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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2004

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IMPORTANT INFORMATION - luck of that draw - part 2

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c palmer - 01 Feb 2004 19:51 GMT
hi folks - i posted that a gentleman had basically the same psa as mine,
same stage, and gleason, but could not have nerve sparing.
 
mine  was 6.35, T1c, gleason 3 + 3
his was 5.7, T1c, gleason 3 + 3

well, we all talk about finding a surgeon who has the most RP's, the
surgeon who does so many a year,  the surgeon who has lots of
experience.  what we don't know of the following.

this is the same surgeon who did my surgery.  he is on a team of two
surgeons and they are both excellent.  i do not doubt their skills one
bit.  but why the two different results?

the gentleman went in last week to have the staples removed and ask the
surgeon the same question as to why the nerves couldn't be spared.  the
surgeon he asked was the surgeon with the highest success rate of nerve
sparing between the two and here is what he said.

the surgeon told him that because his prostate set so deep in his body
as compared to the normal prostate and because of the web around it,
that there was absolutely no way they could save the nerves.  

i remember that my prostate set high and in front.  when i got a DRE, it
felt like they were digging for gold in china.  but when it came time
for the big decision, i was told by the one doctor that it would an
easier operation because my prostate set up high and in front on the
body, which made it easier to get to.  and the operation was a "text
book" operation - their words, not mine.

now, there  you have it.  same surgeon, basically same patient,
different results.  

now, it has got me to wondering......would an LRP been the better choice
(for him) vs the RRP because the machine can get down closer and do
things that the human hands couldn't.  i don't have an answer.  those
were my thoughts.  

anybody got any thoughts on the matter?

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
Alan Meyer - 01 Feb 2004 21:13 GMT
> hi folks - i posted that a gentleman had basically the same psa as mine,
> same stage, and gleason, but could not have nerve sparing.
...
> now, it has got me to wondering......would an LRP been the better choice
> (for him) vs the RRP because the machine can get down closer and do
> things that the human hands couldn't.  i don't have an answer.  those
> were my thoughts.
>
> anybody got any thoughts on the matter?

I have no idea about the answer, but it's a great question.  If
the position of the prostate is a key determinant of whether
nerve sparing is practical with one technique but not another,
then this is something a responsible surgeon should
investigate and advise his patient about - before he performs
an operation.

Surgeons making life and death decisions and procedures
on a regular basis can get a little cavalier about a little thing
like nerve sparing.  But as educated patients we should pursue
this question.  If anyone has an answer, it should be posted here
and also sent to the important PCa websites for inclusion in the
info they give to patients.

   Alan
johng - 01 Feb 2004 21:38 GMT
> the surgeon told him that because his prostate set so deep in his body
> as compared to the normal prostate and because of the web around it,
> that there was absolutely no way they could save the nerves.

Is one of you more overweight than another?   Is that what makes one harder
to reach than another?   Or is that part irrelevant?

Seems to me I heard that some very heavy persons need to have surgery from
the back rather than the front, or some such thing.   Maybe somebody who
knows (as opposed to me and my vague recollections) could explain.

Either way, you'd hope that if a person had a prostate that's less
accessible to the knife, that fact would be discussed and taken into account
ahead of time.   Of course, the part about a "web around it" would not be
known ahead of time.

JohnG
c palmer - 01 Feb 2004 23:53 GMT
hi john - weight question - really good question.

my surgeon asked me how much i weighed at the time.  i had lost over 60
lbs, but was 266 at the time.  i went in at 255 at the time of surgery,
but i carry the weight above belt, if you know what i mean.  there was
very little difference at the surgery site.

the other gentleman, i do not know his exact weight, but in just general
conservation with him, he indicated that he was on the heavier side but
no where near my weight.  i'm thinking he said he was about 20 lbs over
what he should weigh.

john - you also are bringing up the question about whether or not
prostate positioning would lend itself to the knife.

that is why i've never heard of what the conditions are for why a RRP,
RPP, or the LRP would be favorable over the other.....other than it was
something a patient would want to choose.  with this new information
brought to light, maybe we will get some answers to these questions we
are raising.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
 
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