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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2009Quick SRT Update
Hi all, I'm home again for the weekend. Just wanted to give you all a quick update. 12 treatments down and 26 to go. So far only SE's are upset stomach, diarrhea and tiredness. I still think the gastro problems are due to the VA hospital food. Vince > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Vince I had no upset stomach or diarrhea at all, but then I didn't eat at the VA :) Alan >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I had no upset stomach or diarrhea at all, but then I didn't > eat at the VA :) Kevin had an upset stomach and diarrhea during his IMRT treatments and for awhile afterwards. The R.O. nurse gave him a diet to follow and it helped. After he was done with his treatments, he was able to add foods back in a little at a time. Vince, no matter the reason for these problems, you might want to pick up some apple sauce(in individual containers) and bananas, both should help settle your stomach. If you want more details on the diet Kevin had to follow, let me know and I will look it up. sue >Kevin had an upset stomach and diarrhea during his IMRT treatments and >for awhile afterwards. The R.O. nurse gave him a diet to follow and it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >help settle your stomach. If you want more details on the diet Kevin had >to follow, let me know and I will look it up. Sue-- I'll be starting IMRT in a few weeks, so anything you would care to share I would be happy to receive. Be prepared is my motto. TIA starrin > I'll be starting IMRT in a few weeks, so anything you would care to > share I would be happy to receive. Be prepared is my motto. > TIA > starrin 1. Sleep one hour more each night (I slept 9) 2. Drink gallons of water. It will hydrate your good tissue and better haul off the dead tissue. 3. Walk daily or close to daily (I walked 3-5 miles 3-5 days a week). It helps move the dead cells around the body to the waste disposal systems. Some studies might indicate this also gets your immune system up and running for attacking prostate cancer cells. >> Kevin had an upset stomach and diarrhea during his IMRT treatments and >> for awhile afterwards. The R.O. nurse gave him a diet to follow and it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I'll be starting IMRT in a few weeks, so anything you would care to > share I would be happy to receive. Be prepared is my motto. I think the most important thing is a positive attitude which Kevin had, be sure to get lots of rest and drink lots of fluids. Kevin worked full time during his 44 sessions and the last couple of weeks he was very fatigued so I picked him up and did the driving for him. In addition the fatigue and diarrhea he also had some urinary problems. Keep in mind that you may or may not have the same issues as Kevin or anyone else here. If you do start having any problems, be sure to check with your R.O. or the R.O. nurse. Good Luck!! sue > Kevin worked full time during his 44 sessions and the last couple of weeks > he was very fatigued so I picked him up and did the driving for him. Not to contradict Sue, but to show your mileage may vary... My treatments were usually at 9:15 a.m. or so. I left work 20 minutes before, got on the table when called and usually left 20 minutes after the beginning of the treatments. I went back to work and completed the days without any problem. My job was about half behind a desk and half in the field.  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA undetectable since, < 0.04 on 10/09/08 Illegitimati non carborundum >> Kevin worked full time during his 44 sessions and the last couple of weeks >> he was very fatigued so I picked him up and did the driving for him. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > without any problem. My job was about half behind a desk and half in the > field. No problem at all Steve!! I believe Kevin got so fatigued because ADT made his migranes more frequent and that kept him from starting an exercise program. I wonder if your going in the morning made it easier, Kevin's appointment was at 4pm at the end of a long day. sue > I believe Kevin got so fatigued because ADT made his migranes more > frequent and that kept him from starting an exercise program. > > I wonder if your going in the morning made it easier, Kevin's appointment > was at 4pm at the end of a long day. Who knows what differences lurk in human bodies. I was 48 and Kevin was 66. That might be a big one right there. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA undetectable since, < 0.04 on 10/09/08 Illegitimati non carborundum >>> Hi all, >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > sue Hi Sue, I'm home again for the weekend. 