Without LBJ's "socialistic" Medicare, we would have been
bankrupted trying to pay for medical care for my mother and my wife's
gandmother.

I have vowed never to rely on my children to pay for my care, but if one
of us lives long enough, I don't know if I can manage it.   I have long
term care insurance, which costs a fortune, but it pays only part of the
cost.   Most ordinary people just can't manage to save enough money to
pay for their medical care in old age.   The "lucky" ones die quickly at
relatively low cost.  Most have chronic long term problems and without
Medicare they would probably just go without.   Many old people have to
choose between medication and groceries.

Of course, one can always come up with example where relatively well to
do people take advantage of the system.  But that is not reality for
most people.  In your father-in-law's case, if he lives long enough, or
if his wife needs similar care, you may find them coming to their
children.  Of course, the government doesn't pay anything for long term
care for anyone, so they are no different in this respect than anyone else.

> You go out into the world and make your own way.  It used to be, "if you are
> smart, you will put away some money so that you won't be a burden on your
> family."  Now, it's, "if you are smart, you'll spend it all and hide the
> rest so that the government will take care of you."

It is no different now than it has always been.  Rich people have always
had way of shielding their wealth.  Few ordinary people can put aside
enough money to pay for long term care.  Well, perhaps you are happy
that now things have changed and Bill Gates will be able to pass his
billions on to his children without having to pay any estate tax.   So
they at least won't have to worry about putting anything aside.
Steve Kramer - 11 Feb 2004 21:33 GMT
> Well, perhaps you are happy
> that now things have changed and Bill Gates will be able to pass his
> billions on to his children without having to pay any estate tax.

Absolutely.  I also believe in the Ten Commandments, including those about
stealing and coveting my neighbor's property.
Leonard Evens - 12 Feb 2004 03:07 GMT
>>Well, perhaps you are happy
>>that now things have changed and Bill Gates will be able to pass his
>>billions on to his children without having to pay any estate tax.
>
> Absolutely.  I also believe in the Ten Commandments, including those about
> stealing and coveting my neighbor's property.

Taxation is not the same thing as stealing or coveting your neighbor's
property.  It seems to me that the New Testament for example has lots to
say about the responsibilities of the rich towards the poor.  The issue
of a progressive tax systems, where the rich pay more proportionately,
was supposedly settled at the beginning of the 20th century.   But of
course, wealthy people have power through their wealth and eventually
they can change the way people think about such things.  In fact,
through various mechanisms, the rich often end up paying less.

By the way, I don't know what Bill Gates thinks about the estate tax,
but his father is against abolishing it.  He seems to have the old
fashioned idea that each person should basically make his own way
instead of living off what his parents did.
Danny McCarty - 12 Feb 2004 07:19 GMT
>Subject: Re: PSA Test.  Took it 4 weeks ago.! No result but do have billing.
>From: Leonard Evens len@math.northwestern.edu
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Taxation is not the same thing as stealing or coveting your neighbor's
>property.
 Yes it is.  Only a thief doesn't think so.
>  It seems to me that the New Testament for example has lots to
>say about the responsibilities of the rich towards the poor.  The issue
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>fashioned idea that each person should basically make his own way
>instead of living off what his parents did.
Steve Kramer - 12 Feb 2004 11:36 GMT
It's kind of silly to use Gates as an example.  He is an anomoly like none
other, possibly in the history of man.

But progressive tax was an idea regarding income tax, not estate tax.  And,
the issue is far from settled.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> >
> >>Well, perhaps you are happy
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> fashioned idea that each person should basically make his own way
> instead of living off what his parents did.
Rebecca Ford - 10 Feb 2004 18:38 GMT
Just remember that for many of us women, we've had to fight like hell to get
birth control paid for. The money I spent over the years paying for the pill
is outrageous when you think that they will readily pay for the ob care for
preganancy and birth. In both Washington state and Ohio (2 of the 3 states I
lived in and had coverage), Blue Cross never did pay for birth control, yet
did pay for Viagra. I suppose the upside now is that at 35 I'll never have
to worry about it again due to hubby's "radical vasectomy".
Signature

Rebecca Ford

> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> What could it hurt?
> John Loomis
John Loomis - 11 Feb 2004 02:09 GMT
> Just remember that for many of us women, we've had to fight like hell to get
> birth control paid for. The money I spent over the years paying for the pill
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> did pay for Viagra. I suppose the upside now is that at 35 I'll never have
> to worry about it again due to hubby's "radical vasectomy".

