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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / July 2009Calcium and PCa ?
I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent years I have snacked on frozen yogurt in an effort to keep my weight down. Low calories but high calcium. Any thoughts about the evils of calcium ? "...1998 Harvard School of Public Health study of 47,781 men found those consuming between 1,500 and 1,999 mg of calcium per day had about double the risk of being diagnosed with metastatic (cancer that has spread to other parts of the body) prostate cancer as those getting 500 mg per day or less. And those taking in 2,000 mg or more had over four times the risk of developing metastatic prostate cancer as those taking in less than 500 mg...." http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm Hi, Jim! What's it been, four years? Were you ever diagnosed? : I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling : to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] : : http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm >Hi, Jim! What's it been, four years? Were you ever diagnosed? Yep, Steve. Four years. I wish I could say I was happy to be back :-) But seriously, I am glad to be able to come to where I can get some sensible answers to serious questions. From people who know what they are talking about. Glad to see you are still doing well. Back in 2005 I was finally diagnosed as having BPH. Everything stayed pretty much as it was until this year when a nodule turned up on my prostate. I see the uro next week. : Back in 2005 I was finally diagnosed as having BPH. Everything : stayed pretty much as it was until this year when a nodule turned up : on my prostate. I see the uro next week. Damn!  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09 Illegitimati non carborundum > I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling > to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm I think the best thing to do is to search Pubmed for cancer and calcium to see what you can find. Be astute here. An association between A and B, even if you find it, doesn't prove that A causes B. It could be that B causes A, or that some third factor C causes both A and B. I must say that there are many red flags in the web page that you have cited, including the sensationalist and manipulative domain name "deathbyvaccination.com". Who knows how many people have died, not because they were vaccinated, but because they didn't get vaccinated due to the scare tactics of the quacks. The first paragraph begins with the ridiculous statement that: "There is a power and a force in magnesium that cannot be equaled anywhere else in the world of medicine. There is no substitute for magnesium in human physiology; nothing comes even close to it in terms of its effect on overall cell physiology." It's ridiculous because there are numerous essential elements that the body cannot live without. Magnesium has no "power" or "force". It's true that we can't live without it. But we also can't live without iron, sulfur, calcium, sodium, potassium, and many other elements. We'd die if we were deprived of any one of them. My sense is that "Mark Sircus Ac., OMD" is a bullshit artist who searches Pubmed for alarming looking articles that he can spin into scary stories in order to convince people that they are at great risk of death if they don't seek treatment from him. You will note that he is not a doctor and not a scientist. He has studied "acupuncture and oriental medicine" at "the Institute of Traditional Medicine" and has the "honorary title of doctor of oriental medicine" awarded to him by a hospital in Mexico. See: http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/4948. I don't know if the guy is a quack or just a sincere kook. Maybe I'm being unfair to him but, based on what I read on his web pages, it's real hard for me to take anything he says seriously. Alan > ... > I don't know if the guy is a quack or just a sincere kook. Maybe > I'm being unfair to him but, based on what I read on his web > pages, it's real hard for me to take anything he says seriously. I could go on and on about this guy. For example, what in the world is a guy with no medical degree at all doing running a "Sanctuary Cancer Clinic"? Look at: http://www.loveforlife.com.au/node/4962 Then click "Costs". For only $1,200 per month you can visit his "virtual online clinic" and talk to him personally. Though if your talk goes outside the agreed upon limits of the online clinic, it will set you back $360/hour. I think I have established that he is not a sincere kook. He's an out and out quack, and one with outrageous fees to boot. If I were on the street with him and water fell on me and he told me it was raining, I think I would stop two other people and ask them if they thought it was raining before I'd believe it. [That's not original with me, I got it from a movie about a lying reporter whose editor fires him and says that about him.] Alan Not to dispute any of your judgements about this guy, Alan, but I do believe Calcium and PCa is a valid issue. There was some discussion about it on this forum a number of years ago. It caused me to to be careful about my calcium intake, especially with supplements. I even think twice when I take Tums, which is mainly calcium carbonate. If anyone has any recent reliable information about it, I would appreciate reading it. Claude >> ... >> I don't know if the guy is a quack or just a sincere kook. Maybe [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Alan : Not to dispute any of your judgements about this guy, Alan, but I do : believe Calcium and PCa is a valid issue. There was some discussion about : it on this forum a number of years ago. It caused me to to be careful about : my calcium intake, especially with supplements. I even think twice when I : take Tums, which is mainly calcium carbonate. If anyone has any recent : reliable information about it, I would appreciate reading it. 