17 treatments completed now of 38 total. I still have the upset stomach, gas and diarrhea. It seems to get worse towards the end of the week. Thursday and Friday. I'll try your suggestion of apple sauce and bananas. I'd appreciate any info you can scrounge up on Kevin's diet during his treatment. I am a Type 2 Diabetic also. Vince >>>> Hi all, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Vince I forgot to add that I had constipation last Sunday through Tuesday. I see my RO on Mondays after my treatment. She prescribed one daily dose of Metamucil before bed at night to try to help regulate my bowel. Vince She prescribed one daily dose > of Metamucil before bed at night to try to help regulate my bowel. I've fought constipation, sometimes very severe, for 40 years. As long as I keep my fiber up, as in 40-60 gms a day of fiber, I do pretty well. I was thus quite surprised when my colon surgeon put me on a low-fiber diet during recovery from donating half my colon to the cause, and said, "You can go home after your first good bowel movement." Considering that I was in a medieval dungeon of a recovery ward, that scared the heck out of me. Unfortunately, however, it didn't scare the $#!+ out of me, so I asked the doc for some fiber, or at least some prune juice and fruit and veggies. He balked, so I asked him to consult a dietitian and get back to me. I had my prune juice and some fruit within hours, and they took me off the fiber-free meal list. I didn't go wild on fiber or food in general, but did add some fiber and lots of prune juice ... and not just at night. I make sure every meal includes some fiber, plus some metamucil. I.P. >> Hi Sue, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > see my RO on Mondays after my treatment. She prescribed one daily dose > of Metamucil before bed at night to try to help regulate my bowel. Interesting, maybe your stomach issues were not from your radiation treatments? Kevin's issues got worse day by day. Maybe you won't need the diet stuff I just posted. sue > Hi Sue, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > can scrounge up on Kevin's diet during his treatment. I am a Type 2 > Diabetic also. Kevin is also a Type 2 diabetic. It was hard finding a variety of foods he could eat, esp snack food, but we managed. Bananas helped settle his stomach and low carb/sugar yogurt also helped, but I don't know if you have a fridge available for the yogurt. OK, here is the dietary information we got from the R.O. nurse, I copied as much as made sense. If you have an questions let me know. The first thing to know is that each person is different and what will cause problems for you may be ok for someone else. Kevin was given the diet ahead of time, but told not to start it unless he developed problems. Since he has IBS he developed problems very quickly. I am going to put in notes for a diabetic who this is so much harder for. Proteins - no fatty meats, fibrous meats with gristle, cold cuts, hot dogs, sausage,bacon, nuts, seeds. Chunky peanut butter is not allowed, but smooth is. Bread, cereals - No whole grain breads, whole wheat, none with seeds or dried fruit skins or nuts. No oatmeal or other whole grain cereals such as Cheerios, shredded wheat etc. No brown or wild rice or whole grain pasta. Allowed bread, cereals -was white bread, Vienna, French or light rye bread or bagels. Also allowed are corn and English muffins, plain crackers, cream of wheat or rice etc. Dry cereals allowed are cornflakes, rice krispies, life, product 19, cinnamon toast crunch, team, puffed rice or special K. Also allowed are white rice, noodles, pasta. (as you can see this is no good for a diabetic who can't have while flour, white rice and none of the allowed breads. Kevin spoke with the nurse and she said he could have "whole wheat" bread as long as it "only" had wheat, no other grains. We did find a light rye bread that he did ok with in addition to the wheat only bread he was allowed). Vegetables - No raw vegetables, avocado, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussel sprouts, onions, corn and no tomato products at all. Allowed is most cooked or canned vegetables. Fruits - Not allowed are all raw fruits except banana, no citrus juices or dried fruits. Allowed fruits are bananas, cooked or canned without skinsor seeds and fruit juice with no pulp except still no citrus. (Bananas are normally too high in sugar for a diabetic, but since they settled Kevin's stomach he ate them and the family doctor said if he had a problem with his blood sugar, he would adjust him diabetes meds. There are one or two fruits we found in snack packs that had no sugar added.) Desserts - Nothing made with nuts, coconut or chocolate. Allowed is angel food cake, vanilla wafers, plain pudding or custards. Pretzels are ok. (we found some sugar free cookies and jello that are fine for a diabetic. Also some sugar free ice pops) Fats - nothing fried, no poultry skin or olives. Allowed sparingly is butter, sour cream, mayo, oil etc. Beverages - NO coffee or tea with caffeine and no alcohol or hot chocolate. Kevin had his large mug of regular coffee in the morning, but no more caffeine for the day. Condiments - Allowed are herbs, salt, vinegar, soy sauce, honey and jelly. Not allowed is anything spicy, no