Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2004
Implant??
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MH - 31 Jan 2004 02:35 GMT Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember anyone mentioning it, but just wondered.
MikeH
John Loomis - 31 Jan 2004 03:18 GMT Yep...dont go that route. Once done that is it......! Do you try injection, viagra, and what year is your surgery compared to your inability? In other words, it took me 2 years to get good again. Are you there yet?
> Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember > anyone mentioning it, but just wondered. > > MikeH MH - 31 Jan 2004 14:12 GMT > Yep...dont go that route. Once done that is it......! > Do you try injection, viagra, and what year is your surgery compared to your > inability? > In other words, it took me 2 years to get good again. Are you there yet? Yes, Viagra, Cialis, Levitra... etc... pump.... I will be *there* before I make any decision whatsoever about the implant. But at two years..... or three... if there is no improvement.... and I still have this horrible Peyronie's that developped when I started using the injections... What should I do, John???? You got yours back..... and I'm glad for you. But what about those of us who *don't* get it back?? I know that there's no going backward from an implant. But I know, too, that at 53 years of age I don't want to spend the rest of my life with a painful *bent* erection. I will be two years in November. If I get to that point with no function, I'll *consider* the options. But having an implant would just be *one more hurdle* to jump, it seems.... at least for me. Just wanted to talk with other guys who had *had* one... to see if they were happy with the results or not.
Take care... and enjoy your erectile function. Not all of us are so lucky!!
MikeH
Steve Kramer - 31 Jan 2004 10:49 GMT Mike,
There was one. He last posted at least a year ago. I wish I could remember his address. He was extremely happy with it.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
> Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember > anyone mentioning it, but just wondered. > > MikeH MH - 31 Jan 2004 14:07 GMT > Mike, > > There was one. He last posted at least a year ago. I wish I could remember > his address. He was extremely happy with it. Thanks, Steve.... I'm sure a year ago I was so immersed in my recovery I wasn't even noticing implant discussions. It has been 15 months since my surgery. I've tried Viagra, Levitra, Cialis... all with little to no help. I have used a pump, which I hate. I used injections..... then developped the Peyronie's. The last uro I saw said the only solution to both my Peyronie's and the ED would be an implant, but that he would not recommend it for at least another year. I have run across a few guys on other lists.... ALL have been very pleased with their implants. Still, it would be a *big* psychological hurdle to cross. And it's not something that is imminent for me. I was just fishing around to see if anyone here on the Newsgroup had gone that route.....or considered it. I don't know what I will do at some future point. I'm not ruling it out entirely. I'd much rather have my own erections. But... if they are all deformed by the Peyronie's... and painful/uncomfortable... there is really no point. And this Peyronie's plaque is something I can feel very clearly... and the uro said that he can't do anything for it because of where it is located.... It's not going to just go away on its own, as PD does in some cases.
Anywho.... was just asking. Thanks for the response.
Have a good one! MikeH
Steve Kramer - 31 Jan 2004 21:01 GMT For a short period, it was discussed heavily on the NG. You can watch an implant operation, btw, at www. Phoenix5.com. The end consensus (though John Loomis seems to disagree) was that implant is the gold standard, but due to irreversibility and bodily invasion, the last resort.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
> > > Mike, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Have a good one! > MikeH Dave Perry - 02 Feb 2004 03:52 GMT My wife was a volunteer for many years at a VA hospital and she saw quite a few of the early implants (pre-1990) and noted that there were numerous unpleasant side effects up to and including gangrene (ouch!). No doubt there have been improvements in technique since then but the thought of major surgery for me yet again with my track record of being susceptible to side effects (still incontinent and with ED and hell I was one of the 2% with side effects from a vasectomy 30 years ago), I think I will opt for something else besides the implant. I know there are lots of guys happy with theirs but I will let the doctors practice medicine on someone else. Dave Perry
> Thanks, Steve.... > I'm sure a year ago I was so immersed in my recovery I wasn't even noticing [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Have a good one! > MikeH MH - 02 Feb 2004 13:02 GMT I can understand your hesitation, Dave. And I'm not sure it's something I will eventually decide to do or not. I have a while yet before I even think about it. But I have come across several men on the Net who have them... and have been *extremely* pleased!
Take care.... MikeH
> My wife was a volunteer for many years at a VA hospital and she saw > quite a few of the early implants (pre-1990) and noted that there were [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > doctors practice medicine on someone else. > Dave Perry Junior Edens - 03 Feb 2004 19:44 GMT I had an implant 9-8-2003, It was a three piece AMS 700 Series. It made by the American Medical Systems. I am 73 years old, I had RRP 10-10-2002. I have been a diabetic for more then 20 years. I also had pyrones, In my case it was a wise move. I tried the shots and the pills without any luck. I am not sorry that I had the implant. When you are 73 old a person just can't wait for years hoping that nature will take care of things.