they dont pay for viagra for me!  I have one nerve spared and buy 100 mgs
and or 10 pills for 100.00, They think I am a sex adick
Jees, would love them to get reamed and stripped of a prostate, and then
come begging for viagra.
Oh well, I buy the stuff, and it last me for a "long time"
The price we pay for a little lovin...
John Loomis

> > Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> > Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> > What could it hurt?
> > John Loomis
Steve Kramer - 11 Feb 2004 12:01 GMT
My mother's last one was when she was 41.  She could afford  birth control,
but she was Catholic.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> Just remember that for many of us women, we've had to fight like hell to get
> birth control paid for. The money I spent over the years paying for the pill
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> > What could it hurt?
> > John Loomis
jk - 11 Feb 2004 02:14 GMT
> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> What could it hurt?
> John Loomis

 Hey John you could move north to Canada where all your care and meds are
free.... Personally I don't like the trade-off in all the other things we
take for granted here.

Signature

JK Sinrod NY
Sinrod Stained Glass
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

David S - 11 Feb 2004 02:43 GMT
> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.

Hi John:
   Just wanted to say that in this country we spend way too much for
healthcare and receive way too little for that investment.  I do not have
any hope that it will change in my lifetime though.
   Good luck to you.
   Thank you.
David S.
Steve Kramer - 11 Feb 2004 11:22 GMT
I just had a very similar experience.  Our Anthem Blue Cross and the major
hospital chain I have always used decided neither could afford the other.
When you start looking at eliminated hospitals (especially since these are
the No. 1 and No. 2 hospitals in this region) something has really gone awry
somewhere.

And I think I know where.  It's your Viagra, and my Cavercheck, and all
those birth control pills.  I, for one, can afford to go to a doctor.  And I
can afford non-essential drugs.  I can't afford to pay for hospital stays or
$1700-a-shot drugs.  But, I'd be willing to bet that insurance costs would
plummit if we all paid our own preventative care visits and elective drug
costs.

No realy thought behind that assertion (or theory, actually), just a
thought.
Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> What could it hurt?
> John Loomis
Outlivecancer - 12 Feb 2004 09:25 GMT
Boy sex,money and religion are hot button issues aren't they?First off Blue
shield of CA. did pay for viagra once I hassled my uro's office to get it
preapproved.Gave 6 100mg. a mo.w/ 1 refill,like 48 bucks ,can split pills..Then
repeat pre auth.Call Blue Cross Drug benefit and talk to them.Now I was offered
a lower co-pay to go into the valley for my op. but I stayed with my doc and
got post authorisation because of travel ,talk to them they can be OK sometimes
if reasonable,dunno maybe being ppo better,other hmos worse.Now I get results
from PSAs at noon on 2nd day by phone,or my anxiety would peak.As for the rest
I don't mind my tax money going to health,at least we skip most crackpot
science like that Brit doc that said no evidence PSAs save lives lol,no he's
right we are all gonna die someday.Why is it that science and social science
studies come out the way that big money or govt. wants?Keep coming at these
systems and squeaking wheels.
Steve Kramer - 12 Feb 2004 11:46 GMT
> Why is it that science and social science
> studies come out the way that big money or govt. wants?

Power.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

Alan Meyer - 13 Feb 2004 18:00 GMT
> Hello Everyone,  The Medical insurance in America really sucks.   I have
> Blue Cross of Calif.  I have had that for many many years.(10 or 12)
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> do not get  any regard for prostate cancer, and existing ailments since
> Policy inception....

John,

I agree that medical insurance sucks.  The patient gets screwed and,
believe it or not, the doctors get screwed too.

My wife is an independent clinical social worker.  She sees clients
who, mostly, pay their bills via insurance.  The insurance companies
drag their feet, don't pay, "accidentally" lose the claims she sends them
disallow claims they've already approved, reject claims without even
notifying her of the reason why while she sits waiting to be paid, and
so on.

The patients are squeezed and the doctors are squeezed.  So why is
our health care the most expensive in the world?  Could it be that
drug and insurance companies are making huge profits?

Over the last 20 years I've paid about $100,000 to my HMO and
my family has gotten back about $10-15,000 in services.  I don't
mind that if it means that really sick people get help, and I and
my wife will get help if we get really sick.  But I know it's all
precarious.
If they drop me I'll never be able to get insurance again and all the
good money I've spent will be just down the tubes.

I think we should take our concerns to the ballot box.  We should
elect public officials who are willing to fight the big insurance and
drug companies and who want adequate coverage for all people
at a reasonable price.

  Alan
 
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