'Tis true. There seems to be a connection. But, I think that no one yet has found proof of it. Nor do they know which came first... or whether it is even harmful. As a matter of fact, there -does- seem to be information leading experts to believe that sufficient calcium is necessary for sufficient bone growth to fight off PCa at that level. But, again, no one respectable (other than the FDA, I guess) will say how much that is. And it may be different for all of us. I hope that clears things up. ;-) SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA undetectable since; last checked on 06/04/09 Illegitimati non carborundum > > I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling > > to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > Alan To be honest, I didn't even read the article. It was that authoritative Harvard report that shocked me. I then found it on several other sites. I had originally googled ("prostate cancer" + magnesium) out of curiosity. I wasn't expecting anything on calcium. I would think that if there were anything at all to it, doctors should warn us older men to slow down on calcium. > I would think that if there were anything at all to it, doctors > should warn us older men to slow down on calcium. My uro onc has, and advised me to. I.P. > I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling > to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm Not very good. Try http://www.dartmouth.edu/~vox/0304/0112/nutrients.html "further investigation is needed to understand the mechanistic basis of the vitamin D/calcium interaction and to clarify the amount of intake of each nutrient required." >> http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm >Not very good. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the vitamin D/calcium interaction and to clarify the amount of intake of >each nutrient required." This is the part that disturbed me. > about double the risk of being diagnosed with metastatic (cancer that > has spread to other parts of the body) prostate cancer It doesn't say that calcium causes prostate cancer, but it does indicate that if you have PCa, calcium will cause it to spread a lot faster. Jim, my Medical Oncologist tells me to drink milk everyday and have a bowl of Blue Bell (ice cream) twice a week..... Why? Calcium is needed to build and maintain bones and teeth, clot blood, and regulate the heart's rhythm. Ninety-nine percent of the calcium in the human body is stored in the bones and teeth. The body gets calcium it needs in two ways. One is by eating foods that contain calcium, or by taking calcium supplements. The other is by pulling calcium from bones. Osteoporosis is the weakening of bones caused by an imbalance between bone building and bone destruction. Preventing osteoporosis depends on two things: making the strongest, densest bones possible and limiting the amount of bone loss. One way to help is to consume enough calcium to reduce the amount the body has to borrow from bone. Anyone on hormone therapy should be concerned about the possibility of osteoporisis. Don't fret. There are more important issues in life. Gourd Dancer > I ran across a troubling statistic recently. Especially troubling > to someone waiting to see a uro about a possible biopsy. In recent [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm Interesting read from Prostate Cancer International relevant to this thread: http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/02/24/calcium-intake-health-and-prostate- cancer/ GD > Jim, my Medical Oncologist tells me to drink milk everyday and have a bowl > of Blue Bell (ice cream) twice a week..... Why? [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >> >> http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm >Interesting read from Prostate Cancer International relevant to this thread: > >http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/02/24/calcium-intake-health-and-prostate- cancer/ > >GD Thanks, GD. That is a little more comforting. Especially as one who has been consuming about 1200 mg of calcium a day. MY worry was simple. As we grow older men are more prone to PCa. I looked at the labels and most of the processed things I eat has calcium added. That would seem to be awful stupid if it did promote the spread of ca. in older men. > MY worry was simple. As we grow older men are more prone to PCa. I > looked at the labels and most of the processed things I eat has > calcium added. That would seem to be awful stupid if it did > promote the spread of ca. in older men. The government required cereal makers to add folic acid to cereals. We're told to eat lots of whole grains, which many of us take in the form of cereal. I ate half a box of cereal most days for decades. Result, for many of us, is many times the RDA of folate, which is now blamed for colon cancer. I got colon cancer, which