MH - 03 Feb 2004 21:07 GMT Thanks for your reply, Junior....
Could you share with us a bit about the implant procedure? I'm wondering just how painful you would say it was? How long it took to heal? How long before you could use it? Does it feel *natural*?? Was this an out-patient procedure or did you stay overnight in the hospital?
Take care... MikeH
> I had an implant 9-8-2003, It was a three piece > AMS 700 Series. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > When you are 73 old a person just can't wait for > years hoping that nature will take care of things. Junior Edens - 04 Feb 2004 12:23 GMT MikeH, It was an overnite stay, It took about a month to heal. For me sex is much better now. Size is also larger, After surgery I was left with an very small penis. Dr.Stephen Wilson from Ark. did the surgery. He has done over 7,000 implants. The peyrones is hard to live with. The implant took care of that. I would say use the implant as the last resort. It isn't something everyone should have done.
MH - 04 Feb 2004 12:53 GMT Thanks, Junior!!
MikeH
> MikeH, > It was an overnite stay, It took about a month to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I would say use the implant as the last resort. > It isn't something everyone should have done. Beverley - 01 Feb 2004 15:03 GMT We've had two or three posters with implants. Luke is who you were trying to remember and I just sent the only known addy I had for Luke to Mike. Bev
> Mike, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > MikeH MH - 01 Feb 2004 18:11 GMT > We've had two or three posters with implants. Luke is who you were trying to > remember and I just sent the only known addy I had for Luke to Mike. > Bev Thanks, Bev...
MikeH
Alan Meyer - 31 Jan 2004 19:58 GMT > Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember > anyone mentioning it, but just wondered. I wouldn't even consider it. Here's why:
1. It's a significant surgery.
2. Your penis can never be the same if the implant is removed.
3. It does nothing for sexual sensations at all. I'd worry that the doctor could make that worse by the cutting and stuffing.
4. Who knows what problems you might have with it down the road? Think for example of problems women have with breast implants - which are probably simpler.
I'd prefer sex without an erection. And if my partner wanted a dildo, I'd buy one (or several different ones) rather than build one into my body.
Steve Kramer - 31 Jan 2004 21:15 GMT Ah, yes. But there are other factors. For instance, what if the full six inches and full rigidity are essential for sex with your partner?
> > Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember > > anyone mentioning it, but just wondered. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > a dildo, I'd buy one (or several different ones) rather than build > one into my body. Alan Meyer - 31 Jan 2004 22:07 GMT I understand the difficulty.
I'm fortunate to have been blessed with a flexible and accommodating partner.
> Ah, yes. But there are other factors. For instance, what if the full six > inches and full rigidity are essential for sex with your partner? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > a dildo, I'd buy one (or several different ones) rather than build > > one into my body. John Loomis - 31 Jan 2004 23:45 GMT MH is having difficulty, and like most men prefer to have some normalcy back in sex. With one nerve spared, and 2 years later, things got connected for me. Some men need differing aspects to help them through this turn of events. The Implant has great rewards, and men and women do use that option! so, it is easy to say what a person would do, and in their shoes, but let that decision be made by the person in his shoes. WE hope that everyone can come up with some satisfactory result after being so compromised in such a demeaning way. You are all my friends, and I try to help if I can! John Loomis
> I understand the difficulty. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > a dildo, I'd buy one (or several different ones) rather than build > > > one into my body. MH - 01 Feb 2004 03:04 GMT > > Has anyone here had an implant for erectile dysfunction? I don't remember > > anyone mentioning it, but just wondered.
> I'd prefer sex without an erection. And if my partner wanted > a dildo, I'd buy one (or several different ones) rather than build > one into my body. You are lucky to have a partner who wants sex... Before surgery, I had been going solo for quite a long time, except for the occasion every couple of months when my wife would give in to my wishes. Yes, I can still do that without an erection.... but it's just not the same. It never will be. And I have to just accept that and move on to a life without it.
Thanks for your input, Alan... I appreciate *all* opinions....
Take care, MikeH
Steve Kramer - 01 Feb 2004 17:12 GMT > You are lucky to have a partner who wants sex... Before surgery, I had been > going solo for quite a long time, except for the occasion every couple of > months when my wife would give in to my wishes. Yes, I can still do that > without an erection.... but it's just not the same. My problem, too. An unwilling wife made Lupron a moot point.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
MH - 01 Feb 2004 18:02 GMT > > You are lucky to have a partner who wants sex... Before surgery, I had > been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > My problem, too. An unwilling wife made Lupron a moot point. It's great to feel wanted, isn't it, Steve?? :((
BTW, how are you feeling on the Lupron?? Having hot flashes or anything like that? Are you getting more in touch with your feminine side? ;)
Take care, guy... MikeH
Steve Kramer - 02 Feb 2004 10:38 GMT > BTW, how are you feeling on the Lupron?? Having hot flashes or anything > like that? Are you getting more in touch with your feminine side? ;) I think you are kidding about the feminine side, but just in case..... There is nothing in Lupron (or even actual castration) that causes you to become more feminine. Oh, I thought it was a brain pill, but I don't understand women anymore now than I did during the last millennium.
