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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2004

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"BOHICA" and other side effects

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R. Asby Dragon - 21 Jan 2004 08:21 GMT
"BOHICA"   =  Bend Over; Here It Comes Again ..

Old miltiary acronym used for various 'things'; but it definitely applies to
long-term diarrhea . You know it's bad when there's no "brown tinge" and it's
all watery foam with the bright chromium yellow color that your pee has if you
megadose on multivitamins.

That was me in the last week of (a month of)  whole-pelvic radiation; and about
a week after.

One month later--- after the palladium seeds it's BOHICA again . I tried going
to work and "browned out my shorts" 2-3 times a day; even with 'adult
incontinance' wear it's smelly . Even when your co-workers know and accept it--
it's not a fun situation!

That's not all-- I started with a 4-month Lupron hormone shot (testosterone
suppressant) -- I now have total understanding of women's issues with "hot
flashes"..  freeze at 74 degF and be covered and dripping with sweat at 64 degF!

Now (1.5 weeks post seeds); I'm also gettin severe perinium pain . I tried
looking at my butt with a mirror and could only see a dull red inflammation.  My
wife's been trained as a hospice support person but not a nurse; so she can't
medically say what's wrong.  But (bad pun) ; at least she let me "moon her" and
she says it's more like a radiation burn than infection from what she's seen .

Here's the 'kicker' --
I've been exposed to high doses of ionizing radiation from testing military
aircraft radar and operating high-power tactical military comm microwave gear
(well over 1KW continuous for long times)  (22 years) . Could this have made me
highly sensitive to the radiation treatments ?
c palmer - 21 Jan 2004 11:53 GMT
hi R - as i read your post, i thought of the BOHICA routine and that
part put a smile on my face.  i just wanted you to know that part of
funny, but i know the rest of it is not.  and you did ask a very
important question.  so, here's the answer.

you already know that from your experience that radiation damage is
cumulative.  the burning sensation is part of the collateral damage i
think.  the tip off, as i see it, is that the radiation damage is
usually not immediate, but comes at a later date, which is what you are
describing.  

as you already know, the good news, is that it will let up, but you
still could have more collateral damage still to come.  it is just a
"one of those wait and see periods"

there is meds to ease your problem for right now and that is what i
would steer you to.....see the doctor, and have him prescribe a med for
you.

you might want to do some research on the damage of the colon due to
high radiation.  this is where you may experience bleeding 6 months or
so down the road.  

as you said, it's BOHICA.

best of luck.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
Steve Kramer - 21 Jan 2004 18:11 GMT
R. Asby,

First, let me thank you for your service to our country.

It doesn't sound like it, but if you were in-country during Viet Nam, the VA
will foot the bill for a lot of your medical attention.  Just lettin' you
know.

As far as prior radiation exposure, I suspect that it is possible.  The
thing about radiation is that it causes cells to self-destruct.  I imagine
that radiation of any degree will cause the self-destruction, but that our
bodies create sufficient cells to replace dead ones up to a certain extent
of radiation.  However, the self-destruction does not stop and I suppose
that adding more radiation to areas that have already been radiated can
cause the area to be more susceptible than most of us.  As I recall, there
is even a log kept at medical and nuclear facilities to keep track of the
amount of total radiation and that people might be taken out of those areas
forever if it gets to a certain point.  That would tend to support your
inquiry and my supposition.

Unfortunately, it doesn't make any difference in the end (pun not intended).
Your decision is to kill the cancer or be killed by it.  So long as you live
through the radiation, I'm sure your choice will be kill the bastard.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> "BOHICA"   =  Bend Over; Here It Comes Again ..
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> (well over 1KW continuous for long times)  (22 years) . Could this have made me
> highly sensitive to the radiation treatments ?
Alan Meyer - 21 Jan 2004 23:40 GMT
> "BOHICA"   =  Bend Over; Here It Comes Again ..
>
> Now (1.5 weeks post seeds); I'm also gettin severe perinium pain.