would have killed me unless my PC tests hadn't caught it early. Cause? Effect? Who knows? The government meddles too damned much. I.P. : The government meddles too damned much. I'm not sure of the propriety of it's discussion here, but truer words were never said. > : The government meddles too damned much. > > I'm not sure of the propriety of it's discussion here, but truer words were > never said. If it persuades even one person born with a prostate to read a lot about and speak out on any issues regarding same, I'd say it's appropriate as long as it sticks to prostate health and the prevention, awareness, detection, treatment, workarounds, continued observance, and end stage amelioration thereof. The government FAR oversteps its constitutional 10th Amendment's hard limits already, and anyone who thinks Pelosicare will take good care of men our age is kidding himself and his family. I.P. > Interesting read from Prostate Cancer International relevant to this > thread: > > http://prostatecancerinfolink.net/2009/02/24/calcium-intake-health-and-prostate- cancer/ It is amazing to me how often studies contradict each other regarding this or that risk factor for cancer or other diseases. ... >> ... Ninety-nine percent of the calcium in >> the human body is stored in the bones and teeth. >> >> The body gets calcium it needs in two ways. One is by eating foods >> that contain calcium, or by taking calcium supplements. The other is >> by pulling calcium from bones. Thinking about this, one wonders whether people with metatstatic cancer in the bones have higher rates of calcium circulating in the blood, not because they're eating more, but because it is either not being absorbed in the bones, or is even being leached from them. If so, this would be a case of metastatic cancer causing high blood levels of calcium rather than the other way around. Furthermore, it is even possible that the body needs more calcium in these circumstances to replace calcium leached from bones. Of course this is all speculation. I don't know if anyone knows the real answers at this point. In this regard, I always find biological studies to be more convincing than statistical studies. If someone can show that there is a biochemical connection between A and B, that's more convincing than just a statistical association between A and B. But even biochemical evidence needs analysis and confirmation. As I.P. once said, this stuff is way more complicated than rocket science. Alan > Interesting read from Prostate Cancer International relevant to this thread: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > >>http://deathbyvaccination.com/magnesium.htm I also think that recent evidence suggests that Calcium intake doesn't increase the risk of prostate cancer. In any case, the initial study referred to suggested that calcium intake might increase the risk of getting prostate cancer in the first place. That study didn't address the question about whether or not calcium intake affected recurrence of prostate cancer which had been treated, which is a separate issue. I always wondered about the Harvard study. Presumably a significant part of the population of physicians were of Asian ancestry. Such men are first of all at lower risk of prostate cancer and also tend to be lactose intolerant so they don't drink much milk. That would provide a clear confounder. The study authors may have compensated for such an effect, or course, but it is an interesting point. Walsh, in his book, suggests that Calcium may increase the risk of prostate cancer by interfering with vitamin D metabolism. But he also raises the possibility that a diet rich in fructose can compensate for that, so it would seem that if you eat lots of yogurt with fruit, you may be fine. In any case, it does seem that more recent studies suggest that Calcium in the diet doesn't increase the risk of prostate cancer. That is good news for me because there does seem to be evidence that Calcium can decrease the risk of colon cancer, which I am at greater risk of because of family history, and also may help lower blood pressure, recently also a problem for me. Just for the record : if you are on Zometa, they advise to take 500 mg of calcium a day, combined with 400 IU of vitamine D. Kevin's medical oncologist told him to start taking calcium & vit. D right away. Once his mouth heals from the dental surgery, 3 to 6 months, he should be starting Zometa. I wasn't sure if he would be continuing the Calcium and Vit D or not. thanks, sue > Just for the record : if you are on Zometa, they advise to take 500 mg of > calcium a day, combined with 400 IU of vitamine D. > Kevin's medical oncologist told him to start taking calcium & vit. D right > away. Once his mouth heals from the dental surgery, 3 to 6 months, he [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> Just for the record : if you are on Zometa, they advise to take 500 mg of >> calcium a day, combined with 400 IU of vitamine D. Someone more knowledgeable in human bio-chem would be able to explain this much better, but I do know that Vitamin D is necessary for absorption and/or utilization of calcium. I also know that there have been studies indicating that Vitamin D supplementation is helpful in counteracting PCa. Could it be that it is calcium without sufficient Vitamin D that might be the problem? Perhaps Ed Friedman could help us here. |
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