The only side effect I have is hot flashes. And those are so mild that when I realized what was going on, I was just wondering if someone had turned the heat up a couple of degrees. I haven't had a hot flash in the last two weeks.
Maybe, just maybe, I have a slightly decreased mental acuity. There are times where just the right word will not come to the forefront when I'm speaking or typing. I know it's a possible side effect, but I can't remember the term for it.
Otherwise, nothing much in my life has changed. I work (more than 2400 hours during 2003), I walk, and it seems like every weekend I'm helping someone in my family move furniture (I have the only truck).
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
MH - 02 Feb 2004 12:57 GMT Yes, Steve, I was kidding about your feminine side!! ;)
But it sounds like the effects of the Lupron are not really so bad to live with.
Now, if you could just trade that truck for the Harley! :))
Take care, MikeH
> > BTW, how are you feeling on the Lupron?? Having hot flashes or anything > > like that? Are you getting more in touch with your feminine side? ;) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > hours during 2003), I walk, and it seems like every weekend I'm helping > someone in my family move furniture (I have the only truck). Steve Kramer - 02 Feb 2004 21:34 GMT The effects of Lupron are not so bad for ME. I don't claim anything else. Iunderstand they can be almost debilitating.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
> Yes, Steve, I was kidding about your feminine side!! ;) > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > hours during 2003), I walk, and it seems like every weekend I'm helping > > someone in my family move furniture (I have the only truck). c palmer - 02 Feb 2004 23:55 GMT hi steve - having been down this road and seeing some of the effects on how it affects the body and mind. it was, well, works fail me right now, but allow me to explain it.
my dad was one of those hard, stanch, lack of emotions, and never ever cried.
i've seen him go through the woods on his golf cart and didn't see a tree limb and got struck in the head by it, so hard, that white of his eye turned totally blood red and his only comment that he said at the time it happened was ," didn't hurt" and went about his business, never giving it a second thought.
while on lupron, i watched him to go from the above sentence to a man who would be talking to a person (male or female) and would break down in tears - and it wasn't brought on by an emotional moment. he would just start crying for no reason and still try to talk through the tears. sure takes away from the meaning of what he trying to say. as he stayed on the lupron through the years, the incidents of crying spells increased and his last year, but would burst into tears at least once in a conversation.
to see someone go from what you grew up with to someone you have having to take care of like what i've described is a mind trip unto itself.
add to that, he hit a tree in a car accident 3 yrs before he died and it put him on the fast track of alzhimer's and he was losing control on his emotions even more.
he would be sitting there in his wheel chair and break into a crying spell.
yeah, we talk about the cures, we talk about the hormone treatments, but we don't get down to the nitty gritty of just how terrible this can get. like you said, it can get debilitating.
and i didn't even begin to cover the feelings from the hot flashes, the growing of breasts, and the softness of the body.
for a man who was always known for his muscle tone, i saw his body go from that state to so soft, i said that he could sit in a square box, and his body was so soft, would fill in the corners.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
Steve Kramer - 03 Feb 2004 03:05 GMT > hi steve - having been down this road and seeing some of the effects on > how it affects the body and mind. it was, well, works fail me right [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > time it happened was ," didn't hurt" and went about his business, never > giving it a second thought. Ha! I once got out of the rear seat of a car by grabbing the center post just as the driver was closing the front door. I was almost standing when the finger broke. I saw my fingers through the glass from the outside and calmly said, "that's going to hurt", while the driver was frantically looking for the keys to unlock the door and free my hand.
I guess there is a possible side effect of raw emotions. I wasn't thinking about that with reference to getting in touch with my feminine side. I guess it's a side effect that I could still have down the road.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
JohnG - 03 Feb 2004 03:52 GMT > Ha! I once got out of the rear seat of a car by grabbing the center post > just as the driver was closing the front door. I was almost standing when [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > about that with reference to getting in touch with my feminine side. I > guess it's a side effect that I could still have down the road. One thing I've learned through this PCa stuff is that my emotional makeup isn't something entirely under my control. In those months after surgery when I was dealing with ED issues, I'd sometimes say to myself, "I can't believe I'm reacting this way." But I was. I don't know if that experience would make it easier or harder to deal with Lupron-induced emotional states, if it should ever come to that.
Life is interesting, sometimes.
JohnG
Beverley - 06 Feb 2004 01:50 GMT This is not an area that I have had to investigate but I know this and I don't know if it applies but I think it would. Just my brain wanderings.............
