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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / January 2004Question - small cell cancer (or anaplastic carcinoma)
Hi folks, Has this type of cancer ever been discussed here? I was researching small cell cancer (for someone else) and ran across the following. (rare apparently, but I wonder if some don't get properly diagnosed and/or treated for same. Seems to respond to standard chemos vs hormone therapies? <http://www.radinfonet.com/cme/krinsky2/krinsky2_04.htm> Yet this is a variant of prostatic carcinoma known as small-cell or anaplastic carcinoma of the prostate. Figure 47 presents another example of small-cell carcinoma of the prostate. Although this disease has been in oncology literature for some time, it was only introduced to radiology literature in 1998, when Larry Schwartz published a paper on small-cell carcinoma of the prostate in Radiology. Unfortunately, small-cell carcinoma of the prostate has a very poor prognosis. Patients with this disease may have carcinomatosis and visceral metastasis. And, as the tumor does not secrete PSA, 60% of these patients will have normal PSA and will therefore not respond to the typical antiandrogen therapy or orchiectomy. They will, however, respond to platinum-based chemotherapy. In a way, small-cell carcinoma can be considered oat cell carcinoma of the prostate. In other parts of the body, such as the pancreas, small-cell or neuroendocrine features portend a better prognosis. In small-cell carcinoma of the prostate and of the colon however, these features mean a much worse prognosis. Small-cell carcinoma of the prostate is not common, but it does constitute 2% to 3% of all prostate cancers. In cases where a patient has typical bone metastasis, liver masses, and peritoneal carcinomatosis, an enlarged prostate may indicate small cell (anaplastic) carcinoma of the prostate.[] For what it's worth..and FYI J hi j - i don't know if it has been discussed but i have ran across the topic on several occasions. i guess now is the time to make people aware of just how dangerous the very aggressive cancers can be. the problem is that we depend and talk so much about the psa numbers and this is the same focus point that the anti-psa people use as their argument. the main focus of this post should be this and everyone should burn this into their mind............... .....as the prostate cell becomes more transformed into a disease cell and destroyed by the pca, the pca not only changes the cell's structure but also it's psa making function. this is why the very aggressive cancers can do so much damage before they are found. there is little psa made this pca and by the time other symptoms have alerted the patient that something is wrong, there's a good chance that it has spread to other parts of the body. this point is a very good reason for the lowering of the psa levels in younger men, because it may caught the more aggressive cancer because the psa level may not rise pass the standard of 4 until it is well developed. you are right, it isn't discussed very much. i think you posted a very important point. who knows? maybe you may a saved someone who is reading this and decided to take a more aggressive approach in their health care. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional > hi j - i don't know if it has been discussed but i have ran across the > topic on several occasions. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > who knows? maybe you may a saved someone who is reading this and > decided to take a more aggressive approach in their health care. What would that be? "more aggressive approach" Your theory seems to be transformation. I just found out that he had prostate cancer 5 years ago. I assume it was treated hormonally but don't have more info as to whether any radiation or surgery was done. They thought he was cured. So now I have to wonder if it wasn't diagnosed properly to begin with and treated properly to begin with, since now they're being told it's colorectal metascized to the liver, whereas small cell cancer usually starts in the lung. (yet they've not mentioned lung at all ..yet) J >Subject: Re: Question - small cell cancer (or anaplastic carcinoma) >From: J ItemIzer@example.com [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >lung. (yet they've not mentioned lung at all ..yet) >J ? Is that colorectal cancer or prostate cancer? If it is colorectal cancer, then its mets are all colorectal cancer, no matter where they are. If it is prostate cancer, then its mets are all prostate cancer, no matter where they are, and continue to be called prostate cancer. Hormone treatment is something like Lupron, injected every month or every three months for the remainder of the patients life. It works by telling the pituitary gland that there is plenty of testosterone in the blood, so the pituitary in turn tells the testicles to stop making testosterone. Ordinary prostate cells do not replicate if they can't gather testosterone from their surroundings, but they don't die of the lack. PSA does not destroy prostate cells- prostate cells make PSA. Hormone treatment for prostate cancer ALWAYS fails, eventually- on average, after a mean time of three or four years. Intermittent hormone treatment increases survival time a bit, it seems. > Is that colorectal cancer or prostate cancer? If it is colorectal cancer, > then its mets are all colorectal cancer, no matter where they are. If it is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > average, after a mean time of three or four years. Intermittent hormone > treatment increases survival time a bit, it seems. She told the "inbetween person" that he had recently had a prostate and medical checkup and that he'd been given the all clear, after having prostate cancer 5 years ago. And then he gets the following diagnosis (I don't know the exact timeline). She posted that it's CRC colorectal and the small cell cancer type...