pickles, olives, jam, preserves, popcorn or potato chips. sue >> Hi Sue, >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > OK, here is the dietary information we got from the R.O. nurse Wow. I've been studying diet and diets for decades, with respect to constipation, IBS, nutrition, Type II diabetes, weight management, and sports nutrition. I'm still no expert, but two very experienced professional dietitians and several sports and eating disorder nutrition trainers have praised my own dietary programs and the nutritional advice I've put before the public without dispute. I hate it when a pro such as this R.O. nurse disagrees 80% with everything I've read and been told, because it means a) I'm wrong, b) a bunch of people are getting bad advice, or c) both. I.P. >>> Hi Sue, >>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > because it means a) I'm wrong, b) a bunch of people are getting bad > advice, or c) both. Then why not post where you differ instead of just saying you disagree? It might even help other posters/lurkers seeing different views. sue I even hate to weigh in on this topic as even experts are unsure. When I took radiation treatments, first with seeds and second with IMRT, my RO, who teaches at a major medical school told me to curtail use of all anti-oxidants - why? Antioxidant supplementation during radiation therapy poses a conundrum for the radiation oncologist, as antioxidants that protect normal cells from reactive oxygen species may provide the same benefits to cancer cells and reduce the efficacy of treatment. A nutrionist will tell you to take all the anti-oxidants you can because it rebuilds cell structure. Listen to who you want. Good? Bad? Who really knows? Gourd Dancer >>>> Hi Sue, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > sue e >> I hate >> it when a pro such as this R.O. nurse disagrees 80% with everything [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Then why not post where you differ instead of just saying you disagree? > It might even help other posters/lurkers seeing different views. I have and do, often, and hate to belabor it. I.P. >> Hi Sue, >> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > sue As a follow up, I'm in a VA hospital during the week while I'm getting my treatments. I'm dependent on them for my food. They know I'm a Type 2 diabetic, but the food I get is still a joke. I had pasta three nights out of 4 last week and the other night was turkey, stuffing, gravy and sweet potatoes. I've complained several times about the food, but it is falling on deaf ears. All the food is high starch/high carb. What ever will fill you up and is cheap is what they feed us. All masked with lots of gravy, sauces or melted cheese. I take as much from home as I can, but don't have access to a fridge, so what I can take and store is limited. Vince > I take as much from home as I can, but don't have access to a fridge, so > what I can take and store is limited. I brought in my own fan, and don't know why they would object to your bringing in a little tabletop refrigerator. And what about non- or slow-perishables such as canned goods, bread, fruit, etc.? Our recovery ward had a community fridge. In addition, high-glycemic-index meals can be moderated by low-glycemic foods. Protein, healthy fats, and fiber all slow down digestion and thus can drop a meal's glycemic index very significantly to accommodate Type II needs. Eaten with beans, whole grain breads and cereals, nuts in any form from peanut butter to a small handful (very low glycemic index, but watch the calories/quantity), almost all fruits and vegetables, etc., even a piece of coconut cream pie is acceptable. Most kinds of pasta, if not overcooked, have a low glycemic index, as does that healthy, even for Type II diabetics, sweet potato. While Type IIs are better off minimizing high glyemic index foods just because it gives them more room for error, they're usually quite acceptable as long as each high-glycemic-index food is eaten with a comparable quantity of low glycemic index foods. The key is glycemic index values; even the experts are very often significantly surprised at the results of GI testing, so we laymen are no judge at all; we must use tables, not guesswork. The tables cover many hundreds of foods in many forms. I've read extensively from many books on Type II diabetes and studied several more cover to cover, and I slept at a Holiday Inn last night for good measure. So far my most convincing, thorough, and practical sources have been the dozen+ books on the glycemic index and glucose revolution by Dr. Jennie Brand-Miller, Australia's leading expert in the field. They've been around for years and she keeps writing more, so they're readily available new or used or discounted. Read 'em and eat. And if anyone finds any evidence that Brand-Miller is wrong, please post it so I quit relying on her. I.P. > As a follow up, I'm in a VA hospital during the week while I'm getting my > treatments. I'm dependent on them for my food. They know I'm a Type 2 