If you castrate a young male he never gets the deeper voice and stays somewhat youthful in appearance, as in body shape, lack of body hair, beard, and that sort of thing. But if you do it after puberty these patterns have already be set in motion and therefore do not "backtrack". Historically castration of male youths was common for various reason.
If you neuter your male cat while it is young it never develops some of the "nasty" habits of marking territory, "humping" etc. But if you wait until it is fully grown to neuter him it might cut some of it down but it won't stop him. (Same goes for a dog.)
So with those things which are known why would someone surmise that a male would take on feminine qualities just because a drug is "neutralizing" the testosterone? It's not like getting estrogen shots. Once a man always a man .............unless of course ....well, we won't go there - there's probably another newsgroup for that. LOL Bev
> > hi steve - having been down this road and seeing some of the effects on > > how it affects the body and mind. it was, well, works fail me right [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Ha! I once got out of the rear seat of a car by grabbing the center post
> just as the driver was closing the front door. I was almost standing when > the finger broke. I saw my fingers through the glass from the outside and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > about that with reference to getting in touch with my feminine side. I > guess it's a side effect that I could still have down the road. Steve Kramer - 06 Feb 2004 11:37 GMT The same way males learn how they are to react and continue to do that even after the testes are removed, is, I suspect, the way people react to the words 'hormone treatment'. Though it never did turn anyone gay or feminine, it did make men grow breasts and become more emotional. Ergo, they must all do that.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03
> This is not an area that I have had to investigate but I know this and I > don't know if it applies but I think it would. Just my brain [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > about that with reference to getting in touch with my feminine side. I > > guess it's a side effect that I could still have down the road. olfart - 02 Feb 2004 15:10 GMT > > BTW, how are you feeling on the Lupron?? Having hot flashes or anything > > like that? Are you getting more in touch with your feminine side? ;) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > heat up a couple of degrees. I haven't had a hot flash in the last two > weeks. <snip> Age may have something to do with the intensity of Lupron side effects. I'm 67 and into the second month of my first shot. The hot flashes get pretty intense at times - mostly when tying to sleep - actually break a sweat sometimes.. I had really bad insomnia the first few weeks which could have been caused by the Eulixon which I took for 30 days - sleep much improved now. The other side effect which is bothersome is increased sensitivity(soreness) in the areas where I have arthritis. In general though the side efects are very tolerable when you consider why I am taking Lupron. And I haven't had a sudden urge to redecorate the inside of the house in shocking pink (:>) Age - 67 8/12/02 - PSA 3.7 10/13/03 - PSA 4.69 11/11/03 - PSA 4.8 11/18/03 - Biopsy - 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 - Consult - Oncologist 12/16/03 - Consult - Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan - HT - started 12/17/03 - Eulixen & Lupron Radiation - IMRT to begin 3/14/04 - for 5 weeks Theraseed implant after Radiation completed
Gogarty - 03 Feb 2004 18:17 GMT >My problem, too. An unwilling wife made Lupron a moot point. Seems to be a quite common problem. Since Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra don't work unless the libido is aroused, they too are moot.
I certainly would not get an implant (did discuss with doctor who was quite happy to do the job if I wished and who gave me a TV tape describing and illustrating the whole thing in painful detail) unless I could exopect it to get very regular workouts. But I have found four years after surgery that nothing works like mutual libido, which is, Alas! a sometime thing.
What price domestic tranquility?
Steve Kramer - 03 Feb 2004 23:40 GMT > I certainly would not get an implant (did discuss with doctor who was quite > happy to do the job if I wished and who gave me a TV tape describing and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What price domestic tranquility? I think if I knew that it would work and that I was going to live for, say, 10 years, I'd do it. I think the closeness is important for a marriage. Even if it's her fault, it's probably worth it.
MH - 04 Feb 2004 00:46 GMT > > I certainly would not get an implant (did discuss with doctor who was > quite [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > 10 years, I'd do it. I think the closeness is important for a marriage. > Even if it's her fault, it's probably worth it. So, Steve.... ten years from now, when you are still going strong (and I fully expect you to be here with us, my friend!) ... are you going to wish you had gone ahead and had that implant?? I, too, think the closeness is important for a marriage. I wish there were more physical closeness in mine... and I hear others saying the same things at times. On the other hand, lots of guys here seem to be really lucky in that department.
Take care! MikeH
Steve Kramer - 04 Feb 2004 01:26 GMT > So, Steve.... ten years from now, when you are still going strong (and I > fully expect you to be here with us, my friend!) ... are you going to wish > you had gone ahead and had that implant?? If I'm to make it 10 years, then I have plenty of time to decide. My first goal is to make it two years on Lupron. If I do that, my next is to make it ? or 1 year off Lupron without a rise in PSA. If I do that, then I'll start thinking implant. By then I should know that Willie aint working or is working.
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