(with mets to the liver) colorectal is usually adenocarcinoma http://www.sma.org/smj/96sept16.htm He's receiving http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=4002 cisplatin (platinum based) one day all day http://www.cancerhelp.org.uk/help/default.asp?page=4102 VP16 Etoposide day 2 and 3 then restart 2 weeks later. that combo of treatments is listed for SCLC small cell lung cancer http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancer_information/cancer_type/lung/ (professional version) Which could be meaningless, perhaps it's a combo that used for any metastasis... (she may be confused because she's very upset and ill herself with some serious health problems) Thanks for the other info. I did not know that. J hi danny - addressing the mets issue..... i've heard so many different tales about this disease causing that disease. take for example, lung cancer. if it spreads, it is lung cancer of that organ. but if someone has breast cancer and mets to the lung, i've heard people say that they've got lung cancer too - as if it is a different type of cancer, when it really is breast cancer in the lung. same for prostate cancer - prostate cancer in the lung. you are right if it is prostate cancer and it mets, then it's still prostate cancer, but a lot people don't recognize it as a secondary cancer. addressing j's comment....... treating an aggressive prostate cancer is vital to the patient's life. each day it goes unchecked, it just chews up the insides that much more. and as it has been pointed out before, you have to kill it......either by surgery, or radiation. the time frame from the time it is discovered and when something is done is what i was referring to as aggressive treatment.......not aggressive treatment as in treating it with chemo or something like that. which leads me to address the hormone treatment. danny, i agree with everything you said, with the exception of that hormone treatment always fails. it does what it is intended to do, extend the length and quality of life. it is not a cure nor has it ever been known to be a cure. yes, it becomes ineffective over the time frame you said, but look what it gave to the patient in terms of precious time. that is all the hormone treatment can do. they are starting to use it with other treatments and have found it to be effective by weakening the pca for radiation or surgery. you know what you are talking about as far as knowledge. and i wonder if you would agree that the term 'hormone treatment' is used in error in general conversation. when one thinks of a treatment, one thinks in terms of a cure. if one were to think of hormone as a way of extending life such as dialysis. dialysis doesn't cure, but dialysis is a treatment, so i guess one could say that dialysis will ALWAYS FAIL. and that would be a true statement because it did not cure the original problem, no more than hormone treatment cured prostate cancer. but dialysis and hormone treatments do extend the life of the patient as well as the quality of life of the patient and science is providing the cure so that dialysis doesn't have to be used. i believe that hormone treatment will be used in the same fashion. i just hope it is soon. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional >Subject: Re: Question - small cell cancer (or anaplastic carcinoma) >From: PALMER_ENT@webtv.net (c palmer) [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >~ curtis True. Otherwise we wouldn't use it at all. I get my third lupron injection next week.. But I think I had an "eventually" in there somewhere... My sister has anaplastic thyroid cancer and it is deadly. She was Dx'd 18 months ago and now has 2 to 6 weeks to live. Makes my prostate cancer seem like a cake walk. Shorty > My sister has anaplastic thyroid cancer and it is deadly. She was Dx'd 18 > months ago and now has 2 to 6 weeks to live. > Makes my prostate cancer seem like a cake walk. I am terribly sorry about your sister, Shorty. I worry a lot about my brother, he lives far away and isn't getting good healthcare and blows me off when I ask him to get his prostate and colon checked. Both run in our family on the male side. I'll be thinking of you, your sister and family. J (going back to alt.support.cancer, I think) hi shorty - i'm sorry to hear about your sister. it's news like this that shocks us into how small some of our problems really are. i don't know how many different types of thyroid cancers are there. the reason i'm asking is because i have a friend, who is deaf, found out she had thyroid cancer and they took out only one side of the thyroid. then, about a year later, they told her the other side has cancer and took it out. it's been about five years now and she signed to me that she's got cancer again, but there is nothing there. she does not understand how or why they did what they did to her. and i don't either. and she's just 45. your sister is in my prayers. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional I believe there are about e kinds of thyroid cancer, 2 of which are curable. The other, anaplastic is "very rare" but deadly. Most patients don't survive 6 months after DX'd , however my Sister has 18 months. Shorty > i don't know how many different types of thyroid cancers are there. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > understand how or why they did what they did to her. and i don't > either. and she's just 45. There are 4 according to this (including anaplastic) http://www.endocrineweb.com/thyroidca.html Like any cancer it can spread through the lymph nodes and/or perhaps some thryoid tissue was inadvertently left behind. I'm not sure I understand 2nd part of your post, but the explanations are probably that web site. are you referring to a recurrence of thyroid cancer? I do believe Steph (rad onc) said that often radiation therapy is prudent after surgery to try and "kill" any perhaps bit of tissue and cancer left behind. best wishes to your friend J Geez, Hank. I'm really sorry to hear that. You two were dx'd within months of each other. She's terminal and, so far as you know, you're cured. It's gotta be rough. My prayers are with you. > My sister has anaplastic thyroid cancer and it is deadly. She was Dx'd 18 > months ago and now has 2 to 6 weeks to live. > Makes my prostate cancer seem like a cake walk. > > Shorty |
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