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I take as much from home as I can, but don't have access to a fridge, so > what I can take and store is limited. Kevin had his bladder stone removed a couple of weeks ago and they kept him in the hospital overnight. The first meal they brought him was mac & cheese and said it was ok for a diabetic. We both spoke with the dietitian, but she just didn't understand. Fortunetly Kevin was only there overnight, if it had been longer I would of been bringing him food from home or a local restaurant. Good luck to you!! sue > The first meal they brought him was mac & > cheese and said it was ok for a diabetic. We both spoke with the > dietitian, but she just didn't understand. I don't understand ... the dietitian ... either. She should have at least explained that ordinary mac & cheese has only a moderate glycemic index, and thus may be OK for Type II diabetics, especially if accompanied by an even lower GI food. She should have taken it a step further by using (and explaining same) a low-glycemic pasta (most pasta is low in GI) and cooking it al dente (to preserve its inherent low GI). She should then have added that cheese is perfectly alright for Type II diabetics because it has no carbs, therefore has no impact on blood sugar, therefore its GI is zero. But if she truly didn't understand, she is not a dietitian, she just plays one on TV. I.P. >> The first meal they brought him was mac & cheese and said it was ok >> for a diabetic. We both spoke with the dietitian, but she just didn't [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > diabetics because it has no carbs, therefore has no impact on blood > sugar, therefore its GI is zero. She did explain how they balanced the meal for a diabetic. What she didn't understand is that for some diabetics, no matter how you balance carbs/glycemic index etc, they still can't eat white flour etc. We had this discussion in that past, so that it is for me for now. sue > What she > didn't understand is that for some diabetics, no matter how you balance > carbs/glycemic index etc, they still can't eat white flour etc. We had > this discussion in that past That's why I hadn't repeated it. But, at least in the U.S., pastas are not white flour (which is basically sugar by the time it hits our stomach) but duram wheat. I.P. >> What she didn't understand is that for some diabetics, no matter how >> you balance carbs/glycemic index etc, they still can't eat white flour >> etc. We had this discussion in that past > > That's why I hadn't repeated it. But then you decided to repeat it anyway. But, at least in the U.S., pastas are > not white flour (which is basically sugar by the time it hits our > stomach) but duram wheat. What ever it is made of, it spikes Kevin b.s. and he also has problems with whole wheat flour. sue >>> What she didn't understand is that for some diabetics, no matter how >>> you balance carbs/glycemic index etc, they still can't eat white [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > But then you decided to repeat it anyway. Yes, because I don't remember everything *I've* said, let alone what others have said about their own unique situations. The RO nurse was correct, it seems, for the usual Type II patient and for normal pasta, because it's not based on the white flour that bothers Kevin. Maybe he has has complications beyond garden variety Type II diabetes. I.P. >> Hi all, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alan Prior to RT, I had a constipation issue and hemorrhoids so was taking Metamucil. During RT, I started having diarrhea, so I discontinued the Metamucil and the diarrhea got better (not cured). After RT, the diarrhea and hemorrhoids resolved themselves and I have used Metamucil since. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA <.1 <.1 <.1 .27 .37 .75 PSAD 0.19 years EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSAD .056 years Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 and every 4 months there after PSA .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 .145 PSAD 1.4 years Casodex added daily 07/06 PSA undetectable since, < 0.04 on 10/09/08 Illegitimati non carborundum That was supposed to read "have NOT used Metamucil since." > Prior to RT, I had a constipation issue and hemorrhoids so was taking > Metamucil. During RT, I started having diarrhea, so I discontinued the > Metamucil and the diarrhea got better (not cured). After RT, the diarrhea > and hemorrhoids resolved themselves and I have used Metamucil since. Steve K wrote: > Some studies might indicate this also gets your immune system > up and running for attacking prostate cancer cells. I wonder how that would work for someone with an autoimmune disease, where the immune system is running wild and attacking healthy cells. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Vince Thanks for your comments and suggestions everybody. I'm getting ready to head back to the VA hospital for the week. Vince |
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