I'm not knowledgeable enough about any of this to answer your
other questions, but about this one, you might ask your doctor if
it's okay to use ice, skin cream, and/or ibuprofen.

I found that ice would quickly stop the pain in my perineum (due,
I think, to prostatits, EBRT, and HDR brachytherapy).  Of course
you don't want to freeze yourself, but a few minutes of an ice
pack can provide great and immediate relief.  It doesn't last for
a long time, but does last beyond the immediate application.

Skin cream may help if what you've got is a skin irritation.

Ibuprofen may help (as will ice) if what you've got is inflammation.

Another possible cause is infection introduced when the
treatment catheters were inserted in the prostate.  If you have fever,
high white blood count, or other signs of infection you may need
an antibiotic treatment.

If they used iodine seeds, the half-life is about 60 days.  So you'll
continue to receive substantial amounts of new radiation from the
seeds for quite a while yet.  But it is gradually subsiding and relief
will eventually come your way.  In 50 days you'll be down to one
half your current exposure.  In 110 days it will be one quarter.

If the pain is coming from the procedure rather than the radiation,
then relief should come a lot sooner than that.

   Alan
cured? - 22 Jan 2004 23:34 GMT
I know the brown out feeling!Try taking an Immodium tablet in the morning
with your vitamins plus a couple of slow release iron supplements.Anybody
that has had kids knows how Iron will bind them up.Good luck
Bob - 19 Mar 2004 00:28 GMT
The seven weeks of whole-pelvic radiation left me with what appears to be a
lifelong dependence upon Imodium AD.  The radiation followed surgery three
plus years ago and very few days have gone by without the Imodium.  It has
made all the difference for me, and the few times I've tried to do without
were mistakes.  One tablet in the morning does pretty well, but there are
time when it has to be followed by  1 to1/2 tablet at night, especially  if
I know that upon arising in the morning, I will not have immediate access to
the john when mother nature calls. Like when you are gone visiting and will
have competition for the john, or are camping and will have a trek to
facilities, and so forth.  Diet also plays a big role and determines how
much Imodium will be needed.  A very high protein diet makes things more
regular and predictable and solid.  A diet higher  in vegetables results in
lots of quick trips to the john, often 3-4 times before even heading out the
door to go to work in the morning.  A deposit or two has been made along
roadsides as well, not too cool.  You gotta do what you gotta do.  The Dr.'s
told me that I can take as much Imodium as I need, as often as needed.

The Lupron has it's own bag of side effects, as you already know, and they
seem to vary from man to man.  I think that I had most of them in the year I
was on it, but at least all the side effects did not happen at once.  Each
one would come and go.  Except for the hot flashes. Lotsa fun!!  And you
never get a hot flash when you could really use it either!  Even now, having
been off the stuff for a long time,  a warm crowded meeting room with no air
movement will bring one on for sure.  I expect to go back on it in about two
months.

You did not ask for all of this, but I had to bring up the Imodium
thing-----I do not think that I could do my job or have much of a life
without it.  With it, and a lot of caution, things are going pretty good for
someone the Dr. said had maybe a 50-50 chance of another two years.  Three
and 1/2 years ago.

Glad to see that you have a sense of humor, and the support of what must be
a good spouse.  Best wishes, hope you get a handle on these side effects and
manage to get back to whatever normalcy may be nowadays.
> "BOHICA"   =  Bend Over; Here It Comes Again ..
Steve Kramer - 19 Mar 2004 01:27 GMT
I don't know which "Bob" you are.  I've seen half a dozen Bobs to say
nothing of a few Roberts.

Regardless, we most certainly did 'ask for it'.  We ask for it every time we
log on to this NG.  That is exactly what we are here for.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03


> You did not ask for all of this, but I had to bring up the Imodium
> thing-----I do not think that I could do my job or have much of a life
> without it.  With it, and a lot of caution, things are going pretty good for
> someone the Dr. said had maybe a 50-50 chance of another two years.  Three
> and 1/2 years ago.

> > "BOHICA"   =  Bend Over; Here It Comes Again ..
> >
>  >
 
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